NFL 2010

[Cimmerian Nights]

A bunch of fines is an overreaction? Out of nowhere? They've been fining for these hits for ages now. Suspensions, that would've been out of nowhere.

Well, if deputy commissioner Rodney Harrison has his way...He's like that born again Christian who doesn't want other people to party anymore.

Way to not get it. The point is people are focused on results. If something bad happened as a result of the play they will automatically assume foul play. That's not really the way it works. Once they understand that we might get somewhere

I don't think the game needs to be changed to accommodate people who just flipped the channel from ladies figure skating and can't distinguish a clean but hard hit from a cheap shot.

That's what it's about, not upsetting sponsors and middle America, not safety. If it's safety, then everyone who ever got tackled by Night Train Lane should form a class action lawsuit against the NFL for negligence.

It's disingenuous, it's hypocritical.

Who cares.

Me, if I liked being stroked off I'd follow politics instead of football. At least they kiss you before they fuck you.

I didn't question his manhood. But I am absolutely eating it up how you have absolutely no valid reaction to him being a little bitch about QB-supporting rules. Keep dancing, puppet. Or just admit your QB is no better than PeyPey.

Dude, I bitch about Manning because he's a Colt, and he's really fucking good. I can back up my Manning hate though.
Most of the shrill Brady bashing revolves around his hair, his choice of spouse and that he looks like a Calvin Klein model.

What, his gold jacket. As delusional as they come. Par for the course for your region, I hear

Somebody thought he was worth a 1st rounder. He's no HOFer, but he'll retire with better stats than Swann and he's in. If any Patriot WR ever went to Canton it would be Stanley Morgan first.

I do love Deion Branch though, but he's a Patriot's HOFer, not a NFL HOFer.

But they have started doing more for ex-players.

After being publicly shamed into it for years.

Listen to poor Mark Schlereth's sob story.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlLjPswUfRs[/youtube]
The man can't bend his knee when he sits on a stool for the chummy informal sequences of NFL Live for goodness sake.

For the record, Moment of Impact is a classic, and on Youtube IIRC. Check it out. The John Lynch bits are deliciously devastating. I wonder if he's retroactively liable for those hits.

I guess the same doesn't go for hating on Peyton.

Actually it does, I don't like over-privileged crackers in RL either. Peyton Manning is the quintessential "guy who was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple".

It's fun to see how badly they gaffed on this. Punches a temporary hole in the NFL's relentless propaganda machine.

Have to agree, I'm usually in favor of a lot of the moves the NFL makes, especially in comparison to the other major leagues. The NFL isn't #1 by accident. But all I've been hearing about is ex-players coming out against it. Even that Schlereth rant, I'm surprised that ESPN is allowing such anti-NFL candor when usually they are so reverent and deferential.

They overreacted and they didn't deliberate long enough.
It's a PR move. Nothing to see here, move along, shows over. Now lets all go back to pointing the finger at MMA.

PS: didn't the "extend to 18" arguments all apply to "extend to 16" too? Shouldn't we then go back to 14?

Not really, because there was no pretense about player safety back then.

I don't even think this would be an issue if it was 3 O-lineman that got hit.


edit:
OK I just found Moment of Impact. I'm 30 seconds into the John Lynch one...just watch it and count the number of helmet-to-helmet shots for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omZMloRCtUM

 

[BarackSays]

I hope James Harrison actually retires.

 

[UniversalWolf]

League apologists are on a shrinking island on this issue. I can't ever remember the players mocking the NFL so openly before.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, the league is really hurting right now, what with declining TV numbers and shit...

Oh wait.

As a business model, it's a great success. The players are whining as much as a part of business too since they're still looking for more leverage on the new CBA negotiations.

You may not like it, but so far you can't question the success of this model. And honestly, in the end of the day, that's all that counts. A bunch of old-schoolers moaning won't change their mind. You'd have to hit them in the wallet for it. And you won't.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Looking at post-lockout NHL, post-Jordan NBA, post-strike/steroids MLB, and Tigerless PGA I wouldn't expect the NFL's dominance to last forever. A strike, the loss of a marque players, weariness with all the bad officiating, over-expansion leading to watered down competition, counter intuitive scheduling, greedy owners, slimy agents, scumbag players, the police reports, the drugs, the lying, the lack of passion for the game, recession, higher ticket prices, PSLs, rapacious concessions, sweetheart deals. There's also a lot of just plain bad football in the NFL too.

