NMA article: My Fallout 3 adventures!

Why there are speech percentanges in the speech lines? Why does it tell you if the option is a lie or uses intelligence? Why the percentage/lie/intelligence option is (always?) the first line? Why lab coat gives +10 science? Why the guns are listed in small guns skill?

I haven't followed this game for long time now, so does anyone know what is the reasoning of those things I asked about? Has Bethesda made any claims as I see those are major "immersion" breaking points and disrespectful to Fallout design?
 
All I know is that personally I"m enjoying the game way more than I thought I would. It's not the Fallout 3 Black Isle would have made, but it's still a good Fallout game.

I'm playing an evil character, and it seems like there are more options for the evil path than there were in 1-2. That really surprises me.

I think some of you need to tone the knee-jerk hate down, and give the game a chance. If you actually like the Fallout world, and the post-apocalyptic theme, then you owe it to yourself to at least try it out. You might be surprised. I know I was. I honestly didn't think Bethsoft was capable of making a game this good.

They certainly have done more positive things for the franchise than Interplay did the last 2 Fallout games they released...
 
'Meh' Effect

'Meh' Effect




Since BG2, Bioware productions haven't tickled my interest, nor rated even a bargain bin purchase.

Mass Effect development was not on my radar until Vince's Mass Effect parody @ the Codex.
Profiling the M.E. lead character as a Jack Bauer wanna be made a synapse leap to the the moral morass that is found in Conrad's Heart Of Darkness.
Between the the f-cking and the fighting, I speculated that a well written - tri - polar dialogue path might offer a menu of command voice that *might* range from passive aggressive 'nice guy' to in your face 'collar grabbing' drill instructor.
Well. More funny when I discovered the truth of the comedic intent.

Read about Mass Effect for the first time. Well when I found out the reality of Mass Effect - more of the same Bioware with some soft core porno - inter species sodomy - as a pull down the pants --
look at me !!!!111!! to incite the kids,
then Mass Effect dwindled to "Meh' Effect.

What I read so far of this ITower thread shines an entertaining light on the ONLY B-soft title I have EVER considered playing.
Vince has my attention, and the chorus of greek philosophers @ Irontower create a dynamic give and take that hones down the edge and cuts through shades of meaning.

Went to the polls this A.M. and now I look forward to finishing the Let's Play thread, good stuff right?
And when it's ready, I anticipate a spectacular FO3 review full of "storm and fury' [Teh Drama!] and more significant then the sum of it's parts.

The lowest common ...target demographic ... the 'cake eaters' ... well, they have their multitude of superlative, absolutist, sales pitches that gush with school girl rapture.
And the herd are stressed into a whine by any alternate reality.

If ... can't deal with Vince's world view, or his right to express truth and beauty, go ask mom or Bioware or B-soft for some more chocolate milk solace.
Dream on that the future belongs to you. Dream the dream of each 'Me" Generation, before your waist line expands as your hair line recedes.
Obey the script of the hired scribblers. Seek solace in the true hive mind of commerce's fashion fascists.

Others will seek the clash of opinions and the true cutting edge of conflict.
Others will push and break the limits.

Afraid? Well ... 'duck and cover'.

Too scary? Peek between cake crumbed fingers ...

For those standing TALL ...

Anticipate the thrill of horror survivalist prose, Vince's Quest For Truth, for ---> HEROES <-- ONLY!!!!!!!



250px-Superman.jpg





Link Coming Soon @ a NMA near YOU!






4too
 
Well, i for one got bored of F3 quite quickly. I can't enjoy it as a shooter (bad animations, clunky combat), i can't enjoy it as an rpg (the writing is just terrible) and i can't enjoy it as a Fallout game (the atmosphere is gone, the music is.... well barely decent, attention to detail is also gone and many more things).

I think it could end up pretty good as a generic post-apocalyptic sandbox game with a lot of modding, though the writing/story and the voice acting would still be terrible.
 
Meh said:
Why there are speech percentanges in the speech lines? Why does it tell you if the option is a lie or uses intelligence?
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Didn't it tell you the attribute you were using for a dialogue option in Fallout?

Why the percentage/lie/intelligence option is (always?) the first line? Why lab coat gives +10 science?
Click to expand...

Why not give an idea of success? Why not have some items increase your ability to do some things? Fallout 1 and 2 had some interesting upgrade items too.

Why the guns are listed in small guns skill?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I am following you here.
 
Well, unlike some of you, I found Vince's write-up pretty enjoyable. I didn't read past part 3, as I don't want to spoil the game too much, but what I did read was entertaining and fairly informative. Plus, it's a nice change of pace to read a preview/review not written by a slobbering Bethesda fanboy.

I love the fact that you can slaughter the entire vault and still be a "Vault Guardian".
 
PhillyT said:
Didn't it tell you the attribute you were using for a dialogue option in Fallout?
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No. Also this is the first time ever I've seen this type of system. I got an impression from your text that it has established itself in more games?

