NFL 2009

Sander said:
I know. I've still seen comparisons to both of them, though Kevin Williams is probably a much better comparison given that Suh relies a lot on his upper-body strength. Still, Suh could play both 1- and 3-tech pretty easily.

He'd need to bulk up to play one. And I think most teams'd consider it a waste of good rushing capabilities...I'd have my doubts about how ready he is to be a quality 1-tech, considering his limitations in lower body strength and issues with leverage.

Sander said:
I wonder what your defense will look like when not every starter is injured.

And if we have an offense that can actually stay on the field.

Between Trufant, Hill, Tatupu, Mebane, Wilson and Curry, it's a very young, very talented group, but it's still one or two upgrades removed from being potentially great (a 3-tech so we can put Mebane back at one, an upgrade at safety, and possibly a DE, though interestingly our DE group is not as bad as it seems, it's just that our rotation schemes last year made it hard to judge our talent, personally I think Tapp and Jackson should do fine if they have a solid pair of DTs between 'em).
 
Yip. I like it, but I'd like it more if we'd have two serious contenders for a longer time. The only time we really had that in this decade was in the mid-early 00s when both the Hawks and Rams were good. Before that it was pure Rams, then pure Hawks, then pure Cards.

And all signs point to the 49ers being up to bat now. I'd still be nervous about Alex Smith if I were them, but between their defensive playmakers and guys like Vernon Davis and Frank Gore on offense, it's their division to lose for at least a season.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
That's some fierce division with Warner gone.
Best QB in the division: Alex Smith.
Holeee shit that is fucked up.

'Course, both the Rams and Seahawks could very well draft a QB this year. Even the '49ers could.

'49ers should dominate that division this year, really, if they can manage to keep Alex Smith from mucking up too much.

Bucs are probably going to amount to nothing again next year. Having the Saints in the division is bad enough, but the Falcons look to improve a lot by having Matt Ryan and Michael Turner healthy and the Panthers can just run all over us with their two Pro Bowl level backs and our asstarded run defense (unless we seriously upgrade on defense in the draft).

Then again, there are 4 games against the NFC West in the schedule, plus the Lions, Browns and Redskins.
 
Sander said:
Then again, there are 4 games against the NFC West in the schedule, plus the Lions, Browns and Redskins.
Wow, remind me not to watch those. Jeez, you guys are depressing me with all that NFC West/South talk.

Personally, I'm all abuzz about the impending Belichik masterstrokes, he' such a shrewd, calculating bastard. He's got a lot of ammunition this off-season and, well hell, there is no cap! He's going to fuck some really desperate, stupid teams (Hi Al!) over.
All within the rules of course. :wink: Be interesting to see how he handles things since all his lieuts. are long gone and he's running the show himself. This team just bleeds coordinators. They all suck as HCs too - Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McD. Nice how KC has become Foxboro West.

Heh - Peppers just got cut.
Wicked pissah. :mrgreen:

edit: Tomlinson, Sharper and Westbrook released too. LDT is spent, but Westbrook must be real banged up for the Eagles to dump him. Pity, Westbrook was all you could ask for in a HB. He was the total package.
 
I think Hass still has one good season left in him, provided he's healthy and he gets along with Carroll. An improved defense and a better coach (?) would make everything easier for him.

The only time I watched Seattle last year was when they played in Green Bay, and the only thing that stuck out to me was Forsett. I thought he looked very good. I wouldn't want to rely on him to carry the entire load over a whole season, though, so I could see PC reuniting with LandWhale.

The Packers first pick is tough to predict this year. They need an OT, but Ted won't draft the 5th or 6th best one with a 1st rounder. I think he'll either trade up to get one of the good ones, or trade down. In either case he'll take the BPA on his top secret list.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
edit: Tomlinson, Sharper and Westbrook released too. LDT is spent, but Westbrook must be real banged up for the Eagles to dump him. Pity, Westbrook was all you could ask for in a HB. He was the total package.
I think Westbrook was going to earn $7M next year. That's too much to eat for an old man with so many injury problems. Besides, RBs aren't known for longevity. Tomlinson is basically done too.

