NCR vs Legion vs Wild Card vs Mr House

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Robb Stark, May 24, 2015.

  1. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark Wasteland Survivor

    33
    May 12, 2015
    So which is the one you would support and why?

    I got to go NCR, if I could not pick them then Wild card (Independence) as a second option,
    the Caesar and Mr. House are both pricks and are awful or the future of the wasteland, I just can never find myself to side with them, they are just assholes

    NCR, is a democracy and wont fall if one man dies and definitely wont fall even if they loose the Mojave.
    The provide stability to the region imo and a unified post war America is better than a not unified one with lots of empires vying for control.
     
  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    It goes like this for me: Independent≥House>>>NCR> Legion

    Independent Vegas for me has to be the best ending, but very fittingly it's the most "Wild Card" ending as it can massively vary.
    Ideally, you end up with a Mojave free of overwhelming control, each town/settlement is free to rule itself as it pleases with most of the nasty gangs and warring factions cleared out of the way. Due to said independence, towns and settlements also benefit massively off of trade/travellers from the NCR and surrounding areas. New Vegas and Freeside is under the rule of the Courier, who presumably uses the tech of the Big MT and his own ingenuity to spruce things up and make New Vegas better. Alternately, an Independent Vegas could also be total anarchy, with any semblence of order totally eradicated and most towns totally obliterated. The Mojave becomes an empty dustbowl filed with wandering convicts and cazadores. Like I said, it all depends on your Courier, but the end result is what it says on the tin: An Independent Vegas.

    House is pretty much the above, but with an effectively immortal Old World genius leading New Vegas, exhibiting Objectivist/Libertarian values and using the Courier as his right-hand man. House comes with an assured security as he's got plans and calculations for pretty much everything and is practically immortal.

    The downside to House is that he can be a little eerie and in general he doesn't really care for people outside of New Vegas (Hell, even people just outside of the Strip.) and can be a bit too much of an utilitarian. Depending on the Courier, House could also be pretty authoritarian and overbearing on the people of New Vegas, but that's only really for people who are neutral/bad karma and helped solve the tensions with the Kings.

    The NCR to me are just kind of pathetic. Really the worst option tied with the Legion.

    They're overly bureaucratic, bloated, slow to action and spread thin across their territory. Seriously, they're too big for their own good. There's even dialogue in NV from an NCR scientist that explicitly states that the NCR is going to start having massive starvation issues within a decade.

    They're gonna be torn apart from the inside soon enough (If the mass starvation doesn't kill them off already, or the nuke from the Divide. Oops.), whether it be from civil unrest from increasingly authoritarian practices and raising taxes, or from not being able to control their rapidly expanding frontier. They're also massively corrupt. As we've seen in NV, many people on the frontier actually don't want the NCR in their lives, and rightly so.

    Their response for most situations:

    A) Raise taxes

    B) Raise taxes and send a letter to the Boneyard, which then gets transfered to the Hub and then to Shady Sands,where it remains at the bottom of a mail pile until some bored General throwing Brahmin baron bribe dollars into a trash bin decides to glance at it, stamp it and send in a platoon of poorly trained and equipped recruits which arrives two weeks late and just kind of stands around outside.

    C) Send in a bunch of gutless (and undefended), underequipped and underfunded aid workers with some hired scientists who literally have no idea what they're doing to go prod Old World tech with a stick until they run out of funding or the local tribe paints the walls with their intensines. Then they raise taxes.


    They like to pretend they represent democracy, and they do, but just the worst parts of it.

    "The Bear" is going to choke itself to death soon, or die of starvation.

    The Legion can certainly seem appealing with it's pure justice, organized and absolutely water-tight system of order and brutal control. A simpler, more pure life may seem like a nice option. That is until you think about the Legion for more than five seconds.

    Putting aside their obvious homophobic, anti-intellectual, mysognistic and sadistic tendencies, the Legion is an inherently flawed faction that perfectly represents the idea of "The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long".

    Ask yourself, what happens when Caesar dies, or they topple the NCR and reach the West Coast? The answer is the same: Collapse.

