NFL 2010

[Cimmerian Nights]

Wasn't last year a rebuilding year for the Pats too?

No, that was bridge year, this is rebuilding year.

Plus, you did win the NFC West. So basically, that's a success.

Kind of like winning a beauty pageant in Newark.

Man, why haven't you talked about this insight before. This is such a novel angle, it's amazing.

I'll cry from the mountain tops as long as someone still finds roster spots for Rex Grossman and Dan Orlavsky.

It's a balancing act

3 division winners and 3 wildcards is more balanced. 4 division winners a 2 wildcards leaves less wiggle room for bubble teams and more for lackluster div winners.

A team that sneaks in on the back-end and then makes noise in the postseason is a great story and not something to be maligned.

I fail to see how a more deserving wildcard didn't satisfy that.
I can remember years where the NFC East fielded 3 playoff teams - you can't get that now. Let the best teams play regardless, I don't care if three come from the NFC West.

Yeah these rookies like Bradford and McCoy starting and doing well, that's really fucking the product over.

That there are up-and-coming rookies doesn't mean that there isn't a dearth of NFL starting caliber QBs. I'm fine with the rookie QB development process. It's stiffs walking in off the street and starting, to disastrous results that is hurting the league.
Max Hall was not Arizona's Sam Bradford, he's a desperation stop gap.

What was the TV rating for yesterday's AZ/SF game? Did it even take place? Who would know or care?

 

[Sander]

No, that was bridge year, this is rebuilding year.

So apparently, rebuilding year > bridge year.
Bridge failure.

3 division winners and 3 wildcards is more balanced. 4 division winners a 2 wildcards leaves less wiggle room for bubble teams and more for lackluster div winners.

Aside from the fact that neither of those facts are true inherently (bubble teams and division winners aren't separate groups), that's personal preference. There's nothing inherently better about the previous.

In fact, if you want more wiggle room for bubble teams and less for lackluster teams, eliminate divisions altogether.

I fail to see how a more deserving wildcard didn't satisfy that.
I can remember years where the NFC East fielded 3 playoff teams - you can't get that now.

Yes you can. NFC South nearly sent 3 teams to the playoffs this year. In '06 and '07, NFC East did send 3 teams to the playoffs.

Let the best teams play regardless, I don't care if three come from the NFC West.

Best way to do that: remove divisions as playoff determinants.
Except then we're putting the regular season on a pedestal instead of the elimination format that is part of what makes the NFL awesome.

That there are up-and-coming rookies doesn't mean that there isn't a dearth of NFL starting caliber QBs. I'm fine with the rookie QB development process. It's stiffs walking in off the street and starting, to disastrous results that is hurting the league.
Max Hall was not Arizona's Sam Bradford, he's a desperation stop gap.

Yes, some teams are really really stupid about their talents. That shit happens. It's called distribution of talent. You want 32 'starting-caliber' QBs in the league? Some teams are unlucky, some teams are not. Jon Kitna, Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb wouldn't look bad starting at QB for teams. Yet all of them are backups. There are plenty of 'starting caliber' QBs in the league, they just aren't distributed over teams on a 1:1 basis.

And that's just fine. Every year there will be some team that's fucked because they have no QB. Then the next year, everyone can get giddy about how they'll turn it around with sexydraftpick or experiencedveteranacquisition. The importance of QBs doesn't just hold some teams back, it also allows other teams to make big jumps.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

There is a really poor football team that's in the playoffs. It doesn't matter who won last night, the NFC West sucks right now, and they especially suck outside their division, they are double-digit underdogs at home against the defending champs.

 

[Brother None]

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Losers gonna lose.

These issues have a way of self-correcting.

More unsettling is the notion that Ron Borges wrote a positive piece on Belichik after 11 years of covering the team and slagging him. There's not even any underhanded snark or sarcasm.
Couple months ago he wrote this:
Randy Moss trade another blown call by Bill Belichick

Bill Belichick always loves to talk about having to get better. Today he got worse, or at least his team did, which is really the same thing.

Take away the Patriots from Bill Belichick and what is he? A gym teacher with better jewelry, no disrespect to gym teachers intended. So how does he sell this latest fire sale to his players? Good luck.

