NMA: Fallout 3 review

[Sander]

With respect to the cars in Fallout 3, and them being nuclear not fitting with the setting- shouldn't that be in the Fallout 2 list as well? The Highwayman could be run on micro fusion cells, which have the nuclear symbol on them.

Those don't explode.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

nuclear exploding children in FO4, p[/s]lz.

 

[iridium_ionizer]

With respect to the cars in Fallout 3, and them being nuclear not fitting with the setting- shouldn't that be in the Fallout 2 list as well? The Highwayman could be run on micro fusion cells, which have the nuclear symbol on them.

Also, there was one reparable car in all of the tens of thousands of square miles in Fallout 2. There are hundreds of cars with explosive fuel in Fallout 3. If the fuel was explosive, wouldn't the raiders use it as weapons? Wouldn't it be all scavenged by 200 years after the blast? In Fallout 1 / 2 there were tons of rusted cars, but all of them (with one exception) were just debris in the landscape of the wasteland. The only uses that people could come up with for them were as the walls of Junktown and as carts for caravans (with only the back half of the car used).

 

[AskWazzup]

With respect to the cars in Fallout 3, and them being nuclear not fitting with the setting- shouldn't that be in the Fallout 2 list as well? The Highwayman could be run on micro fusion cells, which have the nuclear symbol on them.

I'm not saying we should be ignoring Fallout 3's breaks with canon in favour of criticising Fallout 2, I'm just pointing out that when listing the issues with both games, nuclear powered cars should be in both the Fallout 2 and 3 lists.

Ofcourse, nuclear bombs galore is very much a Fallout 3 thing.

The nuclear cars in Fallout 2 are supposdely ran by cold fusion, which is harmless and these cars are pretty scarce, not to mention working/running ones.

However the nuclear part is not that huge of an issue, when you compare it to the nuclear exploding part .

First of all, nuclear reactors, be it fission or fusion based, are not going to explode in a nuclear explosion manner no matter how hard you try. In order for the "nuclear material" (such as uranium, or plutonium) to explode, it needs to reach critical mass, which is pretty hard to achieve, since explosives which would implode on the fisile material, have to be placed precesily right, so that pressure is applied equally from all sides. Otherwise the energy build up is lost due to "leaks" of pressure.

It would be even harder to achieve a nuclear explosion (or in this case a thermonuclear explosion) from a fusion based reactor (of course it's questionable if it's even possible, because we don't even have a practiacally working fusion reactor yet, to base our assumptions on), since you need tremendeus power to force the merging of nuclei to such a degree, where it would become an uncontrolable chain reaction.

So these explosions are almost impossible in new, nuclear reactors, whereas the cars in F3 are sitting idle for 200 years, just waiting for the chosen one to shoot them ...... I guess i will just stop here, because it becomes just too ridiculous the more you think about it

 

[sarfa]

I'm fully aware that the car in Fallout 2 didn't explode. The point I was making was to object that nuclear powered cars were Bethesda's fault when Black Isle put one in Fallout 2 was simply incorrect.

The science behind nuclear explosions wasn't the point I was making. The issue of them all being ticking time bombs waiting to explode is an entirely different issue, and I utterly agree that it's totally stupid to have that happen. But if thats what you're complaining about, say that. Don't just say "Nuclear Powered Cars" and crap on Bethesda for it, say "Nuclear Powered Cars that go mini Hiroshima when you breathe on them to hard!", and crap on Bethesda for that, as opposed to the misleading comparison given by Seymour the spore plant (and others).

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I guess i will just stop here, because it becomes just too ridiculous the more you think about it

but it does not become ridiculous when understanding that Bethesda only took it this far in their own minds:

"man the fucking xbox kids are gonna love this!"

 

[AskWazzup]

I'm fully aware that the car in Fallout 2 didn't explode. The point I was making was to object that nuclear powered cars were Bethesda's fault when Black Isle put one in Fallout 2 was simply incorrect.

