NCR vs Legion vs Wild Card vs Mr House

[Bubba Zanetti]

Ok, then why did he intentionally make the strip extremely exclusive and practically devoid of poor "undesirables"... If House truly is as smart as the game implies, there's no way he couldn't have predicted the creation of a ghetto on the fringes of his gated community.

NCR's arrival likely forced his hand. His primary objective was (is, and always will be in my opinion) New Vegas, so he needed a convenient place to quickly dump the folks that wouldn't go along with him... Freeside was it.

Of course I'm just speculating, but the All or Nothing endings do state that once NCR is out of the region, House expands into Freeside. Your in-game decisions, of course, ultimately determines how he will treat the Kings--and by extension, I'm guessing--the rest of Freeside.

 

[Walpknut]

It's all explained in game. His plans were actually disrupted by both the mistiming of the Platinum chip and a major malfunction that forced him into a coma for decades. He was smart but he didn't have the resources to carry out his plans because he didn't have his securitrons ready. He is basically using the NCR to repair the Dam for him while he distracts them with his casinos (that were refurbrished by tribals he basically bullied into allying with him) and he is just waiting for the right moment to act and take the dam from the NCR just as they are at their weakest.

 

[Monco]

NCR's arrival likely forced his hand. His primary objective was (is, and always will be in my opinion) New Vegas, so he needed a convenient place to quickly dump the folks that wouldn't go along with him... Freeside was it.

Of course I'm just speculating, but the All or Nothing endings do state that once NCR is out of the region, House expands into Freeside. Your in-game decisions, of course, ultimately determines how he will treat the Kings--and by extension, I'm guessing--the rest of Freeside.

We don't really see any evidence that House ever intends to help the people of Freeside, North Vegas, Westside, and the other ghettos around New Vegas, in fact according to the Follower's ending for All or Nothing, Freeside is more chaotic then ever after House's takeover. The only way House doesn't wipe out the Kings is if you encourage them to attack NCR citizens, in other words House only wants the Kings around because they are useful to him.

It's all explained in game. His plans were actually disrupted by both the mistiming of the Platinum chip and a major malfunction that forced him into a coma for decades. He was smart but he didn't have the resources to carry out his plans because he didn't have his securitrons ready. He is basically using the NCR to repair the Dam for him while he distracts them with his casinos (that were refurbrished by tribals he basically bullied into allying with him) and he is just waiting for the right moment to act and take the dam from the NCR just as they are at their weakest.

Maybe you could make the argument that House didn't have enough securitrons to police Freeside, but House was pretty loaded he could have done something about the state of Freeside if he actually cared. With the thousands of caps he gives you for snowglobes he could've hired people to teach Freesiders to farm, he could've donated to the followers, he could've built a water pump and put one or two securitrons on it to ensure the Kings don't try to charge for it, there's any number of things he could've done to help the area around New Vegas but he didn't, so I don't see any reason why he would do anything after his takeover of the Mojave.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

We don't really see any evidence that House ever intends to help the people of Freeside, North Vegas, Westside, and the other ghettos around New Vegas...

When I say House expands, I mean he reclaims most of these areas by force. The people, if they play by House's rules, will now have protection under the Securitron army, but that's only because the robots' primary objective is to guard New Vegas... it just so happens to benefit the folks in and around the city.

By the way I should clarify that in my response to the other guy, I was using the "heightened tensions" ending between NCR and the Kings as the basis for my speculation since it's the route I usually take. House's primary concern is Vegas and nothing else, so in such an ending Freeside and other areas would remain as is, for better or for worse, while NCR customers find a safer, more convenient way into the Strip--mostly likely the McCarran monorail line which now belongs to Mr. House.

Also... I have heard about this House Followers ending--which is basically the same as the Independent ending--but I swear I don't recall ever getting one in my ending slides, even in my most recent House run which was only a few months back.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Well, House likely moves out from the Strip because he now has the means to control more territory (what with the securitron army) and that accomplishing his goals (e.g. getting people in space) are going to require a lot more resources (including workers) than he's got now. So "putting Freeside to better use" is in the cards.

I imagine that House would want to maintain amicable relations with the NCR simply because he's going to need a lot of money to pull of what he wants, and probably the best way for Vegas to make money is through tourism from NCR citizens and from selling power and fresh water to the NCR. He just doesn't want an occupying army in his territory.

