NFL 2009

Holy shit was that game ever shitty. Too bad the Steelers basically got shut out of the playoffs now.

On the other hand, this is good for the Bucs. Now we're only contending with the Rams for the first overall draft pick! :(
 
lol Browns!
The triumphant return of the Mangenius!

Supposedly, Tomlin is on the hotseat now, even before this loss.

Sander said:
Holy shit was that game ever shitty. Too bad the Steelers basically got shut out of the playoffs now.
What's bad about it? I don't want a sloppy team like that in the playoffs. Steelers suck without Polamalu, can't run for shit, and I don't know if it's Ben not knowing when to get rid of the rock, or the O-line, but they have issues.

I'd rather see what Cincy can do out of that division.
Cincy, the team that is only just recovering to form from the Kimo Von Olhoffen hit that ended a playoff run that was the most promising since Boomer Esiason and Icky Woods. The same hit, along with some other 'fortuitous' events (the Seachicken fans can elucidate us on the finer details of that) that led the Steelers to SB gold.

On the other hand, this is good for the Bucs. Now we're only contending with the Rams for the first overall draft pick! :(
My sources tell me that Morris is in trouble, and they are also talking to Dungy about a Parcells-type GM/Football Ops role.

first overall draft pick isn't necessarily a good thing. don't buy the hype, dawg.
It can be a real curse depending on the draft class. Looking at the Heisman finalists, they all have pretty underwhelming stats compared to previous years. I have a feeling this may be like last year with a weak top field, but maybe stronger in mid-level latter round talent. Bradford, Tebow, McCoy - they look "pretty good", not 1st pick good. Mark Ingram is OK, not a #1. Suh looks like a beast, but I never heard of him before that conf. title game.

I really like CJ Spiller out of Clemson though - no way as a #1 though.

Your #1 needs to be a franchise cornerstone, whether a QB like Manning, an O-Lineman like Boselli, a HB like Bo Jackson etc. etc. If there's nobody like that, you're better of trading down. And even if you got that guy, there's no guarantee he'll ever live up to it - Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Kijana Carter etc.

What do the Bucs need (most)?
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Supposedly, Tomlin is on the hotseat now, even before this loss.

yeah? well he better stay there for at least one more fucking game.

I'd rather see what Cincy can do out of that division.

agreed. they're one of the teams i'll be cheering for if my Pack falls out of the race. gotta love a team that not only comes from nowhere but proves they're not a complete fluke (same reason i'm liking the Cards this year more than last).
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
What's bad about it? I don't want a sloppy team like that in the playoffs. Steelers suck without Polamalu, can't run for shit, and I don't know if it's Ben not knowing when to get rid of the rock, or the O-line, but they have issues.

I'd rather see what Cincy can do out of that division.
Cincy, the team that is only just recovering to form from the Kimo Von Olhoffen hit that ended a playoff run that was the most promising since Boomer Esiason and Icky Woods. The same hit, along with some other 'fortuitous' events (the Seachicken fans can elucidate us on the finer details of that) that led the Steelers to SB gold.
Oh sure, I'd much rather see Cincy too. It's bad because it lowers competitiveness and excitement.

Cimmerian Nights said:
My sources tell me that Morris is in trouble, and they are also talking to Dungy about a Parcells-type GM/Football Ops role.
You have sources?
It doesn't take much to see that a coach that goes 1-11 and fires both his coordinators during the year is in trouble.

The first thing I thought when I saw Dungy saying he'd been contacted by an NFL team that wasn't the Bills was "Hey Bucs".

He'd be an improvement as a coach, but he keeps saying he doesn't want to do that. I don't know if he'd be an improvement as a front-office man over Mark Dominik, though, since I have no idea what kind of GM he'd be. And given that both Morris and Dominik have only had one year it's not that likely that they'll both be replaced that quickly. Of course, things can move fast if the team doesn't show improvement, but there has been a lot of improvement over the last couple of games.

Cimmerian Nights said:
Twinkie said:
first overall draft pick isn't necessarily a good thing. don't buy the hype, dawg.
It can be a real curse depending on the draft class. Looking at the Heisman finalists, they all have pretty underwhelming stats compared to previous years. I have a feeling this may be like last year with a weak top field, but maybe stronger in mid-level latter round talent. Bradford, Tebow, McCoy - they look "pretty good", not 1st pick good. Mark Ingram is OK, not a #1. Suh looks like a beast, but I never heard of him before that conf. title game.

I really like CJ Spiller out of Clemson though - no way as a #1 though.