More surprising is that Sproles may get released, though Sproles looked crappy last year too.
UniversalWolf said:
I think Hass still has one good season left in him, provided he's healthy and he gets along with Carroll. An improved defense and a better coach (?) would make everything easier for him.
Hasselbeck has missed 11 games over the past two seasons and looked really, really bad toward the end of the season. Maybe (maybe) they can squeeze a season out of him, but they need a replacement pretty badly.

Also, the Bucs first pick is a mess. McCoy or Suh if available, but if they're both gone - no one knows. I've heard Berry, Haden, Dez Bryant, Price(wtf), Rolando McClain (Ruud may not be the greatest, but this just seems a waste), Pierre-Paul(ugh), Derrick Morgan (eh), trading down, Okung, Bulaga. Impossible to predict, 'cause we have so many holes.
 
Sabby Piscitelli said:
Hasselbeck has missed 11 games over the past two seasons and looked really, really bad toward the end of the season. Maybe (maybe) they can squeeze a season out of him, but they need a replacement pretty badly.
True, but the whole team was in disarray last year. Hass is not good enough to carry them by himself, but if the team does better, Hass will do better. He's still got the ability to do that. No doubt they need a replacement for the future though.

The Bucs should take the BPA. Period.
 
UniversalWolf said:
True, but the whole team was in disarray last year. Hass is not good enough to carry them by himself, but if the team does better, Hass will do better. He's still got the ability to do that. No doubt they need a replacement for the future though.

The Bucs should take the BPA. Period.
No one's really disputing that, except if the best player available is a QB or maybe an RB (it won't be an RB), LT isn't a need either now that we tendered Penn. The problem is that at 3, if McCoy and Suh are gone, many players are considered more or less equal.

That said, a groundswell for Bradford to the Rams seems to be building after Schefter claimed that there is no way the Rams don't take a QB #1. Now that Bradford clocked in at 236lbs instead of 224(the gain is supposed to be all muscle, too), that improves his stock and removes a few doubts about durability. If that happens, there's no way the Bucs don't take whoever is left of Suh and McCoy.
 
Man, I just wrote this really tight post on the absurd rookie payscale for the top5 or so, how it's an albatross to these teams, and defeats the purpose of a parity driven system where the worst picks first. Then I went off on how QB development is a lost art, there's no competent backup QBs anymore, but the league still insists on rewriting the rules to prop up these clowns because a passing league is more attractive to housewives.
Then my session times out and I lost it.


Not worried about the draft. In Bill We Trust. 4 Picks in the top 53, they didn't just fall out of trees. Plus the fact he got a first rounder next year when Seymour'd be walking for nothing now anyway. Nice. Raider's 1st pick no less.
Dude, it is so much better being a Patriots fan now than when I was a kid. Couldn't ask for better ownership/coaching.


I'm all over Tebow...


come 4th round.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Man, I just wrote this really tight post on the absurd rookie payscale for the top5 or so, how it's an albatross to these teams, and defeats the purpose of a parity driven system where the worst picks first. Then I went off on how QB development is a lost art, there's no competent backup QBs anymore, but the league still insists on rewriting the rules to prop up these clowns because a passing league is more attractive to housewives.
Then my session times out and I lost it.
Use Firefox and/or Chrome. Maybe Opera too.

And yeah, everyone thinks a rookie payscale should be used (and probably will be after the CBA talks are done).

Also, we've heard your diatribe on passing a thousand times already. ;)

Cimmerian Nights said:
Not worried about the draft. In Bill We Trust. 4 Picks in the top 53, they didn't just fall out of trees. Plus the fact he got a first rounder next year when Seymour'd be walking for nothing now anyway. Nice. Raider's 1st pick no less.
Dude, it is so much better being a Patriots fan now than when I was a kid. Couldn't ask for better ownership/coaching.


I'm all over Tebow...


come 4th round.
This draft is so deep. I love that the Bucs have 10 picks, and 5 in the top 99.
 
