Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

[Crni Vuk]

Yeah, let us remove ALL of the benefits you get from the EU. It will fix your economy, just like Brexit did for the Brits, sending all those dirty EU money right back into the health care sys ... oh wait.

Don't think I am not in favour of sending tons of money and resources your way, Slovakia, Poland and all the other new members deserve all the support and help they get. You kinda missed my point. This is a Quit-Pro-Quo situation. No one is demanding that you nation should suddenly take 1 million refugees. Germany and France took that bullet for you in the European Union - but it's Merkel that is the asshole in your eyes. Granted, we ignored the issue for decades, due to the fact that we left Greece, Spain, Italy, Romania and Hungary alone with the issue, due to the geographic advantage that Germany had no outside border. But at least our government is taking some responsibility now.

I don't want an Islam theocracy. In fact, I don't want any country wherein Church and Government are one.

Well good luck with that one, for the case you're living in the US :/.

I can't tell you how many gay hating governors, judges, and senators are currently runing some office in the US - but I am sure it is a whole lot. But I can tell you how many Sharia law approvers are currently in office.

0​

 

[CT Phipps]

Yeah, let us remove ALL of the benefits you get from the EU. It will fiy your economy, just like Brexit did for the Brits, sending all those dirty EU money right back into the health care sys ... oh wait.

Someone should say the British don't actually have to leave. Yeah, it'll be embarrassing but we can all shrug it off as the liquor talking.

Just say most of the voters got pissed one evening and hit the wrong button.

Europe will believe it.

So will America.

 

[Jogre]

Muslim populations are rising in several European countries, very soon they will hold political power. If immigration in these countries continues at this rate they'll eventually hold political power and can vote for Sharia (I'm sure that you're familiar with its worst aspects).

Let me put it this way.

In the United Kingdom, Sweden, and Germany less than 5% of the population is Muslim

In France, between 7-9% of the population is Muslim.

In western europe, Muslims are always a vast minority. Consider that very few of them would actively support Sharia law to begin with.

If you think there is any chance of Sharia Law becoming a serious political threat, you are badly mistaken.

Well good luck with that one, for the case you're living in the US :/.

SGG is a Brit.

 

[Hassknecht]

It's actually more than 5% in Germany... 5.4-5.7%, to be precise. What an army.

 

[TheGM]

I'm all for globalization as a general rule.

But allow me to actually throw another argument here from perhaps the greatest political thinker of all time.

You know, when he wasn't being a political idiot.

Now, Richard Nixon had a problem. You see, half of the world was communist and they're not the stupid ass I want to smack them university communists who don't understand what a totalitarian state is like. No, I mean actual scary labor camps, secret police, murder-happy communists with billions of followers. China, in particular, was a place where millions had died due to the mismanagement of Mao as well as the poor attempts to industralize society.

Richard, as a die-hard anti-communist came from a school of idiots who had the belief that the only way to deal with communism was containment and war. Instead, in a moment of brilliance, Milhouse realized there were other ways of winning the Cold War and perhaps the most effective was making peace. He, the only man who could do it because no one could ever accuse him of communist sympathies, went to China and made a relationship with them.

Rather than containment, China became businness partners with America. Not friends, unlike say Taiwan, but invested in the same global economy. China remained a dictatorship but the effect of economic prospeirty and cooperation changed the nature of the culture as well as society so that China is the 2nd most powerful nation on Earth or the 1st from where you're standing. It is also not a free nation but not a Stalinist hellhole either. Yanee plays in supermarkets.

China has a vested interest in America and vice versa, preventing another Global War.

The conflict of Islam vs. America vs. Europe is based on what I consider to be fear that American and European culture is weaker than Islamic. Also, that Islamic culture is an inherently retrograde fundamentalist yelling and shooting religion. That they're somehow Borg who will assimilate us when I believe people given the option of democracy and prosperity will choose that. That also there's nothing inherently inferior about Islam either and they can and in quite a few places DO exist in places which have both freedom as well as religion.

Nixon had faith American "values" were not something which would disintegrate under the Borg-Communism and if he could believe that about them, I think we can believe the same against this mythical Islamic Qunari which everyone seems to believe exists.