 

[Monco]

Well, House likely moves out from the Strip because he now has the means to control more territory (what with the securitron army) and that accomplishing his goals (e.g. getting people in space) are going to require a lot more resources (including workers) than he's got now. So "putting Freeside to better use" is in the cards.

I imagine that House would want to maintain amicable relations with the NCR simply because he's going to need a lot of money to pull of what he wants, and probably the best way for Vegas to make money is through tourism from NCR citizens and from selling power and fresh water to the NCR. He just doesn't want an occupying army in his territory.

Yeah House explains how he wants to keep amicable relations with NCR, and wants Kimball to take the fall for NCR's failure instead of the NCR turning on house. You make a fair point, I guess House might use Freesiders for cheap labor, which would be a somewhat better situation than it is now. Still, I think arguably the majority of New Vegas citizens would have it better under NCR then House, not that either is an ideal situation of course. Actually, I quite like your idea of going independent, then negotiating joining the NCR under your terms, instead of forcibly. Honestly that's probably the best solution that could come out of the crappy situation in the Mojave.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well, House likely moves out from the Strip because he now has the means to control more territory (what with the securitron army) and that accomplishing his goals (e.g. getting people in space) are going to require a lot more resources (including workers) than he's got now. So "putting Freeside to better use" is in the cards.

I imagine that House would want to maintain amicable relations with the NCR simply because he's going to need a lot of money to pull of what he wants, and probably the best way for Vegas to make money is through tourism from NCR citizens and from selling power and fresh water to the NCR. He just doesn't want an occupying army in his territory.

Yeah House explains how he wants to keep amicable relations with NCR, and wants Kimball to take the fall for NCR's failure instead of the NCR turning on house. You make a fair point, I guess House might use Freesiders for cheap labor, which would be a somewhat better situation than it is now. Still, I think arguably the majority of New Vegas citizens would have it better under NCR then House, not that either is an ideal situation of course. Actually, I quite like your idea of going independent, then negotiating joining the NCR under your terms, instead of forcibly. Honestly that's probably the best solution that could come out of the crappy situation in the Mojave.

Independant is probably the best and worst depending on who you're playing as and what you do. If you end the game with a firefight with the NCR and you can expect little support from that quarter, possibly gaining it's negative attention. The upside is that they're too weak to go directly against the Strip, however important business and customers would leave, possibly causing a minor economic depression. However if the PC made a deal with the NCR House's style of appeasement with the NCR would generate customers.

 

[Walpknut]

House doesn't care about Freeside. He feels his efforts are better saved for when it's time to strike. From his dialogue you can more than infer that he isn't the type to make senseless selfless acts.

 

[JuankiMan]

NCR all the way with House as a close second. Yeah, the Bear has a lot of flaws, but at least they're trying to move forward and rebuild. They sometimes fail, but it's better to try and fail than not try at all. I also really like House because he's the only person in the entire Fallout universe that seems to have a long-term vision and interest in significant progress. However, his ruthlessness and penchant for brute-forcing his way through problems keep me from supporting him fully.

The Wild Card ending sounds good on paper, but paper is a flimsy thing that crumbles when wet. Much as you'd like otherwise, you lack House's centuries of planning, infrastructure and contacts, so what you're actually creating in practice is a state on anarchy, and anarchy has a nasty tendency to devolve into chaos.

The Legion for its part is a blight on the Wasteland, nothing more than a very organized band of raiders who, if victorious, would tear down everything better men have built and then, devoid of anyone else to fight, tear itself apart and leave the entire mid-west a raider-infested hellhole.

 

[Dr Fallout]

NCR all the way with House as a close second. Yeah, the Bear has a lot of flaws, but at least they're trying to move forward and rebuild. They sometimes fail, but it's better to try and fail than not try at all. I also really like House because he's the only person in the entire Fallout universe that seems to have a long-term vision and interest in significant progress. However, his ruthlessness and penchant for brute-forcing his way through problems keep me from supporting him fully.

The Wild Card ending sounds good on paper, but paper is a flimsy thing that crumbles when wet. Much as you'd like otherwise, you lack House's centuries of planning, infrastructure and contacts, so what you're actually creating in practice is a state on anarchy, and anarchy has a nasty tendency to devolve into chaos.

