Fallout 2 mod Megamod version 2.47 Bug Reports and Suggestions

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by MIB88, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Muttie

    Muttie It Wandered In From the Wastes

    191
    Oct 9, 2017
    You forget to mention that there are also physical differences among men. And that most males can't compete with those athletes at the Olympics either. Nor will they ever be able to. :)
    In fact, it is often overlooked that males can have a „Small Frame“. It is true that there is an overall tendency for the male body to be build stronger (bones & muscle mass), that women can't fully compensate, but that fact is not exclusively male/female. People vary. The only true difference between men & women is the menstruation. (Whatever that entails. Imo it's “inner-security” and “knowledge of one's purpose”, i.e. women know who & what they are by birth, men don't and have to find out. But it's speculation.)

    Doesn't it? They consider someone as inferior/incapable (1st trigger) on a matter of birth (2nd trigger), ergo: racism. Right? The fact that they exist in an artificial scenario that proves their point can be neglected. There is no reason why a women (or a physical weak man) can't beat the trial, other than the mod saying it is so and/or changing it to that fact.
    EDIT: Please note that I pulled Teskal's paragraph apart believing he made three separate points. In hindsight, it seems to be one argument, which I don't agree with, and I've added an Edit in my next post to that effect. However, note that the splitting of the paragraph can be construed as misrepresentation of one argument.
    EDIT II: And my point here is not very well made either (it's a bit twisted). And it should say “a strong woman compared to a weak male”.

    But they really should. In the original Cameron is very accepting of a character finding different ways, to pass the test. Changing that wilfully, makes no sense, as it contradicts a main game mechanic of Fallout (i.e. there are different ways to beat the game).
    And Cameron was a representation of that game mechanic. Fight, talk or steal (if I remember correctly).
    Why change that? In fact, I would even go further and say this change starts to contradict Fallout as a whole.

    The same logic should apply to the „chosen one“. (EDIT: well without the absolute)

    This is wrong, I remember distinctly female warriors (female models carrying spears) in the RP Mod. Not many but there were some.
    It may not have been there in the vanilla version (can't remember), but that is no prove that it can't exist. For one, the vanilla game never said a female can't be the chosen one. That fact (call it sexism) has only been added by a mod, too.
    Second, Fallout never made any differences between male and female (e.g. both are doing the same melee damage etc.). Mechanic wise women can be hunters in Fallout.
    After all, I can play a ST10 female character. Who then can't become a hunter, because there is a physical difference between men and women? The problem is, there isn't. Not in Fallout. A ST10 female is the same as a ST10 male.
    And forcing a contradiction of that fact into the game (like saying a female can't have ST10) is a poor game design decision, which really fulfils no purpose, and eventually removes more than it adds.
    And realism be damned. It's anyway a bad guideline for game design (i.e. you should want to create a fun game, not a realistic model of the world.)

    I think he mixed up the chosen one with the vault dweller.

    Anyway,
    I think this entire discussion keeps missing the point, for no other reason than getting triggered by the word sexism.

    That was never the problem. Even, Karadoc never complained about it. He is basically making the same point I do and that is “poor game design”.

    In fact, if asked, I would advice people to play a male character in MegaMod. That's what I did when realizing the female character is going down a specific road. There were also some dialogues that started to refer to her to as “he”. I really think that some of the writing didn't care to create a female option. Lack of interest. MegaMod (or at least parts of it) is written to be played as a male character. The female option is an afterthought.
    Is this a problem? No, but you can't ignore the point that people expect different from a Fallout game.

    I'm not even suggesting to change MegaMod. It's too big and at one point a project needs to be accepted as it is. Which means, play a male character, and then female, and then low IN, as new scenarios. I don't agree with this (as said it breaks a golden rule of Fallout), but it's not a crime either. But neither is being disappointed by the limitation for a female play-through.

    It really is just about having options, and character freedom.
    And the change to Arroyo removes some of it for no good reasons.

    And as I said, if you want this type of scenario, place it in an isolated village somewhere in the game. Not at the start of it when the player should only be defined as “the chosen one”.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  2. Oregano

    Oregano First time out of the vault

    2
    Jan 22, 2018
    No way, theres multiple differences between males and females, not only physical, but also mental.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

    But honestly, is making male and female play different really that big of an issue? Isn't Fallout all about having multiple gameplay possibilities? I don't know about you, but I like the idea of having to keep readapting every time I change my character's sex.