I don't see what the NFL has that inherently makes it immune to the downfall that all other sports have gone through. Baseball was certainly king for a long long time, yet people walked away in droves. NHL still struggling bad after their lockout.

It's not like there's no alternative to the NFL. The college game is easily more exciting and devoid of all the baggage that comes with the NFL.

I see more blackouts than ever. The collapse of Jacksonville is inevitable, Buffalo's next. People seem to forget why LA lost 2 teams already.

How about the NFL teams that take that TV contract money, and instead of investing in something that will improve the on-the-field product, pocket the money and spend at league minimum? If they lowered the cap, you can't tell me that the Bucs wouldn't sink to it. Don't you just love when organizations bring that much passion for football to the table?

Don't get me wrong, I love the NFL, but I have no problem walking away from it like the NHL post lockout and post Hartford Whalers. I lived overseas for years w/o NFL and somehow found a way to function.

Goodell is a couple more snap, PR based, protective decisions away from being seen in the same light that dbs like Selig, Bettman and Stern are. I've been in favor of most of what has Goodell has done up to this point, but I don't like his decision in this case, or how it seems like it was ramrodded through mid-season just because it was a hot-button issue and Harrison and Dungy were harping about it on nat'l TV.

 

[Brother None]

The difference is that all those other sports are pretty faggy, dude.

Also, while the lockout is one thing, it's hard to deny that a softball game for the offense has coincided with a boom in the NFL's popularity. I'm not asking you to like it, but you could at least acknowledge it.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The difference is that all those other sports are pretty faggy, dude.

(Non-European) NHL players put the NFL to shame when it comes to hitting, carnage, ugly incidents, malicious acts and coping with injuries. Not only that but they don't need referees and fines to exact justice, they police themselves regardless of what the NHL does. It's not uncommon for the police and courts to get involved some hockey violence is so nasty.
If somebody hit Wayne Gretzky like Todd Heap got hit, he would not leave the stadium with the same number of teeth that he entered with.

Here's what happens when you get hit high crossing over the middle in the NHL:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8rCFe6VdPs[/youtube]
Which one of the big bad Ravens stuck up for their boy Heap? Penalties, fines, suspensions - that's for faggots.

Cheap shot Bobby Orr in Boston and expect fans to get their pound of flesh too:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWpW-Z3BmY
[/youtube]

I notice a lot of people who don't like violence on their feet and cheering in those.

Also, while the lockout is one thing, it's hard to deny that a softball game for the offense has coincided with a boom in the NFL's popularity. I'm not asking you to like it, but you could at least acknowledge it.

All that tells me is that they're pandering to the mainstream's whims, which in the long run, probably isn't a great idea to tweak the game on a week to week basis to appease a crowd who's consciousness of the sport is superficial and doesn't really extend past the news cycle that hot button topics like this last week presented.

I don't doubt it's profitable, but so isn't MacDonald's and all the disposable plastic Chinese shit at Walmart. Profitbale rubbish.

You're not arguing what's good for football, just what makes the NFL owners more money, two things that aren't necessarily congruous.



edit: It is funny how this player safety charade only protects offensive players, point scorers and big contract guys.

Why are chop blocks still legal on run plays?

Because again, the league needs to prop up and overinflate lackluster offenses since they want to woo females.
How is a defender already engaged with a lineman not defenseless when someone comes in from behind and cuts out his knees?
Double standard much.

Again, this is a problem of their own making. They over expanded and there aren't enough competent QBs and other offensive skill players to support the number of teams to the level of offensive output they need to court the fickle attention spans of the masses. So just keep lowering the bar and lowering the bar to compensate. That's a great model for sustained success.


Oh yeah and this from Vikes locker room if you haven't seen it already:

 

[UniversalWolf]

NHL players put the NFL to shame when it comes to hitting, carnage, ugly incidents, malicious acts and coping with injuries. Not only that but they don't need referees and fines to exact justice, they police themselves regardless of what the NHL does.

I agree with both points. Meddling from the league doesn't solve the problem -- if it even is a problem. I'd call it an unavoidable consequence.

