NFL 2009

[TwinkieGorilla]

facemask was flagrant and won the game. both teams played just as horribly when it comes down to it...remember it was a tie game which went to OT. that means it was brand new. we lost that game for three reasons:

#1) Rodgers over-threw Jennings on first down.

#2) Grant's first down run got called back because of a penalty on us...meanwhile there was a blatant helmet on helmet foul to Rodgers, which wasn't called. had it been, penalties would have offset, repeat second down.

#3) Flagrant facemask on Rodgers which pulled his helmet over his face from first contact all the way to the ground. the goddamn picture is all over the fucking news today along with taglines like "Packers got screwed".


and i won't even get into the other thousand calls which never appeared against the Cards (Finley getting slapped, Fitz plowing Wood over in the endzone, my dick in Warner's god-fearing eye, etc).

 

[Sander]

Dude, I'm not interested in the tit-for-tat pissing contest.

Suffice to say:
1st play from scrimage - 85 yd TD - nobody laid a finger on him
Strip sack sets up a TD (Preceded by 2 plays for -1yds)
3 and out
INT sets up another TD
INT sets up a FG
24-0
That was the first 12 minutes.

The 2009 Patriots are not good enough to surmount that.

Be realistic, where did they ever show the ability to come back against a quality team like BAL?

Where? The half ended 24-7. Third quarter ended 27-14. Those were spots where I thought 'Huh, maybe they could pull this off', and judging by some internet comment threads on the game other people who aren't Pats fans thought the same thing, especially given Baltimore's tendency of killing itself with penalties.

Brady's 1st QTR - 4-8 50% 16 yards, 1 fumble, 2 INTS ( a 3rd INT dropped).
Not good huh?
That's not good for Ryan Leaf. For Tom Brady, at home, in a playoff game it 's shameful and certainly boo-worthy.
He said this himself.

I'm not saying he was doing anything but playing badly at that point.

Trying backing one of your wild assertions up with a fucking example or some kind of precedence before you slag others for using artistic license to fill in the gaping fucking chasm in your argument.

What wild assertions would those be? I never claimed that fans determine who wins and loses, but that's what you tried to twist my claims to. That's ridiculous, and something you do in almost every single debate. Try to answer the points people actually make, instead of the points you'd want them to make. Don't fill in things that aren't there and then try to attack those things. What you do is a classic, textbook case of a strawman.

Are you naive enough to think that the fans were burdening Tom Brady by giving reciprocal vocal expression to his performance.

What, if I think that supporters have a motivational capability? Yes, I do. That's what, in European football (where climate differences are small and huddles and indoor stadiums don't exist) home field advantage is almost solely based on. Teams like Liverpool, Milan and Feyenoord have much better home field records than away game records, in part because their stadiums are a really hostile environment for away teams - and the fans make it that.
And yes, I think some players have a hard time in that environment, and I think home players are at times extra motivated by that. I think that at times, this can make a very small difference.

But I think more than that, you don't get to call yourself a real supporter if you just give up at the first time of trouble. That's called being a bandwagon fan.

Aww sour grapes. 3 SuperBowls, 2 World Series, 10 Stanley Cups, and 17 NBA Championships (odds-on favorite on to get 18 this year).
Your causality theory don't hold up.

That was a sarcastic comment, not a serious suggestion of causality.

You're out of your depth now, because that couldn't be more false.
Incidentally, how'd McNabb do in his last 2 meaningful games?

Not really. Eagles fans love mediocre scrappy working-class players, they whine about their great players who don't have that image. There's a reason Rocky has a statue instead of a real sports hero.

I could look up a couple interviews on this for you, but I'd have to spend about an hour finding them and not interested.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Whatever man, not burying the Pats or quitting on them. Just expressing that that was the worst QTR of football by Brady and some others, and it's cathartic to express that. Nobody booed after the 1st QTR flaming tailspin. Not booing everything they've done.
Just one quarter.
Of really lousy football.
At the worst possible time.
I think booing is a healthy response to that.

Not really. Eagles fans love mediocre scrappy working-class players, they whine about their great players who don't have that image.

No, they love people who win championships.

There's a reason Rocky has a statue instead of a real sports hero.

Because he won more titles than Donovan McNabb (0), Charles Barkley (0), and Eric Lindross (0) got combined for Philadelphia.

People say Philly never appreciated them, well. For what championships?

Zero.
Zip
Zilch
Nil
Nada

and i won't even get into the other thousand calls which never appeared against the Cards (Finley getting slapped, Fitz plowing Wood over in the endzone, my dick in Warner's god-fearing eye, etc).

As always with officiating, it's the inconsistent application of that contact rule.
Revis actually gotone against him for getting thrown down by a WR.
But then Moss got one for plowing through a DB.
Then Fitz doesn't.
All over the place on those calls.

