Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

Hassknecht said:
It's totally not a muslim ban, of course.
*cough*
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I'm trying to follow the logic of the countries banned.

Iraq
Syria
Iran
Sudan
Libya
Somalia
Yemen

Iran I understand, even though we just made supposed peace with them...

Syria makes sense if we're assuming ISIS is hiding among the many people they want to rape and murder...

Iraq is our ALLY in fighting ISIS...also winning the war against them, confusedly. I wonder if Trump is going to take away our support there because they're all bad.

Sudan is very fundamentalist.

Somalia is poor.

We're bombing the shit out of Yemen with drones to the point they feel like they live in the Matrix/Terminator's future.

Libya wished we'd bombed them MORE.
 
CT Phipps said:
I'm trying to follow the logic of the countries banned.

Iraq
Syria
Iran
Sudan
Libya
Somalia
Yemen

Iran I understand, even though we just made supposed peace with them...

Syria makes sense if we're assuming ISIS is hiding among the many people they want to rape and murder...

Iraq is our ALLY in fighting ISIS...also winning the war against them, confusedly. I wonder if Trump is going to take away our support there because they're all bad.

Sudan is very fundamentalist.

Somalia is poor.

We're bombing the shit out of Yemen with drones to the point they feel like they live in the Matrix/Terminator's future.

Libya wished we'd bombed them MORE.
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I'll quote myself here:
Hassknecht said:
Trump_s_Einreiseverbot_verschont_Laender__in_denen-01.png

"The immigration ban excempts muslim countries where The Trump Organization owns golf courses and real estate".
SwQ8yQS.jpg


While it is admirable to finally a see a politician actually do all the things verbatim that he promised during the campaign, it's not all that great that it had to be this one...

But the good thing is that he's pushing for safe zones in Syria and so on, providing aid where it's needed, because it's kinda silly to let people travel half the globe through dozens of safe countries and still call them "refugees" if we're being honest. Providing help locally is definitely the way to go... Although recent reports from libyan refugee camps indicate that these camps are seriously bad. Like, concentration camp bad, where smugglers randomly shoot people. Which just goes to show that the aid needs to be provided locally, and not after they travelled literally to another continent.
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The logic is simple: Ban the icky brown people, but not those where The Trump Organization has golf courses and real estate.
 
Someone said that Trump is runing the united states just like his business, throwing one decree out after another. And it makes sense - for him. Little does he know, that a government isn't a buisness and that you can't govern just with decrees, I mean maybe if the US was a kingdom, but as democracy?

Kinda interesting how so many people that voted him are now surprised about it. Isn't that what he said all the time in the campaign? That he would run it like a buisness?
 
Crni Vuk said:
Someone said that Trump is runing the united states just like his buisness. And it makes sense.

Kinda interesting how so many people that voted him are now surprised about it. Isn't that what he said all the time in the campaign? That he would run it like a buisness?
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People, people, I said it before, if you wanted to have America run like a corporation then you should have voted Mitt Romney.

We would have gotten free pizza day at least.
 
It's still hard to get over the fact that the United States has no a president that did this:




And could potentialy start a war over twitter before the Pentagon even knows it.

President Camacho, is nothing against him.
 
Crni Vuk said:
You know what the real joke is? Afghanistan was recently declared a "safe nation" by the German state, so that a lot of people from Afghanistan could be send back there.

Safe my ass. Why are German soldiers still there if it is safe?

Some member in our Parliament made the comment, how we can now cynically test how safe the nation is, since they have send already 30 people back, at the end of the year we can take a look at how many of them are still alive. And the fun part is, quite a few of the people we send back, could be considered as well integrated citizens.



No one deserves this kind of hate, regardless if we talk about Scientology, Muslims or reformed Chrstians. That's the point. You don't run around defending your democratic values like religious freedom, freedom of spech etc. by attacking muslims. You engage in debates, giving out arguments, talking to individuals, not treating individuals like groups.

And when you say people that, you are kinda treated like you want the Shariah law or that you defend people that want it.
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I mean that like people who kill Muslim people or rape them, basically any hate crime against Muslim people or any damn religion really you deserve big boy bobby in your anus. This is part of the reason I don't do religion shit because it ends in violence. I mean I like a good DEUS VULT meme but actually doin that shit, ehhhh.
 
Well, we can talk about the differences in Christianity and Islam. If you take the preachings of Jesus and compare it with the biography of the Prophet? You have to quite some mental gymnastics here to justify wars, genocides and torture with the Sermon on the Mount. However, If you compare the Bible as a whole with the Quaran, it becomes pointless, since both books are just bogus bed time stories about some dudes working miracles or what ever.

But that's not what we're talking about here, this isn't a qustion about philosphy or the difference between religion. It's simply that some use Islam to push their agenda forward, just as how Hitler used the Jews - just in a much less viollent way.

I find it simply hilarious that some people, like fucked up republicans that don't give a rats ass about the poor and don't take christianity actually serious while bombing nations left and right for humanitarian reasons, blame all muslims for those Islamists that take their religion too serious.

And yes, we can also talk about the democrats and how they apoloigze to much, and have a problem to see any issues with the religion of Islam. But if I am honest, Islam is right now the LEAST of Americans problems, when you look at how strong the Christian fundamentalism is. They are not choping of heads, stoning gays to death or all that, of course not. But honestly, what is more likely, that the US will adopt the Shariah law in a couple of decades, or that it might end up as Christian authoritarian state?

