NFL 2009

[UniversalWolf]

Strong finish to the season from Favre. I guess rumors of his demise were exaggerated. True, the Giants mailed it in, but 35-17 would've been just mailing it in. 44-7 was an embarrassing slaughter.

Nasty loss for the Pats, especially if Welker's going to be out. That defense definintely needs some work in the off-season. I can't say I'd be sorry to see Houston get in the playoffs finally, though. They've been on the verge for a long time. Schaub quietly had a great year.

 

[Sander]

If Welker's injury is serious, that'll hurt the Pats' chances in a big, big way. And that will also quickly put an end to the huge 'they're sitting starters!!' controversy.

Though I have to say that I like the idea of the league to offer incentives for winning those meaningless games, an extra late-round draft pick would certainly be enough incentive for some teams to not rest their starters, and it's hard to tell teams who they have to play.

The Bucs played another disappointing game, finishing the season at 3-12. I think we now have the 3rd pick in the draft, and we'll likely draft either Gerald McCoy or Eric Berry. Moreover, this loss gives the Glazers a bit more reason to fire Morris and get a new coach, though I think they'll only do that if they can get a truly big name coach: Cowher.

Also, what the fuck, one of the announcers at Raiders - Ravens is actually hyping Jamarcus Russell. 'Jamarcus Russell can make these great plays without any effort, and that's when you get a great quarterback' or something like that. Is he on crack?

Also also, holy fuck Giants collapse.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I couldn't see the Pats getting through Indy or SD barring some huge miracle anyway. Edelman is Welker 2.0, so there's not a huge dropoff there (a Welkerian 10 catches 100+ yards for him yesterday). And Welker's importance is as a substitute for an aenemic run game. I don't want to hear shit that he draws double teams, because you can't double team quick ins and flat patterns, that's a stupid notion. I'm more eager to see the return of Wilfork and Warren.
Still don't like their chances of winning in San Diego. They've done it before in the playoffs though...

Liking the Jets as spoilers. They'll roll Cincy, and then head to Indy where they're already 1-0. Tepid Colts vs. an already obnoxiously full of themselves Jets. This would be a sick team if Leon Washington and Jenkins were still healthy.
What a Defense for Manning & Co. to have to face after a virtual one month haiatus.

Though I have to say that I like the idea of the league to offer incentives for winning those meaningless games, an extra late-round draft pick would certainly be enough incentive for some teams to not rest their starters, and it's hard to tell teams who they have to play.

Gee, compensatory picks for the winningest team who benches their best players systematically. You win the most, you get the healthiest and you get draft picks!! Jesus, this couldn't be anymore transparent than if they called it the Polian Rule.

I don't think they should touch or enforce anything on this. They have no right. As wrong as people may think it is, the teams have every right to play who they want, when they want. For whatever reason they want.

Why should teams pander to fans who can't see past their own noses?

All you'll get then is injury report like this:
Manning... Out....Flu
Dallas Clark...Out.....Flu
Reggie Wayne... Out.... Flu
Dwight Freeney...Out...Flu
And they will somehow miraculously recover in timer for the next game.

There's no way to enforce this, and the league has no right.

What happens when the Colts do win it and look like geniuses for being healthy?
Why is it a forgone conclusion from everyone that the Colts will choke again?

What's next, compensatory picks for injuries? Because I want retroactive picks for one season of Matt Cassel.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

i agree that benching players instead of playing the last game is anticlimactic but the NFL commission should get their sorry asses out of this discussion, seriously.

 

[Sander]

I couldn't see the Pats getting through Indy or SD barring some huge miracle anyway. Edelman is Welker 2.0, so there's not a huge dropoff there (a Welkerian 10 catches 100+ yards for him yesterday). And Welker's importance is as a substitute for an aenemic run game. I don't want to hear shit that he draws double teams, because you can't double team quick ins and flat patterns, that's a stupid notion. I'm more eager to see the return of Wilfork and Warren.

Edelman is decent but he's no Welker, not yet anyway. Losing the top receiver in the league always hurts.

Gee, compensatory picks for the winningest team who benches their best players systematically. You win the most, you get the healthiest and you get draft picks!! Jesus, this couldn't be anymore transparent than if they called it the Polian Rule.