An organic, bottom-up, anything-you-can-do-to-me-I-can-do-to-you, approach is the way to go. That approach won't happen because bad things will still happen sometimes, and foolish people will say, "We have to do something!" In a properly-played football game, the Desean Jacksons of the world will sometimes get nailed by the Dunta Robinsons of the world. It happens.

BTW, the Iowa/Wisconsin game on Saturday was fantastic: evenly matched teams and they both played great with very few mistakes. It was a seesaw battle with one 80-yard, 15-play drive after another. I can't remember the last time I saw two teams play that good simultaneously.

 

[Sander]

Normal helmet-to-helmet hits that happen in the course of play aren't a problem. I have no idea why the league is so worried about the Dunta Robinson hit - that was perfectly normal. But that Meriweather hit is typically something that has no place in this sport: launching yourself helmet-to-helmet into a defenseless receiver. That's not accidental helmet-to-helmet contact, that's malicious.

Also, Bucs are 4-2! Ugly, ugly win, again, but I'll take it. If the Bucs mount a playoff run, that'd be hilarious.

PS: Packers fans booing Brett Favre. Favre has earned it with his attention whoring.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Also, Bucs are 4-2! Ugly, ugly win, again, but I'll take it. If the Bucs mount a playoff run, that'd be hilarious.

The thing you have to be feeling good about is Freeman's habit of throwing the winning TD pass in close games. QBs are generally either clutch players or not clutch players; and if they're not, they can't learn it. Freeman's definitely a clutch player, even if he still makes mistakes sometimes.

I'd say the Vikings just got Beared by the Packers.

 

[Brother None]

Seahawks 3rd in the NFC!!!

NFC kind of sucks!!!

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

the Desean Jacksons of the world will sometimes get nailed by the Dunta Robinsons of the world.

Especially when the Kevin Kolbs of the world throw to him on a crossing pattern in between zone coverage where Robinson is waiting for him, drooling like Pavlov's dog on the other side of the zone. Good QBs don't do that to their WRs. But who has the balls to hold him and McCoy accountable?
Howie does.

The other point of contention I have is - why is the NFL the only major league sport who's on-the-field officiating body is made up entirely of part-time employees? They made a big deal about this a couple years ago when Hochuli blew that Cutler fumble call and it came to consciousness that he and all the other refs work M-F 9-5 as lawyers and whatnot, and on Sunday suit up and officiate. That's great that these are well-rounded pillars of the community, but if enforcing player safety is so key why not employ full-time Refs and have them study film, debate calls, and otherwise firm up the grey areas during the week? Another thing, they seem mostly to be over 50 - which you want somebody mature, but if you keep at the silly spot-foul PI ruling, then the old fart better damn well be in position to make the call.

NFC kind of sucks!!!

I'm kind of split on parity. Upward mobility and competition are great, but they are at the expense of having elite powerhouse juggernauts and a general flattening of the curve. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction, for every parity rags-to-riches story there's a whole lot of wasted talent (Charger, Vikes, Cowboys) and just plain shit teams (who would actually pay money to see a Bears game?).

Not that I'm complaining about the Chargers fuckups, couldn't get enough of those yesterday.

Also, Bucs are 4-2! Ugly, ugly win, again, but I'll take it. If the Bucs mount a playoff run, that'd be hilarious.

Embrace the ugly win. This isn't college where they factor in strength of schedule and win differentials. A W is a W and it's the only stat that matters at then end of the day.

 

[Sander]

The other point of contention I have is - why is the NFL the only major league sport who's on-the-field officiating body is made up entirely of part-time employees?

They're not. All football/soccer refs are part-time employees.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I meant in N. America, incidentally, what's the quality of officiating like in this Foosball game you speak of?

 

[Sander]

Everyone complains about it but it's honestly not that bad. The game isn't exactly set up to be easy to ref.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I give the NFL credit for being very progressive and proactive when it comes to integrating technology and being willing to experiment. Even Instant Replay has to be looked at as an experimental work in progress. Good example of how they implement, tweak, revisit and fine tune new tech into the system. It's come a long way and leaves sports like baseball in the dust.


Foxboro. Halloween. Favre's brittle, arthritic foot in a cast.
Joy!