Your #1 needs to be a franchise cornerstone, whether a QB like Manning, an O-Lineman like Boselli, a HB like Bo Jackson etc. etc. If there's nobody like that, you're better of trading down. And even if you got that guy, there's no guarantee he'll ever live up to it - Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Kijana Carter etc.

What do the Bucs need (most)?
Defense, and a good DT specifically. It's pretty clear that if they get in a position to do so, they'll take Suh, and that's why the 1st overall pick is good this year, as Suh is the clear #1.

In fact, a first overall pick is only good when there is a clear #1, as that means you can either get a lot of value out of it by trading down if you don't want the player, or you can grab a star player.
Yes, the problem would be salary. But the Bucs have the most cap space of any team in the league. If there's any team that wouldn't be hurt too badly by the cap loss, it would be the Bucs.
Hell, next year will be uncapped anyway.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
But if Toby Gerhart doesn't win I'm playing the race card on anti-white HB bias. How about some love for Stanford too, huh?

The Heisman is what we thought it was. You wanna crown Ingram's ass? THEN CROWN HIM!

Cimmerian Nights said:
What's bad about it? I don't want a sloppy team like that in the playoffs. Steelers suck without Polamalu, can't run for shit, and I don't know if it's Ben not knowing when to get rid of the rock, or the O-line, but they have issues.

Hell, by your mantrum of losses being good preparation for the play-offs, Steelers must be HELLA READY for the playoffs now. Patriots too.

Cimmerian Nights said:
The same hit, along with some other 'fortuitous' events (the Seachicken fans can elucidate us on the finer details of that) that led the Steelers to SB gold.

We wuz robbed :(

Cimmerian Nights said:
It can be a real curse depending on the draft class. Looking at the Heisman finalists, they all have pretty underwhelming stats compared to previous years. I have a feeling this may be like last year with a weak top field, but maybe stronger in mid-level latter round talent.

Not as bad as last year's. I mean, when a team with many needs like the Seahawks picks a non-impact position as LB at 4th overall, you know the top of the class is shit.

Cimmerian Nights said:
What do the Bucs need (most)?

What don't they need? They could use a new franchise RB, since the wheels long since came off Caddy, and Ward is - predictably - not working out. They should also look at their secondary, in particular since Ronde might not last that much longer, but they can always pick a developmental player for that.

But yeah, as S said, run D is the big need, so Suh to the Bucs as 1st or 2nd overall seems to make sense right now. But it's so pointless to try to project next year's draft at this point.

Cimm said:
If there's nobody like that, you're better of trading down.

Whereto, though? Who is going to trade up to 1st overall in this draft era, unless the FO has a crush on a player (a la Eli Manning).

UniversalWolf said:
I think Ted Thompson deserves credit for drafting Jermichael Finley and Raji, and making the Clay Mattews trade. All those moves seem to be working out.

Really? Apart from being injured and moving around the line to be slotted into any position except the one he was purportedly drafted for (which, incidentally, I kind of called, sorta), and now talking smack before his first start as an actual nose tackle, what exactly has Raji done for the Pack?

Matthews was and is awesome. He and Cushing make this LB class look friggin' awesome.
 
Brother None said:
what exactly has Raji done for the Pack?

collapsing the pocket, attracting double-coverage, allowing blitzers to make plays and making plays against the run? i didn't expect any of those three guys to be huge impact players in their first season, so Matthews is a pleasant surprise. i think by the end of this year and throughout next year everybody will be hearing Raji's name more and more. and i have a feeling Finley, if we can keep him, will be a very big name for us over the next decade.
 
If we're self-quoting on Raji, I'm joining in.
Cimmerian Nights said:
Judge Raji by how much freedom his LBs have in executing their duites though. Not by tackles, sacks or hurries.
I don't watch all the pack games but when his LBs have the freedom to fly around, the front 3 of the 3-4 is doing their job. 3-4 NTs are not sackers/tacklers, they are space-eaters.
Matthew's success is directly tied to the lineman in front of him occupying blockers.

If I were a Packers fan I'd be more worried about the banged-up O-line & the loss of Harris.

Brother None said:
Cimmerian Nights said:
But if Toby Gerhart doesn't win I'm playing the race card on anti-white HB bias. How about some love for Stanford too, huh?

The Heisman is what we thought it was. You wanna crown Ingram's ass? THEN CROWN HIM!
I've been a huge 'Bama fan forever, but Ingram is pretty 'meh' AFAIC. I doubt he's as good as Coffee was for them last year. McElroy is the one that stepped up in their big games.