I don't think they should touch or enforce anything on this. They have no right. As wrong as people may think it is, the teams have every right to play who they want, when they want. For whatever reason they want.

Why should teams pander to fans who can't see past their own noses?

Because this game is a business that only makes a profit because of the fans, and when the fans hate something the league wants to step in.

I'm not suggesting compensatory picks for playing starters, and I don't think the league is suggesting that. I meant that offering an incentive to win meaningless games is a good idea, such as a late third-round pick for winning your meaningless week 17 game (not for winning the most games in a season).

ProFootballTalk suggested having a neutral committee determine playoff seeding, and having them base it off of late-season games.

You can't possibly enforce a 'play your starters' rule, but you can offer incentives.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Edelman is decent but he's no Welker, not yet anyway. Losing the top receiver in the league always hurts.

He's fierce, but he's a system guy. Wayne Chrebet with a QB. Undrafted, cut by teams. Didn't even make the pro-bowl last year.
Being the best slot receiver, is kind of like being the fastest mo-ped.
He's a gamer though.

Because this game is a business that only makes a profit because of the fans, and when the fans hate something the league wants to step in.

The Colt's brand doesn't become more valuable with another SB win? Manning doesn't get more endoresements, merchandising sales don't go up? Compared to a week 16 win over the fucking JETS? That's peanuts. I'm not buying that. Maning could fill the Tiger Woods void.
Another jewel in Payton's crown doesn't improve the prestige of the NFL overall? He's their Golden Boy. He is literally the POsterboy of the NFL. They don't want him getting hurt in week 17 anymore than the NBA ever called travelling on Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky ever got asked to backcheck in the NHL.

Especially when the league wants to expand the season - thus adding more meaningless games. Games that are currently uncompetitive preseason games that season ticketholders pay full price for. Yeah, they're real worried about the fans getting value for their money.

Why is the assumption that the Colts have already rested themselves out of a SB? Y'all have less regard for the Colts than I do?

This is Indy's gamble to take. They've calculated the risks and rewards. They are not stupid, and the league has no right to interfere.

I'm not suggesting compensatory picks for playing starters, and I don't think the league is suggesting that. I meant that offering an incentive to win meaningless games is a good idea, such as a late third-round pick for winning your meaningless week 17 game (not for winning the most games in a season).

This would diminish the meaningfulness of weeks 1-16.

The Colts worked the system, the only incentive is one that protects and rests their players even more.

ProFootballTalk suggested having a neutral committee determine playoff seeding, and having them base it off of late-season games.

Yes, another "neutral" comitte with Bill Polian, Jeff Fisher and Don Schula as heads! Can't wait to see what comes out of that.

You can't possibly enforce a 'play your starters' rule, but you can offer incentives.

The Colts were on their way to a perfect season, they had the league's longest active winning streak ever. Now you want to compensate them for half-heartedly throwing some token starters into a blowout?

New flash - Manning does not get sacked. He does not get hit. He does not get hurt.
He gets rid of the ball faster than anyone. He gets sacked in a season less than Roethlisberger does in a bad game.
There's very little risk in starting him, and even if he did break a finger, a 3rd rounder is no compensation for losing the MVP of MVPs.


If Jim Sorgi were healthy we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway.

 

[Sander]

He's fierce, but he's a system guy. Wayne Chrebet with a QB. Undrafted, cut by teams. Didn't even make the pro-bowl last year.
Being the best slot receiver, is kind of like being the fastest mo-ped.
He's a gamer though.

No it isn't. Just because his skills don't match up with the traditional WR doesn't make him replaceable. He has very specific skills (very accurate short route running, sure hands, quick on short routes, great at getting yards after catch) that the Pats are using optimally, and they can't easily replace that. Edelman apparently has some of that, but he's no Welker, and he won't serve as well as Brady's dump-off/short-yardage guy as Welker did.

The Colt's brand doesn't become more valuable with another SB win? Manning doesn't get more endoresements, merchandising sales don't go up? Compared to a week 16 win over the fucking JETS? That's peanuts. I'm not buying that. Maning could fill the Tiger Woods void.
Another jewel in Payton's crown doesn't improve the prestige of the NFL overall? He's their Golden Boy. He is literally the POsterboy of the NFL. They don't want him getting hurt in week 17 anymore than the NBA ever called travelling on Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky ever got asked to backcheck in the NHL.

