Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

Hmmmm, that's right resort to name calling, tell people to F off, yes yes that's the lefts way instead of discussing it.
1. I never said anything about it being all people in a religion I have stated as part of the continuing discussion that is was a few from some religions
2. The states is lax on there vetting process compared to some other countries including the bastion of peace that is my country Canada
3. Depends on where you draw the line quite a few fully support Sharia law over there governments laws which seems pretty extreme to me
4. I won't trash you for your beliefs but that does not help the discussion
5. What part about I don't support the ban can you not get through your skull, I have worked and discussed many things with muslims and have no problem with the majority of them I don't think anybody should be judged by their religion, but I also think people should not talk about their religion.

Sorry for the name calling as its a subject that hits close to home. Hope my actions can be forgiven but reading it made you sound like an ass sorry. (I am also Canadian)

1. I just felt it was an irrelevant point
2. It really isn't, there's a john Oliver segment detailing how that is very much not true. If you said about say Chinese or Indian people maybe id believe you. But considering the lack of immigrant attacks (aka non domestic to exclude Quebec and the Florida night club which are more in line with mass shootings than religious zeal) then I think its working just fine.
3. I have never in my life met a Muslim who supports sharia law openly. Im sorry but white people are obsessed with the idea that Muslims all want eye for an eye laws or something.
4.Fair enough, my insults were un called for.
5. Thats not for you to decide. People have the right to discuss or not discuss anything they please. Im glad you don't support it but I view anyone who does as a monster straight up.

Again apologies for the insults since this is a rather personal topic
 
You should at least state you're ok with genocide then.
Well, the issue is once you adobt this policy, you have to intervene in EVERY corner of the world. Why was Iraq worse than let us say Rhuanda with over 1 million killed Tutsi? The Hutu killed 75% of the Tutsi population in just 100 days. Imagine if some group killed 75% of all the white people in the US. With machetes.

When we will we learn, that military actions are NOT the answer to humanitarian issues. This isn't like fighting the Nazi regime from WW2 that openly attacked you or declaring a war on your nation.

Because at this point, I think no one with a sane mind bought the reasons the US governmant gave either for invading Afghanistan or Iraq. Afghanistan had probably more to do with simple revenge, let us be blunt about it, this had much less to do with 'justice'. The whole nation was crying for 'blood', which is when you think about it kinda cynical as of course when others do it to the US or Europe because our all so precise attacks killed another wedding with 70 people and terrorists targeting us, they are all assholes.
And Iraq was as much about unfinished business as it was about economic and political reasons. Seriously, it reminded me to that movie Wag the Dog, with Dustin Hoffman, where they fabricated a war with Albania or something, because the President fucked a child and they needed a story to get the medias attention from that ...

The historians of the future will have a lot of work infront of them when all this shit is over and maybe the world came to some kind of peacefull agreement with muslim world, I am curious how fugure generations in 80 or 100 years will look on 2001 or 2017. Historians have this habit that they are extremly harsh, particularly to those that justify their actions with 'just' reasons. Do you think any colonial power of the 18th or 19th century moved into Africa with the intention to enslave the population and killing millions? Most of the people back than thought they did the 'right' thing by going down there, educationg the barbarians and teaching them western values, bringing order, governance, laws etc. while also exploting heavily. But does the good thing colonialism brought to some nations, like a clear jurisdiction and governance actually outweight the bad things it caused? Most people today would say that colonialism was overall a bad thing. And I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years historians will say that 'our' intentions in the middle east have been just as bad with millions of dead muslims due to our actions.

We can talk all day about our reasons and what ever if they are good or not or what ever. But at the end of the day you simply have to ask your self one question.

How effective have we been in erradicating both tyranical regimes and terrorism? Can you REALLY and HONESTLY say that all the people that died, including muslims and US/European soldiers justified all of what we achieved to this day? Afghanistan is not in any way or shape safer than with the Taliban really, their government is just as corrupt and if all our soldiers leave tomorrow, the nation will be back into chaos. Or Iraq? Have you seen the kind of government they have today in power? Not only corrupt but almost as opressive like Sadams regime, just in the oposite direction.
 