The Legion for its part is a blight on the Wasteland, nothing more than a very organized band of raiders who, if victorious, would tear down everything better men have built and then, devoid of anyone else to fight, tear itself apart and leave the entire mid-west a raider-infested hellhole.

The legion can thrive in the post apocalyptic society, and if Caesar tries, he could tame the bull and make it a strong society.

 

[shengar]

I'm choosing either House or Wild Card. This particular post by Tagaziel have convinced me that NCR winning will only lead them to slippery slope of becoming a fascist and militaristic society.

And how people easily dismiss Legion as a band of raiders clearly is the bad result of cutting the Legion territory from the game. Fuck Bethesda, they always find a way to screw with even the legitimate Fallout story.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

While I really liked the idealism of Caesar's Legion (that is a really well-written faction) I think siding with and working for Mr. House produces the best outcome. House seems like a true pragmatist and an excellent strategist and visionary. Not to mention he's probably the most intelligent person in the Mojave Wasteland.

He also has a lot of well written dialogue, including describing the Brotherhood of Steel as "A coterie of bug-eyed fanatics that think all pre-war technology belongs to them! Please, put them out of my misery."

The NCR while the "good" choice in a less complex RPG, is a questionable choice in this Obsidian-made game because Obsidian understands that choices have more complicated outcomes than simply "choose happy option, get happy outcome." Siding with the NCR could lead to lots of corruption and politics and quarreling - all the things Caesar claims ruined civilization in the first place.

New Vegas had some well-realized factions compared to Bethesda-made Fallouts, soo frustrating.

 

[Dr Fallout]

While I really liked the idealism of Caesar's Legion (that is a really well-written faction) I think siding with and working for Mr. House produces the best outcome. House seems like a true pragmatist and an excellent strategist and visionary. Not to mention he's probably the most intelligent person in the Mojave Wasteland.

He also has a lot of well written dialogue, including describing the Brotherhood of Steel as "A coterie of bug-eyed fanatics that think all pre-war technology belongs to them! Please, put them out of my misery."

The NCR while the "good" choice in a less complex RPG, is a questionable choice in this Obsidian-made game because Obsidian understands that choices have more complicated outcomes than simply "choose happy option, get happy outcome." Siding with the NCR could lead to lots of corruption and politics and quarreling - all the things Caesar claims ruined civilization in the first place.

New Vegas had some well-realized factions compared to Bethesda-made Fallouts, soo frustrating.

Mr House is cool sure, but he lacks any kind of caring for most of the Mojave. Under his rule not much will change to be honest.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

The NCR while the "good" choice in a less complex RPG, is a questionable choice in this Obsidian-made game because Obsidian understands that choices have more complicated outcomes than simply "choose happy option, get happy outcome." Siding with the NCR could lead to lots of corruption and politics and quarreling - all the things Caesar claims ruined civilization in the first place..

Yeah. I love how NCR has the best ending in the game, bar none, so long as you maximize all potential positive outcomes... and take things at face value.

For those paying attention and able to read between the lines, NCR's happy ending is overshadowed by the fact that none of their fundamental flaws have been addressed nor rectified. They are still beset by inflation, corruption remains rampant in both leadership and citizenry, hawkish, imperialist dispshits like Kimball and Oliver are vindicated while more competent leaders like Hanlon and Hsu diminish.

How long before the Bear drains Lake Mead and depletes the resources of the Mojave, and it's forced to once again desperately claw at its neighbors in order to survive?

Mr House is cool sure, but he lacks any kind of caring for most of the Mojave. Under his rule not much will change to be honest.

I agree.

The snowglobes and Citizen Kane references, as well as House's ending make it clear--House, for all his big talk, is not going to accomplish anything worthwhile. Like Charles Foster Kane, House is on the road to becoming exactly what he claims to oppose and will ultimately stagnate.

Under him, Vegas will remain nothing more than a life-size diorama guarded by an army of robots and re-purposed tribals sucking off of NCR until they finally go under.

 

[Toasty_one]

Mr House.