Especially when the league wants to expand the season - thus adding more meaningless games. Games that are currently uncompetitive preseason games that season ticketholders pay full price for. Yeah, they're real worried about the fans getting value for their money.

Why is the assumption that the Colts have already rested themselves out of a SB? Y'all have less regard for the Colts than I do?

This is Indy's gamble to take. They've calculated the risks and rewards. They are not stupid, and the league has no right to interfere.

I'm not saying the Colts aren't going to win a Superbowl because of this at all, and I'm not saying that the Colts shouldn't be allowed to do this. What I am saying is that the NFL is not served by teams rolling over in the late season because those teams have locked everything up, and that they could offer incentives to counterbalance the incentive of not injuring people. If you want competitive games in the late season, this is a way to do it. You're not forcing any team to do anything, you're not punishing any team for doing anything, all you're doing is offering teams an incentive to continue to try their hardest.

If you don't like how people are using the system, you change the system!

Yes, another "neutral" comitte with Bill Polian, Jeff Fisher and Don Schula as heads! Can't wait to see what comes out of that.

Yes, that must be what was suggested: allow the teams themselves to determine their rankings. Are you kidding me?

The Colts were on their way to a perfect season, they had the league's longest active winning streak ever. Now you want to compensate them for half-heartedly throwing some token starters into a blowout?

New flash - Manning does not get sacked. He does not get hit. He does not get hurt.
He gets rid of the ball faster than anyone. He gets sacked in a season less than Roethlisberger does in a bad game.
There's very little risk in starting him, and even if he did break a finger, a 3rd rounder is no compensation for losing the MVP of MVPs.

That's all you can do, if you want to do something about teams resting their starters. It won't be enough for a team bent on not caring, but it might be enough for some other teams - for a team like the Chargers, it may push them over the edge.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

No it isn't. Just because his skills don't match up with the traditional WR doesn't make him replaceable. He has very specific skills (very accurate short route running, sure hands, quick on short routes, great at getting yards after catch) that the Pats are using optimally, and they can't easily replace that. Edelman apparently has some of that, but he's no Welker, and he won't serve as well as Brady's dump-off/short-yardage guy as Welker did.

He's a total system guy, look at the spike in production when he came here. He led the league in receptions one year and didn't even make the pro-bowl. What does that tell you?
He's not even a starter on most NFL teams. The Chargers cut him as a walk-on.
He's only got 4TDs on the year on a team with red zone scoring problems.

He's Wayne Chrebet with a good QB.

Not that they won't miss him, but Kevin Faulk is the go-to-guy. He's brought more rings home than Welker has dreamed about.

Ben Watson is the one that finally needs to step the fuck up though.
And the Pats #3 WR, whoever that is this week.

And when you have a healthy Sammy Morris, Fred Taylor, Maroney, Faulk, and BJ Green-Ellis, the short, possesion passing game becomes less crucial than the dropoff you'd get with Edelman.

If you want competitive games in the late season, this is a way to do it. You're not forcing any team to do anything, you're not punishing any team for doing anything, all you're doing is offering teams an incentive to continue to try their hardest.

If you don't like how people are using the system, you change the system!

The only people complaining are Colts fans who want a perfect season (superfluous) and Texans fans who want to blame their other 15 weeks of mediocrity on the Jets getting a Christmas present.

I'm fine with it the way it is.
The Colts steamrolled the league, they've earned the luxury of resting their starters.
It's the nature of the beast.

Why blame the Colts for lack of competition in the NFL? How about blaming the Rams, Lions, Bucs and Chiefs?

What the fuck happened to all the parity hoopla now with giving compensatory picks to the #1 seed?

The Colts are the best team of the last 10 years . If they don't want to jeopardize the shot at another championship at the risk of an uncompetitive Week 17 game in Buffallo, they've earned that right.



Besdies, I want a Jets/Pats AFCC game, so I'm all for the Colts being bitten in the ass by all this, and having it come full circle with another loss to the Jets at home.

Be careful what you ask for...

