New Vegas a bit rewritten and a bit redesigned

Except the Khans don't steal. They buy goods from the sales they make with their drugs. They're not raiders, they may seem nostalgic about it but they've transitioned to a more pathetic existence.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Except the Khans don't steal. They buy goods from the sales they make with their drugs. They're not raiders, they may seem nostalgic about it but they've transitioned to a more pathetic existence.
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At least, that led them to more useful skills. That ending where they head north shows that they made a positive change.
 
The defininition of raiders i found were quite short, but they don't tell that raiding is ttheir only mean of survival. Hell, there are even mentions of paid raiders to attack the enemies villages during the feudal wars. Their mean of survival was the pay, not just the plunder.And those guys were probably paid to actually fight in some other conflicts.

Also, Bitter Spring massacre happened specifically because they were raiding toomuch. They are licking their wounds after this massacre, but they are planning to strike back and reclaim their *right* to do raiding, by allying themselves with the legion and the fiends. The fact they don't raid in front of you dont"t make them less raiders. They are just a billion more pragmatic than many other groups.
 
Just because they used to raid in the past means nothing.
Just because they say they WANT to raid in the future means nothing.
Nazi Germany having a democratic past and claiming to be a democracy or wanting to be a democracy does not make them a democracy.
So unless the Great Khans raid and show clear signs of going back to raiding (that aren't just vague promises, from what we see they are doing nothing to prepare for raiding, they just manufacture and sell drugs) they are not raiders.
naossano said:
And those guys were probably paid to actually fight in some other conflicts.
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ASSUMPTION
 
The Karma system needs some kind of Threshold mechanic and for Good and Bad to work parallel to each other instead of being a linear scale between the two, have more Karma titles for mixed Karma and even itnroduce some Karma perks that get unlocked (wether you want it or not) depending on actions taken on quests. Also remove good karma from killing, that's kind of dumb.
 
Walpknut said:
The Karma system needs some kind of Threshold mechanic and for Good and Bad to work parallel to each other instead of being a linear scale between the two, have more Karma titles for mixed Karma and even itnroduce some Karma perks that get unlocked (wether you want it or not) depending on actions taken on quests. Also remove good karma from killing, that's kind of dumb.
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It would be great if there were more (or any) nonlethal options. I usually play as a "good" character, but it doesn't really fit when your only option for dealing with raiders is to massacre them or run away. Powder Gangers, for example, aren't supposed to be crazy. If they see a power-armoured tank coming towards them with a Gauss Rifle, and all they have is a Single Shotgun, they should either run like hell or surrender. And you should lose karma for killing a surrendered or fleeing enemy.
 
peadar87 said:
It would be great if there were more (or any) nonlethal options. I usually play as a "good" character, but it doesn't really fit when your only option for dealing with raiders is to massacre them or run away. Powder Gangers, for example, aren't supposed to be crazy. If they see a power-armoured tank coming towards them with a Gauss Rifle, and all they have is a Single Shotgun, they should either run like hell or surrender. And you should lose karma for killing a surrendered or fleeing enemy.
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I don't think they should surrender but they should be very wary and very reluctant to try anything. Kind of like Far Cry 2's ceasefire zones; at low reputation they'll shove you out the way and treat you like shit. At high reputation they'll be cautious and respectful towards you.
 
Hostile NPCs should have a Tolerance radio that is affected by both reputation, Karma and equipment.
 
peadar87 said:
It would be great if there were more (or any) nonlethal options. I usually play as a "good" character, but it doesn't really fit when your only option for dealing with raiders is to massacre them or run away. Powder Gangers, for example, aren't supposed to be crazy. If they see a power-armoured tank coming towards them with a Gauss Rifle, and all they have is a Single Shotgun, they should either run like hell or surrender. And you should lose karma for killing a surrendered or fleeing enemy.
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I remember fighting a bunch of bandits in Skyrim. One of them beg for his life. I stood there until he fully recovered and he started attacking me again. In Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, some enemies would beg for their life and sparing them would sometimes lead to them joining your party.

Walpknut said:
Hostile NPCs should have a Tolerance radio that is affected by both reputation, Karma and equipment.
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You mean Tolerance ratio, right? And what do you mean by that? You mean how close that you have to be before they start attacking? Some better AI in general wouldn't hurt.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Just because they used to raid in the past means nothing.
Just because they say they WANT to raid in the future means nothing.
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This is their fucking identity. If you think it means nothing, then i don't see the point of discussing.


If there is no fire for an entire week, i don't stop being part of the fire brigade.
 
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naossano said:
This is their fucking identity. If you think it means nothing, then i don't see the point of discussing.


If there is no fire for an entire week, i don't stop being part of the fire brigade.
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The whole Khans quest line is about their identity crisis and the comics All Roads implies that they have some kind of code of conduct.
 
CaptJ said:
I remember fighting a bunch of bandits in Skyrim. One of them beg for his life. I stood there until he fully recovered and he started attacking me again. In Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, some enemies would beg for their life and sparing them would sometimes lead to them joining your party.


You mean Tolerance ratio, right? And what do you mean by that? You mean how close that you have to be before they start attacking? Some better AI in general wouldn't hurt.
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I meant Radius, like an area around them. The distance before they start attacking would be variable, dependant on their faction, on your CHARISMA, reputation and Karma and with your combined combat might compared to theirs. Maybe even have some Cowering behaviors on the lower level enemies, where they would flee from you after you get powerful enough.
 
naossano said:
If there is no fire for an entire week, i don't stop being part of the fire brigade.
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So? They've stopped raiding and no longer get any income or wealth from it. They may harken to the good old days as raiders, but the truth is, they're drug manufacturers. They became the masters of the New Vegas drug trade and it's mentioned that most drugs found were made by them.
 
CaptJ said:
As you should because fuck that. Honestly as much as don't give a shit about the main quest in Skyrim, I care even less about the civil war. It was like "Why do you assholes need my help? You can't die!". When I think Nuka World, I'm reminded of two FO:NV DLCs, Dead Money and Old World Blues. Dead Money had the bomb collars and Old World Blues had that pacifist wave. Nuka-World had none of that which was fine except that you paid money specifically for that quest line. You get tricked into a trap, killed the previous over boss, and they expect you join them as their new upper management staff. You would only put up with this to get your money's worth. Despite what @CT Phipps thinks, humanizing a raider is like humanizing a tapeworm.
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I'm definitely of the mind Nuka World has an unfinished quality despite how much I adored it. I think the questline needed the following adjustments:

* The option of "going undercover" as the Raider Boss for your faction
* The option of calling in your faction to attack Nuka World
* Retaking the park for the Traders
* Freeing the slaves once you've "won" Nuka World.
 
CT Phipps said:
The option of "going undercover" as the Raider Boss for your faction
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This isn't some League of Doom. Why would they welcome you just because you are also on the side of evil? It's their territory.
CT Phipps said:
* Retaking the park for the Traders
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The game already lets you do that by killing all of the leaders of the raider factions and traders magically overpower the raiders.
CT Phipps said:
* Freeing the slaves once you've "won" Nuka World.
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Doesn't doing the previous thing accomplishes that?

Nuka-World relies on a lot of "for some reason"s. I would have just scrap out the raiders.
 
CaptJ said:
Nuka-World relies on a lot of "for some reason"s. I would have just scrap out the raiders.
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Thank you, some of us have wanted to be Lord Humungous for some time.

I'm happy to be a "gray morality" raider in Nuka World but would never join Caesar's Legion.
 
New Vegas would've benefited from more radiant quests and environmental storytelling.
And I also didn't feel attached to my character, a voice would've been nice.
 
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