"My precious" - GFW on fans, industry and media

[Simeon]

I would love to figure out some way to get bethesda copious amounts of any form of bad press. It's the only form of leverage I can think of that would cause them to reconsider their choices regarding fallout so far.

It's too bad the gaming media is withered and gutless or fallout fans would have a perfect instrument to beat bethesda into submission with.

I can think of a few other instances in which fanbases have mobilized and gotten changes made.
Earthbound fans have bombarded the game's creators in japan with fan literature urging them to localize the game for the U.S.
Heck, even WoW players can change almost anything by whining enough, considering there's several million of them.

Another peripheral thing I have been wondering and wanting to ask was if anyone has played X-Com apocalypse.
That game had both realtime and turnbased tactical gameplay that you could toggle between before a battle depending on the tactical situation.
I thought that some variant of a similar system could work a lot better for fallout than the gimpy VATS thing.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling now.

 

[Sorrow]

Another peripheral thing I have been wondering and wanting to ask was if anyone has played X-Com apocalypse.
That game had both realtime and turnbased tactical gameplay that you could toggle between before a battle depending on the tactical situation.

I played and modded it - neither mode works really well and the game is more balanced towards RTS gameplay - the damage got dumbed down, there's no real autofire mode for weapons, AP cost of doing things in inventory got drastically decreased, priming explosives no longer costs AP, etc.
It's a mess.

 

[Simeon]

Then there was how brainsuckers were like ten billion times more dangerous in turnbased mode...
In RT mode one of your other squaddies would always just shoot it off your head.

Games always seem to end up like that when you try to please everyone.

 

[WraithUV]

Another peripheral thing I have been wondering and wanting to ask was if anyone has played X-Com apocalypse.
That game had both realtime and turnbased tactical gameplay that you could toggle between before a battle depending on the tactical situation.

I played and modded it - neither mode works really well and the game is more balanced towards RTS gameplay - the damage got dumbed down, there's no real autofire mode for weapons, AP cost of doing things in inventory got drastically decreased, priming explosives no longer costs AP, etc.
It's a mess.

Ayep.

I bought and played it -still have it in my CD tower along with Enemy Unknown and Terror From the Deep, matter of fact.

I mean, it was an X-Com game. I *had* to buy it. Mind you, it's as old as Fallout (copyright 1997 on the CD I just looked at), and that was a time when we still had some reason to believe that if a game bore a name we knew and loved, we could expect good things, rather than today's market where developers with vision and creativity are stifled by the corporate giants and their "play it safe" method of releasing tired old carbon-copy crap based on market statistics and playing to the whim of publishers.

There were good points about Apocalypse, though the bad outweighed the good IMO, and it remains (10 years later) the only X-Com game I've never once played all the way through to completion. I just get fed up long before that point and back in the CD rack it goes for another half-decade or so.

-Wraith

 

[Sorrow]

Then there was how brainsuckers were like ten billion times more dangerous in turnbased mode...
In RT mode one of your other squaddies would always just shoot it off your head.

Games always seem to end up like that when you try to please everyone.

Adding RT tactical combat mode to X-Com is a bad idea not only for balance reasons, but also because of atmosphere.
I think that suspense and constant danger were an important part of X-Com atmosphere.
Turn Based mode is better for suspense because it limits the players control over the situation - player can issue orders only in his turn and is helpless during the enemy turn.
Also there are the dreaded alien reaction shots...

On the other hand the RTwP mode is the opposite - it is about giving the player a total control over time and his soldiers which allows to pause and issue orders in every situation - it's both unrealistic and bad for suspense.

IMO the only "acceptable" (i.e. one that allows to keep both the realism and suspense) RT combat mode for a tactical game like X-Com would be Close Combat-style combat with AI controlled individual soldiers that can be given orders as an unit.