Gerhart is the victim of elitist, east coast media bias. If he was a black kid from the inner-city playing for an SEC team instead of a suburban white kid from a smart engineering school he's be posing right now. [/tin foil hat mode]

Close vote though. My man Spiller got some Heisman love too!

Hell, by your mantrum of losses being good preparation for the play-offs, Steelers must be HELLA READY for the playoffs now. Patriots too.
Dude, obviously that doesn't ring true when you lose your way out of the playoffs like the Steelers have with losses to KC, Raiders, Cleveland. There's nothing to be gained from a 5-game loss streak.
I'm talking about a humbling loss being a catalyst for a team to get their shit together.
If the Pats don't win out, a playoff appearance is just ceremonial AFAIC. Host one at home and win - so what? They're not going deep
And for all intents and purposes I have to think that Adalius Thomas has basically been deactivated forever as a Pat.


Nice documentary on Miami last night. The military fatigues, Catholics Vs. Convicts, that '91 Sugar Bowl where they pissed all over Texas, the FSU games. Awesome nostalgia, what a fucking program that was.
I have to give ESPN credit, I like this 30 for 30 series.


Also what kind of shithead quits an undefeated team prior to their bowl game? Cinncinnati has an outside chance at the title, (I don't see how they can be denied if they beat everyone put in front of them). I don't know if I want a guy that would lie to his team, then bolt for more money to coach my team. It's like dating a girl that left her fiancee at the altar, is that the girl you want to shack up with?
I love the media though, whenever they mention his credentials they always end with "..and he's Irish Catholic". :?
 
Ndamukong Suh to the Bucs!
Holy shit was that one horrible game. Horrible horrible horrible.

The defense looked improved again, but goddammit was the offense horrible. We didn't get a first down until the third quarter. Holy shit that was ridiculous.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
If I were a Packers fan I'd be more worried about the banged-up O-line & the loss of Harris.
The main thing is that they're getting really thin at several positions. Losing Harris alone isn't that bad since Tramon Williams can replace him effectively, but they've also lost Will Blackmon, so if Williams or god forbid Woodson get hurt, they're down to scrub replacements. They also can't afford any OT injuries. If Tauscher and or Clifton go down, forget about it.

Cimmerian Nights said:
Gerhart is the victim of elitist, east coast media bias.
I'd say it's an elitist SEC bias. That's college football for you. :|

Cimmerian Nights said:
Also what kind of shithead quits an undefeated team prior to their bowl game?
The next Notre Dame flameout.

TwinkieGorilla said:
god, that was close. too close.
Against the Bears, a win is a win. You never know what's going to happen in those games.

Sander said:
Ndamukong Suh to the Bucs!
He'd be a great addition to a rebuilding team, I think.
 
Interesting times.

How 'bout them Falcons? Looks like they're going to continue their mind-boggling streak of never having had back-to-back winning seasons. What a franchise.

Also, while all eyes are on the Colts and Saints, I'm real interested in seeing the Chargers and Packers just get hotter and hotter. With the running game finally getting some wheels (though we'll see how it does against tougher opposition, Bears are who we thought they were) and the O-line seemingly solidified (the hole they pulled for Grant's TD run was a beaut), this team looks unstoppable. Their only real issue, assuming their sack numbers and running numbers don't drop right off against tougher opposition, are injuries. That kind of thinness at key positions isn't something you usually get away with come play-offs.

Chargers are even worse. That's a monster team right now, and I don't think any other team would feel comfortable going up against them. The running game is shit, true, but the O has too many weapons to switch to if you take one out, and the D has reached a whole renewed level of hard-hitting since Siler's been starting.

Those teams'll be interesting to watch in the playoffs.

TwinkieGorilla said:
collapsing the pocket, attracting double-coverage, allowing blitzers to make plays and making plays against the run?

Oh, awesome. So, uh, when did this happen? I've seen about 3 Pack games in total, I think, and all I've seen when Raji was playing was him subbing in as an end at times. I think I've seen him making one sack and one or two tackles for a loss - you know, the kind of plays you expect from a one-gap defensive tackle - but I can't recall anything you just listed.

Cimmerian Nights said:
I don't watch all the pack games but when his LBs have the freedom to fly around, the front 3 of the 3-4 is doing their job. 3-4 NTs are not sackers/tacklers, they are space-eaters.

Yeah dude, I'm not new at this, you know? But didn't I just say Raji hasn't actually played much - if at all - as a 3-4 NT until this week? I mean, that he wouldn't be a starter at NT was to be expected, though his streak of injuries certainly had an impact, but I've only seen him in at end or lined up off the 0-gap, even as an undertackle together with their starting NT. I never saw him lined up against the center a single time in any Pack game I watched.