Now all we need is one of those good old Jets implosions that they are so good at. That team just has too much fucking talent though.

Can't wait to unleash some scorned Woodhead on them.

 

[Brother None]

I sum up the MNF game

 

[SimpleMinded]

I only watched the first few minutes of the MNF game and it was hilarious watching the two back-to-back Manning interceptions. Wow though, checking the score this morning, definitely went in a different way.

Out of curiosity on the helmet to helmet issue, rather than punishing for these hits to try and prevent them, would it be possible to change the technology in the helmets that could protect the players more without bastardizing the sport as Cimm describes it?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I know, as soon as you start thinking Eli is a worthless pathetic QB (I was really shocked after the Newman dropped the first pass and snagged the next) he roars back. He's a funny dude.

I think it's time for Jerry Jones to assume Al Davis' mantle as senile, deluded old owner. They both had their heydays, but Al actually went to a couple championships and a SB in the last decade. Cowboys have what, 1 playoff win in 17 years now?

I wonder if JJ will hire Chucky? Cowher? Billick? Who would want to work for Jerry Jones the way he meddles and interferes?

Out of curiosity on the helmet to helmet issue, rather than punishing for these hits to try and prevent them, would it be possible to change the technology in the helmets that could protect the players more without bastardizing the sport as Cimm describes it?

I'd be worried that that would actually encourage more, like giving them immunity.
I heard some former player grumbling about how they have these exclusive licensing deals with apparel and equipment companies that might compromise a move like that. I guess they sign a contract with a company like Reebok for jerseys or Nike for cleats or Riddell for helmets. So I guess his point was that they sign on with companies due to cross-promotional marketing reasons instead of choosing the company that makes the safest helmet. The company gives them a deal on helmets in exchange for the right to call themselves "The Official XYZ maker of the NFL". I don't know how much credence I give to that, but there hasn't been any advances in helmets in years to my knowledge, and nobody can tell me companies aren't trying. The NFL uses close to the same helmets we wore as kids in HS. Those helmets with the air pump you stick in the top.
The UFL seems to have more modern, hockey looking helmets. I have no idea what goes into making a safe helmet or if they are just aesthetically different though.

There was that Mark Kelso helmet shell thingy back in the 90s. I see Hockey and Lacrosse helmets have evolveded an awful lot in the last 20 years. Bike helmets did not exist when we were kids and suddenly there is a massive industry for that. Kids wear ski and snowboard helmets now too. I have to think there are a lot of people doing a lot of R&D into safe helmets out there.

A lot of the concussions (Cutler's) are heads hitting turf anyway.

And who are these HS and College coaches that are teaching kids to spear and lead with the helmet that people are pointing the finger at? If anything, at that level they are more protective since most kids are playing for fun and not a hyper-competitive career.
"Well, they're going to have to reteach these kids" Unless Andre Waters is your HS coach, nobody is teaching you to play like that.


edit: One thing about that stadium. As an experience, it looks peerless. My one gripe - I just felt embarrassed when the team has to walk out through a sports bar full of gawkers to get to the field. It seems so tacky to me.

I can't remember a 1-5 team ever getting this much juice, can we move on now? Cowboys are the most overrated team of the last 20 years.


Patriots on top of the standings at 5-1, living proof that it's better to be lucky than good.


edit X2:
Dude, WTF is up with the Packers and Colts, did they hire Dr. Mengele as their S&C coach?

 

[UniversalWolf]

Dude, WTF is up with the Packers and Colts, did they hire Dr. Mengele as their S&C coach?

Just bad luck I guess. Brady Poppinga's out for the year now, too.

Even though GB's season is over in terms of any kind of championship potential, I have to say it's strangely entertaining to see them trying to run that 3-4 with two 270-ish lb. DEs (one a rookie, the other a second-year player who didn't make the opening day roster), a bunch of backup LBs, and a third-string safety. They stuck T.J. Lang in at DE on short-yardage plays even though he's an O-lineman, just because they needed the bulk. It's a beer-cans-and-bailing-wire situation.

Clifton actually played great against Jared Allen. I guess he can still get it done when he's healthy.

I picked Dallas to disappoint this year, but even I'm surprised by how undisciplined they've become. They need a new coach to come in and crack some skulls. Gruden could probably pull it off.