The science behind nuclear explosions wasn't the point I was making. The issue of them all being ticking time bombs waiting to explode is an entirely different issue, and I utterly agree that it's totally stupid to have that happen. But if thats what you're complaining about, say that. Don't just say "Nuclear Powered Cars" and crap on Bethesda for it, say "Nuclear Powered Cars that go mini Hiroshima when you breathe on them to hard!", and crap on Bethesda for that, as opposed to the misleading comparison given by Seymour the spore plant (and others).

Again, the nuclear powered cars in the first Fallouts were pretty rare:

Traffic on the streets of the world stops moving. Fuel becomes too precious to waste on automobiles, so alternatives are explored - electric and fusion cars begin to be manufactured, but factories can only make limited amounts while conserving fuel. The US economy teeters on bankruptcy. Pressure on fusion research increases. (mentioned only in the Fallout Bible timeline )

 

[sarfa]

Yes, and had you read the Fallout bible quote you'd posted AskWazzup, you'd have found that fusion (as in nuclear fusion) powered is what the car in Fallout 2 is and, based on the dubious scientific basis of the series and sci fi as a whole, Fallout 3's cars are of a similar ilk.

I'd expect more cars in Fallout 3 than in the other 2, DC is a more urbanised area than the West Coast of the US portrayed in Fallout 1 and 2. However, the existence of nuclear cars in the setting was not Bethesda's idea, and thus they should not be blamed for it. As I've said, them exploding is a different kettle of fish and I agree that Bethesda should be blamed for that.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

The funniest of things, if the cars explode so easily after 3-4 shots, how come they came unscathed out of the Nuclear onslaught??

 

[AskWazzup]

Yes, and had you read the Fallout bible quote you'd posted AskWazzup, you'd have found that fusion (as in nuclear fusion) powered is what the car in Fallout 2 is and, based on the dubious scientific basis of the series and sci fi as a whole, Fallout 3's cars are of a similar ilk.

I'd expect more cars in Fallout 3 than in the other 2, DC is a more urbanised area than the West Coast of the US portrayed in Fallout 1 and 2. However, the existence of nuclear cars in the setting was not Bethesda's idea, and thus they should not be blamed for it. As I've said, them exploding is a different kettle of fish and I agree that Bethesda should be blamed for that.

I found the nuclear car idea in the first games pretty good, since the cars were pretty rare and it was explained that they ran on these cold fusion power cells, which isn't a part of our life yet, but neither is it idiotic. It's based on plausable theoretical concepts and fits in pretty good as a piece of science fiction.

Can't see who would complain about the fact that there are nuclear powered cars. Though what bethesda did with these, is a whole new story....

 

[MrBumble]

The funniest of things, if the cars explode so easily after 3-4 shots, how come they came unscathed out of the Nuclear onslaught??

Yeah. And just imagine what would have happened during a pile-up...An entire district scrapped off the map, science ftw !

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I'd expect more cars in Fallout 3 than in the other 2, DC is a more urbanised area than the West Coast of the US portrayed in Fallout 1 and 2.

Wrong. The Bay Area and the LA metropolitan area are both heavily populated, urbanized, and full of cars.

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

I actually think just listing these things as if they were on the same level of idiocy is letting Beth off the hook pretty easy. Considering how much stupid shit is a part of the main quest in Fallout 3, with whole locations dedicated to vampire wannabes and superheroes, as opposed to retarded sidequests like Anna in FO2, I think the dubious winner is very much clear here.

Don't just say "Nuclear Powered Cars" and crap on Bethesda for it, say "Nuclear Powered Cars that go mini Hiroshima when you breathe on them to hard!", and crap on Bethesda for that, as opposed to the misleading comparison given by Seymour the spore plant

Wait, what? I was referring to explosions there. I can see how the wording would throw you off, my bad and all, but "misleading"? I grouped both cars and bombs together for a reason, they're both part of the inconsistent treatment of nukes compared to the former games. You don't see me complaining about nuclear powered energy weapons in there as well, do you?

 

[sarfa]

Wait, what? I was referring to explosions there. I can see how the wording would throw you off, my bad and all, but "misleading"? I grouped both cars and bombs together for a reason, they're both part of the inconsistent treatment of nukes compared to the former games. You don't see me complaining about nuclear powered energy weapons in there as well, do you?

Ah- ok. The wording did throw me off, thats how it mislead me.