Sabby Piscitelli said:
Also, we've heard your diatribe on passing a thousand times already. ;)
I'd retype it, but these goddamn kids won't get off my lawn! :shakes fist:
I really just don't have a fondness for QBs, especially bad ones, going back to my playing days, even the ones on my own team. The QB position is slowly morphing into a non-contact position like kicker. QBs used to be much tougher, and like I said before rather than see the game evolve into the mammoth QB era to compensate for larger/faster defenders, we get gay rules that limit the actual playing of football.

Contrast this to how the NFL treats running backs. Watch how a bone fide HOF like Tomlinson gets shown the door, happens every year. See I would never fault guys like Brown or Sanders for leaving on their own terms. I don't even blame Ricky Williams for bailing on the NFL time after time to smoke refer in Nepal. Guy is probably only still playing today because he took time off from pounding the rock. NFL will drop him like a bad habit when his knees break down, he turns 31 and his YPC drops under 3. Ricky who? Heisman what? Rushing title when?



I'll have to substitute one of my other rants, this time on the selection of cities just to suit a national TV contract. OK, we're getting a UFL team in my home town here. Season tickets are only $100, but I still don't know if I can sit through 5 UFL games. I'd love to get excited, but I think a UFL team will rank below UCONN or even HS football on the food chain here. Hard to get excited about a product like that. Anyway, my city (or market Hartford/New Haven) is the 28th-30th largest media market in the US depending where you check. Logic might dictate that a league with 32 teams might want to exploit that. Instead, we get teams in:
Jacksonville - 47
NOLA - 51
Buffalo - 52
Green Bay - 70

So basically the league values geographical coverage (FLA panhandle, Upstate NY, Gulf Coast area, and frozen wasteland) over maximum market penetration for their TV contract. A sound strategy? Not if you look at attendance in Jacksonville - were any of their home games not blacked out this year?. Meanwhile, my area is staked out by NY and Boston, and like the Mafia around here, they'd never let someone cut in on their territory. Now, being that we have the "New England" Patriots, and really they are closer to Providence than Boston, I'll jump onboard.
But I think it's bullshit that I live in a major league size town, but we get stuck with minor league products due to our proximity to NYC and Boston while minor league towns like Jacksonville get a team that they don't support. It's a travesty, I know. A greater injustice never was endured by a city. And how does your #2 market in LA still not have a team? Man, as far gone as Al Davis is now, you kind of have to respect how he's never taken any shit from the NFL. Time for another realignment, franchise shake-up. I'm telling you, Buffalo and Jacksonville's days are numbered.
 
Don't you think the geographical spread is a huge boost to the NFL's popularity as a whole? Sure, sucks for stadium attendance in small markets, and sucks for cities like yours, but do you honestly think the sport's reach/popularity would improve by sticking all times in the crowded North-East? That's bullshit.

Cimmerian Nights said:
Contrast this to how the NFL treats running backs.

So wait, are you arguing that's a good thing and that this is how we should treat our QBs too.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Contrast this to how the NFL treats running backs. Watch how a bone fide HOF like Tomlinson gets shown the door, happens every year.
The RB position is so much different for a lot of reasons. For one, there are plenty competent RBs to service every team out there and then some. RBs deteriorate so much faster, and the difference in quality between the worst and best RBs isn't close to the difference between the best and worst QBs.

The problem with QBs is really value: when a team has a guy that can throw the ball, he makes the team so much better that teams are going to do everything they possibly can to keep the QB and keep him healthy.
Unless the team is run by Josh McDaniels.


Cimmerian Nights said:
I'll have to substitute one of my other rants, this time on the selection of cities just to suit a national TV contract. OK, we're getting a UFL team in my home town here. Season tickets are only $100, but I still don't know if I can sit through 5 UFL games. I'd love to get excited, but I think a UFL team will rank below UCONN or even HS football on the food chain here. Hard to get excited about a product like that. Anyway, my city (or market Hartford/New Haven) is the 28th-30th largest media market in the US depending where you check. Logic might dictate that a league with 32 teams might want to exploit that. Instead, we get teams in:
Jacksonville - 47
NOLA - 51
Buffalo - 52
Green Bay - 70

