No More Moore!

[welsh]

Keep on Rockin in the Free World!

Great tune! I am so glad Moore ends Fahrenheit 9/11 with that tune- quite appropriate and it kicks ass.

I saw it last week and enjoyed it.

Yes, there will be lots of criticisms that Moore is biased. But he never says he's not. Sure he's on the left-wing, but that's not such a terrible thing.

You got to wonder why all these folks are out to bash Moore, why Jeb Bush's Florida threatened Disney with tax consequences if they released the flick, why republicans sought to boycott the theaters showing the movie, why some tried to call it campaign advertising.

Or why people are so afraid of a little free speech.

Go to the movie, make up you're own mind.

There are a couple of things that stood out to me-

(1) the connections between the Bush family and the Saudis, including the Bin Ladens, which makes me wonder if all this close government- business relationship that the Bush family has enjoyed for the last few years is really a good thing for the US. The ties are quite disturbing to say the least.

(2) The pictures- We might not like the pics that Moore uses but they are telling us something about Iraq and the middle east. Do US soldiers act so badly in Iraq? Not all, true, but some- or have we forgotten that whole prison thing already?

(3) the bit where Bush is going on his campaign fund raising and he says to a crowd. "Some of call you the 'haves' and 'have mores'. I call you my base." Which makes you wonder if the current administration is really about making the rich richer and fucking everyone else.

Have the poor and middle classes been fucked by GB.

(4) American casualities. We have lost about 1000 people in Iraq. But we often forget about those guys who have lost arms and legs.


Is he telling us stuff that we didn't know? Not really. In the past year a lot of this has come out. That Bush- Saudi-Bin Laden connection?
House of Bush, House of Saud?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-7017926-1035021?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

So yes, Moore is on the far left, but as in Bowling for Columbine, his point seems more to make you think than for you to reach conclusions.

Would you trust a president whose family has made billions connected to the Bin Laden and Saudis? Could there be a bit of a vested interest there?

 

[John Uskglass]

Or why people are so afraid of a little free speech.

Go to the movie, make up you're own mind.

I did (before you). And I decided that Moore is a communist fatty who has nothing important to say.

(1) the connections between the Bush family and the Saudis, including the Bin Ladens, which makes me wonder if all this close government- business relationship that the Bush family has enjoyed for the last few years is really a good thing for the US. The ties are quite disturbing to say the least.

How? The Bin Ladens are close to the Rockeffellers of Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia is critical to the American Economy, particularly oil, which the Bush family is in.

Also, the Bin Ladens are not the Hitlers.....most of them are just rich, princes who's worst evil is supporting Islamic schools and missions that spread violence.

I'm not saying that I don't feel a bit queasy about it, it's just the nature of our relationship with Saudi Arabia.

(2) The pictures- We might not like the pics that Moore uses but they are telling us something about Iraq and the middle east. Do US soldiers act so badly in Iraq? Not all, true, but some- or have we forgotten that whole prison thing already?

That was such bullshit. Like with the "OMFG HE'S A COLLAGE STUDENT" thing.

You DO realize that, in all likelyhood, he was a terrorist?

Also, what did you think of the OMFG BUSH Ist LIKES ARABS photo montage? I thought it was rascist.

(3) the bit where Bush is going on his campaign fund raising and he says to a crowd. "Some of call you the 'haves' and 'have mores'. I call you my base." Which makes you wonder if the current administration is really about making the rich richer and fucking everyone else.

The guy has a sense of humor, sue him.

Still better then Kerry at that damned Bush-Celebrity Hate fest.

Would you trust a president whose family has made billions connected to the Bin Laden and Saudis? Could there be a bit of a vested interest there?

Yes, there could.

But there is'nt, and even if there was, helping the Bin Laden family is helping a mostly fairly modernized Saudi family which = good.

 

[welsh]

Or why people are so afraid of a little free speech.

Go to the movie, make up you're own mind.

I did (before you). And I decided that Moore is a communist fatty who has nothing important to say.

Yes, but you generally think just about everyone who isn't on the right wing is a threat or a commie.

(1) the connections between the Bush family and the Saudis, including the Bin Ladens, which makes me wonder if all this close government- business relationship that the Bush family has enjoyed for the last few years is really a good thing for the US. The ties are quite disturbing to say the least.

How? The Bin Ladens are close to the Rockeffellers of Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia is critical to the American Economy, particularly oil, which the Bush family is in.

Also, the Bin Ladens are not the Hitlers.....most of them are just rich, princes who's worst evil is supporting Islamic schools and missions that spread violence.

I'm not saying that I don't feel a bit queasy about it, it's just the nature of our relationship with Saudi Arabia.