The Bay area and LA are only small parts of of the setting in Fallout 1 and 2. DC is part of one of the largest urban conurbations in the world- by setting the game entirely in an urban area (as opposed to in part) one would thus expect to see more cars. Not the whole of the area in Fallout 1 or 2 is completly urban like it is with 3 (from what I've heard).

Mind you from what I've heard (having not given Fallout 3 a spin yet) where Fallout 1 and 2 had wasteland, Fallout 3 has a ruined city, which is the main reason why I said it's a more urban area and why I expect there should be more cars.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I have a question. It's possible there's a simple explanation.

If this town called Megaton is built inside a crater, and there's an unexploded bomb in the middle...

What made the crater if the bomb never exploded?

If the bomb impacted with enough force to make a huge crater, wouldn't it be obliterated? Or was the crater made by a different bomb, and then this bomb was brought there afterward?

Just curious.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I have a question. It's possible there's a simple explanation.

If this town called Megaton is built inside a crater, and there's an unexploded bomb in the middle...

What made the crater if the bomb never exploded?

If the bomb impacted with enough force to make a huge crater, wouldn't it be obliterated? Or was the crater made by a different bomb, and then this bomb was brought there afterward?

Just curious.

it's explained in the game and no, it's not from the bomb. i agree there's more than enough to nitpick in this game...but that's not one of 'em.

 

[analord]

I don't know. Vampire teenagers and wannabe superheroes sound pretty cool.... Sounds a lot more action packed then helping a ghost find their lost jewelry....

 

[mulaalia]

I don't know. Vampire teenagers and wannabe superheroes sound pretty cool.... Sounds a lot more action packed then helping a ghost find their lost jewelry....

Helping the Anna was a pretty good quest no mater how ridiculous that sounds. I mean scaring the shit out of Joey that sells jet for 500 is fantastic not to mention killing the greedy bastard, on the other hand blood ties is just stupid without any redeeming factor except killing the cannibals for bad karma.

 

[TheRatKing]

Since when was Fallout good because it was action packed?

 

[PhillyT]

I don't know. Vampire
Helping the Anna was a pretty good quest no mater how ridiculous that sounds. I mean scaring the shit out of Joey that sells jet for 500 is fantastic not to mention killing the greedy bastard, on the other hand blood ties is just stupid without any redeeming factor except killing the cannibals for bad karma.

First off, the Family are not vampires, they are adhering to the concept to create some form of structure. Second, the quest isn't that bad, no worse than the Temple in FO2.

I think I am getting some of what people are trying to say here. I was thinking this morning that I would have loved another isometric Fallout along the same lines as the previous ones. I would have loved it if it had been the same quality as the previous two. But with the direction Bioware was going, the game wouldn't and couldn't.t have compared to those first two. Things were changing.

I think people are letting that affect their opinions on Fallout 3 too much. It is different, but I think it still did enough things right to be looked at as more than just a pile of junk. There are few logical arguments that can be made which would imply it is worthless. They created a great setting, which people have admitted too.

Yes things are awfully close together, but there could be a little abstraction that could be applied, since even DC isn't done to scale in anyway.

Yes there are alot of wooden buildings around, but there were also still edible frozen dinners left in the open and not frozen in FO1 even. Degredational consistency is suspended equally across the three games.

Yes cars explode. It isn't that big a deal, it isn't that common or useful, and it isn't that illogical. As far as "how did they survive the war?!!?" arguments, the areas you find them in were obviously never hit with a full nuclear blast. There wouldn't have been anything left of anything.


Where the game suffers most is the feeling of shallowness, the lack of a fully formed environment in the small nature of the map, and the poor depth most characters have. This does suck and detracts from the long term enjoyment of the game.

What I do like are the interesting little places you can find, the neat throwback weapons, and the sense of style. Yes, playing the game feels like it is more an homage to the previous games, but what else could it be? It still follows all of the archtypes, the concepts, and the style. But it wasn't made by the same team.

Enjoy the aspects that are a success, try and ignore the poor sections and forget your apathetic pining for a true isometric sequel.

As for the main quest, I thought Morrowind had an awesome main quest. This and Oblivion were horrid.