New Vegas a bit rewritten and a bit redesigned

[CaptJ]

That's... hmm, that's hard. If you assassinate the president the NCR will hate you. If you then assassinate Caesar (why would you?) that would make the Legion hate you... I mean, you can just make it so that unless you actively work for the group, if they're in a low relation they'll ignore positive things that are caused by messing around with their enemy.

There is appeal to being hated by everyone to the extent that it unites everyone under their hatred. Also even if you don't plan to take the option, the option being arbitrarily removed is infuriating. The makers of Mass Effect (still fuck those guys) said that vast majority players choose the Paragon option but they still kept the Renegade option because having that option is important.

Let me ask you. Let's just imagine that you support the Legion in this one playthrough (shocking, I know). However you for some reason found out that Caesar is unkillable until the Second Battle at Hoover Dam just like how Ulfric Stormcloak was unkillable unless you progress the Legion side of the civil war quest. Will that knowledge upset you?

BTW: I was thinking about how one of the solutions to the Yes-Man end game was to blow up the dam's generator making the NCR lose interest of the dam. I was thinking of having an ending with the Wild Wasteland Trait where the ending narration in the slides are replaced with incoherent swearing.

 

[Dr Fallout]

BTW: I was thinking about how one of the solutions to the Yes-Man end game was to blow up the dam's generator making the NCR lose interest of the dam. I was thinking of having an ending with the Wild Wasteland Trait where the ending narration in the slides are replaced with incoherent swearing.

Basically have everything narrated by President Kimball or General Oliver if they survive and the damn is destroyed and the NCR are kicked out.

Let me ask you. Let's just imagine that you support the Legion in this one playthrough (shocking, I know). However you for some reason found out that Caesar is unkillable until the Second Battle at Hoover Dam just like how Ulfric Stormcloak was unkillable unless you progress the Legion side of the civil war quest. Will that knowledge upset you?

Yes frankly. Never get rid of player choice, especially if they change sides (I had to when one of the Legion missions was bugged and I couldn't complete it).

 

[CaptJ]

Yes frankly. Never get rid of player choice, especially if they change sides (I had to when one of the Legion missions was bugged and I couldn't complete it).

As you should because fuck that. Honestly as much as don't give a shit about the main quest in Skyrim, I care even less about the civil war. It was like "Why do you assholes need my help? You can't die!". When I think Nuka World, I'm reminded of two FO:NV DLCs, Dead Money and Old World Blues. Dead Money had the bomb collars and Old World Blues had that pacifist wave. Nuka-World had none of that which was fine except that you paid money specifically for that quest line. You get tricked into a trap, killed the previous over boss, and they expect you join them as their new upper management staff. You would only put up with this to get your money's worth. Despite what @CT Phipps thinks, humanizing a raider is like humanizing a tapeworm.

Basically have everything narrated by President Kimball or General Oliver if they survive and the damn is destroyed and the NCR are kicked out.

They aren't kicked out. They left. That was the only available for the independent ending if the robots were destroyed.

BTW: I want to add something tangentially related. I dislike Day of the Tentacle and prefer Maniac Mansion. While I have many reasons for disliking it, I want to point out one of things that I disliked, "Putting the hamster in the microwave." DotT implied that the hamster being placed in the microwave during MM was canon and DotT made doing it again a mandatory solution to a puzzle. Putting the hamster in the microwave was only funny because you didn't have to do it and it was a pointless act of cruelty. That was what I was going for in that "blow up the dam" ending.

 

[naossano]

BTW: I was thinking about how one of the solutions to the Yes-Man end game was to blow up the dam's generator making the NCR lose interest of the dam.

I thought this was already in the game.

 

[CaptJ]

I thought this was already in the game.

I was just thinking about how adding an alternate slide if the player has the Wild Wasteland trait would be cool just like the alternate slide in Lonesome Road after nuking the NCR (you know the one).