    I think its something that MegaMod should refine a little more, not get rid of it all together. For example, you can make female characters be generally weaker than man, even if both of then have the same ST stats, but females could be generally more agile than man, thus geting a bonus in AG even if both have igual stats. Is just an idea, but I think its interesting, not many games out there trie something like this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  3. teskal

    teskal First time out of the vault

    55
    Dec 26, 2015
    It also makes no sense to take my text apart and comment them only sentence by sentence or even worst half-sentence.
    I made it clear that a Chosen One must not be a Fighter (I mentioned Hunter)
    The Olympics were only an example. There are much more examples, not only in highend games, for example in schools.

    And, ok, it is sexism. To say 'woman have a V*gina and men have a p*nis is already sexism'. Not every form of sexism must be bad.

    The RP mod is not the vanilla game and in RP they used female tribe warriors, which you can meet in the wastes. But the vanilla game didn't had it in Arroyo itself. Everything else is speculation.

    No, I didn't mixed up the Vault Dweller with the Chosen One. Who will be the chosen one was not known from the beginning.


    Beside this, personally I think a woman should also be able to be a Hunter. I don't care how Klint and Cameron react. I even think the Chosen One should get both, Hunter and Shaman training. He need everything he could get. I find to be a hunter never interesting.

    But I do not see it as poor game design.

    I prefer and also would suggest to play in THIS game (and maybe even F1) a male. (Has the F1 Fallout Fix the option to have a lesbian relationship with Tandy? Or already in vanilla?)
    I do not like the options females have most of the time in F2.
    I just like the idea to spread the Chosen Ones DNA all over the wastes (just like Genghis Khan, ok, the CO as a nice guy, what GK may not have been). :-) I would love to see much more options for it.

    Edit: And what Oregano said...
     
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  4. Muttie

    Muttie It Wandered In From the Wastes

    191
    Oct 9, 2017
    I think this may start to get carried way beyond what is possible.
    Consequently I cut all replies much shorter than I'm comfortable with. If you feel it's abrupt and too short, that's the reason.

    I also feel your arguments did not spend enough time to read what I said. Which means I'll eventually end up at a disadvantage, as I can't argue any more.


    @Oregano
    In that article it says that boys can have female behavior.
    And consequently they are not “differences” but “tendencies”. The article says “generalized”.
    I never contested this. I even agreed with it.
    I only said that I was looking for gender characteristics that are not interchangeable (or generalized), but absolute. And that's the menstruation.

    Not having the option to become a hunter, does not help with multiple gameplay possibilities, it does the opposite. And I don't need the game from preventing me from becoming a hunter I can do that myself.
    And, I said that I like the idea of a unique male/female scenario a player needs to adapt to. But not on the expanse of character creation (well at least the fluff part). This scenario should come later in the game, when I can tackle or ignore it.

    I said specifically that MegaMod shouldn't change at all. But stay as it is.

    And of course you can create a game in which male/female are completely different. Which may be fun, but Fallout never did that, it treats male/female equal.
    And I consider it important to preserve a game's original characteristics and concepts.
    This does not really apply to mods, but as I said, I do not suggest MegaMod to change anyway.
    But, as I also said, it shouldn't surprise anyone if some Fallout fans don't like this change to the female option. Especially, as, it doesn't make total sense.


    @teskal
    Sorry about the sentences, I thought I was commenting on single points. As your text was structured mostly in single sentences. I only took the first paragraph apart, into, what I believed, single points. It was not an attempt to misinterpreted you willfully.

    You said: Klint & Cameron don't know better.
    I said: They should.
    At no point did I say that you got it wrong. I was talking about Cameron, he should know, just as you said, that the chosen one needs to be more than just a hunter.

    I only wanted to point out that differences between men and women are not as strict. Like not all men are strong. There are males with ST1 and males with ST10. It's not only a male/female difference.