I don't like over-expansion and annexation.The Legion is what the NCR could very well become in the near future. And I'd rather be second in command, not having to do all the work and still having all the benefits. Also, it's kinda foolish to assume the Courier can replace an incredibly pragmatic man who plans 200 years in advance and has much more experience than them. The independent route has always stood out as a bit of an egotistical ending for me. Which it is.

Rather simple reason, and I could expand, but I always feel better when I go down the Mr House, good karma route.

 

[Doomfullord]

One of the beautiful things about all endings is the degree of uncertainty given to any of them and we truly don't see the far reaching, effects that happen years from now on our decisions, meaning even what we think is best could very well crap out on us. So we have to weigh risk vs reward and stability and generally personal prefernece.

NCR: The NCR are one of the more used answers from a lot of players I've seen. They are mostly a stable government that represents values that we believe in and have just as many faults as our government now. Are they the pre-war government though? Not really, they are more similar to real life America rather than fallout. Will they fall into the same traps? Not neccasarily, they most likely won't create another great war unless they grow into a true nation and have rivaling nations to compete in a cold war. Overall they have many faults and pluses, however they have a chance to negate most of their faults by gaining new vegas. More water, more resources, and a stable place to defend and run. Can they fuck up? Definitely, but being a democracy they can turn themselves around potentially, as well through some quests a few of their more corrupt poinbts can be taken of.

House: House is the most obvious solution. He calls you out personally and offers you the position. He's been debated most directly, and I agree with almost all points given. He's a variable. Stability wise he won't truly do much overall to reformat the area and he doesn't care too much on others. However he will maintain the area and keep the economy expanding potentially and things relatively fair in what he can control. I can definitely see him not doing anything major in his plans to truly mess with the area in the long run. It's the least variable of all plans.

Legion: The Legion are a wild card of themselves. It's all a bet on Ceasar's long term plans. That is most definitely his long term plans on ascension beyond him. Empires can definitely function with ascension and Ceasar will have the time, resources, and foundation to do it if he has New Vegas. However he's proven he can accomplish something and is a smart man, so it might not be as much of a gamble as it seems.

Independant: Variable at it's core and really depends on what you yourself do. However it has the least resources available for long term stability. It has even less of a likely ability to go past the courier than the next Caesar. It's built in a vacuum of powers and many gambits to even get the best ending. If done right, in the long term every faction can be forced together and a new nation can be birthed. Combine with the big MT and new technology can be brought in. However it's even more of a gamble.

Overall I personally like House the most, he has the brains, time, and resources to create a stable city state and the ability to protect it and move forward. Does he have faults, but they all do and he personally connects with me as a character rather than me neccasarily agreeing with him the most. Overall I see all endings equal, just each has faults, risks, and rewards.

 

[Dr Fallout]

House relies on the NCR too much, and as shown by the game are almost under by their own weight.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

House relies on the NCR too much, and as shown by the game are almost under by their own weight.

I think that's mostly because Vegas is smack dab in the middle of a desert, so historically Nevada's economy has been mostly driven by Tourism and resources that you can ship elsewhere (historically mining, in NV power and water). So you need tourists and buyers to survive, and it's not like there's anybody else around who is supplying tourists and who needs power and can make use of water (you can grow stuff in the California desert, not so much the Arizona desert.)

 

[Dr Fallout]

House relies on the NCR too much, and as shown by the game are almost under by their own weight.

I think that's mostly because Vegas is smack dab in the middle of a desert, so historically Nevada's economy has been mostly driven by Tourism and resources that you can ship elsewhere (historically mining, in NV power and water). So you need tourists and buyers to survive, and it's not like there's anybody else around who is supplying tourists and who needs power and can make use of water (you can grow stuff in the California desert, not so much the Arizona desert.)

Exactly, so if the NCR collapses it all breaks down, the economy collapses and Mr House is left with what? Empty Casinos?

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Exactly, so if the NCR collapses it all breaks down, the economy collapses and Mr House is left with what? Empty Casinos?

The Hoover Dam, and Lake Mead may well be the single most valuable asset remaining in the world, however. Plus, Helios One can be put into working order pretty simply even if the Courier didn't bother with it, so Vegas will have power and a good source of clean water that most in the wastes would envy.

The power alone could be leveraged into making New Vegas a manufacturing powerhouse.