INB4 that isn't commienism.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well @JO'Geran, they drunk the cool aid with Brexit then.
You know, I also want that the number of Sharia lovers remains 0 in our governments. But I would also love to see that number of right wing extremists and christian bible lovers to get at least closer to 0 as well.

Why can't we have both ways? Why has it always to be MUSLIM MUSLIM MUSLIM!

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

@SarcasticGoodGuy You're paranoid and xenophobic

I don't want to let people in my country that will either : a) forcibly convert me to a religion against my will or b) kill me. I really don't care about any other immigrants. But I suppose it's easier to just label me.

However, what do you think is more likely right now, that we will see a more and more rising right wing populism eventually turning european states in to authoritarian democracies, not unlike Russia. Particularly when you consider who people like Mike Pence (USA), DeVos (USA), or Le Pen (France), Nigel Farrage (GB) and Borris Johnson (GB) are?

Or that we will adobt the Sharia in a couple of years from now?

The irony here is that you're calling me paranoid for assuming Europe will turn into some Sharia state, and then you go on to make the claim that Western societies will be converted into alt-right authoritarian democracies.

If you think there is any chance of Sharia Law becoming a serious political threat, you are badly mistaken.

Pretty sure I used the word eventually. My point is that I want decent vetting on refugees so that this doesn't happen in the future. I don't think that the UK will turn overnight, but a few years of a "progressive" left Government could make Sharia Law more likely.

@Crni Vuk I agree that Government and religion need to be separate. The reason there's "MUSLIM MUSLIM MUSLIM" is because of the refugee crisis and the fact that thousands of them are entering Europe.

 

[Crni Vuk]

The irony here is that you're calling me paranoid for assuming Europe will turn into some Sharia state, and then you go on to make the claim that Western societies will be converted into alt-right authoritarian democracies.

Yes. The Irony. Oh the Paranoia of Right Wing populists taking over politics and making a huge influence on it ...







I mean hey, what is the worst that could happen.

And I am not sure who could profit the most from a dismantled European Union ...

 

[BigGuyCIA]

You've taken a 90-day (admittedly stupid and hasty) ban, and blown it up into being proof that the country is shifting into an authoritarian police-state.

Can you please stop?

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

These darn white supremacists with their dirty nativism!

I know! I'll post large pictures of political leaders! That will show them!
Maybe some videos too! Let's see... a right-wing politician lying! Hahaha fascists you have been destroyed for sure now!
And a video that says nationalism != racism - when it actually does according to me.

 

[Crni Vuk]

@SarcasticGoodGuy
And they call us leftist the bootlickers of Russia and Puttin ... mhmm, while there are the German right wing party, AFD that gets funds right from Russia.


Yes, @BigGuyCIA, so let me explain this as simple as I can, because it might be UNLIKELY from our current perspective to have an authoritarian US and EU - but who would have thought 2-3 years ago that Trump would be POTUS by now?

But, a very simple question now. What is MORE Likely from our CURRENT perspective.

1. A Europe and US influenced by Islam in support for Sharia?
   
   
2. Or a more authoritarian EU and US under christian influence? Just answer that to me. What is more likely from our CURRENT perspective?

So now, a more authoritarian Europe/US under christian influence? Or a EU/US closer to Islam? That is the important question here. And do we actually have examples in history for such cases? And infact, we do! As far as Europe goes, since the founding of the US we had no Islamic regime in Europe anymore, and the last time that Islam managed to get a large foothold in Europe, was in occupying the whole Spanian peninsula and under Ottoman rule - Balkans and parts of eastern Europe. And how likely is that we will see something like that in the near future again?

 

[CT Phipps]

You've taken a 90-day (admittedly stupid and hasty) ban, and blown it up into being proof that the country is shifting into an authoritarian police-state.

Can you please stop?

I hate Trump but my opinion was he was elected by Americans who wanted jobs, not a police state.

Trump isn't exactly Palpatine either.

He's just a nativist corrupt businessman.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Yes, @BigGuyCIA, so let me explain this as simple as I can, because it might be UNLIKELY from our current perspective to have an authoritarian US and EU - but who would have thought 2-3 years ago that Trump would be POTUS by now?

