My defense of fallout 3

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Helloitme, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    Because you are. I've seen many defenses of Fallout 3 and none of them were as pathetic as yours. This will be our last conversation, because I'm going to do something I should have done a while ago and put you in the Ignore box. You contribute nothing of value to my day.
     
  2. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    it's not his opinion, it's what the game says. The game says which decision is good and which is bad by either giving you good karma or bad karma. The game is actively telling which one is good and which one is bad.

    Also you can't simply ignore the karma mechanic to make the quests seem morally grey, it's an integral part of the game.

    The karma mechanic was heavily underutilized in New Vegas because it's a terrible mechanic to begin with. Obsidian decided to downplay it greatly.

    It doesn't matter if you fucking disagree, that's what the game is telling you. That's what being conveyed to the player. Ignoring it is ignoring an integral mechanic of the game.
    Are you fucking serious? You can talk down guards in Oblivion by yelding and that's a game in the same engine and made two years prior. There was no "technical limitation", it was just shitty writing.


    Holy fucking shit, your arguments somehow got even worse. You are reaching damn hard for these that is almost laughable. Just stop honestly, you are either trolling at this point or you are just so butthurt that people presented legitimate arguments that completely destroyed yours that you can't simply let go.

    Yeah, we're done here. Don't bother replying, i won't respond back.
     
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  3. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    I think I just realized why I dislike Fallout 3 more and more each time I log on to this site. It's because I don't want to be associated with people like this.

    Dude, I enjoy Fallout 3, but this is not defending it, if that's even what you're doing here. This simple of an implementation being not in the game due to TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS means it's badly designed and railroady. Oh my god.
     
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  4. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Mate, were you preparing this epic comeback from Tuesday?

    Absolutely no one attacks you for liking FO3.

    You've asked for discussion about it being a good RPG. And you got many constructive responses (some of them from people that like FO3 too).

    You said that you like FO3. That's an opinion.
    But you made a STATEMENT that FO3 is great RPG with many roleplaying options and whole bunch of non-linear morally grey quests. Risewild (guy that spent several years modding the game) went through EVERY quest in the game to provide counter-argument to this statement and your counter- argument is "you meanies, you're gay"?

    You even know how discussion works?
     
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  5. Helloitme

    Helloitme First time out of the vault

    54
    Jun 23, 2018
    Yea, you know what? You guys are right, I’ve been spending more time arguing about fallout 3 than I have been playing it.

    I guess... I was so worked up over the fact that people dislike this game that it brought out the inner fanboy in me and made me start to act like an idiot.

    And to be honest, I didn’t even know what I was expecting. I came on a website that is specifically known for hostility towards the modern games.

    I don’t know. No matter how hard I try, I tried to force myself to put fallout new Vegas in above fallout 3 but I couldn’t do it. And it’s not because of nostalgia, because I got new Vegas and fallout 3 at the same time. What I love so much about both of them is that I can create whatever character I want, but I guess that’s not true with 3 apparently.

    I feel like a TLJ fan right now. That’s why I got too defensive for my own good. I’m sorry for acting like an idiot... goodbye NMA.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  6. Helloitme

    Helloitme First time out of the vault

    54
    Jun 23, 2018
    Funny thing is that today is July 13, the lone wanderers birthday yet I haven’t played fallout 3 at all today cause I was arguing with people I don’t even know on the internet. Holy hell...
     
  7. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    Good-bye and good riddance
     
  8. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    Wait, the Lone Wanderer has a SPECIFIC birthday date? Jesus Christ, this game just keeps getting worse and worse.

    I guess New Vegas is not a modern game. Probably made in the Dark Ages or something.
     
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  9. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    So, you claim to enjoy 3 and not care what people think, only to fall apart when people criticize during discussions on 3 you claim you want to partake it and take things personally in the process, resorting to direct insults and unironically telling someone to die in a reply (based on a post and my attempt at deciphering your lack of proper grammar on that part).

    You're pretty much a run-of-the-mill troll at this point. Better you leave before you fall apart even more.

    Well, all I can say is:

    Don't forget to let the door hit you on the way out.

    LW's always the same age when they leave the Vault. The only thing that differs between each LW is their gender, nothing else will differ no matter what you do in the Vault (save for the break-out due to the people you may kill).

    Edit: Since OP has hopefully left the forums, I think this thread should be locked away. It has no real point at this point seeing as OP clearly does not want discussions but rather an uninformed echo-chamber.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  10. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    First, those quests are technically quests. They are set the same way as any other quest is set in the game engine, they work and process the same, they just don't appear on the piboy which is an option when you make a quest.... I don't understand what you mean by technically because that is exactly what they are... I have been dwelling in the game engine since Morrowind and I can tell you that any modder or Bethesda developer will tell you that they are technically quests.

    Also I made a point of posting about all the quests, I gave numbers, I even put the fetch repetitive quests aside right away... I mentioned the unmarked ones because they are part of the game, they are game content and some of them are some of the ones with more options, like the example I mentioned about Mei and Sister, it has 4 different resolutions and they are all very different (snitch to Sister, enslave Mei, give money for Mei to buy a weapon or kill Sister), which is more than many of the marked quests offer.