    The Legion is built around the idea of Caesar and the idea of a purifying crusade across the West. There's no slowing down or settling, they just move from war camp to war camp. The whole point of the Legion is this war against the West led by Caesar, what happens when both driving forces behind the Legion disappear? Collapse.

    I mean, it's a nice way to revert the West back into warring tribes and independence, but I sure as hell wouldn't support them for any other reason.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  3. Knight Captain Kerr

    Knight Captain Kerr Still Mildly Glowing

    208
    Nov 27, 2011
    NCR is my favorite faction to side with but really I'm happy with anything that isn't Caesar. I'm with Cass on this, NCR has a lot of problems (corruption, incompetence, have horrible people in their organisation like Colonel Moore) they need to sort out and hopefully the war with the Legion is the wake up call they need but I still support them. I think my Courier would make a pretty good representative for New Vegas in the Senate. After all the shit I did to help people I'd imagine the people of New Vegas would vote for me.

    House is decent. He's extremely arrogant, authoritarian and self interested though. And I'm not willing to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel just because he wants them dead. Still I felt bad killing him for NCR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
  4. The Doctor

    The Doctor Veteran of The Divide

    86
    Jun 6, 2015
    I'm...torn between House and Wild Card

    I play along with the BoS until I get Power Armor Training

    I don't suppose there's a mod that lets me spare them like I did with the Khans, or am I missing a Quest?
     
  5. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Wild card is too much of.... a wild card so I don't really take that one as the best option.

    I am between NCR and House, maybe skewed more towards NCR. They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but some of the settlements (Primm and Freeside) prosper more under the NCR than with any other route. And they can be changed within itself if you let th Pres die and withyourhand on the victory you could even run for the position yourself in the future and whip them into shape.
     
  6. The Doctor

    The Doctor Veteran of The Divide

    86
    Jun 6, 2015
    Although it's implied that after the Battle of Hoover Dam, that the Courier went back to the Big MT and ruled over it, gradually reintroducing tech to the Wasteland (Perhaps the rest of the country as well)

    I can't see the Courier taking any real position of power, but Fallout canon is flexible and can be whatever you feel fits, so in the end, it's all up to your preferences

    But whichever route you take, odds are the Legion is going to be exterminated; and if you join the Legion, you better have murdered everything else in the Wasteland
     
  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Mojave Express Employee of the Month

    Mar 16, 2013
    To be honest, the Courier always seemed like the type of character who would wander into the Mojave and it's politics, stir things up, have their adventures then wander on away into the sunset, which makes me think that House would probably be a likely Canonical ending, if it were ever outlined in Fallout 4.
     
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  8. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    The thing a lot of people overlook about House is that he's, at the VERY worst, ONLY as oppressive as any given NCR robber baron, and probably not even that. I don't support all of his decisions, and some of them have been brutal, but getting on a high horse about how much better the NCR is is just so much myopic brahmin shit I can't even wrap my head around it. There are even more iron-fisted power players among the economic and political overlords of the NCR, only they kill people and ruin lives on a much larger scale and for no better reason than their own greed or fear of competiton. NCR is run by DOZENS of petty House wannabes, only without his vision, intelligence, or high-minded aims.

    I don't agree with everything House says or does, but it's not like tossing in with him is going to dissolve the NCR or keep the Mojave from civilizing itself. I usually opt for an independent Vegas, but House is usually my second choice. Realistically speaking, he's more at your mercy than you are at his, so as long as you weren't interfering with Vegas' s profits you'd probably be able to get your way when it came to the surrounding area. And if not-- well, a little percussive maintenance and a quick software update and you can have a Yes-Man regime anyway, lickety split.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
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  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Well but there is some good people in the NCR, like Hsu and Gorobets. There is corruption but there is enough people and material to reform it with some good leadership. Altho the only direct ending to help with the NCR corruption is in independent or House, where you let Chief Hanlon live and he runs a successful campaign denouncing Oliver and Kimball's militaristic ways and their failed campaign in the Mojave, so there is that too.
     