 

[Sander]

He's a total system guy, look at the spike in production when he came here. He led the league in receptions one year and didn't even make the pro-bowl. What does that tell you?
He's not even a starter on most NFL teams. The Chargers cut him as a walk-on.
He's only got 4TDs on the year on a team with red zone scoring problems.

He's Wayne Chrebet with a good QB.

Not that they won't miss him, but Kevin Faulk is the go-to-guy. He's brought more rings home than Welker has dreamed about.

Ben Watson is the one that finally needs to step the fuck up though.
And the Pats #3 WR, whoever that is this week.

Welker is a system guy, sure. As I said, he's not a prototypical receiver, but Belichick has managed to build an offense around his specific skillset. How is that a bad thing? You can't run this kind of offense, or the 2007 offense (arguably one of the best offenses ever) by replacing Welker with Brandon Marshall. Yes, he's a system guy. That doesn't make him valueless or replaceable. He's the league's leader in receptions while missing 2 games (and a large part of yesterday's game).

As for him not making the Pro Bowl - neither did Vincent Jackson.

And when you have a healthy Sammy Morris, Fred Taylor, Maroney, Faulk, and BJ Green-Ellis, the short, possesion passing game becomes less crucial than the dropoff you'd get with Edelman.

That's true, a good running game to get through those short-yardage situations is crucial. There's a reason why Belichick went with a short pass on 4th&2.

The only people complaining are Colts fans who want a perfect season (superfluous) and Texans fans who want to blame their other 15 weeks of mediocrity on the Jets getting a Christmas present.

That's because they've gotten used to it. You can't tell me that people would rather watch a meaningless game featuring Mark Brunell at quarterback than watching Drew Brees try to pick apart a defense. These games are meaningless, bloodless exhibition games that serve no purpose. That hurts the league.

I'm fine with it the way it is.
The Colts steamrolled the league, they've earned the luxury of resting their starters.
It's the nature of the beast.

Why blame the Colts for lack of competition in the NFL? How about blaming the Rams, Lions, Bucs and Chiefs?

It's not about blaming the Colts at all, I haven't even mentioned that game and I haven't said a thing about blaming them or denying them whatever right they have to rest their starters, so I really don't know why you try to make it about that.

It's really simple. A lot of late-season games are meaningless contests that people don't want to watch. The NFL doesn't want meaningless contests no one wants to watch. A way to mitigate this problem: give teams a reason to make these contests meaningful.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

That's true, a good running game to get through those short-yardage situations is crucial. There's a reason why Belichick went with a short pass on 4th&2.

I wouldn't read much into that as a pass since it was in the form of a shallow, flat pattern from a quick release, which is essentially the same as an outside toss.
Significance here is that it went to Faulk rather than the league's best posession/slot receiver.

These games are meaningless, bloodless exhibition games that serve no purpose. That hurts the league.

16 meaningfull games from 32 teams is too unrealistic and can't be legislated.

Tune into WFAN right now for some awesome NYC sports angst. Jets fans haven't been this emboldened and cocky since SBIII. Bitter Giants fans trying to put them in their place. Love it when the NY sports scene goes into canabalism mode.

 

[Sander]

I wouldn't read much into that as a pass since it was in the form of a shallow, flat pattern from a quick release, which is essentially the same as an outside toss.
Significance here is that it went to Faulk rather than the league's best posession/slot receiver.

There's more safety in the running game, there's a lot more things that can go wrong with the short passing game. It's telling they went with the pass, as it's a (deserved) knock on their running game (and defense)

16 meaningfull games from 32 teams is too unrealistic and can't be legislated.

Maybe. I wouldn't mind seeing the NFL try with some incentives, though.

Tune into WFAN right now for some awesome NYC sports angst. Jets fans haven't been this emboldened and cocky since SBIII. Bitter Giants fans trying to put them in their place. Love it when the NY sports scene goes into canabalism mode.

Ahahaha, there's someone going "Well look at what the Cardinals did last year, the Jets could do that too" host: "They had a Hall of Fame quarterback and wide receiver" caller: "Yeah b-" host: "I reiterate: they had a Hall of Fame quarterback and wide receiver that no one could stop. The Jets just have an improving defense that can't get to the quarterback without blitzing". The host didn't give the caller even a tiny shot to finish a sentence.