    Would you have preferred I commented only on half the quests the game offers and made Fallout 3 look like it doesn't have enough quests instead?
    Because I can do that, Fallout 3 has 32 quests then, does that make the game content and quests look better now? There is still only around 13 that have more than 2 options and that might have some grey area in them. The end result doesn't change.

    A lot of people say it is best to let Oasis grow, but killing Harold like he asks you to do will not stop that growth, Bob will still keep growing by itself, will still keep releasing pollen and seeds, the other trees in oasis do not need Harold to stay alive. You can kill Harold and come back to Oasis and no tree is dead, Bob is still alive too.

    The only evil option is killing Harold with flame, that will destroy Bob and Harold in a quite cruel way. Even though the growth will not stop by that, it will just be slower than if you keep Harold alive.

    Killing the ghouls is evil, none of the Ghouls show that they are evil and deserve to be killed. In game there are only 3 people in an entire tower full of residents that think it is best to kill the ghouls that they don't know, every one else can be convinced to be accept the ghouls, including Gustavo and Tenpenny.
    Players might say it is better to kill the ghouls but that is using 4th wall breaking knowledge, because in the game there is no way a good person would see a ghoul being discriminated because of how they look like and go "Jeez, this ghoul is evil, I have to kill it so the wasteland improves in some way".
    The player might know what Roy will do to the Tenpenny residents and decide that it is good to kill him, but there is still no reason to kill the other two ghouls, since they are not in favor of killing the humans or have a part in it. So a good player that is playing a good character and using his 4th wall breaking knowledge, can just kill Roy in the sewers and then leave the other two ghouls alone. No one forces the player to kill the other two ghouls, sneak kill and escape, or just running will do this.

    About "There are many other people who disagree with some of his assertion with the moral choices and give arguments for them because it’s not clear what the correct choice is because these quests are morally grey.". Don't say there are many, say their arguments, I am always up to a good debate. Otherwise I can just say something like "But there are way more that say those are black and white and they have arguments to support that" and that would be it.

    I didn't generalized how all the builds will be a fighter with lockpick and science, I said that most characters will end up being like that.
    Also the game gives so much skill points and has the skill bobbleheads, that unless you gimp yourself on purpose, you will be able to max most or all the skills by the time you beat the game, unless you rush the main quest (so you are gimping yourself by being low level).

    This part made me laugh loudly:
    You have no idea who you're talking too, because I already explained before on the other thread how the game has means of making the guards incapacitate you without killing you, the game has a fatigue value, that once reaches 0 makes the player fall down and can't move until the fatigue raises again past 0, the game uses this in only one instance, (hint, when the Enclave uses a "Fatigue" grenade to make the player fall before being captured) but it is there and can be used easily.

    They can also easily just tell you to follow them and you do and they take you to the Overseer, we have many instances of following other NPCs in the game, like following your dad for example, the game could also allow to have a "skip scene" where the game would fade out and then fade in and you would be in front of the overseer, just like magic (like after the end of the main quest if you have Broken Steel DLC). Or it could just stop the player controls from working and then use the "skip scene" too, like in the start of the Mothership Zeta DLC.

    So, please don't talk to me about the technical limitations of this engine. Because it makes you sound like a desperate person that definitely have no idea what they are talking about. I can count by the fingers of my hand the people who know as much or more than I do about this engine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  11. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    I mean, i know the character is always 19 years old, but we are not even allowed to come up with a date of our birth. It's like Bethesda didn't want us to come up with our own backstory in this game (and Fallout 4) which is insulting because they allow you to still do it in the Elder Scrolls series.

    It's a crime to remove one of the cornerstones of the series and very well liked feature of the first two Fallout games but still do it in their own original IP. They really don't respect the Fallout license in any way.
     
  12. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    Worse. They actively DISrespect it. Retcons, killing off Harold, LOL VAMPIRES, list goes on. Also, Beth is strangely enamored with the "You come from a Vault" PC origin for no good reason. It's like they're aping the original Fallout, but not out of respect for it or anything.
     
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  13. Helloitme

    Helloitme First time out of the vault

    54
    Jun 23, 2018
    In all seriousness I agree with you that fallout 3 has more black/white decisions than I thought, but I still think that most quests (disregarding the unmarked ones) are still non linear. I also still think, regardless of your “most builds are fighter with hacking and lockpick” that I can make different characters solving things in different ways. Each character I created felt different to me and the same goes for every other fallout 3 fan. I’m not wrong for roleplaying in this game am I? Of course I’m not.
     
  14. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    It kind of irks me that something like Nuka-Cola and its caps have become synonymous with the franchise when 1. Caps were only used as the currency of the original for SPECIFIC reasons and 2. Nuka-Cola wasn't a big deal in either of the originals. Hell, you can play the entire first game without finding a single bottle.