Unlikely? Well, look at it from that angle. More than 40% of the Americans believe in angles as a real thing, and even more support one way or another Christian faith of have grown up in christian families. Second, the Vice President is someone that could be easily described as a radical or fundamentalist Christian, same for many other staff members under Trump that have at least close ties to the Christian fait. And it gets worse, the secretary of Education DeVos is a Reborn Christian, that has attended a private school, her children have been in one and she supports christian private schools and followed for decades an agenda where she tried to push public schools out. On top of that, she is hiliariously incompetent when it comes to schools. And third but not least, you have the Tea Party and lots of governors, senators, judges etc. that one way or another feel very 'christian' and strong about their beliefs and outright dennying scientific FACTS(!).




But yes, radical Islam, is definetly and without ANY doubts the largest and biggest threat to the American democracy and way of life right now ...
 
Crni Vuk said:
But yes, radical Islam, is definetly and without ANY doubts the largest and biggest threat to the American democracy and way of life right now ...
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America was founded by religious fanatics and remains far more closer to religious-influenced states (like, amusingly, many Muslim nations) than Europe. It's just an unholy hybrid of Christianity/corporatism and authoritarian government has been stewing around in Washington for decades.
 
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CT Phipps said:
America was founded by religious fanatics and remains far more closer to religious-influenced states (like, amusingly, many Muslim nations) than Europe. It's just an unholy hybrid of Christianity/corporatism and authoritarian government has been stewing around in Washington for decades.
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I am not really that well known when it comes to the founding fathers, but havnt some of them been actually atheists? I do remember that Washington and Frankling had even good things to say about Islam.
I would be really surprised to hear that the US was founded by 'fanatics', remember we are talking about christians from the 17th and 18th century here. The constitution at least, doesn't mention anything that one religion in particular should be more important than the others, and the US is a secular state as far as I know. Many people fleed from Europe to start a new live and to live their live and religion without the fear of beeing eventually imprisoned or worse, so many knew what it meant to be pursued for your belief - or your lack of it, hence why religious freedom has such a high value in the constitution, it's not just there to protect Muslims like today, but actually also all the different christian faiths and schools. I mean what would stop a catholic state, to bann mormonism for example?
And yet, the government particularly the further south you get, is so chock full of borderline fanatic christians ... and no one really cares.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
I am not really that well known when it comes to the found fathers, but havnt some of them been actually atheists? I would be really surprised to hear that the US was founded by 'fanatics', remember we are talking about christians from the 17th and 18th century here. The constitution at least, doesn't mention anything about it, and the US is a secular state as far as I know. And yet, the government particularly the further south you get, is so schock full of borderline fanatic christians ... and no one really cares.
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You're talking about the Revolution while I'm talking about the colonization by the Puritans and Pilgrams who were, as people well know, driven from England for their faith (because they were nutcases). Some were atheists, others secular, and many believed in the separation of Church and State not because of a belief of Christianity versus atheism but because Christians hated other Christians to the point of warring continuously.
 
A ban on immigrants is an attack on the people, not the governments these individuals may be trying to escape from. I'm all for tempered and controlled immigration policies, but banning people outright is ridiculous.

CT Phipps said:
Eh, Dubya already tried that.
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Eh, gross misrepresentation of what actually happened and how complicated that situation was.

As an aside, I know a lot of people can sit around and claim that, in hindsight, we were better off not going into Iraq because "Isis happened" or "Saddam had it under-control and there were no WMD's." But, we had plenty of other good reasons to go in...like Saddam taking shot at US aircraft, and the ongoing genocide against kurds in the region. Unfortunately the WMD smoking gun narrative is more compelling than "we're gonna go in and save the brown people."

Why do you think the US supports Saudi Arabia? It does so especially because it's so weak, to secure Arabia's oil and to ensure they act as an appropriate counterbalance to Iran. It used to be Iraq but well... thanks to the Americans, not anymore.
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Leaving Iraq was a mistake. It would have taken at least several decades of U.S. influence in the region in order to ensure that the secular government took root and gained traction within the communities. Obama administration messed that one up big time.
 
My view of Iraq was that the war was going fine but the reconstruction was grossly mismanaged with all the lessons of WW2 forgotten.

* Patton advocated using ex-Nazis to keep the region stable--and they did/we dismantled the entire Iraqi army and police force
* We used local German forces to rebuild the country/We had American contractors do the bare minimum for more money
* Much of the American military is already garrisoning countries across the globe.
* Billions of funds were stolen from the Iraq reconstruction effort

These are staggeringly awful decisions and just part of the larger issue that, yes, the justifications for invading Iraq were probably justified.

BUT it was in the middle of an existing war.
 
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BigGuyCIA said:
A ban on immigrants is an attack on the people, not the governments these individuals may be trying to escape from. I'm all for tempered and controlled immigration policies, but banning people outright is ridiculous.


Eh, gross misrepresentation of what actually happened and how complicated that situation was.

As an aside, I know a lot of people can sit around and claim that, in hindsight, we were better off not going into Iraq because "Isis happened" or "Saddam had it under-control and there were no WMD's." But, we had plenty of other good reasons to go in...like Saddam taking shot at US aircraft, and the ongoing genocide against kurds in the region. Unfortunately the WMD smoking gun narrative is more compelling than "we're gonna go in and save the brown people."



Leaving Iraq was a mistake. It would have taken at least several decades of U.S. influence in the region in order to ensure that the secular government took root and gained traction within the communities. Obama administration messed that one up big time.
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Shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place.
 
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