You mean a billionaire that has money to spend on advertising and rallies, is seen favourably by the general public, and has shown an interest in politics and the idea of running for POTUS for several years? Bonus points for having no political track record, just look at Hillary.

@SarcasticGoodGuy
And they call us leftist the bootlickers of Russia and Puttin ... mhmm, while there are the German right wing party, AFD that gets funds right from Russia.

Wtf is this post? No one calls the left bootlickers, if anything the left is calling the right bootlickers of Putin because of Donald not wanting to incite war.

But, a very simple question now. What is MORE Likely from our CURRENT perspective.

1. A Europe and US influenced by Islam in support for Sharia?
   
   
2. Or a more authoritarian EU and US under christian influence? Just answer that to me. What is more likely from our CURRENT perspective?

Christian influence? I get the authoritarian part on some level (still a double standard as you're paranoid if you think all of Europe will just go to a police state), but why did you add that Christian bit? I'm genuinely intrigued as to how much influence the evil white religion holds over Europe now.

 

[DarkCorp]

Trump will most likely be gone in 4 years unless he gets his shit together. Not to mention, he still has to deal with congress as well.

You have a point that we have a populist leader who seemingly favors the far right but then again, look at Bernie, crazy man, Sanders.

He is as commie as one could get in the states and arguably would be issuing super lefty executive actions had he been elected.

Had Bernie been elected, atleast in the states, it is certainly possible that a pro BLM, super leftist, open border extremist would be heading the government.

To say that Trump will make America into Nazi Germany is no different than being an islamophobe.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

You have a point that we have a populist leader who seemingly favors the far right but then again, look at Bernie, crazy man, Sanders.

"Free education for everyone!"
"Well gee Bernie good idea and I hate to be that guy, but nothing in life is free- someone always pays for it"
"You're right somebody will pay for it"

>free
>somebody will pay for it

Pick one it's not that hard Bernie.

 

[GonZo_626]

@SarcasticGoodGuy
And they call us leftist the bootlickers of Russia and Puttin ... mhmm, while there are the German right wing party, AFD that gets funds right from Russia.


Yes, @BigGuyCIA, so let me explain this as simple as I can, because it might be UNLIKELY from our current perspective to have an authoritarian US and EU - but who would have thought 2-3 years ago that Trump would be POTUS by now?

But, a very simple question now. What is MORE Likely from our CURRENT perspective.

1. A Europe and US influenced by Islam in support for Sharia?
   
   
2. Or a more authoritarian EU and US under christian influence? Just answer that to me. What is more likely from our CURRENT perspective?

So now, a more authoritarian Europe/US under christian influence? Or a EU/US closer to Islam? That is the important question here. And do we actually have examples in history for such cases? And infact, we do! As far as Europe goes, since the founding of the US we had no Islamic regime in Europe anymore, and the last time that Islam managed to get a large foothold in Europe, was in occupying the whole Spanian peninsula and under Ottoman rule - Balkans and parts of eastern Europe. And how likely is that we will see something like that in the near future again?

You keep talking about this authoritarian Christian USA, but unfortunately for you the US has a big red button, Libertarian Gun Owners. These people believe in actual freedom unlike the democrats or republicans (although a healthy amount of them support the republicans due to somewhat similar ideas, but some support the democrats) and actually amount to a good amount of the population. And they hate authoritarians.

 

[Hassknecht]

Well @JO'Geran, they drunk the cool aid with Brexit then.
You know, I also want that the number of Sharia lovers remains 0 in our governments. But I would also love to see that number of right wing extremists and christian bible lovers to get at least closer to 0 as well.

Sawsan Chebli at least thinks that Sharia is compatible to the Grundgesetz... But her notion of what Sharia means might be a bit different to what it means für the IS.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

oops quoted the wrong one.

You keep talking about this authoritarian Christian USA, but unfortunately for you the US has a big red button, Libertarian Gun Owners. These people believe in actual freedom unlike the democrats or republicans (although a healthy amount of them support the republicans due to somewhat similar ideas, but some support the democrats) and actually amount to a good amount of the population. And they hate authoritarians.

