NFL 2010

[Cimmerian Nights]

I've seen people predicting all sorts of different scenarios for the Packers.

There's a couple more wrinkles in this already unique set of offseason circumstances that is further clouding things for everyone.

Now that the draft is moving into 'prime time', Day 1 is only the first round, with round 2 the following day. Whereas in previous years I think it was rounds 1 through 3 all in succession. Given the depth of talent, after round 1 shakes out, given a night off in between (instead of 15 minutes), I think there's going to be a lot of trades for 2nd round picks or later for teams that want to jockey for position and ensure they get who they want.

I think come training camp, there's going to be another round of cuts, especially on the veteran side. The Pats for example are just going to sit on Adalius Thomas until the last possible moment to cut. I'm sure once the rookies get into camp and things start gelling, others teams will do the same to clear roster space.

Also, probably no end in sight for CBA, so the uncertainty will probably have some effect too.

As for Tebow...

And I just want to say, I've professed my love for Buddy Ryan's Eagle D on many an occasion, Reggie White was one of my idols growing up, but I'm watching this last night (see ~5:30 - cool video overall)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGlKRysBUVQ[/youtube]
As soon as I hear the name Jesus my brain just tunes out, then the gospel music kicks in and my eyes glaze over. If people are going to complain about having religion shoved down their throats, at least hold everyone to the same standard. I think with Tebow, people really stretch to find reasons to love him or hate him. It looks pretty bigoted on both sides. I just want to see if he can play football, or not. Beyond that, I have no use for him or his beliefs.

And yeah, I'd love to see a boyscout like Tebow, who by all accounts is a real obedient "yes sir, no sir" type get paired up with someone like Al Davis or Belichik.
Davis still has a hard-on for JaMarcus apparently. Man WTF happened to the Raiders, look back at all the great picks they had over the years - Heisman winners, All-Pros, HoFers all over the place. Davis is out of his mind to stubbornly stay with the same "long ball" philosophy from the 70s. It's sad really, because the Raiders (love 'em or hate 'em) are one of those teams - like Steelers, Cowboys, Packers - that make the NFL better when they are good.


Man, they're talking suspension for Roethlisberger.
What a bonehead.
You'd think he would've learned after what happened to Quantrell Bishop.

 

[Brother None]

Suspending Big Ben before a court decision is made would be beyond idiotic.

Also FFS nobody gives a shit about Tebow why won't people just stop talking about him? 2nd-round QBs aren't that interesting.

Now that the draft is moving into 'prime time', Day 1 is only the first round, with round 2 the following day. Whereas in previous years I think it was rounds 1 through 3 all in succession. Given the depth of talent, after round 1 shakes out, given a night off in between (instead of 15 minutes), I think there's going to be a lot of trades for 2nd round picks or later for teams that want to jockey for position and ensure they get who they want.

Round 1 to 3 for a while, yeah, but they've been doing round 1-2 in day 1 and 3-7 in day 2 for some time now.

Regardless, this format is different. It certainly allows for more time to negotiate. Wonder what we'll see. Who knows.

 

[Sander]

I think come training camp, there's going to be another round of cuts, especially on the veteran side. The Pats for example are just going to sit on Adalius Thomas until the last possible moment to cut. I'm sure once the rookies get into camp and things start gelling, others teams will do the same to clear roster space.

Probably. It's also interesting there's only a few re-signings, a lot of teams are tendering players but not giving them contracts.

Davis still has a hard-on for JaMarcus apparently. Man WTF happened to the Raiders, look back at all the great picks they had over the years - Heisman winners, All-Pros, HoFers all over the place. Davis is out of his mind to stubbornly stay with the same "long ball" philosophy from the 70s. It's sad really, because the Raiders (love 'em or hate 'em) are one of those teams - like Steelers, Cowboys, Packers - that make the NFL better when they are good.

Unlike the other teams that make the NFL worse when they're good.