Also, holy shit you guys have a metric shitton of commercials on radio.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I couldn't see the Pats getting through Indy or SD barring some huge miracle anyway.

I had Brady in my money league so I watched him pretty closely and it's clear he wasn't and isn't back to 100% this year. That, combined with the defense problems makes me think you're probably right.

I like your idea about the Jets beating Indy. I could see that happening. I think SD beats Indy if not the Jets, but we'll see.

It's bizarre how three of the four playoff games are reruns from this weekend.

Supposedly Al Davis is going to fire Tom Cable for benching JaMarcus Russell. That pick the Pats got for Seymour is looking like a gem...

Your team is like an unscrupulous telemarketer badgering senile old people into giving up their credit card numbers.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

There's more safety in the running game, there's a lot more things that can go wrong with the short passing game. It's telling they went with the pass, as it's a (deserved) knock on their running game (and defense)

This is kind of a chicken/egg argument since Welker's short/possesion game is the next best substitute for no running game. They can run it when they have to, and now everyone is healthy and Welker isn't. I'm not saying they're going to run it down BAL's throat, but they'll bang it out on the ground.

It's their O coordinator that's the problem. Or the fact that he changes every two years. Why is Charlie Wies not on the sidelines right now?

The host didn't give the caller even a tiny shot to finish a sentence.

That's cordial discourse in the NE part of the country. Francesca is at his best when he baits the Jets and Mets fans and then blows them up. He's playing them like a fiddle. Good radio.

Also, holy shit you guys have a metric shitton of commercials on radio.

If you were deaf, dumb, blind, and illtierate you couldn't escape the ubiquity of advertising in NYC.

I had Brady in my money league so I watched him pretty closely and it's clear he wasn't and isn't back to 100% this year. That, combined with the defense problems makes me think you're probably right.

He's probably worse now with broken ribs and finger. Can't have regrets about not pulling Welker when you play Brady like that.
D gave up another lead. Bad. So unlike Belichik teams of the past.

I like your idea about the Jets beating Indy. I could see that happening. I think SD beats Indy if not the Jets, but we'll see.

The Jets aren't horrendous, and they match up well against Indy with their strong D, best cover corner in the game, and inside running which Indy couldn't in their wildest dreams stop.
And well, I think I've pretty well documented the Colts playoff blunders.

Plus Polian now. We're not jeopardizing our starters in pursuit of records/history. Yet he let his starters come out just to hit a few meaningless personal records before pulling them yesterday. He's so full of shit.

Supposedly Al Davis is going to fire Tom Cable for benching JaMarcus Russell. That pick the Pats got for Seymour is looking like a gem...

He's coach of the year for benching Russell. Besdies, Cable kind of grew on me. And they showed lots of improvement and won some big games. Considering...

 

[welsh]

Jets crush Bengals- Happiness.

 

[Sander]

We'll see if that win sticks when it matters to the Bengals.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

We'll see if that win sticks when it matters to the Bengals.

The Jets can hang with just about every team, in every area except one - the one that matters the most, QB.
Lowest yards and points allowed.
Best running game, most prolific runner of the last few years.
Best O-Line money can buy.
Good kicker, good return game.
And this is with Leon Washington and Jenkins out, their 2 best play makers.
They even upgraded at WR with Braylon, (but he's not really the answer for them).


That they've gotten this far (albeit with some tremendous luck and help) with a QB like Sanchez, who is really a turnover machine, is pretty remarkable and says a lot about the team in it's totality. And the fact that I've never heard any Jet bitch or moan about this being a throwaway year by tossing the rookie in says a lot too. It amazes me that these proud, stout D's like BAL of old, never throw their bush league QBs under the bus.

They are a very good team in a lot of areas, and I love the matchup with the Colts if ti comes. The Bengals however are cut from the same mold, strong D and power running. They however, have a very good QB.

This first round should be interesting.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Caddy was robbed.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Right or wrong, this was a forgone conclusion before the season even started.


Better duck all you NFL hopefuls, Rex Ryan has fired a salvo across your bows!