 

[Sander]

facemask was flagrant and won the game. both teams played just as horribly when it comes down to it...remember it was a tie game which went to OT. that means it was brand new. we lost that game for three reasons:

Nah, you lost the game because the Cardinals kept finding huge holes in your zone D.
The two ref calls at the end of the game were bad, but that kind of stuff happens almost every game. Not often in such a crucial situation, though.

This might open up the way for these kinds of things to be reviewable, too.

Because he won more titles than Donovan McNabb (0), Charles Barkley (0), and Eric Lindross (0) got combined for Philadelphia.

People say Philly never appreciated them, well. For what championships?

So you're saying that someone like Charles Barkley is crap because he couldn't win championships? Players can't win by themselves.
But yeah, you're displaying exactly the Philly mentality I mean: it's never worth anything unless they win it all.

In other news, Charles Woodson wins Defensive Player of the Year, and Jack Del Rio looks like he's gone from the NFL. If Jack Del Rio is gone, I'd think chances are decent Cowher comes back to coaching, with the Jaguars (he lives relatively closeby).

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Because he won more titles than Donovan McNabb (0), Charles Barkley (0), and Eric Lindross (0) got combined for Philadelphia.

So you're saying that someone like Charles Barkley is crap because he couldn't win championships? Players can't win by themselves.
But yeah, you're displaying exactly the Philly mentality I mean: it's never worth anything unless they win it all. ).

I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying that's their mentality, and in a way, they are right.
Charles Barkley #5 overall. McNabb #2 overall.
Barkley played with Dr. J, Moses Malone and Maurice Cheeks.
Eric Lindros #1 overall pick. PLayed on the Legion of Doom, probably the highest scoring, hardest hitting line in the NHL at the time, alongside the league's leading scorer John LeClair.
McNabb - how many Conference Championships has he lost?
They were never asked to win by themselves, just live up to their billing.

Look at a map of Philly and see in the last 30 years how many titles the Mets (1), Islanders (4), Devils (3), Rangers (1), Yankees (7), Giants (3), Steelers (2), Redskins (3), Penguins (3), Ravens (1), Knicks (2) have won. So within a couple hours driving distance you have over 30 champioships in 30 years. That's like going to a cathouse with your friends and they all get Jessica Biel looking chicks and you're stuck with some skinny cock-eyed bitch.
They love sport in Philly and they love their teams. They're just sick of watching everyone around them win SuperBowl after Stanley Cup after World Series.

I never saw Philly fans boo Buddy Ryan, Reggie White, Cunningham, and all those dudes.

They gave Jimmy Johnson and Michael Irvin some pretty warm receptions though.

If Jack Del Rio is gone, I'd think chances are decent Cowher comes back to coaching, with the Jaguars (he lives relatively closeby).

Cowher is in for a rude awekening IMO.
Remember his Steelers team could be relied on to blow big games with the exception of one very lucky year.
Then he leaves and a rookie takes the same team to the SB.
Makes you wonder, when you have such a strong orgnaization, with such great personell prectices if it was Cowher or the system.
I respect the guy, and I know he can fire people up, but I don't think he is one of these Parcells, Holmgren or Shanahan types that can come in and totally rebuild them into a bona fide contender.

Speaking of switching ranks, he's a dude I could see being more successfull in college with all his yelling and screaming and emotion. Same with Pete Carroll. You can't tell me he's coming back to the NFL for anyother reason than he's running from NCAA investigations/sanctions/penalties. Largely in thanks to Reggie Bush no less.

 

[Sander]

I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying that's their mentality, and in a way, they are right.
Charles Barkley #5 overall. McNabb #2 overall.
Barkley played with Dr. J, Moses Malone and Maurice Cheeks.
Eric Lindros #1 overall pick. PLayed on the Legion of Doom, probably the highest scoring, hardest hitting line in the NHL at the time, alongside the league's leading scorer John LeClair.
McNabb - how many Conference Championships has he lost?
They were never asked to win by themselves, just live up to their billing.

Look at a map of Philly and see in the last 30 years how many titles the Mets (1), Islanders (4), Devils (3), Rangers (1), Yankees (7), Giants (3), Steelers (2), Redskins (3), Penguins (3), Ravens (1), Knicks (2) have won. So within a couple hours driving distance you have over 30 champioships in 30 years. That's like going to a cathouse with your friends and they all get Jessica Biel looking chicks and you're stuck with some skinny cock-eyed bitch.
They love sport in Philly and they love their teams. They're just sick of watching everyone around them win SuperBowl after Stanley Cup after World Series.

Yeah, I know. When I was in London for the Pats - Bucs game I spoke a bit to a Philly girl who'd been living in London for two years. She was really, really pissed that she'd missed the one year any Philly team won something.

Cowher is in for a rude awekening IMO.
Remember his Steelers team could be relied on to blow big games with the exception of one very lucky year.
Then he leaves and a rookie takes the same team to the SB.
Makes you wonder, when you have such a strong orgnaization, with such great personell prectices if it was Cowher or the system.
I respect the guy, and I know he can fire people up, but I don't think he is one of these Parcells, Holmgren or Shanahan types that can come in and totally rebuild them into a bona fide contender.