Man, they're talking suspension for Roethlisberger.
What a bonehead.
You'd think he would've learned after what happened to Quantrell Bishop.

Good movie, that.

Also FFS nobody gives a shit about Tebow why won't people just stop talking about him? 2nd-round QBs aren't that interesting.

They are when they're the best college player ever and a total jesus-freak.

 

[Brother None]

They are when they're the best college player ever and a total jesus-freak.

The former isn't true, the latter isn't that exceptional in the NFL.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Suspending Big Ben before a court decision is made would be beyond idiotic.

He's certainly innocent until proven guilty, and while I haven't pored over the details, he's not a serial rapist misogynist. But the guy is a bonehead, and his lack of judgement is really hurting his organization's image, a very conservative, PR minded organization - (isn't Rooney our Ambassador to Ireland?). I really hate to even mention Tiger Woods, but another guy who probably did nothing illegal, but of such dubious moral standing that it makes him radioactive to sponsors.

Also FFS nobody gives a shit about Tebow why won't people just stop talking about him? 2nd-round QBs aren't that interesting.

I'm not going to belabor the point, but the kid's NCAA accomplishments are hard not to respect, whether he can transition to the next level I find more intriguing than seeing how many games it takes until Sam Bradford blows out his shoulder again on his way to David Carr-like oblivion.

Round 1 to 3 for a while, yeah, but they've been doing round 1-2 in day 1 and 3-7 in day 2 for some time now.

That's a testament to when the last time I bothered to watch the draft at all beyond the first 20 picks I guess.

Unlike the other teams that make the NFL worse when they're good.

Like how you guys all poo-pooed the a regional-appeal team like the Jets last year in the playoffs?
Some teams travel well across the country - Steelers and Cowboys fans exist everywhere. Other teams have no appeal outside their little backwater burgs. Buffalo, NYJ.
There are certain iconic sports teams in North America - NY Yankees, Montreal Canadiens, Boston Celtics/LA Lakers that really elevate the prestige of their leagues when they add to their already storied histories.

They are when they're the best college player ever and a total jesus-freak.

The former isn't true

Arguably. You can make a good case for him. I wouldn't. But he's probably top 3.

 

[Sander]

Like how you guys all poo-pooed the a regional-appeal team like the Jets last year in the playoffs?

I didn't think the Jets were good enough to do what they did. They proved me wrong. That's all there is to it. I hope they continue to do well - Rex Ryan is a fun guy to watch and that defense is impressive.

In any case, what does this have to do with you claiming the Steelers, Raiders, Packers and Cowboys are somehow specially gifted when it comes to the effect of their being good?

Some teams travel well across the country - Steelers and Cowboys fans exist everywhere. Other teams have no appeal outside their little backwater burgs. Buffalo, NYJ.

Eh, winning teams always attract a lot of fans. Those teams have so many fans because they have a history of winning teams, really.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The Raiders, Steelers, Cowboys and Packers are iconic, polarizing teams. People want to see them win or be crushed, but above all, they want to see them.
All things being equal would you rather see Steelers/Cowboys SB or Buffalo/Atlanta? What would the league rather see? What would get better ratings, and generate more interest and revenue?
Those teams aren't inherently better, they just bring a lot of cache and prestige to the table that small market, expansion teams don't. That means a lot, especially in the leagues showcase game.

 

[Sander]

The Raiders, Steelers, Cowboys and Packers are iconic, polarizing teams. People want to see them win or be crushed, but above all, they want to see them.
All things being equal would you rather see Steelers/Cowboys SB or Buffalo/Atlanta? What would the league rather see? What would get better ratings, and generate more interest and revenue?
Those teams aren't inherently better, they just bring a lot of cache and prestige to the table that small market, expansion teams don't. That means a lot, especially in the leagues showcase game.

Sure. But those teams got to be so polarizing and iconic by simply winning a ton. You can add the Pats to that list too, now - it's what winning does: it vastly increases your market and attention.