No, and here is where you are mistkaen. It's not our relationship with Saudi Arabia that worries me. It's the Bush family's relationship with Saudi Arabia and the Bin Ladens that worries me.

How many companies did Bush blow before presidency and how many were funded by the Saudis?

How do you think the Saudi's might buy our presidency?

(2) The pictures- We might not like the pics that Moore uses but they are telling us something about Iraq and the middle east. Do US soldiers act so badly in Iraq? Not all, true, but some- or have we forgotten that whole prison thing already?

That was such bullshit. Like with the "OMFG HE'S A COLLAGE STUDENT" thing.

You DO realize that, in all likelyhood, he was a terrorist?

Also, what did you think of the OMFG BUSH Ist LIKES ARABS photo montage? I thought it was rascist.

You are not saying the prison scandal didn't happen are you?

I was thinking more about the pictures of wounded children, american GIs who have lost legs and arms, and the fat cats who are making a lot of money in this war.

(3) the bit where Bush is going on his campaign fund raising and he says to a crowd. "Some of call you the 'haves' and 'have mores'. I call you my base." Which makes you wonder if the current administration is really about making the rich richer and fucking everyone else.

The guy has a sense of humor, sue him.

He should. Last anyone said he had $280 million for his campaign, most of which coming from the top 1% (actually the top 10% of that 1%).

Are you suggesting this is a guy who lacks vested interests?

Still better then Kerry at that damned Bush-Celebrity Hate fest.

Oh the Coalition of the Wild Eyed? Vs the more compassionate conservative president who-

(1) Rushed us to war,
(2) Lied to us
(3) has screwed the environment
(4) Is denying aid to families in need
(5) who botched the war on terrorism
(6) who allowed 9/11 to happen because he cut funding
(7) who gave juicy tax cuts to the rich but left the poor out of it.
(8) allowed america to lose more jobs than any president in years (and though we are getting jobs back, they aren't paying very well).
(9) Cut funding to education
(10) Has made the US the most hated nation in the world
(11) Has used terrorism as a political excuse to push through violations of public policy
(12) Who has reduced transparency of government.

and the list goes on.

Hell, I'm pissed off too.

I mean instead of saying that Bush is facing the Coalition of the Wild Eyed, perhaps he might ask-
(1) Why is the country more divided now than any time since Vietnam
(2) why so many people are pissed off with him that there are even rock concerts to get rid of Bush.

Would you trust a president whose family has made billions connected to the Bin Laden and Saudis? Could there be a bit of a vested interest there?

Yes, there could.

But there is'nt, and even if there was, helping the Bin Laden family is helping a mostly fairly modernized Saudi family which = good.

Nothing like having a foreign special interest telling you what the administration should be doing, is there? Of course another president might get in trouble for this as he's supposed to be serving the american people, not the bin laden family, or his own.

But that's what you get for aristocrats in the office.

 

[John Uskglass]

Yes, but you generally think just about everyone who isn't on the right wing is a threat or a commie.

No, I don't. I think alot of people are commies (Vidal, Chomsky, etc.) but most of them I have statements for that prove them to be.

I don't think Paul Begala, Al Franken or O'Bama are commies. I don't think the vast majority of Dems are commies or threats, but I think having a weak president in the white house IS a threat, thus I think John and John are one.

No, and here is where you are mistkaen. It's not our relationship with Saudi Arabia that worries me. It's the Bush family's relationship with Saudi Arabia and the Bin Ladens that worries me.

How many companies did Bush blow before presidency and how many were funded by the Saudis?

You missed my point. The Bin Ladens are a very, very, very wealthy and influential family in Saudi Arabia. Hell, they own a half dozen HUGE American companies. Thus, as Bush is in the oil industry, they deal with Saudi Arabia, thus with Bin Laden.

How do you think the Saudi's might buy our presidency?

Do you think the Democratic party is impervious to special interests? Quite to the contrary.

You are not saying the prison scandal didn't happen are you?

I was thinking more about the pictures of wounded children, american GIs who have lost legs and arms, and the fat cats who are making a lot of money in this war.

It did. And it was unfortunate. But that's a minority, and Moore tried to make American GI's look like a bunch of Nazis.

He should. Last anyone said he had $280 million for his campaign, most of which coming from the top 1% (actually the top 10% of that 1%).

Are you suggesting this is a guy who lacks vested interests?

Yeah. Getting money from corrupt unions, corrupt laywers and the NAACP is SO much nobeler.

(5) who botched the war on terrorism

:

Have anything besides Michael Mooreesque anicdotal evidence for that?

(6) who allowed 9/11 to happen because he cut funding

That's totally, utterly, remarkably absurd. Clinton had the WTC bombing, and the millenium bombing did'nt happen because some police had some sharp eyes.