Yeah, any team giving him full reign is taking a huge gamble, that doesn't just demand coaching skills (which Cowher does have), it demands great organizational skills and being a good talent evaluator. No one knows if Cowher can do that.

That said, the Jags don't need *that* much rebuilding. They have a decent amount of talent already and their biggest problems are on defense, and Cowher seems like a good fit in a situation like that.

Speaking of switching ranks, he's a dude I could see being more successfull in college with all his yelling and screaming and emotion. Same with Pete Carroll. You can't tell me he's coming back to the NFL for anyother reason than he's running from NCAA investigations/sanctions/penalties. Largely in thanks to Reggie Bush no less.

And Joe McKnight.
I'd think that most coaches would love a NFL headcoaching job, though.

In any case, I don't see this working out great for the Seahawks. College coaches going to the NFL don't have a great track record, and Pete Carroll's greatest talent was in recruiting, not coaching. He's good at spotting college-level talent, but it remains to be seen how that translates to the NFL. Especially since the Seahawks are really in rebuilding mode.

EDIT:
Okay, scratch that, Del Rio is staying in Jacksonville. So Panthers seem like the only team likely to fire their head coach and with a possibility to hire Cowher. Cowher lives in the area and rumours were that he wanted to go to the Panthers all along.

EDIT2: Something else I forgot to mention: non-sold out games, like the Pats game sunday, don't often get blacked-out because owners buy up remaining tickets. Bucs' owners have been doing that a lot this season, the Jags' owner apparently gave up on it this season.

EDIT3:
Teehee

They were booing loudly and lustily in the first quarter at Gillette Stadium, when early errors by the home team staked the Ravens to a quick lead. Way to support your team, New England fans! There was intense booing after Tom Brady's second first-quarter interception, more booing after Belichick ordered a draw on third-and-20, still more booing after Brady threw the ball away on a second-and-goal. Sure, you've won three Super Bowls in a decade, but what have you done for us lately? Either the New England home crowd is incredibly spoiled, or it's comprised of 68,765 fair-weather friends.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

So what, real fans cheer a 4 turnover, 24-0 drubbing over the course of 15 minutes? Worst playoff qtr ever, first loss at home since '78, first by Brady & BB at home, first 1st round knock out by BB, first loss ever to BAL in franchise history. Anyone thinking the 2009 Patriots were going to surmount that is in denial of reality and the realistic capabilities of this, mediocre football team.

Interesting how he starts ripping the fans for booing, then uses that as a launchpad to rip everything that the fans themselves were booing about. He rips Brady's lack of ball control, BB's playcalling, O-line's inability to pick up the blitz, "tired and predictable" strategy, lack of running game, shitty tackling Vs. Rice, Moss' dissappearing act. He assterts BB caved under media pressure, even bashes running up the score (Obsessed much?).


Remind me again GregG, what was there to cheer about? Doesn't sound like he could find a lot.
If I didn't already know Eaterbrook was biased against the Patriots, I might believe he wasn't just doing this for the sake of taking potshots. He's a hypocritical jerk-off.

Jackass, I guess he missed the message that BB sent one week before the seasoned started when he traded their best defensive player for a 1st rounder 2 years down the line.
The message being: title era is over, bridge era begins. Clearly the Patriots sacrificed putting the best team they could on the field for future success. You'd think a so-called smart guy like Easterbrook who has so much experience and authority in the realm of pro-football could see beyond his bias.


Can we talk about some good football teams now? There are some awesome matchups in the NFC this week. AFC not so much, but potential upsets Vs. notoriously soft playoff teams in SD and Indy.

May not get my chance to see a Jets/Indy rematch. Pats fucked that all up.

 

[Sander]

Can we talk about some good football teams now? There are some awesome matchups in the NFC this week. AFC not so much, but potential upsets Vs. notoriously soft playoff teams in SD and Indy.

May not get my chance to see a Jets/Indy rematch. Pats fucked that all up.

The Jets are going to be slaughtered by the Chargers. They can't shut down 3 6'5" receivers and the best tight end in the league. If they put Revis on Vincent Jackson, Rivers is just going to go to Antonio Gates, Naanee and Floyd.
The only way the Chargers lose is if they kill themselves.

I'd think the Ravens have a better shot at upsetting the Colts, but it still doesn't look good for them. The Colts are a better team than the Pats, with a better receiving corps and Manning is better at avoiding sacks and getting rid of the ball under pressure than Brady.
I'd expect the Ravens to go with almost exclusively running the ball and high-percentage passes, trying to eat up the clock. Problem is: Manning doesn't need much time to win a game.

I honestly don't have a clue about Vikings - Cowboys. I'm giving the Vikings the advantage, but Purple Jesus hasn't been doing well for a while now and handing the game to Favre can blow up in their face any minute.