 

[Brother None]

his lack of judgement

In what? Getting sued-ness? Shit, what has the guy actually done that we know of.
Fooled around with young girls? Oh no, the sky is falling! That's almost as bad as smoking weed in college. We all know nobody does that, and we should vilify these guys who get caught for it!

but the kid's NCAA accomplishments are hard not to respect

Really? I find them p easy not to respect. How many college ballers have we seen that obviously don't have the tools for the next level. Are Tebow's 2009 stats that much better than Dennis Dixon's? No. Tim Tebow should be a late-round flyer that might work out or not. That's all his college achievements should have got him. The only reason we're even talking about him as a 2nd-round pick is his popularity.

I care not. Some team will take a gamble on him, and he'll work out or won't. I just missed the point where we're all supposed to talk about late-round flyers in what's a very weak QB class anyway (if stronger than last year's, roofles!).

Oh wait, I forgot, Tebow's intangibles have been measured to be much better than a normal player's! You gotta be kidding me...

That's a testament to when the last time I bothered to watch the draft at all beyond the first 20 picks I guess.

I hear that. The draft is boring.
At least seeing footage of Jets fans in their standard "I HATE THIS PICK IT'S TERRIBLE GRAAAGH" mode or Raiders fan in their "Oh God" mode is funny.

Like how you guys all poo-pooed the a regional-appeal team like the Jets last year in the playoffs?

Heh. How does this statement even have anything to do with anything?

Besides, I just hate the Jets.

Arguably. You can make a good case for him. I wouldn't. But he's probably top 3.

Roofles. Call me again when Tim Tebow looks like he'd even have the right to hold Red Grange's jockstrap. Oh, that's right, he never will.

Roofles!

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

In what? Getting sued-ness? Shit, what has the guy actually done that we know of.

In putting himself in stupid situations. He, as a guy who's good image is sold and marketed and pushed as the face of a multi-million dollar franchise. Regardless of how you feel justice is being served here, he has compromised the integrity (see #9) of his team, his eligibility to play, and his standing as public face and leader of the team.

That's almost as bad as smoking weed in college. We all know nobody does that, and we should vilify these guys who get caught for it!

If it doesn't effect their ability to play at all, I could care less. In fact, I've always wanted to rip bong hits with Randy Moss or Warren Sapp.

Really? I find them p easy not to respect. How many college ballers have we seen that obviously don't have the tools for the next level. Are Tebow's 2009 stats that much better than Dennis Dixon's?

Incomplete much, one snapshot year without considering rushing or win PCT? I'm not a fan of his at all, but you can't deny what he accomplished in the world of college football is nothing short of excellence (accomplishments that can be achieved regardless of NFL preparedness).

Dude, have you ever watched a Florida game? An SEC Championship game? He's not from some backwater WAC school racking up points against community colleges, he performed at the highest possible level.

Like how you guys all poo-pooed the a regional-appeal team like the Jets last year in the playoffs?

Heh. How does this statement even have anything to do with anything?

We can revisit it, but you guys seemed none too enthused that the Jets went deep. Apathetic? Supports my point that Mickey Mouse franchises don't garner popular support or generate interest the way a marquee matchup would. The way the fans, the league, everyone would prefer.

Arguably. You can make a good case for him. I wouldn't. But he's probably top 3.

Roofles. Call me again when Tim Tebow looks like he'd even have the right to hold Red Grange's jockstrap. Oh, that's right, he never will.
[/quote]
The ole Galloping Ghost huh? That you have to go back, what 75 years to find a comparable player says a lot doesn't it?

 

[Sander]

We can revisit it, but you guys seemed none too enthused that the Jets went deep. Apathetic? Supports my point that Mickey Mouse franchises don't garner popular support or generate interest the way a marquee matchup would. The way the fans, the league, everyone would prefer.