So basically the league values geographical coverage (FLA panhandle, Upstate NY, Gulf Coast area, and frozen wasteland) over maximum market penetration for their TV contract. A sound strategy? Not if you look at attendance in Jacksonville - were any of their home games not blacked out this year?. Meanwhile, my area is staked out by NY and Boston, and like the Mafia around here, they'd never let someone cut in on their territory. Now, being that we have the "New England" Patriots, and really they are closer to Providence than Boston, I'll jump onboard.
But I think it's bullshit that I live in a major league size town, but we get stuck with minor league products due to our proximity to NYC and Boston while minor league towns like Jacksonville get a team that they don't support. It's a travesty, I know. A greater injustice never was endured by a city. And how does your #2 market in LA still not have a team? Man, as far gone as Al Davis is now, you kind of have to respect how he's never taken any shit from the NFL. Time for another realignment, franchise shake-up. I'm telling you, Buffalo and Jacksonville's days are numbered.
Geographical distribution makes so much more sense, as it simply gives more people the chance to root for a team, hence increasing the total market. You follow the Pats now, and hence there's no need for the NFL to cater to your media market specifically.
 
Brother None said:
Don't you think the geographical spread is a huge boost to the NFL's popularity as a whole? Sure, sucks for stadium attendance in small markets, and sucks for cities like yours, but do you honestly think the sport's reach/popularity would improve by sticking all times in the crowded North-East? That's bullshit.
Not in Jacksonville and Buffalo, Florida and New York already had 2 teams and Jacksonville and Buffalo are shithole towns.
I could care less about the NFL's reach if it's going to mean expanding into already saturated markets like that and then not get attendance anyway, and I'm really not keen on Goodell's designs to expand to outside North America. Toronto or Mexico I see as viable. But beyond that (Tokyo, London?) is a logistical nightmare. I get jetlag just hearing the name Narita. If you look at a map the geographical coverage is still lacking. From the Mississippi to the Rockies is not very well represented.

The NE is the densest, and also the richest per capita. Basicaly we get screwed for no other reason than our proximity to NYC and Boston. I'd be all for supporting a viable alternative that does come into our market, but the UFL is hard to get excited about.


So wait, are you arguing that's a good thing and that this is how we should treat our QBs too.
No, I just think it's an interesting contrast in how the league has fashioned rules governing different positions are treated as it regards health and longevity.

You follow the Pats now, and hence there's no need for the NFL to cater to your media market specifically.
So upstate NY fans still don't have 2 NY teams to chose from? JAX fans don't have 2 in-state teams to chose from? The Patriots are unique in that they aren't really a Boston team, they are nominally and geographically a New England team, and as such the only "home" team I have. That doesn't stop all the NYC teams from flooding our market too. Shit the Giants used to play in the Yale Bowl in New Haven for many years.

Yeah I can drive 90 minutes and see either a Jets/Giants or Pats game. That's valuable hangover sleep time on a Sunday morning you're asking me to sacrifice man!

I'm just venting that we live in a totally viable pro market but we take a backseat to minor league towns due to bullshit geographic reasons. I'll excuse GB due to longevity, unique ownership, and the fact that have a rabid following. But it sucks to see a backwater shithole like JAX get an expansion team and not support their team, while we get shafted with some fly-by-night UFL scraps that fell off the table.

edit: The biggest indignity of all is that the Patriots were to become the Hartford Patriots and they pulled out at the 11th hour. They basically used Conn. to bluff Mass. lawmakers into shelling out for a new stadium and infrastructure. We also lost our NHL team to a city that has no ice.


edit: The UFL may have the perfect storm brewing if the NFL is dumb enough to lock out. They'll never be (nor do I think they have designs on being) a competitor, but a viable alternative. A lockout could propel them to the next level of interest. If there was no NFL season and some players jumped ship things could have potential for something greater.


Also I'm surprised how many fairly good yet flawed vets are being let go heading into this uncapped year. I can't remember a year with so many quality starters being released (granted they are older guys that want long term deals). I thought more teams would be opening the coffers, but it doesn't seem like anyone is chomping at the bit.
I think we're actually going to see the opposite happen (outside the usual binge spenders Snyder and JJ). I see a lot of teams spending at or below the cap floor now that there won't be one. You're going to see a MLB type situation where small market teams like Buffalo take their shared TV contract money and pocket it instead of reinvesting. Probably more profitable than pissing away money on has-beens like LDT or slackers like Peppers.