Saints - Cardinals should be a fun shootout that the Saints manage to win pretty easily, Shockey is back for the Saints (I think losing him was the biggest problem for the Saints the past games) and the Cards' defense looks ripe for the picking.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The only way the Chargers lose is if they kill themselves.
They've been known to do just that in the playoffs, likewise for their coach. Their shitty running game will embolden an already blitz happy Rex to throw the kitchen sink at them. Lots of weapons for SD, and no standout individual pass rusher for the Jets may provwe to be lethal though.
Jets would be a formidable team if Jenkins and Leon Washington were still playing. That's like their 2 biggest playmakers gone.

I'd expect the Ravens to go with almost exclusively running the ball and high-percentage passes, trying to eat up the clock. Problem is: Manning doesn't need much time to win a game.

It's going to to be funny to see the Jets and Ravens dominate time of possesion and probably both lose.
Funny how you have the two lowest seeded teams as smashmouth throwbacks going against the hot nu-passhappy-NFL AFC darlings.
Would love to see an upset in one of these.

I honestly don't have a clue about Vikings - Cowboys. I'm giving the Vikings the advantage, but Purple Jesus hasn't been doing well for a while now and handing the game to Favre can blow up in their face any minute.

This one could go either way, except that Dallas has the mighty M-word working in their favor.

It's just funny to see how the media jump from one side of the fence to the other every week on the Cowboys and Favre over the course of the last few years.

Saints - Cardinals should be a fun shootout that the Saints manage to win pretty easily,

I think this depends on which Warner shows up. He can be feast or famine.
Can't believe that pussy is retiring when he seemingly has so much good football left in him.

Saints are the Saints. Like I said, until they show otherwise in the playoffs, I refuse to take them seriously.

At least one of these, star-studded, hyped up, fully rested, fire-breathing juggernaut 1 or 2 seeds is going down this week with a wimper at home.

Shockey is back for the Saints (I think losing him was the biggest problem for the Saints the past games) and the Cards' defense looks ripe for the picking.

Strangely enough, his injury for the Giants was the best thing that ever happened to Eli.


Oh noes, somebody call Easterbrook for some self-rightousbrow beating, the Ultimate Pat rips the Pats:
Troy Brown says Pats need leaders, toughness.
Oh Troy, how could you.

 

[UniversalWolf]

we lost that game for three reasons:

If I had to point to one thing that made Green Bay lose the game, it would be Bigby getting hurt. DB is the one position where they had no depth left and no tolerance for any more injuries. With Al Harris, Will Blackmon, and Pat Lee all in IR, and Martin already injured, they were down to Giordano filling in for Bigby. That's your primary source of blown coverages.

Bigby's a good safety, but he's too damn fragile.

Congrats to Woodson, too. In the Sporting News DPOY award, which is voted by NFL players, coaches, and execs, Revis didn't even come in second. Not that I have anything against Revis, but I found Ryan's sour grapes obnoxious.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/art...arles-woodson-named-sns-defensive-player-year

 

[Sander]

This is a reasonable parody of Pats fans, Cimmie.

Also, from the Ravens - Pats game, John Harbaugh mic'd up:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d815b517e/Harbaugh-mic-d-up

I love this mic'd up stuff.


Revis not being in the running for any defensive player of the year award seems ridiculous. I can get Woodson over Revis, but if Woodson wins Revis has to be a clear second.

I still don't see how you can like the Cards over the Saints, though. The Cards were passed to death on sunday, something Brees can do like no other. I don't think it'll much matter which Warner shows up, though I expect the awesome Warner to show up.

They've been known to do just that in the playoffs, likewise for their coach. Their shitty running game will embolden an already blitz happy Rex to throw the kitchen sink at them. Lots of weapons for SD, and no standout individual pass rusher for the Jets may provwe to be lethal though.
Jets would be a formidable team if Jenkins and Leon Washington were still playing. That's like their 2 biggest playmakers gone.

I think the Chargers O-line is pretty good, and the Jets have trouble getting pressure without blitzing anyway so that's a problem. Worse, on the big blitzes they're going to run man or even leave people open. That's really tough when the opposing receivers are all 6'5".

I'd be surprised if, if Mark Sanchez starts playing decently, the Jets aren't a Super Bowl contender in 2 or 3 years.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

This is a reasonable parody of Pats fans, Cimmie.

Parody? He's 100% right.

Also, from the Ravens - Pats game, John Harbaugh mic'd up:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d815b517e/Harbaugh-mic-d-up

I love this mic'd up stuff.

Funniest mic-ed ups are LT, John Randle, and Favre.

Ravens played a phenomenal game. With the exception of Flacco.
They deboned and then devoured the Patriots whole in the span of 15 minutes.

Revis not being in the running for any defensive player of the year award seems ridiculous. I can get Woodson over Revis, but if Woodson wins Revis has to be a clear second.

Revis is the better specialist. Woodson is the better overall football player. It's not something that's honored beyond the winner, so I could care less how the rest of the field shakes out for these awards.