I mean, it was an X-Com game. I *had* to buy it. Mind you, it's as old as Fallout (copyright 1997 on the CD I just looked at), and that was a time when we still had some reason to believe that if a game bore a name we knew and loved, we could expect good things, rather than today's market where developers with vision and creativity are stifled by the corporate giants and their "play it safe" method of releasing tired old carbon-copy crap based on market statistics and playing to the whim of publishers.

Heh ...
Ironically, X-Com: Ufo Defence had it's literal carbon-copy - X-Com: TftD which was made because Microsoft didn't want to wait for X-Com: Apocalypse .
Anyway, X-Com finally got killed off by Microsoft - they bought the i.p. from Julian Gollop and turned it into series of shooters (Interceptor, Enforcer and Alliance).

There were good points about Apocalypse, though the bad outweighed the good IMO, and it remains (10 years later) the only X-Com game I've never once played all the way through to completion. I just get fed up long before that point and back in the CD rack it goes for another half-decade or so.

-Wraith

I never finished it too .

I liked how the X-Com setting developed - the victory of X-Com in TftD making the Earth uninhabitable.
I liked all that background information - it was pretty well thought out.
The vision of a socialist city-state with brainwashing in education, unified aesthetics, heavily armed police and mighty corporations was pretty creepy.

On the other hand, gameplay and game balance was pretty awful and a lot of features were unimplemented unfinished.
Outside the combat system and crappy damage:

-Organisations couldn't get bankrupt and could be farmed infinitely, while one successful raid meant losing an X-Com base.
-Destroying buildings of organisations meant only a pause in farming and financial losses to corporation, while destroying an X-Com base meant that player lost the building.
-Organisations had an infinite amount of vehicles, soldiers and equipment regardless of their finances.
-Organisations never use any real airforce to attack X-Com bases - only two suicidal hovercars.
-Equipment prices were an absurd - for example a vehicle mounted 40mm autocannon was cheaper than a personal machinegun.
-UFO's interiors weren't damaged by shooting down.
-Damaging UFO's interiors during tactical battles didn't affect what UFO elements were captured.
-Power Armour was presented as a light armour that is weaker than non-powered armour.
-Aliens didn't really interact with civilians or guards in the game. There were no brainsucked guards, no murdered civilians, etc.
-Civilians automagically disappeared when X-Com raided buildings and guards automagically disappeared when X-Com was hunting aliens.
etc, etc, etc.

I was trying to fix it a bit recently - I made damage, and prices make more sense, but after some time I got sucked into Soldat and Close Combat.

 

[WraithUV]

Adding RT tactical combat mode to X-Com is a bad idea not only for balance reasons, but also because of atmosphere.
I think that suspense and constant danger were an important part of X-Com atmosphere.

Couldn't agree more. That tension and suspense was a huge part of the appeal in both UFO and TftD for me. Heh, I can still remember being all nervous and trying to cautiously creep along, just to suddenly watch a soldier or two get ambushed and die from unseen enemies, or that sudden sinking feeling you'd get when in TftD, you'd suddenly spot one of those lobster guys, and just *know* that soldier is dead because his weapon won't do squat to its armor, and it's gonna claw him to death in no time. XD

Great times..

Heh ...
Ironically, X-Com: Ufo Defence had it's literal carbon-copy - X-Com: TftD which was made because Microsoft didn't want to wait for X-Com: Apocalypse .

(See below about Microprose, etc)
I actually found TftD before UFO Defense / Enemy Unknown, so I probably have more fondness for the second one than most fans. Since the two games are, as you said, extremely similar, but my first memories of the series actually come from the second, my views on those two are a bit flip-flopped, though I love 'em both even still.

Anyway, X-Com finally got killed off by Microsoft - they bought the i.p. from Julian Gollop and turned it into series of shooters (Interceptor, Enforcer and Alliance).

Er, you mean Microprose, right? Not Microsoft. I know that the Gollop brothers had made UFO which was published (but not developed) by Microprose. They then basically rushed to make TftD at the whim of the company (which had since taken on the role of developer as well) while working on Apocalypse, which they technically began second, but would obviously end up the third release.