    I remember having played hours into my very first Fallout 1 playthrough before running into the freaking Nuka-Cola Truck random encounter and going "holy crud, Nuka-Cola!" But other than that encounter Nuka-Cola isn't that big of a deal yet Bethesda beats these things to deaths for the player to go "oh look its Fallout stuff BUY OUR MERCH!!!"

    I like Fallout 3 I swear.
     
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  15. Helloitme

    Helloitme First time out of the vault

    54
    Jun 23, 2018
    I have trouble NOT liking it. It’s like no matter how many people say it sucks I can’t stop creating new characters and complete quests in a different manner. But the more time I spend on this site the more I feel wrong enjoying fallout 3 as an RPG.

    Also if I remember correctly they used money in 1 and 2 right?
     
  16. FDO

    FDO Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    Jul 4, 2018
    You don't have to force yourself to put NV before a other game. You think I worship New Vegas? A little more than a week after starting it, I somehow force myself to finish some quests and the main story, I am not even motivated to try the expansions. For overall different reasons, I don't worship Fallout 2 either, but it has in common with NV that they both represent a post apocalyptic world in evolution, with people really trying to step forward and it's interesting, it's the right move when set 80 and 120 years after Fallout 1.
    How it is shown/done sometimes is my problem, you could say, but it's another story. They remain interesting story/characters wise, in general.

    I don't want to compare with the '3', sorry I can't associate Fallout and a studio like Bethesda, and I don't intend to try it so I have occasionally listened to some videos, positives and negatives while working at my place. Currently listening to 'Manny a true nerd' or something alike.
    Both views appear to have their points, and anyone is free to have preferences.
    I think people's problem here, for most, is simply when people try to say that Bethesda made true Fallout games so far. Keep in mind, people here said without fuss that 3 is a rpg, but not a fallout game, no matter the brand.

    Might be controversial as I didn't play it, but after videos lasting from 1 to 3 hours, all with differents takes, I would tend to agree with my initial intuition, 'bethesda can't/won't try to make a true Fallout, because they have a different and wider audience'. I was already thinking as much when I heard they bought the rights, and their last move, '76', don't show anything proving otherwise.
    I woudn't even want to finish NV, or to have bought it, if it didn't have some Fallout in it. Still, if for different reasons, it's somewhere close to Fallout 2 for me. Good games, some Fallout and meaningful materials in some locations/stories, but Fallout 1 remain the only true Fallout game to date, in my opinion.

    Ah, about nostalgia, it seem we don't all have the same definition of this word. I used to like monkey island games when I was a kid, however replaying them as a adult has been difficult for more than ten years now. The end of the second episode is the only thing I still like. That's nostalgia to me, remembering something differently from what it really is, to you.
    Still loving something no matter the time passed, this is not nostalgia. So feel free to enjoy any games you want, you just don't have to try to convince people who think Fallout's concepts are being misrepresented(or worst) by Bethesda's philosophy of making games.
     
  17. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Regarding caps, I just realised that F76 is probably gonna be the origin story for the widespread use of caps in Beth's versiom of Fallout and their inability to not use proper currency (especially glaring with the Institute of 4 which uses caps despite being a so-called hyper advanced city-state).

    Even when Fallout 2 and NV presented actual currency.
     
  18. Pwener

    Pwener FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.

    536
    Aug 15, 2017
    "Money" is a general term used to describe currency, which is what caps are.

    Fallout 1 used caps due to them being near impossible to replicate. They were the currency established by the Hub's merchant council and its value was tied to the water reserve in the city.

    In Fallout 2 the currency had evolved to gold minted coins. Gold was mined in Redding and the economy was managed by the NCR government.

    Dollars begin to be printed and valued on gold between New Vegas and Fallout 2 by the NCR.

    In Fallout New Vegas the economy in California had regressed back to caps because the BoS had destroyed the NCR's gold reserve in Redding during their war which is still ongoing during the events of New Vegas.

    Why is the economy in the Capital Wasteland caps-based? NO CLUE.

    Why is the economy caps-based in Fallout 4's Not-The-Capital-Wasteland? NO CLUE.

    Oh my gosh, if they do this. IF THEY ACTUALLY COMMIT AND DO THIS...

    star_trek-3.jpg

    I mean, what are they gonna use to back caps and give them value? HOPES AND DREAMS?!?!
     
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  19. Helloitme

    Helloitme First time out of the vault

    54
    Jun 23, 2018
    Is that why the NCR money in new Vegas is so damn useless?
     
  20. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    The inexplicable prevalence of caps as currency in 3 and 4 is baffling, but it's in line with Beth's stupid approach to Fallout. Vault dwellers + bottlecaps + magic radiation + giant angry green men = Fallout to Bethesda. Bethesda doesn't UNDERSTAND the core concepts of Fallout, they're fixated on "things" found in the Fallout world that they think are Fallout-y. They don't care about the "why" at all, they just say "I'ma give these bitches some Super Mutants. Bitches love Super Mutants."