 

[Dr Fallout]

As you should because fuck that. Honestly as much as don't give a shit about the main quest in Skyrim, I care even less about the civil war. It was like "Why do you assholes need my help? You can't die!". When I think Nuka World, I'm reminded of two FO:NV DLCs, Dead Money and Old World Blues. Dead Money had the bomb collars and Old World Blues had that pacifist wave. Nuka-World had none of that which was fine except that you paid money specifically for that quest line. You get tricked into a trap, killed the previous over boss, and they expect you join them as their new upper management staff. You would only put up with this to get your money's worth. Despite what @CT Phipps thinks, humanizing a raider is like humanizing a tapeworm.

Actually, I disliked that (well, they made thematic sense but... ehh, the bomb collars were okay) and would rather have the Zion method. You can screw up the main quest yet there's a hard and long journey out of there.

 

[CaptJ]

Actually, I disliked that (well, they made thematic sense but... ehh, the bomb collars were okay) and would rather have the Zion method. You can screw up the main quest yet there's a hard and long journey out of there.

The differences with that in Honest Hearts is that you don't have cooperate with the guys that tried to kill you or got you into the mess in the first place. Also in OWB, fighting the Think Tank too early isn't going to help you get your organs back so cooperating with them makes that much sense. In Nuka-World, siding with the raiders just makes you look like a chump. You would think that they would tempt the player with the fact that it is basically Money-World. You would think that somebody, anybody, would have done something about that place. It is in the goddamn radio. If the games want me to cooperate, it give a good reason. The devs should remember that murder is the default solution to a lot of problems so there should be a damn good reason not to do it. Why can't these kind of games have something like needing to keep a guy alive to get a password out of them instead of just leaving the password in a piece of paper in their corpse. There are so many ways to reach Mr. House what is wrong with just letting Benny keep this ace in the hole?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Forcing a player to cooperate shouldn't be a cheap plot point (like in OWB) but a very important part of the plot (like Dead Money). There's nothing really stopping you from going around getting the objects and then going to attack Mobius. Hell, they should allow you to leave without your brain (as it does jackshit) except it should be just as difficult. Maybe a dangerous mountain trek or something?

 

[CaptJ]

Hell, they should allow you to leave without your brain (as it does jackshit) except it should be just as difficult.

You are forgetting about the barrier that keep the Think Tank and Courier in Big MT.

There's nothing really stopping you from going around getting the objects and then going to attack Mobius.

How the hell are you suppose to figure that out yourself?

 

[Dr Fallout]

You are forgetting about the barrier that keep the Think Tank and Courier in Big MT.

I know, there should be the ability to turn it off even if you kill the think tank, maybe in a heavily guarded outpost or something.

How the hell are you suppose to figure that out yourself?

Notes, computer terminals, the rants of Mobius or just change it alltogether.

 

[CaptJ]

I know, there should be the ability to turn it off even if you kill the think tank, maybe in a heavily guarded outpost or something.

Maybe a "I killed the Think Tank, Mr. Mobius. Can you turn off the barrier?". Look I get that the Pacifist Wave is stupid but it is the kind of stupid that is inline with the rest of the DLC. Making a character invulnerable for no real reason is like changing the rules a game after someone has won. Bethesda does this kind of stuff a lot. The makers of Deus Ex: Human Revolution said that they were okay with players throwing a barrel in a mine field blow up all the mines even if they didn't intended that. That is what people call Emergent Gameplay. Scribblenauts wanted me to get a cat down the roof (take note the cat disappears when it dies so no Homer Simpsoning it) so I set the house on fire.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Despite what @CT Phipps thinks, humanizing a raider is like humanizing a tapeworm.

I agree if you mean Bethesda's silly dressed psycho raiders. I felt more for the Great Khans than I ever did a Fallout 4 character.

I think that unless there's a good explanation as to why a character cant be killed it shouldn't be in a game like this . The Pacification Field might be daft but as @CaptJ said it fits with the theme of the DLC, where as making Ulfric Stormcloak invincible with no explanation is stupid. How can the most powerful Dragonborn slay countless dragons and other powerful creatures but not able to kill one idiot Nord?