Felger was right, Borges really is a fraud.

 

[Sander]

Losers gonna lose.

These issues have a way of self-correcting.

Like the Giants in '07.
Wait.

More unsettling is the notion that Ron Borges wrote a positive piece on Belichik after 11 years of covering the team and slagging him. There's not even any underhanded snark or sarcasm.
Couple months ago he wrote this:
Randy Moss trade another blown call by Bill Belichick

Bill Belichick always loves to talk about having to get better. Today he got worse, or at least his team did, which is really the same thing.

Take away the Patriots from Bill Belichick and what is he? A gym teacher with better jewelry, no disrespect to gym teachers intended. So how does he sell this latest fire sale to his players? Good luck.

Felger was right, Borges really is a fraud.

I'd also argue that Raheem Morris deserves that award more than Bill Belichick, as he had much less talent, a younger team and was expected to bomb this season.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

These issues have a way of self-correcting.

Like the Giants in '07.
Wait. [/quote]
Not quite, the Giants were a legit playoff team, and were not 10 point home underdogs. In fact, they were a favored road team. I'm sure you remember who they beat, it was their last playoff appearance.

I'd also argue that Raheem Morris deserves that award more than Bill Belichick, as he had much less talent, a younger team and was expected to bomb this season.

Less talent? I thought the were the self-proclaimed best team in the NFC?

 

[Sander]

Not quite, the Giants were a legit playoff team, and were not 10 point home underdogs. In fact, they were a favored road team. I'm sure you remember who they beat, it was their last playoff appearance.

Eh, last gaps of a great defense and another one of Gruden's mediocre offenses. That loss was the beginning of the end for Gruden in Tampa, and hence the beginning of what's being built now. And I'm pretty happy with what's being built now.

Giants were what, 11.5 point underdogs against the Pats in the Super Bowl? That sure didn't self-correct.

Less talent? I thought the were the self-proclaimed best team in the NFC?

Best team, not most talented team. But not even Raheem Morris took that comment seriously.

Ooh, here's a hilarious Cimms quote from earlier this year:

6th lineman blocking TEs?
Why not use, oh I don't know, this is kind of a novel idea, a 6th lineman reported eligible like has been going on for decades instead? Like what that big Teutonic bully Voellmer and Lavoir do already for the Patriots. Same thing they do with FB. I'd personally draft an H-back to serve both roles.
The TE today is an euphemism for "Big receiver", I don't see Gates, Clark, Gonzo and Cooley blocking anybody.
Besides, when was the last time a TE figured into a Patriots scheme - Ben Coates circa 1995?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I'm glad I'm such a source of amusement for you. Yes, looking backwards is fun, isn't it. Sometimes a little context is helpful too, don't you think? This was the Chicken Little "The Patriots are a dying, futile franchise with no TEs" pre-2010 draft screed, right?

Ooh, here's a hilarious Cimms quote from earlier this year:

Context much?

Would that 'blocking TE' were a position instead of a role. A role that you'd be best served by filling with your best....blocker? - not necessarily a TE if that is the case. Anyone can be a blocking TE if they can block.

You don't think that in some strange conspiracy to make the team better, that the Patriots aren't going to actually find some players in the draft do you?

 

[Brother None]

This was the Chicken Little "The Patriots are a dying, futile franchise with no TEs" pre-2010 draft screed, right?

Huh. Who are you quoting there, then?

 

[Sander]

You want context? Here you go:

No TE, no FB. No problem! This is Arena football mang, not your old man's NFL. I wouldn't mind a pseudo-TE like Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, those guys are just falling off of trees huh?

So yeah, apparently only pseudo-TEs are useful. Bye bye Gronkowski, then.

You were arguing that if you want another receiver, you grab a receiver, and if you want another blocker you stuff in another tackle. When I pointed out that versatility is useful, you responded with:

...as receivers. Shockey is a perfect example. He's an underneath receiver. He's worthless in run blocking.

So yeah. Whoops much?

Also the whole "I don't see Gates, Clark, Gonzo and Cooley blocking anybody." is fairly hilarious regardless of context.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Huh. Who are you quoting there, then?