I was pretty apathetic about the Steelers not making the playoffs, the Cowboys getting their first playoff win and then getting their butts kicked (my main concern there was that I didn't want to see Favre go through), and the Raiders not making it wasn't even something you could have feelings on. As for the Packers - they had an exciting offense and an exciting team and played an exciting game. For me it had nothing to do with the Pack's history that I cared about their playoff game.

The ole Galloping Ghost huh? That you have to go back, what 75 years to find a comparable player says a lot doesn't it?

Vince Young. Troy Smith.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

On Steelers/Raiders, I purposefully said all things being equal when comparing to a small market team. Steelers really played some ugly ball at the end of last year, Raiders - I just feel bad for the guys, how can they possibly overcome the incompetence of Al Davis.

Vince Young. Troy Smith.

I don't hide my man-love for V. Young's Longhorn days, guy was astounding. Frankly, I'm not all that interested in ranking college players or where Tebow fits in etc. I don't really follow college that intently anymore, and even if I did, who could possibly quantify something like this with any kind of accuracy? This is Sports Illustrated filler material.
The kid was the most dominant player in the most dominant conference for 3 years. Degree of NFL preparedness doesn't diminish that.

 

[Brother None]

he has compromised

How? What did he actually do?

If it doesn't effect their ability to play at all, I could care less. In fact, I've always wanted to rip bong hits with Randy Moss or Warren Sapp.

Hell yeah.

'm not a fan of his at all, but you can't deny what he accomplished in the world of college football is nothing short of excellence.

I'm not, I just don't care. There's too many question marks surrounding him to say he has a good shot at succeeding at the QB position in the NFL. If he's drafted in the 2nd, that's a reach based purely on popularity. He should be a late-round flyer, yet somehow he isn't.

What I really don't get is how much he is being discussed. It's testament to how little one cares for the actual game during the off-season.

Have I mentioned I hate the off-season yet?

We can revisit it, but you guys seemed none too enthused that the Jets went deep.

Aye, because I fucking hate the Jets. That has nothing to do with regional appeal. I hate the Jets, Titans, Iggles, Giants and Redskins. When they do well, I don't cheer.

But Sander and I are not relevant to your point anyway. I'm sure we're interesting to the NFL as they look to expand their market, but when it comes to regional appeal that's more about domestic markets, and your point is correct; the NFL profits especially from specific teams when they're doing well. That said, the market appeal potential is always there for other teams. Get a feel-good story like the Saints rolling and you can just haul in the bandwagoners.

The ole Galloping Ghost huh? That you have to go back, what 75 years to find a comparable player says a lot doesn't it?

Not really, I just went for the greatest college player of all time. I doubt Tebow's comparable to him, in any way, but it's hard to match up to guys who redefined the game and its appeal, so not really fair.

Tebow's another exciting college player in a long line of exciting college players. Like Young, or Troy Smith, or Reggie Bush. We've heard the "their skillset is so unique oh my god they'll reinvent the game" bruahah before, though luckily it's being skipped now.
Really, it bears repeating, as long as my team doesn't draft him I don't mind Tebow, I just think it's sad that he's such a big topic, and funny to think some team might seriously reach for him.

Then again, Pat White went 44th overall, and he's basically Tebow-lite. Much weaker draft tho

Raiders - I just feel bad for the guys, how can they possibly overcome the incompetence of Al Davis.

He'll die.

Eventually.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

How? What did he actually do?

Not much different than what I do every Friday night, and probably more legal. That doesn't mean my wife wouldn't go agro if she knew.
The consequences of what he did (fair or not) could potentially effect his team, a team that depends on him. After his motorcycle concussion dealio a few years ago, it starts to make you question if this is the guy you want running your offense.
He's not a criminal, just a meathead.

Hell yeah.

Looking forward to this Ricky Williams doc - I never had any animosity towards the guy (although the way he left his teammates hanging was a dick move) but he was vilified for what he did. The way RBs are milked dry and discarded, who are we to question his desire to pursue other interests, whether it's Jim Brown going to Hollywood for more cash, Barry Sanders retiring to pursue ...privacy? or Ricky for wanting to meditate in Nepal and smoke Ganja.