 

[CaptJ]

I agree if you mean Bethesda's silly dressed psycho raiders. I felt more for the Great Khans than I ever did a Fallout 4 character.

The Great Khans stop being a raider faction after FO2.

How can the most powerful Dragonborn slay countless dragons and other powerful creatures but not able to kill one idiot Nord?

Bethesda couldn't even just limit it to character relevant to the main quest and children. I can not give a shit about the Dark Brotherhood after I enter their ugly hideout.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

The Great Khans stop being a raider faction after FO2.

They're still raiders, they just aren't as hostile as other groups like Vipers and Fiends.

Bethesda couldn't even just limit it to character relevant to the main quest and children. I can not give a shit about the Dark Brotherhood after I enter their ugly hideout.

That's fine they all die anyway, apart from that annoying vampire child and fantasy Three Dog (if you join).

 

[Dr Fallout]

They're still raiders, they just aren't as hostile as other groups like Vipers and Fiends.

But they're not raiders in Fallout New Vegas... they don't raid anyone. They just make drugs.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

But they're not raiders in Fallout New Vegas... they don't raid anyone. They just make drugs.

They are more focused on making and selling drugs, but they still raid ocassionally.

Hah! The Great Khans will not be slaves. Caesar himself has promised us the land from here to the Colorado and the freedom to raid as we see fit.

They're scum. Lazy, trumped-up Raiders. Most of the time, they're drunk or high, and when they're not shooting chems, they're selling them.

But my point was that raiders can be humanised if done correctly, as opposed to Bethesda's attempts with Nuka World.

 

[Dr Fallout]

They are more focused on making and selling drugs, but they still raid ocassionally.

say they're raiders=/=raid occasionally.

Sorry, but unless they actually raid they're not raiders. They might become raiders later on (assuming Caesar keeps his promise) but when we see them in New Vegas, they are not raiders.

 

[naossano]

They are still raiders that are regrouping after they suffered great losses at bitter spring, which happened because they were raiding way too much for NCR taste.

And in Fallout 1 & Fallout 2, they were more layered than the typical raider, by making sure the communities they were raiding wouldn't sustain too much damage, so they would still be able to raid them again in the future. And in Fallout 2, many of vault 15 folks weren't even aware they were raiders, as they kept their part of the bargain, to not attract unwanted attention.

 

[Dr Fallout]

They are still raiders that are regrouping after they suffered great losses at bitter spring, which happened because they were raiding way too much for NCR taste.

That may be, but groups can change. The Great Khans in Fallout New Vegas are not raiders. They're not regrouping, as they've done barely anything to raid or continue being raiders.

 

[CaptJ]

They are still raiders that are regrouping after they suffered great losses at bitter spring, which happened because they were raiding way too much for NCR taste.

And in Fallout 1 & Fallout 2, they were more layered than the typical raider, by making sure the communities they were raiding wouldn't sustain too much damage, so they would still be able to raid them the next time. And in Fallout 2, many of vault 15 folks weren't even aware they were raiders, as they kept their part of the bargain, to not attract unwanted attention.

The Khans in FO2 were parasitic thieves and they paid for the settlers silence with food which the settlers thought came from the vault.

say they're raiders=/=raid occasionally.

Sorry, but unless they actually raid they're not raiders. They might become raiders later on (assuming Caesar keeps his promise) but when we see them in New Vegas, they are not raiders.

Yes, raiders don't grow corn. The Legion does some raiding (it is more of pillaging but whatever) but that isn't their primary source of food. I can assemble a bookshelf but that doesn't make me a carpenter. Everybody writes but you don't call them a writer. Raiders have no other means of survival other than stealing. That is why I call them parasites. When there is no one to steal from, they starve. Maybe you can call people by what they are doing while they are doing the act. The Legion has currency because Caesar is playing the long game. The NCR, the Khans, and the Vipers all came from the same vault. One is the biggest army in the continent, one is a dying tribe of drug dealers, and another is an irrelevant raider group.