Morgan_
Duckerz
I'm just sayin that it's awfully weird that we can enjoy eating them but fucking them is too far. Seems pretty illogical to me.
Dunno. Would you rather want to be eaten or raped?I'm just sayin that it's awfully weird that we can enjoy eating them but fucking them is too far. Seems pretty illogical to me.
I don't know why ... but fucking animals seems worse than well eating them.
For example I could think about nice, happy farm animals you know, spending their life being farm animals. And then they get eaten. That seems at least somewhat positive. The animals enjoyed a decent life. Before they became our meal. It's also rather normal in nature that some animals eat other animals. If only for the nutrients. That's at leas one scenario that I can imagine.
But I can not imagine any scenario where fucking animals would be acceptable or positive. There is absolutely nothing to gain here. It's simply sick.
I mean ... like no one ever said, yeah I had to fuck that animal to survive. That doesn't happen.
Besides it's also a false equivalency. Just because factory farming is well one of the worst torture animals can experience doesn't suddenly justify sex with animals. It's like as someone would say, Mfw when someone tries to convense me that beating wifes is okay, but slipping drugs in their drinks is immoral and abuse.
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Morgan_
Duckerz
Lol raped, obviously. We could stop here really.
Cultural norms mostly, especially if you don't need to eat them and most in the 1st world don't. Who is harmed here? The animal?
Some animals screw other animals, although rare. You're saying its better to get raised to be eaten and the eventually killed as opposed to not only not being killed but even getting to fuck a human which I guess is worse for some reason? Then again, I would not want to appeal to nature either as nature routinely kills the "unfit" among other things that we find reprehensible.
I mean most in the developed world eat meat because they like the taste. Not only that but livestock production aides in deforestation and various other environmental practices too. Killing and eating animals is worse than them fucking you from an objective view. It's hard to imagine as cultural norms shape our thinking.
Like I said, eating meat is harming the environment to an extreme degree. It's also not even about survival either. Killing is worse than fucking something, no?
And beating your wife is comparable to an animal getting off on you?
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Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I would argue that it does ultimately come down to the whole "Ick factor" involved in bestiality, as opposed to meat eating which is arguably a lot worse, but not considered as disgusting since it's more normalised.
In the same way that Ritualistic Cannibalism is, in my view, less of an atrocity than torturing and murdering 50,000 women under false accusations of Witchcraft, yet still people use cannibalism as an arguement for cultural superiority: not because it's the worse crime, but because it's the more yucky one.
With all that said, I do still morally oppose bestiality on the grounds that consent is not something that animals are capable of freely giving. Though there are layers, I would say that getting fucked is a lot less objectionable than doing the fucking.
In the same way that Ritualistic Cannibalism is, in my view, less of an atrocity than torturing and murdering 50,000 women under false accusations of Witchcraft, yet still people use cannibalism as an arguement for cultural superiority: not because it's the worse crime, but because it's the more yucky one.
With all that said, I do still morally oppose bestiality on the grounds that consent is not something that animals are capable of freely giving. Though there are layers, I would say that getting fucked is a lot less objectionable than doing the fucking.
Be convinced that spelling matters
Morgan_
Duckerz
TheGM
The voice of reason
I knew that song would be posted sooner or later, but never thought it would be you to do it. not bad.
caplanchy
First time out of the vault
This is why when I remove to a remote rural area, I will take up hunting.
So, NMA has finally devolved into arguments about wether eating meat or bestiality is worse.
Good job.
Good job.
Now I know what to imagine Morgan be like ...
I ain't buin da chicken from you ...
But I think we can both agree that the way how animals are treated today - in general - is wrong.
I ain't buin da chicken from you ...
I think you're missunderstanding me here ... what I am saying is that comparing one bad thing to another bad thing doesn't mean that either one of them is a "OK". So to speak. It's creating an equivalency which doesn't exist. I mean in a perfect world we would neither fuck nor eat animals or subjugate them to the way how they are treated in factory farming where the best day the animal probably has is when it's killed ending its suffering. But alas we're note living in such a perfect world. And I am saying, eating animals (in general) is better than fucking them. From a human stand point. And yes some animals also do engage in this behaviour you explaind but it's far far far faaaar more rare than one animal eating another one. The way how we humans process and eat meat today is an issue yes. But just from an evolutionary point of view we humans have been eating meat probably for the last 100.000 years. If not even longer when you look how many ape-like creatures also sometimes consume meat. The reason why we humans did it was from a point of nutritional value. And not to torture animals. Doesn't mean we have to keep this practise when we have alternatives. But that's a whole different discussion. And there is a very good chance that factory farming will become obsolete in the near future - Lab-Grown Meat - Scientific American.And beating your wife is comparable to an animal getting off on you?
But I think we can both agree that the way how animals are treated today - in general - is wrong.
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Yeah animals aren't treated well when it comes to feeding this many people affordably. As a former vegetarian, I was always down with the idea of hunting for meat or having farms that aren't cramped and shit. Whatever, you get the idea. Factory farming is going to be fucked up because there's too many of us and it sucks. I don't think killing another animal for sustenance is wrong on that basis alone. It's literally part of nature.
inb4 someone says we somehow lived through the ice age without hunting and only foraged for berries.
inb4 someone says we somehow lived through the ice age without hunting and only foraged for berries.
Morgan_
Duckerz
Lab grown meat isn't immoral imo I'm just not sure what the carbon footprint of it is. Would have to be lower I would think. Besides, I eat fish constantly, but I consider that to be pretty low on the hierarchy of suffering if you will. On a side note, today I was thinking:
In all seriousness though, animals that recognize themselves in the mirrior should be afforded some form of personhood and individiual rights. Maybe not equivalent to people, but something more along those lines if they are of that level of awareness. Iirc, seals understand that a+b=c and more than that I think animals ban become less animal if they are around humans. We kinda influence their behavior to be more like us in terms of self control and such if trained properly.
Animals become less animals if they hang around the tool using animals that developed complex language?
Morgan_
Duckerz
I'm not quite sure, but it seems that way sometimes. Not the same, but comparable to kids being around adults act and even become somewhat more mature by being in close proximity to them. Your thought process is even a bit different, or it was for me atleast. I can't actually be cartain though if I'm being honest.
I don't really consider humans to be animals either for most of the population though.
I don't really consider humans to be animals either for most of the population though.
Dayglow Drifter
Mildly Dipped
Morrisey has entered the chat
I mean you can feel that way all you want but we are still animals. We didn't sprout out of dust and sheer will.
So you're not a creationist.
Morgan_
Duckerz
Yeah, this is something that's been an off/on topic in a discord I'm in and I'm in the "not an animal" camp. I don't really want to be combative here about it though as that is just draining on everyone so I'll finish with just taking an agnostic position.
The thing with creationism is. The people believing in it are nutjobs. Plane and simple. You don't have to be an atheist, agnostic or religious person for that. Creationists always argue in bad faith. It's part of what makes creationism creationism because it's not founded on any measurable or verifiable observation. It's merely "belief". But belief can not explain what is observed. Not if you want to actually understand what you observe. And people that are deep down in to creationism are well, kinda unhinged in that matter.