    No that is not sexism. I never said that. Or tried to imply that. Saying that man and women are different is absolutely fine. As I said „sexism needs two triggers...one is to imply inferiority”. Calling women different, or pointing out a fact of their physiognomy is not implying inferiority.
    I thought you were talking about Klint & Cameron, and that their assumption does not qualify as sexism. However it may be that that sentence refereed to the earlier part talking about the Olympics. I'm sorry, but you could have phrased it better. It was not clear what “this” in “this has nothing to do with sexism” means, but logically it refereed to Klint & Cameron. I couldn't know that you meant your own point about the Olympics.
    EDIT: I think I eventually understood Teskal's point: He said that Klint & Cameron believe that men and women are different (which is not racist), and consequently the Hunters cannot fathom that a women (who is weaker) can do what their best male hunter can't (and this is, consequently, still not racist, but the consequence of a fact). (and then Teskal also said that he personally doesn't agree with it (as the chosen one needs to be more than just strong), but would not call their attitude racist.)
    I would say this conclusion, if I understand it correctly, is wrong. For the simple reason that the hunters would accept a ST1 male, but reject a ST10 female, and that fact makes their attitude racist.
    One should also acknowledge that it is true that men are stronger than women, but „being weaker“ does not automatically mean „too weak“. This assumption ignores, for example, individuals like Ronda Rousey (i.e. females with ST10) and preventing Rousey from becoming a hunter because she is a women can't be defined as anything else but racist, because the objection is to her birth, not her abilities.
    I think it is important to realize that „generalizations“ and „simplifications of reality“ can become a problem when they classify Ronda Rousey as “too weak to become a hunter”.
    EDIT II: This is no reason to change the hunters' attitude. There is nothing wrong designing them as racist, but I don't think the argument can be made that they are not racist in their attitude.
    EDIT III: I think this argument annoys people who work in physically challenging jobs, and feel pressured to accept weak women to start lifting heavy machinery they possibly can't handle. There point is not wrong, but they need to adjust a little in that regard that “too weak” can also apply to men (and I've known men who got send home, because they couldn't stand the physical strain), and that there are women who, if they do weight-lifting, can develop the physical abilities to handle heavy machinery. That's what I meant by saying that “weak/strong” can not be simply read as “male/female”. Those are tendencies, but there is also individuality. You need to judge people by their actual physique, not by their gender and what their physique should be.

    Yes, I said RP, but then I continued and said „that even the vanilla version does not prevent females from becoming the chosen one“. Which suggests that the original Arroyo tribe has no problem with it. Which, at least, suggests that they are not sexist. And I think this goes beyond speculation.

    Not you, he (which meant Karadoc) mixed those two up. Which means his point you reacted to was probably an error on his (Karadoc's) part.

    Well, it can be debated. But in my opinion the idea of changing Arroyo to a unique scenario for women, sounds cool at first, but the more you think about it sounds less and less good. And I do believe that people (at least some) who want to play a female character are turned off by it, as they are missing choice in their character creation. That's not a sign of good design.
    I still consider this rewrite as a rewrite by someone who doesn't want to play as a female character, or if, only as a second choice. Which is fair, but not everyone likes it that way. And I think Karadoc had a fair point, in regard to Fallout's history and traditional mechanics. Until it got killed in a “Snowflake” discussion.

    Fixt has a lesbian option for Tandi. Vanilla does for neither. FO1 simply wasn't as big in that regard as FO2 was going to be. And playing male/female in FO1 (or 2 to be honest) isn't much of a difference, but there is something to say for choice and liberty.
    What I liked about the female/male characters in FO1 & FO2 is that I can play them any way I want. The easter eggs of male/female play-throughs are just bonuses. And it's cool to have them, and the more the better, but eventually they are just bonuses, that need to be more “slipped in between”, so that the player can discover them.

    Also the options in FO2 (you mean sex right?) are actually fine. There's a wide range of them and you can do anything from “just doing it” to “kicking them in the balls”. Which was nice.
    The problem of the Arroyo rewrite is that you have “the bad options of FO2 (if you want to put it that way), and no choice.” so to speak. Which is kind of worse, and puts people off.
    Again it's not a big deal, a mod can be however it wants to be, but someone like Karadoc must be allowed to make that point, without the abuse he got.


    This got way too long. We have to stop meeting like this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  5. teskal

    teskal First time out of the vault

    55
    Dec 26, 2015
    Yeah, let stop it, and I didn't like some of the answers Karadoc got, too. Arguments are ok, but not just bullying.
     
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  6. lordexvar

    lordexvar First time out of the vault

    2
    Jan 26, 2018
    anytime i talk to who i can only assume is sulik's sister in that chainlink fenced off indoors pen after you get the key, it crashes saying failed to retrieve text. also her name shows up as error
     
  7. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    I just tested that area a few days ago. Not fully, since it was a weak character, but somewhat. Try reinstalling the mod. Then go to your data/proto/critters and the items folders. Select all and right click. Then select properties. Uncheck read only, then recheck that box. Sometimes it says a file is read only but it still gets deleted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  8. teskal

    teskal First time out of the vault

    55
    Dec 26, 2015
    I reloaded an older savegame and could this time end the Spleen-Quest with Chip. Not sure if I did anything which used much time, reading a book or so.

    I'm in Navarro in the moment. This time Dobbs don't want to come back. I had same issue in Vault 13, but in V13 only if I try to add Goris.

    Miria made no problems anymore, but I'm always testing her first if I can talk to her.
    About Markus, he makes no issues anymore if I want to add him and several people are in the group.