Total freedom is total chaos. Something has to give, sorry. That seems to be a memo a lot of people forgot. It's a compromise, a compromise on rights and freedom and liberty, along with the social contract and the state. Things which barely are even talked about in school. People cry 'religious freedom' because they can't discriminate anymore. Boo-hoo, something's gotta give - already we've seen Satanists and parodists turn the laws on the ones who pinned for them.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

@SarcasticGoodGuy
And they call us leftist the bootlickers of Russia and Puttin ... mhmm, while there are the German right wing party, AFD that gets funds right from Russia.


Yes, @BigGuyCIA, so let me explain this as simple as I can, because it might be UNLIKELY from our current perspective to have an authoritarian US and EU - but who would have thought 2-3 years ago that Trump would be POTUS by now?

But, a very simple question now. What is MORE Likely from our CURRENT perspective.

1. A Europe and US influenced by Islam in support for Sharia?
   
   
2. Or a more authoritarian EU and US under christian influence? Just answer that to me. What is more likely from our CURRENT perspective?

So now, a more authoritarian Europe/US under christian influence? Or a EU/US closer to Islam? That is the important question here. And do we actually have examples in history for such cases? And infact, we do! As far as Europe goes, since the founding of the US we had no Islamic regime in Europe anymore, and the last time that Islam managed to get a large foothold in Europe, was in occupying the whole Spanian peninsula and under Ottoman rule - Balkans and parts of eastern Europe. And how likely is that we will see something like that in the near future again?

Number one - only if little is done to hold immigrants to the same standards we hold ourselves to.

I hate Trump but my opinion was he was elected by Americans who wanted jobs, not a police state.

Trump isn't exactly Palpatine either.

He's just a nativist corrupt businessman.

I mean, you're pushing an open-door with me when you call him a corrupt businessman. I didn't bother voting this election cycle because I can't, in good conscience, choose between a lesser of two evils - and the circle jerk threat of "a non-vote is a vote for Trump" isn't enough to get me to budge on the issue.

A lot of Americans are single-issue voters (regardless of the stripe they're wearing).

 

[Crni Vuk]

Yes, of course Immigrants should follow the laws of the societies they want to live in and criminals should be send back to their nation of origin. Where have I said they should not?

Christian influence? I get the authoritarian part on some level (still a double standard as you're paranoid if you think all of Europe will just go to a police state), but why did you add that Christian bit? I'm genuinely intrigued as to how much influence the evil white religion holds over Europe now.

So much to answering a simple yes or no question. If you're telling me that christian values and religion plays ABSOLUTELY ZERO role in European politics, than I am serious asking if you're dellusional.

The CSU in Bavaria? CHRISTLICH Soziale Union? The CDU in Germany? CHRISTLICH Demokratische Union? How comes that every classroom school at my job - I am supervising children - has a fucking cross at the wall? How often do politicans talk about 'christian' values? Particularly right wing populists, not just in the US - Tea Party anyone, but also Europe? Have you googled a bit about Mike Pence, and that he wanted to use PUBLIC FUNDS(!) to go for the conversion therapy? Why do we call a democracy like Germany secular, when we have a 'church tax', that people pay and that goes to the church. How comes that the church is claiming anything good the Caritas does, which receives a majority of their funding from the government.

We surely are not Saudi Arabia - thank god! - But we aren not those totally atheist nations that never ever let anyting be influenced by 'religion'. Every seen what is printed on the almighty Dollar? In god we trust. Which is also present on quite a few 'public buildings' across the United States. And the examples go on and on, from christan reborn judges to catholic/protestant senators, to a president that talks about 'god' before going to the Iraq War, or Senators that visited refugees in Pakistan when the Soviets occupied Afhganistan, shouting Allahu Akbar, God is Great and that they all believe in 'something' while the Russians in 'nothing' and 'Quote' America will always be on the side of the good guys ... yeah, remember guys? There was a time the US was best buddies with the radical shit heats, as long as they bombed the 'other' guys.

Don't let us pretend, like we're living in some kind of incredibly special times when it comes to Islam.