I still don't see how you can like the Cards over the Saints, though. The Cards were passed to death on sunday, something Brees can do like no other. I don't think it'll much matter which Warner shows up, though I expect the awesome Warner to show up.

I don't disagree, but we could've said the same thing when they went up against the Panthers same time last year and stunned the league in that game. I'm not saying the Saints will lose this week, but a lot of strange shit can happen in the playoffs. People get hurt. The ball bounces. Warner, Fitzgerald, and Boldin turn it on, things can happen.

I do like one of these homedog #1 or #2 seeds go down this week. They should all win, rested, at home, favored. But at least one will choke.

I'd be surprised if, if Mark Sanchez starts playing decently, the Jets aren't a Super Bowl contender in 2 or 3 years.

Yeah, with Sanchez you just try to control the damage.
The Jets haven't played well in weeks to be honest, their last 2 games were gimmies, and they beat Cincy, but they didn't play great. Too bad, I think they match up well against Indy. But so doesn't SD.


This is kind of lame with pretty much no more "weather" stadiums at all for the remainder of the year.

 

[Brother None]

Man, as absolutely fascinating (read: stupid) as the whole Pats debate is (and thanks, Cimm, knowing you meant I could giggle inanely all throughout that game. Without knowing you I wouldn't have given two shits either way about a terrible game between two franchises I don't care about), I think there's more interesting stuff going on.

Jets ftw. Is Sanchez a true Sanchize after all? Who knows? But awesome. Good on the kid.

Loved that Cards-Pack game. Gotta hurt as a Pack fan. But man you guys got a great future. Has there been a public apology to your FO over the flak they got for letting go of Favre yet, by the way? Rodgers is fast taking over all his franchise single-season/single-game records (though that is as much a sign of the times as it is of the player, but he's special).

RE: blown calls. I hope you're kidding. There were a stack of calls the Cards shoulda got as well, one of the most egrerious one an obvious roughing the passer on Kurt. To me, it seemed this ref (it was only his 2nd playoff game, no?) was simply letting the game roll and didn't flag as much as another ref would. Probably part of the reason the game went as it did. Not a game where I'd consider blaming the outcome on the officiating, though, but whatever...

RE: Pete Carroll. Rah rah rah lalala omfg college coaches never succeed ahahaha poor Seahawks fans lulz running from investigation etc etc

There's a lot of cliches to unleash here and they're probably right. I'm not jumping up and down in excitement over this hiring. It was done because it's splashy, looks like, and after a very short, insufficient search. The method is off, the hiring looks dubious, no reason to be happy as a Hawks fan.

That said, the torrent of cliches is not the answer either. 'cuz...

1. Success on the college level is not a guarantee of success on the NFL level. But success on the college level is not a guarantee of failure on the NFL level either. The myriad examples of splashy college hires leading no where does not a causal relation prove, and often ignores in what kind of situations said hirings landed (see: Oakland Raiders). Not that Pete's landing in a particularly good situation.

2. Jim Mora Jr's record prior to joining the Hawks was 26-22, with a 1-1 post-season record, over a 3-year stint with the Falcons. Carroll's previous 3-year stint with the Patriots in 97-99 saw a 27-21 record with a 1-2 post-season record (so two berths, compared to Jimmy's one). It's too long ago to pretend it's meaningful, other than to point out he has NFL experience (something blatantly ignored in write-ups (not that I can take a writer who lists Aaron Curry but not Lofa Tatupu as an asset seriously, anyway)), but it is interesting to see that with similar records, Mora was embraced by local press and - to a lesser extent - fans, while Carroll is being snubbed, due to a "middling coaching record in the NFL". It is middling, true, but why does that matter for him and not for Mora? Frith, sportwriters, why must you be morons.

3. And Frith, speaking of which, it's not a good time to be a Seahawks fan. Losing seasons yeah, I don't care, we're rebuilding, sucks, it is what it is. But Inlè, the high-pitched whining makes me think I accidentally ended up following a Boston-area team rather than the Seahawks. I've never heard so much squealing from the fanbase and press, the pitch long since having reached "worst season ever" (from a historically futile franchise that has had 2-win seasons, seriously?) to "dysfunctional franchise" (again, seriously?). Even Mike Sando, hardly my favourite writer but usually a respectable beat-writer, is is frothing at the mouth writing badly-thoughtout horribly-structured pieces.

I'm not saying the Hawks aren't in disarray or didn't suck this year, or that putting a competitive team on the field looks likely within the coming couple of years, but you can overdo it in your criticism, to the point of not making any sense. Hawks have talented pieces, and young ones, especially on defense, we're not the Browns who just have Cribbs. We still have one of the best owners in the NFL who is not sitting around but looking for solutions, even if not everyone will agree with his choice (or rather Leiweke's choice, since Allen is probably not that involved, being ill).