Don't forget going into 2009 with 5 TEs and now having zero, trading too high for Derrick Burgess and the Raiders ending up getting much better value at that pick, having no real WR depth and a looming problem if Moss goes mopey and Welker is hobbled (as he well might be), having an RB lineup consisting of a bust and a bunch of old guys, and still lacking a pass rush. Let's not mention no QB depth behind your shellshock'd QB.

It's funny how you think it's my job to ask you about the Pats failures. You randomly post to point out how much of a genius Billy is, but don't seem to have as good a grasp of the myriad failings (and seriously, the above status reports reads more like the Bills or Browns than a playoff contender). Pardon me for getting the wrong impression.
I'm rolling my eyes here.

You're excused.

So you agree with me that the Pats have not been a playoff threat lately and don't look like they will be anytime soon?

1:1 favorites to win the SB.

So yeah, apparently only pseudo-TEs are useful. Bye bye Gronkowski, then.

Yeah, silly me, it was so obvious that the Patriots were going to use 3 TE sets back when there were no TEs on the roster.

It's March 16 and a lot is going to happen between now and Week 1 kickoff. Good things, bad things, a lot of things. The Patriots have gaping holes every year, so doesn't everyone else. ...Gaping holes have a way of filling themselves,...
Point being, you, I, nobody knows what is going through Belichik's mind, but to assume he doesn't have plans to address these areas would be silly....
Let's talk after the draft.

More, wild homer specualtion from me! We could do this all day.

Listen, I realize as the resident Patshole I have a target on me, and my demeanor doesn't engender warm fuzzies, but can't you guys come up with some new Patriots bashing material?

 

[Sander]

Yeah, silly me, it was so obvious that the Patriots were going to use 3 TE sets back when there were no TEs on the roster.

It was pretty obvious that versatile blocker/receivers are useful players regardless of whether or not the Pats decide to carry them, something you were vigorously refuting.

 

[Brother None]

You're excused.

I'm excused because I list a bunch of moves I considered dubious and most of which I still consider dubious. The Burgess trade didn't work out, did it, the 5 TEs still became zero, and, uh, pass rush? You're below us in sacks, chippy. WR depth? You had to go to us for help there. Oh look, I was right, go figure. The fact that you succeeded despite these issues does not negate that they're issues, sadly.

You ignore the fact that these are valid points and instead pretend I called the Patriots a dying, futile franchise. I know you're trolling, but this is why I mostly avoid talking Pats with you, which means avoiding talking the sport with you, which is a shame.

1:1 favorites to win the SB.

How meaningful. I remember the last time you were overwhelming favourites to win the Super Bowl. That said, yeah, that statement is pretty silly in hindsight. I underestimated the Patriots. I also underestimated the Falcons and Chiefs, yet I'm not regularly beset by their fans going "HOW DARE YOU BRAH WE ARE THE GRAITEST!?"

Listen, I realize as the resident Patshole I have a target on me, and my demeanor doesn't engender warm fuzzies, but can't you guys come up with some new Patriots bashing material?

Hah. That's funny, no one was bashing the Patriots. Sander was making fun of you, no one said anything negative about the Patriots in this recent discussion. Your prosecution complex is as hilarious as it is enormous. The fact that you seem to think we were bashing the Patriots now is really all you need to know about why you and, well, "your ilk" never contribute anything to enjoyable sports talk.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Yeah, silly me, it was so obvious that the Patriots were going to use 3 TE sets back when there were no TEs on the roster.

It was pretty obvious that versatile blocker/receivers are useful players regardless of whether or not the Pats decide to carry them, something you were vigorously refuting.

Not in general I wasn't, I was refuting the notion that the Patriots specifically couldn't scheme around not having one like they did the first 10 years of Brady's career to pretty good effect.
They still don't have a nominal FB either, doesn't stop them from finding someone else to fill that role in goalline.

Are versatile TEs valuable? Yes.
Can you win without one? Yes.

I'm excused because I list a bunch of moves I considered dubious and most of which I still consider dubious. The Burgess trade didn't work out, did it, the 5 TEs still became zero, and, uh, pass rush? You're below us in sacks, chippy. WR depth? You had to go to us for help there. Oh look, I was right, go figure. The fact that you succeeded despite these issues does not negate that they're issues, sadly.