  10. Knight Captain Kerr

    Knight Captain Kerr Still Mildly Glowing

    208
    Nov 27, 2011
    Overexpansion on the NCR's part can obviously cause problems for them but I question why they would expand beyond New Vegas, at least anytime soon. Losing will stop expansion sure, but I'm not sure if they would expand much further even if they won. Rome for example didn't expand to new territories for no reason and they stopped when it was impractical. In Fallout 2 (the canon ending anyway) they annex Redding, Reno, Vault City, places that are useful to annex, not just some 50 kilometer stretch of nothing that just happens to be close to them. There are clear advantages to taking Vegas and Hoover Dam, I'm not sure if the same can be said of the land east of the Colorado. It's a lot of Legion likely soon to be Ex-Legion territory which would be a nightmare to conquer and control and have little in the way of benefits for them. NCR expand when it's useful (not that I think such expansion is an inherently bad thing, if I did I wouldn't be Pro-NCR, it's mutually beneficial for NCR to annex these places) although maybe Kimball is stupid enough to just try expanding forever even when it's completely impractical. But the Colorado seems like a pretty decent geographical barrier with which to stop expanding.
     
  11. Caeo

    Caeo First time out of the vault

    33
    Sep 19, 2013
    I firmly believe that House is the best option, though I prefer the Wildcard option myself. House is also by far the most progressive. He says:

    House dislikes democracies because be believes that the democratic process takes too long. He finds it tedious and thinks that it stunts progress (which it does, judging by the state of the world in 2281). He also blames democracy for the Great War. This of course means he disapproves of the NCR, stating that though the Republic resembles an Old World "nation state", it is nothing but a "regurgitation of the past" (i.e. a remake of the pre-war government of the United States). He thinks that if the NCR grows in influence, the world will just repeat the Great War. He believes that democracies like the NCR are destined for destruction and views civilization as cyclic.

    If House thinks the NCR is a regurgitation of the past, then obviously he views Caesar's Legion as a regurgitation as well. Though he describes CL as an "organized society", he doesn't believe the Legion can offer the wasteland a future because it, like the NCR, is rooted in the past. House believes that he alone can offer the wasteland a future.

    Why? Because by the time House was 30 years old, he was a billionaire 30 times over; he founded a vast economic empire. House was and still is very meticulous and calculating -- he anticipated the Great War and the end of the world. He is by far the best option for the wasteland because he promises progress. He tells the Courier that if he/she retrieves the platinum chip, then he/she will not recognize New Vegas in ten years. He even believes that space travel will be possible in the near future.

    If anyone is going to fix the wasteland, it's House. The Legion and NCR are just static imitations of the past.
     
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    House still lives pretty much rooted to the past, he keeps a robot with the face of an ex girlfriend around, patterned the families of his casinos after Old World cultures and movements. He si also extremely petty, he says he has no interest in abusing others yet if you made the Kings collaborate with the NCR to better the situation in Freeside and then House wins he doesn't take it upon himself to continue their work or Collaborate with the kings but he rather exterminates them with Securitrons to make sure no NCR affiliates remain in the are with any power whatsoever.
     
  13. The Doctor

    The Doctor Veteran of The Divide

    86
    Jun 6, 2015
  14. The_Time_Master

    The_Time_Master First time out of the vault

    78
    Jun 16, 2015
    I prefer the Independent Vegas ending for several reasons.

    1) If Mr. House was such a visionary, why could he not bother with keeping his house in order? (pun intended). Benny's betrayal, the Omertas, the cannibalism at the White Glove Society, the destroyed outer ruins of Freeside and rampant homelessness there... all problems that he could have fixed if he truly cared about making New Vegas a shining beacon of the future. Instead he focused on the strip (so much garbage on the streets, seriously, he can't employ people fron Freeside to clean the strip up?
    2) The Followers of the Apocalypse had a shit ending under house. The best one you can get is under NCR, which is still a losing proposition.
    3) Killing the BoS makes sense from a House perspective, but there has to be a better way.
    4) You have a ready made police force with a great leader at your doorstep - The Kings!

