OOC- Zombie Apocalypse Chapter 2- General Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Helbent4 said:
Thanks for the information, I had a look. While Erica has probably visited most of these fields or at least flown over them. I have not, so I can't really make that call. Does she have a clue as to which specifically would be the best bet given the above criteria (well-organised, defensible around the halfway point)? If she does not have a clue, then for now she'll make for the NSP pad at Kearney Municipal Airport for refueling.

She makes her unmodified Idea roll:

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=978440

(How do you embed the links into text?)

Like this - I'll follow this post up with another one with BBCode disabled so you can see the code, or you can just click Quote on my post and it'll come up.

Erica's Idea roll has let her know that landing at any municipal airport is a bad idea. She couldn't land at Alliance or Scottsbluff in Chapter 1 because they were too badly infested, so she had to go all the way to Brownson. Even that was highly dangerous.

The first link I posted on the rules thread has details not only on the landing field at Brownson, but also McCook Army Airfield (later McCook Airport), which is southwest of Lincoln and a decent distance north of McCook itself. It was closed for the final time around 1970. I'm not sure if there would be fuel stored there or not, though.

Mr. Handy said:
Erica is from the Chadron area, and her family has a farm nearby. It would likely be self-sufficient in terms of water and food.

I will keep that in mind. Chadron is only about 140 miles due North of the T-Bone/Motel 9, but about 430 miles from Omaha. She has no particular desire to return to that death trap and once discharging her passengers, might just head straight there from Omaha. It's also out of the fallout path from Warren...

Yes, Chadron is too far out of the way, in northwestern Nebraska. If it weren't, Harrison would have been a better choice as it's more isolated. And while it's out of the fallout path from Warren AFB, it's in the path from some of the missile fields.

Looks nice. The box magazine for that weapon looks like it's internal, not detachable. For reloading, the bolt is pulled back, and the rounds pushed into the top of the magazine by thumb. So instead of having 41 full and 2 partially-empty magazines, she would have 2x boxes of 100 rounds plus 10 loose rounds in her pockets. The rifle is behind the pilot's seat (which in helos is located on the right).

I'll edit the weapons list to reflect how the ammo is stored. If the rounds are inserted individually, then only two bullets can be reloaded per combat round rather than simply swapping in a fresh magazine.

Excellent. Probably the helo has GPS as well. Which may fail months or years into the future, but that's not a problem for now. The binos and NVGs are stored under her seat. I think it's daylight now?

The helicopter does have GPS, but for some reason the GPS network isn't working today... Good thing Erica has high Navigation(Air) skill. It is daylight right now (current time is almost 11:20 AM). It should still be daylight when the chopper reaches Omaha, but flying out could be a different matter.
 
Hey Group.

Glad to say that I'm back, and I plan to take Duke, Ortega, Hockey, and Wallace back after the next update.
 
Thanks, Steve.

Stompie, welcome back! You can take them back now if you like. I just updated several hours ago. It'll probably be a few days before the next update, which should give you time to catch up. The zombies to the west are way out of Hockey's range for now.
 
I've got some paperwork to catch up on, so I can wait until the next update, if That's alright with you, Mr. Handy.

I Picked up a book on Modern military infantry tactics, employed by the United States armed services. Very interesting stuff.
 
Mr. Handy said:
Erica's Idea roll has let her know that landing at any municipal airport is a bad idea. She couldn't land at Alliance or Scottsbluff in Chapter 1 because they were too badly infested, so she had to go all the way to Brownson. Even that was highly dangerous.

The first link I posted on the rules thread has details not only on the landing field at Brownson, but also McCook Army Airfield (later McCook Airport), which is southwest of Lincoln and a decent distance north of McCook itself. It was closed for the final time around 1970. I'm not sure if there would be fuel stored there or not, though.

Jonathan,

As a rule of thumb, stored fuel goes bad after a year or so. This is because the volatiles in the hydrocarbons evaporate. Tanks have a pressure release valve to facilititate this. If the pressure is not relieved then stored fuel can even become explosive (in high enough temperatures). Cars and military ground vehicles may be able to use degraded fuel, but jet engines (like helicopter engines) cannot use old kerosine (JP-4, JP-8 ). So no, fuel stored back in the 70's would not work to well. ;)

This may be a short trip. With no way to refuel and lacking the range to make Omaha in one hop, whoever needs to get there should plan on walking a good part of the way (or realistically, taking ground transport).


I'll edit the weapons list to reflect how the ammo is stored. If the rounds are inserted individually, then only two bullets can be reloaded per combat round rather than simply swapping in a fresh magazine.

That's cool.

The helicopter does have GPS, but for some reason the GPS network isn't working today... Good thing Erica has high Navigation(Air) skill. It is daylight right now (current time is almost 11:20 AM). It should still be daylight when the chopper reaches Omaha, but flying out could be a different matter. :wink:

GPS is just a radio signal. It can be blocked and jammed. During the invasion Iraqi forces tried to jam GPS signals using equipment bought from Russia. GPS needs to be constantly updated because of the precision of the system. If these updates are not made on a regular basis, then GPS becomes more and more inaccurate over time, even in only a matter of weeks.