Since he's lined up as a one-gap tackle, he makes one-gap tackle plays, not so much holding blockers as bursting through the line to make plays. Awesome. That's what Raji's good at. That's not what a NT in 3-4 is supposed to do though. See? I ranted about this endlessly after the draft, Raji is a talented player that does not have the specific talents to do what the Pack needs at NT.

So, he hasn't actually played NT until this week, when he took almost all of his starting snaps at NT (he was out a bit with an injury, man that dude's been hobbled a lot). I didn't see the game, so it's hard for me to know how he did. If someone can tell me, please do, pundits don't write too much on NTs, though Scout.com notes:
Raji, on the other hand, played nose tackle almost exclusively (24 of his 25 unofficial snaps). He teamed with Jenkins and Jolly to help the defense make a key third-down stop late in the third quarter. Linebacker Nick Barnett and safety Atari Bigby were the beneficiaries. They stopped running back Kahlil Bell cold on a third-and-1 from the Packers’ 45-yard line when the Packers’ defensive line all but cleared out the Bears’ offensive line. The Bears led 14-13 at the time.

Raji (two tackles) otherwise failed to make much of an impact going up against the Bears’ Pro Bowl center, Olin Kreutz.

“There’s some areas in the run defense we can play better than we did,” said Capers, “but it was good to see him get in there and get a full game under his belt inside.”


Cimmerian Nights said:
Dude, obviously that doesn't ring true when you lose your way out of the playoffs like the Steelers have with losses to KC, Raiders, Cleveland. There's nothing to be gained from a 5-game loss streak.

I know, I was just kidding. There's losses that toughen up the team, and then there's losses that show decline, like the Patriots and Steelers are having.
 
Brother None said:
Oh, awesome. So, uh, when did this happen?

the fuck you want? a highlight composite-reel from preseason through now? what the hell do i care if you feel he's doing a good job or not? and for that matter is this a big enough deal to spend that much time typing about somebody not even on your own team? the kid's making an impact and looks like he could be a monster in this 3-4 as he matures. that's about all i can say about him. that's about all i care to say about him.
 
TwinkieGorilla said:
a highlight composite-reel from preseason through now?

Yes. Or any highlight showing him making a NT-esque play, really.

TwinkieGorilla said:
what the hell do i care if you feel he's doing a good job or not?

Why are you asking me? If you don't care, why would you reply?

TwinkieGorilla said:
and for that matter is this a big enough deal to spend that much time typing about somebody not even on your own team?

I dunno. Please define how many word maximum I can use on players not on my team for future reference, so I know what the official cut-off point is. Or, alternatively, figure that I just like this game, and keep a special eye out on guys I like and dislike, or whose progress I find interesting for academic reasons.

TwinkieGorilla said:
the kid's making an impact and looks like he could be a monster in this 3-4 as he matures.

And that's what I'm arguing against. Raji looks like he could make an impact if he were playing undertackle on a 4-3 team. Where's his impact as a NT? Where's the flash of talent at this position that makes UW say the pick is "working out" or you that "he could be a monster". He's a rookie and you can't expect too much anyway, especially from one injured like him, and he "could be" a monster like any player "could be" a monster.

Do you have any citations from pundits or highlight reels showing him actually playing well as NT, tho'? If you care to convince me of it, obviously. If you don't, I'll just gleefully continue burning the pick.
 
So Twinkie, when did you go from "Fuck it this Packers team sucks I want them to lose all of their games just to teach McCarthy a goddamn lesson" to "Go Pack go! We are awesome!"
 
no, i'm not going to go around searching for footage and editing for you. that's retarded. think what you want, i've seen what i've seen.

Sander said:
So Twinkie, when did you go from "Fuck it this Packers team sucks I want them to lose all of their games just to teach McCarthy a goddamn lesson" to "Go Pack go! We are awesome!"

i was pissed, dude. lay off. we're still gaining some garbage wins and i have just as much to criticize but like i'm not going to be pissed when we're losing or exciting when we're winning? the fuck is wrong with you?
 
Brother None said:
Also, while all eyes are on the Colts and Saints, I'm real interested in seeing the Chargers and Packers just get hotter and hotter.
I love San Diego and the Eagles as spoilers. I'm not saying they'll go all the way, but they, when on fire can take anyone down.

The Chargers are bonafide Colt killers.