It would've happeend under Gore, admit it.

(Cool allowed america to lose more jobs than any president in years (and though we are getting jobs back, they aren't paying very well).

Yeah. Jobs in the service sector are SO low paying.

(10) Has made the US the most hated nation in the world

They hated Bush because he was Bush, there was nothing he could have done to stop that.

Also notice that when he came into offfice things where already in place for them to hate us.

 

[John Uskglass]

Don't expect me to respond for the next day. A really cute Democrat from Hyde Park was just here, and I'm just fucking stoked to see soemone from the UofC in this suburban hellhole.

I can't belive I gave her money though.

 

[Bradylama]

Well Gingersnaps. I don't suppose threadmakers can close their own threads can they?

 

[Bradylama]

You got to wonder why all these folks are out to bash Moore,

Well, I don't like Moore because he's a lyer, and makes a mockery of the Documentarian's art.

I already posted this in the thread I made, but this article by Christopher Hitchens pretty much sums up why I detest Moore as a film maker.

 

[Montez]

Don't worry about it being closed, just let it drop to the bottom of the forum.

 

[Buckle]

At base I think Moore is a propagandist and attention-whore, as ready to carve up the truth for his own ends as much as any politician or pundit. He's much more talented and creative than Limbaugh and O'Reilly, for example, but I don't think he's fundamentally any different from them. I do agree with some of his opinions and views, but I really can't stand the way he communicates them.

Very well put. Ditto from me.

 

[EyeMaster7]

Don't worry about it being closed, just let it drop to the bottom of the forum.

I don't think this is going to work. Can you merge the two topics into a new one entitled "We love marylin moore"?

 

[Gwydion]

Thar she blows! The white whale breaches!

 

[TheDiscipleJohn]

He's a propagandist and the populace chows down on his excrement because it's what they want to hear.
I'm sure the executive office is the seed of all our problems [/sarcasm]

 

[RAKTHEUNDEAD]

I don't think the vast majority of Dems are commies or threats

According to The Political Compass: www.politicalcompass.org, almost all of the candidates for the presidency were authoritarian rightists, which hardly qualifies them as communists, let alone liberals(using the meaning which is implied by the word).

Yes, but you generally think just about everyone who isn't on the right wing is a threat or a commie.

Maybe YOU think that way, but there's a host of others. Syndicalists, socialists, greens, and a host of other political doctrines take residence in the left-wing.(This is directed to ConstipatedCraprunner).

 

[Montez]

Threads merged, so a few posts might seem out-of-context.

 

[John Uskglass]

According to The Political Compass: www.politicalcompass.org, almost all of the candidates for the presidency were authoritarian rightists, which hardly qualifies them as communists, let alone liberals(using the meaning which is implied by the word).

My, quite the scientific approach, a online political compass What next, ask the I-Chang if Chomsky was directly involved in the Seattle debacle?

Check Chomsky and Vidal, they'll come up as commies, and as a matter of fact when you take into account Moore's The Big One, he's as red as they are.

 

[Sander]

My, quite the scientific approach, a online political compass What next, ask the I-Chang if Chomsky was directly involved in the Seattle debacle?

*smack* That political compass takes the actual definition of communism and tries to compare the stances of those communists and the attitudes of thoe communists to other people.
How, exactly, is that worse than Republicans shouting "Commies!"?

 

[John Uskglass]

My, quite the scientific approach, a online political compass What next, ask the I-Chang if Chomsky was directly involved in the Seattle debacle?

*smack* That political compass takes the actual definition of communism and tries to compare the stances of those communists and the attitudes of thoe communists to other people.
How, exactly, is that worse than Republicans shouting "Commies!"?

So, in you're opinon, what are Chomsky and Vidal? What is a man who could easily be mistaken for the baron Vladimir Harkonen (only without the uber-cool flying ability) who talks about free enterprise not being in the constitution, or how evil corporatism is?

 

[Sander]

So, in you're opinon, what are Chomsky and Vidal? What is a man who could easily be mistaken for the baron Vladimir Harkonen (only without the uber-cool flying ability) who talks about free enterprise not being in the constitution, or how evil corporatism is?

Since I really don't know either of them, I don't know.
Then again, I can't find either of them on the political compass site, so I don't really see any problem in using it.

 

[Bradylama]

The political compass is a fairly good measure of one's political leanings.

I wouldn't call Chomsky a commie, either. He's more of a sensationalist nut.

 

[Wooz]

Teh Guru of the Alterglobalist left? Sensationalist? Heck, he's a political Hawking.

And remember kids, Corporatism is Evil.