Again, I was specifically refuting the doom and gloom put forth that those issues wouldn't be addressed when those statements were made (pre-draft!). Some were, some were addressed mid-season, some are still issues, some new holes opened. They're a flawed team for sure, but you can't just close the book pre-draft as if that's how they're gonna roll in 2010.

I also underestimated the Falcons and Chiefs, yet I'm not regularly beset by their fans going "HOW DARE YOU BRAH WE ARE THE GRAITEST!?"

The Falcons have fans?

Hah. That's funny, no one was bashing the Patriots. Sander was making fun of you, no one said anything negative about the Patriots in this recent discussion. Your prosecution complex is as hilarious as it is enormous. The fact that you seem to think we were bashing the Patriots now is really all you need to know about why you and, well, "your ilk" never contribute anything to enjoyable sports talk.

Enjoyable is kind of subjective, this is cool-headed, dispassionate, rational sports discourse in the North East.


Let me be the first to nominate Pete Carroll for Hard Knocks next year, this man warrants having a camera on him at all times:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d6e414/Pete-Carroll-in-the-locker-room
We nailed it!

Spread's up to 11 points.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I remember when Mallett played for Michigan.

Thought he looked very talented against THE Ohio State University, but I didn't like his sissy whining when he was getting sacked over and over early on. I enjoyed seeing Ironhead Heyward's kid rip it up.

Looks like lots of QB talent in the upcoming draft. Some of it probably would have been within reach of Seattle if only they had lost to the Rams.

BTW, I bet you Dutchie baseball haters don't even appreciate Bert Blyleven finally getting into the Hall of Fame...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Blyleven

 

[Sander]

To be entirely honest, I've never even heard of the fucker.

 

[Brother None]

Never heard of him either.

Looks like lots of QB talent in the upcoming draft. Some of it probably would have been within reach of Seattle if only they had lost to the Rams.

Anyone would've been in reach then, we'd have picked 7th. But man, a lot of QBs that are in (or might be) are getting graded high. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if Luck, Newton, Gabbert, Locker and Mallet all went in the 1st round. Though that's now, it might well change.

Locket and Newton would both fit Bates' system great, as would Gabbert except he tends to run around behind the LoS too much. Mallet is a bit shit at throwing on the move but still. Any one of those guys dropping to us would be fine.

They're a flawed team for sure, but you can't just close the book pre-draft as if that's how they're gonna roll in 2010.

True, though I was kind of looking back at the preceding drafts and going "man those were unimpressive". How was I to know the Pats'd turn around and grab such a haul after doing diddlypoo on draft day for years?

The Falcons have fans?

No doubt tons of bandwagoners jumping on as we speak.

Enjoyable is kind of subjective, this is cool-headed, dispassionate, rational sports discourse in the North East.

That's why no one likes you guys.

Let me be the first to nominate Pete Carroll for Hard Knocks next year, this man warrants having a camera on him at all times:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d6e414/Pete-Carroll-in-the-locker-room
We nailed it!

I usually just roll my eyes at Pete Carroll's clown-like ways and hopping and running on the sideline but I kind of like it here. No apologies, fuck the haters, we won the division, go screw yourself. If only we were in the NE rather than the NW people would lap it up.

Hard Knock in Seattle would be fun though. People might find out how lovely it is in the Summer.

Spread's up to 11 points.

What, the spread is rising? The Saints just put Ivory and Thomas on IR and Jenkins is likely to be out, while on our side everyone practiced fully except Locklear (non injury related), and we now know there's a very high chance of cold and rain...and our odds are dropping?

All the fates are aligning for us baby. TEAM OF DESTINY. DON'T IT JUST FEEL GREAT. I'M IN.
/Pete'd

On different topics:
The Pro Bowl still amuses me. Wonder how deep we'll go into the reserves this year?

Hah! Wade Phillips! Well brill.

Hah! Al Davis firing Cable! Davis never changes.

Hah! Niners hiring from within to show they believe in their inept path and this and this amuses me to no end. That franchise is going nowhere until the Yorks back the fuck off.