What I really don't get is how much he is being discussed. It's testament to how little one cares for the actual game during the off-season.

Thank the football gods that Brett Favre is under contract for 2010 huh?

Not really, I just went for the greatest college player of all time.

I've made my disregard pretty clear on pre-integration football stats before.

This is all academic, it's one step away from "who's better, him, Jordan, Gretzky, Babe Ruth or Mike Tyson? It's fun to debate if you're so inclined, but that all it's worth.

Then again, Pat White went 44th overall, and he's basically Tebow-lite. Much weaker draft tho

Poor Pat White, last I heard his future is still in doubt after that shot he took. Love me some WV football, nice to see Noel Devine and Jock Sanders bow out of the draft for a chance to smash all the school records, probably make out better in next year's draft.
I'm a total Big East homer. The division has bounced back pretty nicely after Miami and Boston College seceded. Louisville, Cinncinnati, USF are formidable additions.

Notre Dame will come crawling to us on their hands and knees to join soon.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I think with Tebow, people really stretch to find reasons to love him or hate him.

That's true. I have no trouble making an analysis devoid of love and hate, though.

Most of the criticisms I hear about Tebow are the same things people were saying about Aaron Rodgers: system QB, bad throwing mechanics, etc. With Rodgers, it made all the difference in the world that he got to sit behind Favre for two years and learn, and also that McCarthy got two years to "remake" him into an NFL QB (McCarthy is a great QB coach). The Pats or the Colts are probably the two best places for Tebow to end up, since he won't have to play much for a couple of years. If a team picks him and tries to start him from day 1, he's going to get eaten alive like David Carr was in Houston. He'll start to panic and fall back into bad habits, like his giant Leftwich-esque windmill throwing motion.


As for Roethlisberger - I have no idea whether or not he's guilty, but even if he's innocent...getting it on with college-age girls in the bathroom of a bar in Georgia? That's pretty low-rent for a celebrity athlete, and stupid for a guy in his position. It does remind me a little of the Chmura situation. I don't know whether he was innocent or he got off because of his fame, but either way he was present at a high-school party where kids were drinking. That's idiotic for any adult.


I'll make one wild prediction for the draft. The Packers will take this guy:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=86432&draftyear=2010&genpos=OT

He fits the profile of a Ted Thompson pick.

 

[TheGM]

All that money for Peppers and now the bears are talking about turning him into a Linebacker.

 

[Sander]

All that money for Peppers and now the bears are talking about turning him into a Linebacker.

They're doing what? Are they switching to a 3-4? Or do they want to make him a 4-3 OLB?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

The Pats or the Colts are probably the two best places for Tebow to end up

Never thought of that, I would love to see him on the Colts, that would ratchet up the animosity to the Nth degree. I don't think Polian would take him as high as they're saying he'll go now. And for all his faults, Polian knows drafting.

And yes, offseason does suck.
http://www.csnne.com/pages/v1_landing_patriots?See-Gostkowski-hit-his-target-img-srchtt=1&blockID=205049&feedID=3946&qv=1#bp

 

[TheGM]

All that money for Peppers and now the bears are talking about turning him into a Linebacker.

They're doing what? Are they switching to a 3-4? Or do they want to make him a 4-3 OLB?

Dunno. I heard something about them dropping Tampa 2.

They have been talking about trading Olsen. Now talk is they wanna trade Hester and Olsen to the Lions for a 1st rnd pick.

 

[Sander]

Dunno. I heard something about them dropping Tampa 2.

They have been talking about trading Olsen. Now talk is they wanna trade Hester and Olsen to the Lions for a 1st rnd pick.

And leave absolutely no competent receivers on the roster?

I thought I was obsessive about NFL rumours, but your rumours aren't even showing up on national news outlets. maybe you should put less stock in those rumours.