    My ideal, non programmed ending is thus:

    1) I upgrade the securitorns to Mk-II software and kill House, installing Yes Man.
    2) I then clean house on the strip, killing upper management of the Omertas and also liquidating the Silver Rush.
    3) I reach out to the FotA to help with humanitarian aid with funding and resources provided by my knowledge / Big Mt.
    4) I utilize the Kings as the security force, promoting The King as my head of Strip and Freeside security.
    5) I address the local water and food problems.
    6) I evict the NCR from McClaran, Camp Golf and all Mohave forts except for the embassy in New Vegas. GTFO. And once that is complete I repair the monorail to run on time. All forts are occupided by New Vegas troops (green) fortified by securitrons and personally trained advisors(Too much to do, not enough sleep).
    7) I utilize the securitrons to patrol the outer burbs of New Vegas, and cleanse Vault 3.
    8) I broker the retreat of NCR forces from the Mojavae to beyon the Southwestern outpost, allowing NCR residents to travel freely into the Mojave (a free trade agreement).
    9) I negotiate, somehow (go go gadget SPEECH 100) a treaty with the BoS to get them to patrol I-15 to allow travellers to travel UNMOLESTED to and from Vegas in concession of Hidden Valley and the Prison, along with power provided from HELIOS ONE (I set it to the whole area and not use it as a superweapon).
    10) I single handedly slaughter all Legion presence at the Fort and Cottonwood Grove, and issue a kill on sight order to my securitrons tasked with patrolling the Mojave, along with a Legion bounty within borders.
    11) I rebuild Nipton with a securiton regiment.
    12) I send several securitrons to Novak to preserve the residents.
    13) I go back to the Sierra Madre to figure out how the holographic weaponry works to utilize in my wasteland. :smile:

    There's a lot of work for me to do, a lot of legion for me to kill before I can rest at the Lucky 38.
     
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  15. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Gyro Captain

    304
    Dec 11, 2013
    Many of my couriers wind up going with the Wild Card route, although for very different reasons, depending on the character:

    My altruistic idealists can't in good conscience support any of the factions, and so they wind up supporting an Independent Vegas, one without gods or masters. This type of courier explicitly or implicitly endorses an anarchist philosophy in line with the values of the Followers of the Apocalypse. They will most likely either work as a member of the Followers or as a wandering do-gooder after the dust settles.

    The most ambitious of my mercenary couriers eventually seek to rule the Mojave, so they expertly play each of the factions off of each other while scheming with Yes Man to seize Hoover Dam and the Strip for themselves. These characters put their self interest above all else, and will rule from the Lucky 38 as a warlord with varying degrees of benevolence.

    The third and most unpredictable Wild Card courier is not so much a human being as a force of nature, an agent of chaos that just wants to watch the world burn. They gleefully cut a swath of terror across the Mojave that destroys all three factions. They will disappear to parts unknown after the Battle at Hoover Dam, but their name will live on as a terrifying legend of the Wasteland, one that overshadows the Burned Man in ominousness.
     
  16. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    NCR knows how to run large scale bureaucracy and logistics. Give them full control of Hoover Dam, and all of New Vegas as an income bonus, and I don't see any immediate reasons why they should muck it up. Caesar's Legion will run out of steam, especially considering whatever tiny population they can possibly control is used for slavery and war, it's not a good long term deal.

    So, yeah, I side with NCR, the closest thing to an actually functioning country, with all the necesary infrastructure as well as social structures intact
     
  17. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Gyro Captain

    304
    Dec 11, 2013
    I agree with this - House at least has some vision for the future. The NCR, as far as I can tell, just want to line their pockets under the pretense of getting the US back up and running like nothing ever happened. That's hardly inspirational. I don't understand why people seem to side with NCR by default; House has gone out of his way to keep alive, after all, and purely from the view of self interest, he's likely to provide you with much better rewards than the NCR once he's taken control...
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  18. ChildServices