Meanwhile we have the 6th, 14th and 40th pick in what looks like a great draft. Land us Clausen or even Bradford and I'll be happy. Hiring Alex Gibbs to deal with one of our biggest problem areas (O-line) makes me fuzzy inside even after the doubtful Carroll hire. I'd be happy to be a Hawks fan right now, at least until the draft (maybe the FO isn't looking to replace Hasselbeck/draft a QB to groom half-to-whole season behind Hasselbeck quite yet, that'd suck), only boy, it's hard to see the forest for all the whining.

 

[Sander]

Oi, where's the 'Oh god we're doomed, Carroll is a cheater' talk?

I don't know if the issue with Carroll is if he is better than Mora or not, Mora was pretty disastrous this year. The issue might be more that he's getting a 'this is our franchise head coach, he's gonna rebuild everything' contract, hype and perhaps power, without any reason to believe that he can actually do that.

Jets ftw. Is Sanchez a true Sanchize after all? Who knows? But awesome. Good on the kid.

Jets ftl. You can't say much about Sanchez based on that game, he got a bunch of short completions and one big pass off of play action to a wide, wide, wide open receiver. Then again, he hit He still looks promising and he should be a good franchise QB eventually.

Can't believe it took Rex Ryan long to figure out that putting the game in the hands of your rookie QB is not a brilliant idea.

By the way, anyone else think the Super Bowl is going to be decided on a missed chip shot?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Has there been a public apology to your FO over the flak they got for letting go of Favre yet, by the way?

No, nor will there ever be. Favre will appeal to the dumbest bumpkins more than anybody (even if Jesus was real, appeared on the field on a Sunday and led the Packers to victory) ever could. It's hard to explain, it's sickening, and yet it is a reality.

Most Packer fans, most reasonable and intelligent Packer fans, understand and agree that Rodgers is the real deal and are very excited for our future with him.

RE: blown calls. I hope you're kidding.

No, not at all...nor were any of the national sports writers who fueled the fire in my brain the next day. Look...I'm not usually one to cry about flags winning or losing a game, but those two penalties in OT which were back-to-back really determined the game in a matter of seconds. And the facemask I could live with, that shit happens and sometimes I hate that goddamn rule (though understand why it needs to be in place), it's the helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers which they let go WHILE calling holding on us. You realize holding happens on pretty much every play by each team? I mean, jesus fuck...nobody gets concussions from holding. Anyway, that game fucking broke my heart.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Man, as absolutely fascinating (read: stupid) as the whole Pats debate is (and thanks, Cimm, knowing you meant I could giggle inanely all throughout that game.

It was pretty laughable. I've seen Tecmo Bowl games with more diverse offensive playcalling (you're not coming back from 24 points down with screens and draws, sorry).

Jets ftw. Is Sanchez a true Sanchize after all? Who knows? But awesome. Good on the kid.

He has a long way to go, and he might never get there, but he's a likable kid.
He's definitely the weakest link on an otherwise pretty good team.

Has there been a public apology to your FO over the flak they got for letting go of Favre yet, by the way?

Being a fan means never having to take accountability for being fickle.

1. Success on the college level is not a guarantee of success on the NFL level. But success on the college level is not a guarantee of failure on the NFL level either.

I think the trepidation comes from high profile, untouchable, championship winning College mega-coaches of the same ilk (Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier, Denis Erickson, Nick Saban, Petrino, et al) that are abject failures in the NFL.

Jimmy Johnson was excellent wherever he coached. Tom Coughlin is a better pro coach than College coach. Can't think of anymore off the top of my head. But, there are brilliant exceptions.

Carroll's previous 3-year stint with the Patriots in 97-99 saw a 27-21 record with a 1-2 post-season record (so two berths, compared to Jimmy's one).

This is less impressive when you consider the fact that he inherited a Super Bowl team in New England, engineered by the Big Tuna himself. You see the continuous improvement as Parcells takes over a 1-win team with the #1 pick and proceed to build a SB contender within 4 years. Pete let things slide, and then his successor comes in and wins 3 SBs with a lot of the same talent.
You mention his name around here and people just kind of scoff.

He was handed the keys to a Ferrari by Parcells and he drove it like my grandmother. Then BB takes over and lights the league up.

He never got a fair shake with the Jets, but they too went right back into the playoffs the first year after he left. (Go Herm!)

Thing with Pete is. He's a real people person. He's likable, he's insipring, he's friendly, he's upbeat, he's charming. He's really a great guy, and a great human being. You could see it from his press conference the other day. I wouldn't say a negative word about him personally.

Quite simply Pete Carrol's skill set is much better suited to recruiting and motivating young kids. I don't wish to see him fail, he'll probably be - 'meh'. It's just a shame he's being forced into exile from the NCAAs because he's much more valuable as the HC of a powerhouse college program like USC.

These college are getting fucking nuts with how they are railroading guys like Leavit and Leach. Psychotic assholes? Sure they are, what other kind of personality can thrive in that kind of fishbowl? These colleges lay down with them and then get second thoughts.