    (Charisma 9, Magnetic Personality, Cult of ...)

    About the first 2 Cold Hearts quests, can I change something in the F12 Editor to make them recognize I did the broken hills shop basement and kill with laugh gas?
     
  9. Drumpy

    Drumpy First time out of the vault

    2
    Feb 21, 2016
    I found missing texts in version 2.46 (I don't have 2.47) - have looked for her name in Data\Text\English\Dialog - All files from primitive tribe were missing in 2.47.1, so I copied them from old version and now she talks again. (tribec1 - tribec12, tribei1, tribei2, tribem1, tribem2, tribemer, tribemg1, tribemg2, tribesp1 - tribesp3)

    Maybe there is bug with wrong linking of text files, or they just were accidentally deleted.

    Is it ok to do it this way?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  10. lordexvar

    lordexvar First time out of the vault

    2
    Jan 26, 2018
    1 more thing, i cant install power reg chip to sentry skynet, no use action, already did gel and brain. will try fixes for sulik sister when i get home.
     
  11. NihilistyczneImie

    NihilistyczneImie First time out of the vault

    4
    Jun 11, 2016


    My character wears new camouflage, called shittyhawk

    P.S
    How to fix that, or someone can upload critters to my nigga?(correctly repack Pyran)
     
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  12. Dretnoth

    Dretnoth First time out of the vault

    45
    Dec 9, 2015
    I dint know man. Isint that a wrong number on character pick? I dint remember if in game is this character on any NPC. Try post save. Maybe its a armor efect or.. have you used game saves editor?
     
  13. MIB88isSEXY

    MIB88isSEXY First time out of the vault

    1
    Mar 6, 2018
    Just wanted to say that I am DISGUSTED at the lack of People Of Colour included in this "mod" for this "classic game". Granted, there are lots of slitty-eyed soulless insect gooks in San Fran, but WOULD it have KILLED you to INCLUDE at least 50% black, gay, disabled, Hispanic and transexual characters? I AM LITERALLY SHAKING WITH ANGER THAT YOU COULD BE SO TRANSPHOBIC IN A MOD FOR A GAME THAT WAS CREATED *BY* A FtM TRANSEXUAL *FOR* OTHER TRANSEXUALS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!111!ONE!!!1! YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR PRIVILEDGE.

    I am joking, of course. Just poking a bit of fun at the needless insertion of gender politics into an otherwise reasonable thread. It's giving me deja-vu of Gamergate! I really wish these self-important ideologues would go away and create their own stuff in tune with their ideals, and leave us alone to be nerds in peace. It's like they don't want anything to be fun anymore! They just want to make everybody hate them for the attention or something, but they don't realise that pissing off the smartest, most aggressive and powerful demographic is not a clever thing to do. If you ruin our games and other sources of fun, we will be forced to mobilise in order to reset the social order, so - please - just let us be nerds in peace!

    Anyway, rant over. @MIB88, you are the man! Thank you so much for all your hard work over the years and for turning my favourite game ever into a whole new and vastly improved experience, with such little effort required for the end user! I would like to offer you my services as a writer. Should you need any dialogue, descriptions, or whatever it might be, please feel free to PM me (or post here) what you might want and I would be more than happy to get stuff written for you. I'm certainly thinking that the notorious BoS bunker (not that I could actually get in it - but judging by the dialogue in the siege quest and the guard outside the bunker who neglected to give me the damn ACCESS CODES FOR THE LIFT along with his welcome) might need a more coherent and "military" sounding script, as what has been translated so far is very jarring and unnatural. So, please, MIB88 or ANYBODY ELSE that reads this, please do PM me or post here any dialogue that needs doing/improving that you might have noticed.