    ChildServices Banned

    319
    May 22, 2015
    I side with the NCR because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guG9cVs3ms4
     
  19. LordOfTheWasteland

    LordOfTheWasteland First time out of the vault

    9
    Oct 6, 2015
    I would have to go this way:

    Independence > House > NCR > Legion

    If i could just pick one i would have to go in the independent way, and i would go with the Brotherhood of Steel as my begining of a real future for humany. But if for instance i could put put myself in that Post Apocaliptic world, like the The Courier or the Lone Wanderer, i would find a way to put myself in the head of the BoS, but just and only by non violent ways, i would have to change, or yet better, eliminate the "Codex", let new recruits join the brotherhood, but just people that is smart and strong enough to survive in this new world. Maybe i wouldn't have an army as big as the one the NCR has, but it would be enough to keep people away. Quality over quantity. Once all of this is done, and have enough firepower to defend ourselfs, i would kill every single raider and troblemaker that is one hundred yards near our main base/chapter, i would go myself, and other 5 Paladins to wipe out every single threath to the brotherhood, every single building and cave would be cleaned from anything that i would consider evil; by the words or by the guns... only by guns if it's evil, it doesn't matter, that will happen because i'm in there. It doesn't matter if it is a human, a ghoul, a supermutand, or any agressive folk that comes in our perimeter, this may take 2 years too far, in a real life time. Afther this is done we can make the rest of the people out there work in farms, but only volunteers (not part of the brotherhood, but they have a home, food, work and security), from and outside of the brotherhood, they wouldn't be protected by our elite army but by robots, some brotherhood knights and initiates and maybe some Paladins in Power Armor, yet the only serious threath to them are mutated animals, since every agressive human near is already dead.

    Afther this is done i would send the brotherhood knights and scribes to search in every single building that may have pre war technology or schematics, while the paladins search for every single weapon out there, we don't want any citizen caŕrying guns and making a rebelion, weapons are prohibed by non-brotherhood members, we already gave them food, a work, clean wather, security, etc, they don't need guns, they can leave with their guns as long as they don't step BoS's land (Yeah, kind of tyrand, but this isn't a democracy, this is the future). Any serious crime would be punished by dead. And once our scouts became aware of the existence of the Big Mountain... that would be our fortress and, the last hope to humanity itself. Once that we kept control of Big Mt, the posibilities are endless to the brotherhood. We would have the best soldiers out there, having at least 900 Paladins in power armor, and diferent kinds of guns, being the best trained, armored, and equiped badasses "soldiers", with me as their leader, like that wasn't enought... That without counting the Knights witch are more. We would have armies of robots and cyborgs, we would improve our agriculture, and make our citizens live even better than the actual US (unless you're rich or something, but forget about capitalism or any other sort of government you know), you have to work, we are not the Followers of the Apocalipse who are going to here and there giving knowledge to everyone, they basically created The Legion even if that wasn's their intentions, just a bunch of optimist people. We would search knowledge and build elite schools, and military academies (all of this ouside Big Mt, that place is only and ONLY for the "Elite part of the brotherhood and scientists (BoS scribes, The Think Tank, Dr. Mobius)". I would try to search peace with the NCR, they are not so bad, just too ambitious and selfish, they are just living by the Pre-War tech, they don't look for a real future. But still, i want peace with them, and if i'm lucky and make some plans, i would try to abduct, just like they did with the Rangers. But if not it's ok, we can work together, just stay out of our land and resourses. And if some stubborn old politician want a piece of what the BoS is making with their own hands, all of the NCR's Army would be wiped out before a year. You can be sure of that. After that all of this is settled, we would have only progress, thinking only in the progress the Big Mountain has, we would make endless experiments of all sort, we would have factories near (not inside) the Big Mountain, i would make so much for the world... that is too much to say, i'm already tired of writing. But i can say that if any other group like The Enclave or The Legion is stupid enough like to mess with the BoS (they don't even know of the existence of the Big Mt LOL), their leaders will end up with a piece of steel in their asses, literally.
     
  20. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    I got a soft spot for the NCR, but it is very likely just nostalgia, and I would not be surprised if that was predicted by the devs, as in, they would assume that a big proportion of players would be nostalgically loyal towards NCR, and not need much further reasons to support them.

    I've noticed before, that especially new players have a much more impartial relation to the NCR, and have an easyer time seeing them as "just another invader"

    I see NCR as a decent effort. Independent city states, like New Vegas could have been, they won't last too long. As time goes by, a small city state won't be able to muster up enough manpower to keep itself defended, it will have to accept absorption into a bigger state at some point or other.
    Letting NCR annex it is "just as well", in my opinion.

    It's interesting to see other points of view about it though

    So if I am to rank them
    NCR
    Indep. NV
    House
    Legion (seriously, a momentum-based slave state? Hats off for ambition, but there is no realism in this plan)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015