New York Jets coach Rex Ryan says his team should not only be favored to beat the Cincinnati Bengals, but to win the Super Bowl.

It would be funny if it weren't so predictable.
He is truly his father's son.

Good news for you Packers fans:

The Defensive Hog Index is our effort to quantify which team has the best defensive front in football. It's proven a huge indicator of success since we introduced it during the 2007 season: teams that are better in the DHI are 20-2 in the playoffs over that time, and the No. 1 team in DHI has won the Super Bowl each year (2007 Giants and 2008 Steelers).

...
As loyal CHFF readers know (Hi cousin Bo!), the No. 1 team in the DHI has won the Super Bowl each of the two years since we introduced the indicator (2007 Giants, 2008 Steelers).

This year, that trend favors a team we identified as a Super Bowl dark horse back in December: the Packers.

Also.
I'm stoked for the playoffs. Knowing the Pats have no chance is like a weight lifted off my shoulders, I might actually be able to relax this year. If they don't get there, I'll be perfectly happy to watch P. Rivers tear through the Colts 2ndary all the while mercilessly, ceaselessly and classlessly taunting the Indy fans like he did last year.


And #1Bama vs. #2Texas tomorrow.
Ho-
Lee
Shit.

Roll Tide!

 

[Sander]

Caddy was robbed.

Damn straight. No offense to Brady, but fuck his injury, Caddy came back from two career-threatening knee injuries.

Meh @ ColdHardFootballFacts, 2 years of sampling? Fuck that. I'd rather go with Football Outsiders' DVOA, which would place the Ravens and Packers at the top (the Packers at the top if you weigh recent results higher than early season results).

Also, umm, Pats have no chance? Aside from the fact that the Pats are still a pretty good team, Any Given Sunday!

Also also, Raheem Morris gets another year. Better than Cowher getting full control and installing his 3-4 defense we have no people for.

Lastly, anyone seen Big Fan? About a really obsessive Giants fan who gets beaten up by his favourite player. Pretty cool movie, written and directed by the writer of The Wrestler, and its pretty similar to that one.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Damn straight. No offense to Brady, but fuck his injury, Caddy came back from two career-threatening knee injuries.

If you thought this was going to be based on merit and not PR power, you're being naive. Jesus, everytime Tom Brady got a bedsore last year it led on ESPN.

The media and the general public love "stories", they don't get wrapped up in all this frivolous stats and analysis hokum. People magazine probably already timed their exclusive Brady baby pictures to coincide with this.

Meh @ ColdHardFootballFacts, 2 years of sampling? Fuck that. I'd rather go with Football Outsiders' DVOA, which would place the Ravens and Packers at the top (the Packers at the top if you weigh recent results higher than early season results).

Offense or Defense? Based on what time frame? BAL has really slipped the last few years, on D and their offense is not the same as they were the beginning of the year. Flacco looked like shit the 2nd half.

Also, umm, Pats have no chance? Aside from the fact that the Pats are still a pretty good team, Any Given Sunday!

They're not a pretty good Pats team. The D is a fucking shambles, O is all out of sorts. I could care less about Welker, having him or not won't break a game open. Watch Edelman pull in 10 catches for 100 yards effortlessly.

Of course, the last time I felt this way, they went into SD as the underdog against IIRC a 14-2 Chargers juggernaut and fucking stunned those sunbaked California flakes. Two year in a row no less. Did the Merriman dance at midfield they did.
Lot of bad blood there.
Proabably SD's chance to slip by. Then again, you know what they say about NOrv Turner in the playoffs...

Might as well kick the Pats when they are down because they have 7 1st & 2nd round picks over the next two years. This is the first year of rebuilding, further gearing up for their second dynasty run forthcoming.


Have to beat BAL first though.

Not an easy task with this bunch of stiffs.

Also also, Raheem Morris gets another year. Better than Cowher getting full control and installing his 3-4 defense we have no people for.

Is that better?

Lastly, anyone seen Big Fan? About a really obsessive Giants fan who gets beaten up by his favourite player. Pretty cool movie, written and directed by the writer of The Wrestler, and its pretty similar to that one.

Haven't seen it, but it's a tribute/parody of WFAN and it's more famous callers basicaly.
Philadelphia Phil rocks.