It's just too bad the Pats will have to play the Colts first, I was getting used to the Chargers doing the dirty work and then falling to the Patriots.

There's losses that toughen up the team, and then there's losses that show decline, like the Patriots and Steelers are having.
Marone, how dare you lump the Pats in with the Steelers. Pats got shut out of the playoffs last year and are winning their division now. Steelers went from the top to ignominy, they're sub .500 now.
Dude, wipe 2007 out of your memory, that shit ain't happening in NE ever again. That was an aberration.
 
Sander said:
So Twinkie, when did you go from "Fuck it this Packers team sucks I want them to lose all of their games just to teach McCarthy a goddamn lesson" to "Go Pack go! We are awesome!"

Is what being a fan is about.

Cimmerian Nights said:
I love San Diego and the Eagles as spoilers. I'm not saying they'll go all the way, but they, when on fire can take anyone down.

Eagles are the third hot-late team, yeah. Any of these three could go deep. Chargers and Eagles are on many radars too, though for some reason the Pack isn't. But I guess that's because Pack's success is so fragile and unproven.

Cimmerian Nights said:
It's just too bad the Pats will have to play the Colts first, I was getting used to the Chargers doing the dirty work and then falling to the Patriots.

Hah. That should be fun.

Cimmerian Nights said:
how dare you lump the Pats in with the Steelers.

They're two teams that really suck ass right now? Ugly loss upon ugly loss, showing no progress but only decline?
 
There are different degrees of ass-suckage though. The Pats had an ugly win yesterday.
The Pats have only lost to teams that are still in the hunt. Pitt has shipwrecked.

Such is life when you sell your soul to Randy Moss. :twisted:
And everybody in New England buried Ron Borges when he tried to tell us.


edit:
Gotta love Belichik, definitely a disciple of Parcells, I can hear Tuna's voice when he speaks.
L'il Tuna said:

Brother None said:
Sander said:
So Twinkie, when did you go from "Fuck it this Packers team sucks I want them to lose all of their games just to teach McCarthy a goddamn lesson" to "Go Pack go! We are awesome!"

Is what being a fan is about.
Yeah man, you know, the way the Pats are playing, I don't even want to see them in the playoffs. What's the point?


Also, none of you fucking philistines watched that documentary on 'The U' yet? It was on again last night and I watched the 1st hour I missed. Good shit, but it had some homery moments. They hit the highs of the program, but then glossed over a lot of the times that their peerless level of cockiness blew up in their faces (the '93 Sugar Bowl they lost to 'Bama for the Championship* (they let Lamaar Thomas puff himself up for two hours, yet he conveniently forgot this play), Jerome Brown's death etc.) I can't even remember half the shit those clowns did, it was like a 20 year run of a team populated with T.O.s. So much talent, so many wins, so many disgraceful, ghetto-ass antics. Lovely.

*Good to see 'Bama on it's way to another title after 17 years.
17 fucking years, I'm getting old, I can remember watching that game like it was last week.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
There are different degrees of ass-suckage though. The Pats had an ugly win yesterday.
The Pats have only lost to teams that are still in the hunt. Pitt has shipwrecked.

Such is life when you sell your soul to Randy Moss. :twisted:
And everybody in New England buried Ron Borges when he tried to tell us.
This Randy Moss shit is hilarious. Now Carter and Rice are getting critical, too. ProFootballTalk is trying to hype it up into some huge controversy. My guess is this will only motivate Moss more.
The game in which I saw him give the most effort this season was against the Jets, right after Revis was smack-talking to Moss. Moss didn't get much done, but he was fighting for every yard. I'd expect him to try to show everyone he's definitely not slacking off next week.
Cimmerian Nights said:
Also, none of you fucking philistines watched that documentary on 'The U' yet? It was on again last night and I watched the 1st hour I missed. Good shit, but it had some homery moments. They hit the highs of the program, but then glossed over a lot of the times that their peerless level of cockiness blew up in their faces (the '93 Sugar Bowl they lost to 'Bama for the Championship* (they let Lamaar Thomas puff himself up for two hours, yet he conveniently forgot this play), Jerome Brown's death etc.) I can't even remember half the shit those clowns did, it was like a 20 year run of a team populated with T.O.s. So much talent, so many wins, so many disgraceful, ghetto-ass antics. Lovely.

*Good to see 'Bama on it's way to another title after 17 years.
17 fucking years, I'm getting old, I can remember watching that game like it was last week.
I'd love to see that show, but it's hard to get it over here. I basically have to wait for ESPN America to decide to air it. They haven't so far.
 
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