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A country with more school shootings a year than terrorist attacks decides baning objects is too barbaric but baning people based on religion is ok. That is without going into how the US meddling is partly responsible for the inestability of the region or that the countries that weren't banned are coincidentaly places Trumpy cheese makes businesses with.
 
The ever predictable, always sanctimonious NMA righteous outrage strokeshow!

Glad to see you guys are effecting real change and not just circle jerking.

Stop slacking and spam some Jon Stewart clips ffs.
 
The ever predictable, always sanctimonious NMA righteous outrage strokeshow!

Glad to see you guys are effecting real change and not just circle jerking.

Stop slacking and spam some Jon Stewart clips ffs.
Ok Mr. smarty pants, explain to us how this "bann" will help to keep the US save or prevent future terrorist attacks, from people that are literaly ready to blow them self up - and thus finding most probably any possible legal and ilegal way to get into the US to do their thing.



*Edit
Bonus question:
Let us say in a couple of months another deranged idiot - who was also born in the US by parents from lets say Saudi Arabia - grabs an Ak that he bought somewhere maybe even legaly, storms a gay club and shoots another 20 or 30 people in the name of Allah. Because if one thing is clear, we all know that something like that IS BOUND to happen again at some point in the future, just like the next school schooting with lots of dead bodies will becoming again.

What should be the next step in all this to stop them?
 
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A country with more school shootings a year than terrorist attacks decides baning objects is too barbaric but baning people based on religion is ok. That is without going into how the US meddling is partly responsible for the inestability of the region or that the countries that weren't banned are coincidentaly places Trumpy cheese makes businesses with.
How do you exactly plan to get guns out of circulation in USA? How do you stop gang culture?
 
well, there are two muslim kids who I have classes with, both of which I am gr8 friends with, I guess I should get ready for them to kill me and introduce sharia law because ALL AMERICANS MUST DIEEEEE.
rite?
 
Implying gangs are the only ones that use guns to commit crimes? I know better than to fall for the coding of "gang culture" as "minorities commit more crime".
 
There is never a "biggest source of violence" kind of a childish outlook really. Low quality education and healthcare systems, wage gaps, demonization of mental disease, deregulation of guns and overt criminalization of drugs that was born out of a movement to find excuses to persecute ethnic minorities coupled with a culture that glorifies the military and wars, the problem is pretty complex.
 
Okay, fine. I don't care. Most of us didn't care. The US already had a no fly zone over Kurdistan in the 90s with Saddam taking pot shots, big whoop. (along with the gulf). Iran was supporting the rebels since the Iran-Iraq war.

There are genocides ongoing right now - Rohinya in Burma, a flare up in Darfur again. Nigerian tribal tensions in the Delta. Should we rush in and topple those governments and put up a peacekeeping and stability force? Fuck. No. We don't have the cash. We don't have the interest. Simple as that. Bush didn't rush in to defend the Kurds, he rushed in because he didn't want to be outdone by daddy, the same daddy who had to be emotionally handjob'd by Thatcher to rush into Kuwait in the first place.

Idealism doesn't - and mostly shouldn't - drive geopolitics. Gets expensive.

I can understand you not really giving a shit, but for me it's personal considering my family was affected by a genocide. I wouldn't wish the same plight on any other culture or group.

The Kurds at least had some semblance of being impartial as a secular government, something the Middle East desperately needs. Plus, a peaceful, secular group of Middle Eastern countries can have lasting, positive effects on the rest of the world - one such event being we don't need to open up the Times and read about how 50 people were beheaded in a soccer stadium, and/or reset the counter on "days since X terrorist attack."

The Kurds weren't worth our economy going to shit or the region become unstable

The economy was going to go to shit regardless of whether or not the Iraq war happened (the two were completely unrelated).

How do you exactly plan to get guns out of circulation in USA? How do you stop gang culture?