Fallout plus other good RPG's do it subtle way. Like creative writing in dialogue. For example when there is a need for dialogue option which requires good speech and intelligence, it is written so it sounds like an intelligent speech from an educated man. If the other participiant in discussion is also a man of wisdom and especially if the subject is on some field of science, there is a chance the player behind the character doesn't understand all the terms and logic used. For me at best it manifests as an immersion of truly intelligent human beings.

That discussion with Doctor Lesko was... "bad". I assume the player character is intelligent because he has the [Intelligence] speech option...

While on the topic of speech, it gives the impression from screenshots and from information I've managed to gather that interaction in discussions has been removed and replaced with a system of questions and answers.

PhillyT said:
Why not give an idea of success? Why not have some items increase your ability to do some things? Fallout 1 and 2 had some interesting upgrade items too.
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Because it has no any logic to back it up. From Fallouts I remember power armor raising some stats in SPECIAL, which makes sense. Also sunglasses might have raised C in FO2? Other than those, I have no idea of other equipment which raise stats other than the basic armor and resistance values.

PhillyT said:
I'm not sure I am following you here.
Click to expand...

http://www.nma-fallout.com/images/fallout3/myadventures/023.png
 
Meh said:
No. Also this is the first time ever I've seen this type of system. I got an impression from your text that it has established itself in more games?
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In FO it would flag a new dialogue option with the perk or skill that opened it up for you. But you're right, the writing for intelligent or science options is no different than the other options.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/images/fallout3/myadventures/023.png
Click to expand...

Oh I see. Are you saying it shouldn't say what guns use that skill?

fedaykin: Does the speech percentage bother you that much? I didn't find it overly intrusive. It was nice to know if I had a chance to succeed, since the models don't give the kind of cues a person mightget in a real life situation.
 
PhillyT said:
In FO it would flag a new dialogue option with the perk or skill that opened it up for you.
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Um...are you sure? Because I seem to remember that it didn't.
PhillyT said:
It was nice to know if I had a chance to succeed,
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Spoils all the fun of not knowing, much like in poker. Also, it encourages reloading until the roll succeeds.
PhillyT said:
since the models don't give the kind of cues a person mightget in a real life situation.
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What do you mean? Facial expressions? That doesn't factor into it, because the character would only react after you make the choice, not before.
 
PhillyT said:
Does the speech percentage bother you that much? .
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It's not just the speech percentage, but the chance to succeed at anything. "Uh noes I can't disarm the nuke, let me just grind until I hit 40% explosives..."

The original games were very extreme in that they gave you no information on how close you were to the requisite stat %. I think in a realistic and balanced game, if you tried something and failed the text in the window would say something like "This lock is extremely difficult to pick" or "A master plumber would be needed to fix this mess!" instead of "you need 70% lockpick to pick this lock" etc.
 
What, when contemplating a lie to your significant other you are not capable of picking up on how likely you are to succeed?

I'll have to look back, but I coud have sworn you get some sort of cue when a dialogue option was a result of a skill you had. Not all of them, but some.

Phil
 
fedaykin said:
Spoils all the fun of not knowing, much like in poker. Also, it encourages reloading until the roll succeeds.
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Why skill checks for most things other than combat shouldn't be random, they should be a simple comparison. The dice roll is brought over from PnP and it works in PnP (and in multiplayer games) because you can't go back and load. Singleplayer CRPGs gain nothing from having a dice roll for said checks other than adding something to possibly be exploited.
 
I understand Vince trying to judge the game by itself - from a developer's perspective it's the only thing that makes sense, seeing what works or doesn't in a closed system of sorts - but what bothers me about the "don't compare it to previous games" tripe is that Bethesda themselves decided to go down that path, and have no doubt profited from it. From the added hype of being "the long-awaited sequel to two of the best RPGs" and all that PR crap to a lot of old fans who bought it, they milked that cow dry; but don't you dare say it has anything to live up to, that's just wrong and evil.

PhillyT said:
I coud have sworn you get some sort of cue when a dialogue option was a result of a skill you had.
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Nope, no such thing. I think you might be mistaking this for the Empathy perk, which highlighted dialogue options in different colors depending on the reaction a given line would cause.

Beelzebud said:
I think some of you need to tone the knee-jerk hate down, and give the game a chance.
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I think most people here have already played the game by now. Not everyone will feel the same as you after trying it out, you know.
 
UncannyGarlic said:
fedaykin said:
Spoils all the fun of not knowing, much like in poker. Also, it encourages reloading until the roll succeeds.
Click to expand...
Why skill checks for most things other than combat shouldn't be random, they should be a simple comparison. The dice roll is brought over from PnP and it works in PnP (and in multiplayer games) because you can't go back and load. Singleplayer CRPGs gain nothing from having a dice roll for said checks other than adding something to possibly be exploited.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I believe that a better choice is an static check with several modifiers like charisma, faction, NPC disposition, etc.
 
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