    Bug report: I have found a couple of spelling errors but I haven't made a proper note on this playthrough, I will probably start another one straight after this one where I am in beta test mode, taking note of everything and trying to break the game! However, I have just encountered a bug that should be an easy fix: I got the "broken alternator" encounter, but when I left the map to start the LONG journey to the Den to get Smitty to fix the part (I'd only bloody broken down a few squares south of the BoS bunker when exploring), I was still in the car, which promptly ran out of fuel about 3 squares up. After a ridiculous hour of failed attempts to get up to the Den (I BLOODY LOVE HOW HARD THE GAME IS NOW AT HIGHER LEVELS, RANDOM MOBS KICKING MY ARSE IN A PARTY OF 4 AT LEVEL 28 WITH ADV POWER ARMOUR!), with those super annoying MIB88isSEXYroaches taking about 10 minutes to finish obliterating Vic and Cassidy with their roach jism ***Pleeeease shorten that animation!!!***** - I FINALLY made it and got Smitty to fix the part for an exorbitant price... Looks like GoldSmittysteinberg has cornered the market on post-apocalyptic automobile maintenence... Trudging all the way back down South while getting about 200 press-ups done while the roaches periodically drown Vic in their jizz for 10 minutes, I tried to pay a visit to the "out of gas" car, which wasn't on the map, and the location wouldn't disappear from the world map when I left. And - as you can probably guess - the save became corrupted from that point. So, the only actual bug for you to look at is leaving the "broken alternator" map and driving away when one should be on foot. Everything that happened after that was my own fault for not fuelling my ride but I thought I'd share it because everyone loves a whacky Fallout story, right? Right?!?! Anyway, even if my ghost car had not run out of fuel, I'm guessing it would have corrupted the save at whatever location I would have arrived at in it, although possibly not if I'd just left it in the wastes. I still have the save at the "broken alternator" encounter, I think, so I can run some tests if you'd like me to.

    Thanks again, MIB88, I hope you've settled in nicely in your new job! Toodles!

    Came across something: When asking Cassidy about himself, if he has any family etc - he says nothing and the conversation just clips back to the very root of his dialogue tree straight away. It must be a very touchy subject for him.

    /edit: Please don't doublepost, and keep your casual slurs against turks and antisemitism to yourself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2018
  14. Pounding Quarters

    Pounding Quarters First time out of the vault

    3
    Mar 12, 2018
    So im very new to Fallout 2 and its mods and while i installed the megamod correctly to my knowledge i was wondering if im supposed to run it through a specific application in order to play the megamod (Fallout2launcher.exe, Fallout2HR.exe, etc.) or if that simply doesnt matter?
     
  15. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    Um... just use the main Fallout2.exe.

    @MIB88isSEXY

    I just... um... where to begin with this post?! It was a fun read. Thanks. And thanks for the kudos and for offering to assist. But, I'm not coordinating or directing any efforts with changing or adding to this mod. So, if you have a preference for something you want to add, change, or fix, then just do it. Really. What would you LIKE to work on? You get something together, and as long as it isn't too much of a departure from the Fallout world, then I'll definitely consider adding it. I'm not going to take a position of asking you (or anyone else) to work on a project they don't want. I'm sure you have some ideas. So throw them out here or PM me. Likewise, if you have any dialog fixes that might help to tie some of the newer Megamod locations together with the original content.

    Yeah, the BoS Bunker. Ugh. I have been putting that off for ages. Every time I say I'm going to work on it, I keep finding other things to work on instead.

    With every release I always find some minor grammar errors or misspellings.

    By the way: There is more than one mechanic in the Wasteland.

    I'll see what I can do about the roaches. They have always been a pain to deal with, as well.

    I'll look at the car breakdown encounter. It's an engine issue, though. I don't know what I can do about that... yet.

    Oh, and I'll look at Cassidy. Should be an easy fix.
     
  16. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    This is one of many of the character enhancements created by Endocore. I still have a lot of these to incorporate. Anyway, it appears as though this bug was an example of me updating dialog without having updated the script. I have corrected this and you will be able to talk to Cassidy about this in the next release.
     
  17. Arathos

    Arathos First time out of the vault

    36
    Feb 2, 2017
    A few bugs.

    1. The prostitutes is Cat's Paw do not say anything when talking to them. No speech bubbles.

    2. While in Colly during the Humphrey Gang questline by the end when I talk to Josie he asks me for a gun and when I ask him if he wants to kill Humphrey then the conversation simply "exits" with no response at all.
     
  18. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    Thanks, @Arathos. I'll add those to the list.
     
  19. obimark

    obimark First time out of the vault

    31
    Aug 1, 2012
    Huh... been a long time since I was here. Glad the thread is still active. MIB88, I'm so happy that you recovered your data. I suffered similar incidents several times. I would suggest using dropbox or google drive, heck, even microsft ondrive would do in a pinch.
    Also glad you haven't stopped working on the mod and despite all the changes in your life you still manage to put in decent amount of work in it. Kudos to you.
    I will be returning to fallout 2 in several months, I have some projects that need finishing. In the meantime thank you for making a lot of us very happy.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  20. seba4285

    seba4285 First time out of the vault

    19
    Jul 23, 2015
    Hello MIB88 how are you ?

    I have to tell you that I love your project.
    But I ask you: when one travels to scrapdown, a citizen says that he knows how to travel to necropolis, but when I kill all the gangs and then talk to him, he does not tell me which is the route to go to necropolis, he only gives me thanks (previously in his talk if he tells me he will tell me)

    Is this a bug?