Investment into education.
 
Kurds are an Iranian people (like Tajiks and Afghans) who usually gain support from Iran. (Though clashes between some extreme Kurdish groups and Iran have happened recently on the Kurdistan border but this isnt a on going issue like in Turkey and as of right now there is no fighting between the Iranian government and extremist Kurdish groups)

Should a Kurdistan exist? I doubt Turkey or Iran would ever compromise their sovereignty for the Kurd's. Considering most Kurd's in Iran are well integrated (one of my great grandfather's was a Kurd) and the Iranian government would never allow it. Turkey is a despotic corrupt police state and they would never allow it because they hate the Kurds and the Armenians. Iraq and Syria being relatively new and unstable countries is the best place for any Kurdish nation. But the further break up of the middle east might cause issues.

Also any American who thinks the Kurds are on their side is fooling themselves.
 
There is never a "biggest source of violence" kind of a childish outlook really. Low quality education and healthcare systems, wage gaps, demonization of mental disease, deregulation of guns and overt criminalization of drugs that was born out of a movement to find excuses to persecute ethnic minorities coupled with a culture that glorifies the military and wars, the problem is pretty complex.
Look when I go to a doctor, I don't go on say that I didn't eat enough fruits or get enough exercise when he asks me how I feel.
Investment into education
That sounds pretty vague. While I do think education needs more money, simply throwing money at problem isn't going to fix.
 
The drama continues: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-idUSKBN15E1DE

Because at this point, I think no one with a sane mind bought the reasons the US governmant gave either for invading Afghanistan or Iraq. Afghanistan had probably more to do with simple revenge, let us be blunt about it, this had much less to do with 'justice'. The whole nation was crying for 'blood', which is when you think about it kinda cynical as of course when others do it to the US or Europe because our all so precise attacks killed another wedding with 70 people and terrorists targeting us, they are all assholes.

I'm curious why you have an issue with the invasion of Afghanistan because, bluntly, it seemed like if there is a criteria for war then it certainly was fulfilled there. Unlike in Iraq, Afghanistan had been harboring and assisting Al-Qaeda which had just launched an attempt to decapitate the United States military as well as economic structure with a Pearl Harbor level of deaths. It, furthermore, had been involved in countless human rights violations as well as was committing daily atrocities. As much support as the Taliban had in some areas, it's public also generally loathed the regime as well.

Revenge was certainly a motive but so was the prevention of future attacks.
 
Jo"Geran

Weird stuff. I see the picture on several devices and others see it too.

CaptJ

- Three administrations went and gone since then. And more than 15 years.
- One time event, that doesn't reflect the yearly average
- Law agains't terrorism were updated then. There was a bit of controversy but at least you could say there was an event on US soil that could motivate things. Not so much happened on 2016-2017 that could *justify* the new update.
- In any case, there is a conscious decision to put a foreign enemy far away on the forefront, to take away attention from actual problems, often more lethal.
 
I'm curious why you have an issue with the invasion of Afghanistan because, bluntly, it seemed like if there is a criteria for war then it certainly was fulfilled there. Unlike in Iraq, Afghanistan had been harboring and assisting Al-Qaeda which had just launched an attempt to decapitate the United States military as well as economic structure with a Pearl Harbor level of deaths. It, furthermore, had been involved in countless human rights violations as well as was committing daily atrocities. As much support as the Taliban had in some areas, it's public also generally loathed the regime as well.

Revenge was certainly a motive but so was the prevention of future attacks.
That invasion really fucked up Pakistan. Poor Pakistan, trying so hard and spending so much to ensure a Pakistan-friendly government so that when the war with India comes they have a place to retreat and recuperate. Instead, the US invaded and screwed them over hard with a shitty option of going on America's public shit list or backstabbing their Taliban allies. Course they with with the US, and the Taliban never really forgave them for that betrayal. India's real pleased though.
Bernie was as close as one could get.
Yeah, but that's setting the bar really low.
 
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