Even Mike Sando, hardly my favourite writer but usually a respectable beat-writer, is

ESPN beat writers are frauds.

Can't believe it took Rex Ryan long to figure out that putting the game in the hands of your rookie QB is not a brilliant idea.

Rex is predictably defense-centric. That defense is his baby to the point that he neglected the O largely until mid-season.

To his defense, he largely left a lot of the Jet's coaching staff in place, including OC Brian Shottenheimer. So these are not his guys, and not his system. I'm not a fan of Shottenheimer, but he called a great game last week.

I'd expect Sanchez to play better than normal in his indigineous clime of SOCAL this week. The winds of the Meadowlands are notoriously unforgiving, and the kid never played in the cold his whole life. He'd never seen snow before coming here.
Not saying he's going to morph into Joe Montana overnight.

Most Packer fans, most reasonable and intelligent Packer fans, understand and agree that Rodgers is the real deal and are very excited for our future with him.

Are they the ones with the foam replica dairy products on their heads and the Paul Hornung tattoos?

Anyway, that game fucking broke my heart.

That was pretty brutal, the Patriots at least had the consideration to roll over and die on the first play rather than cock-tease us.
Thanks guys!

 

[Brother None]

Oi, where's the 'Oh god we're doomed, Carroll is a cheater' talk?

One thing sure is funny, Carroll would've never made it in under Ruskell and his "excellent personality" rule. Somewhat glad that's gone, even if I kind of liked it, it didn't work.

I don't know if the issue with Carroll is if he is better than Mora or not, Mora was pretty disastrous this year.

Was he? He lost control of the locker room at the end and the team showed no progress and that's what did him in. But how many coaches would've done better with the same talent, with Big Walt gone and Hasselbeck a shadow of his former talent? There's just not much to get out of the team as structured now. Mora failed, but like Ruskell not because he sucked, at worst because they're both average. Easy fall-guys, sure, but putting everything on them is short-sighted.

The issue might be more that he's getting a 'this is our franchise head coach, he's gonna rebuild everything' contract, hype and perhaps power, without any reason to believe that he can actually do that.

The only thing that disturbs me about that is the power. Hype schmype, and money? Paul Allen has plenty of that.

But why give this man the keys and allow him to select his supplementary GM? I honestly don't know. It seems foolish, and I certainly get the criticism. Then again, if talent eval is his forte, supplement him with a business-side GM and you might get a good coupling with enough oversight. It's worked before, I really don't know if it will now. But the people saying "no it won't" sure do look like the more likely to be correct.

He still looks promising and he should be a good franchise QB eventually.

I don't think he ever looked that promising. But the Jets are mad-talented, and set up very well for him to succeed.

By the way, anyone else think the Super Bowl is going to be decided on a missed chip shot?

Sure seems like the year for it.

No, nor will there ever be.

There should be, though. Yesno?

Most Packer fans, most reasonable and intelligent Packer fans, understand and agree that Rodgers is the real deal and are very excited for our future with him.

As well you should be.

I'm not usually one to cry about flags winning or losing a game, but those two penalties in OT which were back-to-back really determined the game in a matter of seconds.

Did they? How about turnovers and defense giving up a gaping lead meaning Rodgers could only struggle to a tie instead of a win, being the only reason for the OT to be there in the first place? Let's not miss the forest for the trees: these two were a huge factor in deciding the game because they happened right at the end. Counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's not the same thing as it being justified that the loss is purely due to officiating. No one ever loses just to the refs.

(except the Seahawks in XL, we wuz robbed)

And the facemask I could live with, that shit happens and sometimes I hate that goddamn rule (though understand why it needs to be in place), it's the helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers which they let go WHILE calling holding on us.

Again, the officiating let a lot of normally-flagged stuff on QBs go. Including facemasks and helmet to helmets on both sides. You lost so you're complaining about it. If the Cards lost, they'd be just as justified to complain about it.

You realize holding happens on pretty much every play by each team?

Of course.

Anyway, that game fucking broke my heart.

Understandable. It was that kind of game. Probably one of the most awesome playoff games I ever saw.

What I loved most were the post-game reactions from Cards players about the Pack and A-Rod.
“Let me tell you something – that dude is scary,” Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. “We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

“I don’t ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I’ll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again.”

Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): “Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing.”

The Cardinals’ star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. “Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?” he asked, laughing. “You’ve got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys – let’s just say we wouldn’t want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent.”

I can't remember the last time I heard a team speak with such awe of a team they just beat (albeit narrowly).

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Meh, adrenaline fueled back slapping. Not to take anything away from Rodgers, kid's phenomenal. But I'd be careful throwing Drew Brees' name around like that when you're on your way into his building next week.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

There should be, though. Yesno?

Well, I don't know. Who would it come from? Who should it come from?