Also, I'm starting to turn the corner on Tebow, again. Much like Favre, I'm now more sick of the incessant, shrill complaining from the peanut gallery then any perceived or manufactured personal affront these guys could ever possibly commit against me. Anytime the American mainstream latches onto something like this so fiercely, it's always a sign for me to disavow it and step away.
Sure, he's a maddeningly squeakey clean, goody two-shoes.
Yes, he's everything that fatass, lazy, excuse-making, middle America is not, and that's probably where the hate comes from. He's Mr. Perfect. He's what the fat fucking slob in line at Walmart can never even entertain the thought of becoming because that might require some personal fucking discipline and the ability to say no Twinkies and get off the sofa. Tebow makes us all look like lazy, morally vacant retards and we hate him for it. Same reason fat chicks hate Barbie dolls. It makes them look bad and feel inferior in comparison.

Are we as a nation incapable of evaluating this kid's ability to succeed at the NFL level without slagging him personally every step of the way? The snide, snarky haterism and flak that this kid catches is unprecedented. I don't really care about his religion or the fact that he's an overgrown Boy Scout. I think people are too wrapped up in throwing poo at the kid to see that he actually can accomplish something in the NFL (even if it is as an H-back. I personally love a weapon like the H-back position).
I think a lot of people are missing the point: Can he play football at the NFL level? Is he a QB or an TE/WR/H-Back/Slash?

If I had to wager, he probably does belong in that Tommy Frazier, Vince Young, Charlie Ward type "athletic, winner College QB" category. But the way they get on this kid, I would never question the way another Heisman/Champion QB like Ward never even entertained the though of joining the NFL.
If you're a college kid and have half a brain, you'd be dumb not to sign with the MLB or NBA over the NFL if you can. Longevity, guaranteed contracts, , more groupies, free steroids. Bo knows.

And I realize that people get on Tebow not because who he is, or who he tries to present himself as, but how outlets like ESPN canonize him like the second coming and just beat you over the head with how great he is. But the pendulum is swinging the other way for me now. The Tebow haters are becoming so shrill it's making me want to support the kid.

I would love to see Tebow come to the Pats (you wouldn't be allowed to pick him higher then where Brady went on principle's sake) just to piss off the haters. The combined Pats/Tebow loser-backlash hatred would reach unprecedented levels. Most of the criticism people level against both just reeks of losers ensconced in outright denial to begin with.

Besides, even if you hate Tebow wouldn't you want a saintly choir boy like him under the thumb of a ruthless, diabolical, Machiavellian like Belichik?
 
The unsubstantiated rumor in Minnesota is that Randy Moss is coming home, since he's feuding with the Pats management. This is supposed to guarantee Favre's return. Just FYI.

:P
 
UniversalWolf said:
The unsubstantiated rumor in Minnesota is that Randy Moss is coming home, since he's feuding with the Pats management. This is supposed to guarantee Favre's return. Just FYI.

:P

*punches NFL in the groin*
 
All they need to do now is draft Tebow to serve as their QB of the future.
 
Drama queen. If he can't throw the football, I don't care what his beliefs on anything are. If he can't play in the NFL, there's where my interest in Tim Tebow ends.

UniversalWolf said:
The unsubstantiated rumor in Minnesota is that Randy Moss is coming home, since he's feuding with the Pats management. This is supposed to guarantee Favre's return. Just FYI.

:P
I always felt sympathy for Vikes fans, until I came into contact with them on the internet, especially with this story.
They are truly delusional. And cocky. I love the idea that NE will take Berrian and eat his salary in exchange for the teams only legit receiver. That's cute. Coming home. Feuding. They really believe that. I consider myself an optimist too, but these people are dense.
Like the whole league exists only to please Viking fans.


edit:
Nice postmortem on the Rams unrealized dynasty over at CHFF.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3160_The_near_dynasty%3A_the_Greatest_Show_on_Turf.html
 
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