PS: by the way, Packers fans, remember when I went off on Raji for not being a good fit for a two-gap NT? You guys could've just said "we're going to run the Phillips 3-4" rather than letting me rage at nothing.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Thought he looked very talented against THE Ohio State University, but I didn't like his sissy whining when he was getting sacked over and over early on. I enjoyed seeing Ironhead Heyward's kid rip it up.

I like Big10 Vs. SEC matchups. Big time powerball!
Most of these bowls with Top 10 teams have been great (you can thank UCONN for the one exception), I could really do without the rest of them though.

And as much as I dislike OSU, Jim Tressel is a righteous mofo.

BTW, I bet you Dutchie baseball haters don't even appreciate Bert Blyleven finally getting into the Hall of Fame...

Never much of a baseball fan, but always loved Lenny Dykstra as a kid. Charming guy. Not sure the Dutch would want to claim him.

True, though I was kind of looking back at the preceding drafts and going "man those were unimpressive".

They were, set them back quite a bit. As well as bad FA moves - Adalius Thomas.
Better to have versatile, smart (sorry SMAAHT) coachable football players than just a random assemblage of the best talent available ('skins). I can't believe how he basically pulled that off mid-season while still dealing with the losses of Boden, Ty Warren, K. Faulk and all the IR guys - Patriots are up there with Packers and Colts in players on IR despite the lack of whining and Manningpologism.

Belichik is too old and not enough of a player's coach to deal with head cases and malcontents anymore. So he just ships them off now. Shit, he just suspended Daedrick for the year and signed 2 DL off the street. He's still not done tinkering with the roster. Devious motherfucker.

BTW, Best of Belichik Sound FX on NFLN tonight at 9:00PM!

That's why no one likes you guys.

Funny how everyone liked us when our team set the standard for buffoonery for 20 years. Or did they, it was hard to tell behind all the ridicule. No wonder the Patriots and their fans love giving the entire NFL the middle finger.

Just be glad I'm not a Red Sox fan. They're working off 80 years of agita and pathos.

Hard Knock in Seattle would be fun though.

After the Danny Woodhead saga, I wouldn't let any cameras anywhere near my training camp.

What, the spread is rising?

Down to 10.5 after the Pierre Thomas news. Saints must be getting a lot of action. I stay away from double-digit point spreads personally, too big and too much time late game for even an inferior team to move the ball around.

All the fates are aligning for us baby. TEAM OF DESTINY.

Everybody's 0-0 now.

Hah! Wade Phillips! Well brill.

I refuse to acknowledge the existence of this franchise until they prove they should be taken seriously.
I fucking hate the AFC South. Texans, Jaguars, Titans - sorry ass division couldn't stop Peyton Manning on his worst day. None of them are going anywhere or deserve any mention until they can put the Colts down, and they're unlikely to prove otherwise until Manning retires.

Hah! Al Davis firing Cable! Davis never changes.

Al Davis doesn't want a coach though, he wants a puppet.
And just when it started to look like they were turning the corner.

Hah! Niners hiring from within to show they believe in their inept path and this and this amuses me to no end. That franchise is going nowhere until the Yorks back the fuck off.

That franchise started going downhill after Debartolo got pinched and had to give the team to the York side.

 

[Brother None]

Or did they, it was hard to tell behind all the ridicule. No wonder the Patriots and their fans love giving the entire NFL the middle finger.

So basically you're Saints fans?

Dude, Parcells became your HC in 1993. You've pretty much been respectable to great ever since. It might be time to give up on the downtrodden schtick.

After the Danny Woodhead saga, I wouldn't let any cameras anywhere near my training camp.

Pffft. No one really cares about Woodhead. He succeeds because of the system, not because he's good. Pats know that. Jets know that. No one cares.

Down to 10.5 after the Pierre Thomas news. Saints must be getting a lot of action. I stay away from double-digit point spreads personally, too big and too much time late game for even an inferior team to move the ball around.

I don't bet at all, but I'd put my money on the Hawks. TEAM OF DESTINY.

I refuse to acknowledge the existence of this franchise until they prove they should be taken seriously.

Their offense is pretty.

That franchise started going downhill after Debartolo got pinched and had to give the team to the York side.

That's what I said.

Apropos to nothing

Face of the Rams franchise