Did they? How about turnovers and defense giving up a gaping lead meaning Rodgers could only struggle to a tie instead of a win, being the only reason for the OT to be there in the first place? Let's not miss the forest for the trees: these two were a huge factor in deciding the game because they happened right at the end. Counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's not the same thing as it being justified that the loss is purely due to officiating. No one ever loses just to the refs.

I hear your point and it's one other fans have brought up to me (i.e. "We didn't lose to a facemask we lost because we played like shit!"), but here's my point: Yes, we could have played better and it would have won the game for us. Of course. But they played just as poorly or the game wouldn't have been tied at the end and gone into OT. Indisputable, really. That's how ties happen. So, thinking about the game being brand new at OT, it was uneven in the penalty calls. That's all I'm saying. If you only look at the game from that point, it was kind of bullshit.

Understandable. It was that kind of game. Probably one of the most awesome playoff games I ever saw.

What I loved most were the post-game reactions from Cards players about the Pack and A-Rod.
“Let me tell you something – that dude is scary,” Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. “We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

“I don’t ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I’ll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again.”

Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): “Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing.”

The Cardinals’ star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. “Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?” he asked, laughing. “You’ve got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys – let’s just say we wouldn’t want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent.”

I can't remember the last time I heard a team speak with such awe of a team they just beat (albeit narrowly).

That's pretty cool.

 

[Sander]

Jimmy Johnson was excellent wherever he coached. Tom Coughlin is a better pro coach than College coach. Can't think of anymore off the top of my head. But, there are brilliant exceptions.

Bill Walsh was excellent as both a college and a pro coach.
There's no good reason why someone who made it as a college coach can't make it as a pro coach.
However, there's a simple reason why most don't: the game is played at a higher level. When you step up the level of quality required, more people are going to drop off. It shouldn't surprise anyone that most college coaches can't hack it in the pros.

Especially because a big college skill(recruitment) is largely useless in the NFL.

Thing with Pete is. He's a real people person. He's likable, he's insipring, he's friendly, he's upbeat, he's charming. He's really a great guy, and a great human being. You could see it from his press conference the other day. I wouldn't say a negative word about him personally.

I wouldn't go that far. All I can tell from his press conferences is that he seems like an upbeat, inspiring guy. But as a person - everything I know of his tenure at USC smacks of terrible as a person.

These college are getting fucking nuts with how they are railroading guys like Leavit and Leach. Psychotic assholes? Sure they are, what other kind of personality can thrive in that kind of fishbowl? These colleges lay down with them and then get second thoughts.

What?
You abuse players physically, you're out of the game as a coach. These programs have no choice once something like that comes out, and even if it doesn't come out I'd applaud them for doing that.

You don't need to beat people to get them to play hard. There are better ways to punish players and better ways to motivate them than through punishment.

One thing sure is funny, Carroll would've never made it in under Ruskell and his "excellent personality" rule. Somewhat glad that's gone, even if I kind of liked it, it didn't work.

Never heard of Ruskell doing that, though it sounds a lot like what Bill Walsh did: Walsh credited his turning around the 49ers to the mentality he installed in the organization. Rotten personalities, no matter how talented, were not allowed in.

Was he? He lost control of the locker room at the end and the team showed no progress and that's what did him in. But how many coaches would've done better with the same talent, with Big Walt gone and Hasselbeck a shadow of his former talent? There's just not much to get out of the team as structured now. Mora failed, but like Ruskell not because he sucked, at worst because they're both average. Easy fall-guys, sure, but putting everything on them is short-sighted.

Of course everything isn't on them, but they can't be absolved from the blame either.

The only thing that disturbs me about that is the power. Hype schmype, and money? Paul Allen has plenty of that.

But why give this man the keys and allow him to select his supplementary GM? I honestly don't know. It seems foolish, and I certainly get the criticism. Then again, if talent eval is his forte, supplement him with a business-side GM and you might get a good coupling with enough oversight. It's worked before, I really don't know if it will now. But the people saying "no it won't" sure do look like the more likely to be correct.

I don't know if you can scoot aside the hype that easily, it might be hyping up to a point where whatever he does, he can't fulfill the dreams.

Then again, I see mainly negativity from the fans and hype from the organization.

I don't think he ever looked that promising. But the Jets are mad-talented, and set up very well for him to succeed.

Yeah, their current formula should make it easier for Sanchez to succeed.
That said, I think Sanchez has plenty of possibility. Doesn't mean he will succeed, but he looks like he has the basic tools and he's in a great position to do so.

Meh, adrenaline fueled back slapping. Not to take anything away from Rodgers, kid's phenomenal. But I'd be careful throwing Drew Brees' name around like that when you're on your way into his building next week.

It isn't just adrenaline-fueled backslapping, you don't ever hear that kind of praise for an opponent, and there are plenty of other adrenaline-fueled moments for such praise to come out in a season.

EDIT:
AP All-Pro team is out:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d815b8c9a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Biggest snubs in my opinion: no Maurice Jones-Drew(Steven Jackson made second team), no Vincent Jackson, but worst of all: no Favre!