As far as I remember, Interceptor was also under Microprose, which was then bought by Hasbro Interactive before the 5th and 6th releases (Email Games and Enforcer, respectively), which very few people even really noticed by comparison to the earlier titles.

There were plans to make two more titles as well, namely Genesis and Alliance, but both were scrapped when Hasbro closed down in around 2000.

Infogrames bought Hasbro, then Atari bought Infogrames, and finally the rights to X-Com were bought from Atari by Take Two Interactive like a couple years back.

The current (unconfirmed) rumor is that Irrational Games (which is owned by Take Two) is supposedly developing a new X-Com, and as further evidence that Take Two does in fact currently hold the rights, 2K Games (A subsidiary of Take Two) re-released TftD on Steam back in early 2007 someplace.

Heh, god what a mess. Hope I got all that right, but it should be pretty damn close even if I goofed something here or there.

I never finished it too .

I liked how the X-Com setting developed - the victory of X-Com TftD making the Earth uninhabitable.
I liked all that background information - it was pretty well thought out.
The vision of a socialist city-state with brainwashing in education, unified aesthetics, heavily armed police and mighty corporations was pretty creepy.

Yeah, that part was definitely way cool. I love a well-developed game universe, which was one of the reasons I never even bought or played Enforcer. They'd drifted so far from the original ideas that they actually had to say the entire game was set in an "alternate timeline" just to make any sense of things. Nah, not for me thanks. ;P

On the other hand, gameplay and game balance was pretty awful and a lot of features were unimplemented unfinished.
Outside the combat system and crappy damage:

[...snip...]
etc, etc, etc.

I was trying to fix it a bit recently - I made damage, and prices make more sense, but after some time I got sucked into Soldat and Close Combat.

Yeah, Apoc. just lost too much of the gritty, tense feeling for me. Could never really get into it, even though again, there were some good aspects to it and with some (heavy) modification, it could be a great game. You'll have to let me know if you ever get lured back. Helping with testing and feedback would be a worthy reason to dust that thing off again one of these days.

 

[Sorrow]

Great times..

Damn, it makes me feel old . The gaming market degraded so much that despite being 23 I'm feeling, that the best games are behind me...

I actually found TftD before UFO Defense / Enemy Unknown, so I probably have more fondness for the second one than most fans. Since the two games are, as you said, extremely similar, but my first memories of the series actually come from the second, my views on those two are a bit flip-flopped, though I love 'em both even still.

I started with TftD too . It had better graphics and IMO was a bit more dark and creepy.

Er, you mean Microprose, right?

Yes XDDDDDDDDDDDD .

I know that the Gollop brothers had made UFO which was published (but not developed) by Microprose. They then basically rushed to make TftD at the whim of the company (which had since taken on the role of developer as well) while working on Apocalypse, which they technically began second, but would obviously end up the third release.

From what I heard, TftD was made by a separate team.

Heh, god what a mess. Hope I got all that right, but it should be pretty damn close even if I goofed something here or there.

Yeah, it's a mess . Julian Gollop even told people that he doesn't like what Microsoft have done with X-Com.
Here's an example.

It's interesting how known and respected series die because someone wanted to take them in different direction .

You'll have to let me know if you ever get lured back. Helping with testing and feedback would be a worthy reason to dust that thing off again one of these days.

Ok .

 

[Brother None]

Breaking a rule by bumping this up, but apropos.

Justice, I guess.

Though it's a shame. I'm glad all the guys got to keep their jobs, though, it'd suck otherwise, but a magazine dying...shame 'coz of the tradition, but seriously, magazines don't really have a lot of raison d'etre beyond Bethesda exclusive, anymore.

 

[Wooz]

You have reached a page that is no longer in our system. Click here to go to the home page.

Hmm?

 

[Brother None]

Ok, try this one then

End of an era

/honorblade

 

[SuAside]

and many lulz were had...