Following the Interstate or Route 30 should not be a problem even at night, given any kind of night vision or a spotlight. If they're anything like the Trans-Canada or the Interstate I traveled over in North Dakota, it's straight as a ruler and unmistakable. Getting to Omaha in the first place will be much more difficult because of the aforementioned fuel problem and no good place to refuel.


Okay, I see she's almost at the T-Bone, has almost no fuel left and has agreed to take the Doc and Stephanie to Omaha. Kind of makes you wonder why a truck stop has JP-8...
 
After a few hours of poring over topo maps and scouring googlearth, I have found 2 likely airfields to stop at, assuming Erica can get fuel at the T-Bone.

Johnson Lake Landing Field is 200 miles away, Hanson Field is 210 miles. Johnson Lake is bigger and has a body of water at it's back, making it more defensible. It's 7 miles South Lexington (pop. 10,000) on I-80, and 7 miles North of Elwood (pop. 730). The lake is a reservoir for a hydroelectric station, and it's possible there are National Guard there protecting it. There may even be local electrical power if they "islanded" (isolated) it from the electrical grid to keep it from burning out in a surge or blackout. While it's pretty unlikely that the undead from Lexington and Elwood have made their way there (out of earshot and over the horizon) there is some development along the lake there, so there could be infected there.

Lexington and Johnson Lake Landing Field.

Johnson Lake Landing Field.

Aerial photo of the landing field.

Hanson Field is even smaller, there is only a handful of buildings there. The closest town is Bertrand (pop750), 12 miles away. It's too new to show up on the older topographical maps. Other than that, it's in the middle of farmland that's in the middle of nowhere.

Hanson Field is the little speck in the middle of the map. More buildings have been added since this map was made.

Aerial photo of the strip.

Looking closely, the adjoining buildings are a farm. The farmhouse is to the North, one barn is to the West, the long building in the middle is a metal shed and the building on the bottom is another barn or hangar. The building on the East side of the strip is what passes for an office, If there is fuel, that's where it'll be.
 
Going through Chapter 1, I have a few notes to make:


1. Chinese nukes cannot reach past the West coast, unless they're SLBMs. Either way, their nuclear doctrine is "minimal creditable deterrence", not "counter-force". That is, they would not even plan on hitting Warren, but on creaming cities like Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, etc., and only in retaliation for hostile strikes. China is also the only nuclear power with a declared "no first strike" policy. This is a non-issue as revealed in the text, but just an FYI.

2. Also, to get around the disruption of multiple detonations, current nuclear warfighting doctrine is to use a technique called "time on target". All strikes are synchronised to hit the further targets first, then "roll" back over the closer ones in a coordinated wave. Thus, Russian missiles would first nuke targets in the South and then work their war progressively to the North to avoid interfering with in-bound strikes. This takes a lot of co-ordination when launch sites are thousands of kms apart and flight times can vary by up to 15 minutes or so, meaning launches have to be staggered.

3. No Soviet Union since 1991. It's just "Russia" or the "Russian Federation" now.

4. Russia poses a definite threat of accidental launches here. After the end of the Cold War the Strategic Rocket Forces suffered severe cutbacks and now their ability to survive (or "ride out") a first strike like US nuclear forces is in question. This is one of the foundations of "Mutual Assured Deterrence" (more commonly known as "Mutually Assured Destruction") and is the reason nuclear forces are so well-protected: they are supposed to absorb the first blow of an aggressor, with enough strength left surviving to effectively retaliate. As this survivability is currently somewhat in doubt, they therefore rely on "launch on warning". That is, retaliating while the enemy strike is still in-bound (like in the movie "Wargames", which unofficially is not the US' nuclear policy) before it hits. But their strategic warning system suffered cutbacks as well, so their radar net had a lot of big holes in it making it kind of tricky to determine if an enemy is actually attacking in the first place and then to decide whether to retaliate or not. Typical "game theory" indicates that the biggest temptation would be to "use it or lose it" if you rely on LOW.

5. Complicating things even further is a Soviet-era strategic nuclear command-and-control system called "Dead Hand". It's designed so that once turned on, it will automatically signal the commanders of the strategic nuclear forces to launch a retaliation strike on the USA if sensors detect nuclear strikes on Russian soil. You can see how this would be problematic if the Kremlin on one hand switches on Dead Hand to deter a possible US nuclear decapitation strike against Russian leadership, and on the other in the chaos a local commander decides to use an unauthorised tactical nuclear strike on a Russian city...

6. Israel's undeclared nuclear policy has been in the past not to directly strike the Arabs if they are in danger of being overrun, but to strike Russia instead because of traditional Russian (formerly Soviet) backing of their enemies. They therefore hold this over the USA for their unconditional support; if they are in danger of losing the war will not be safely contained in the Middle East but escalate to include Russia and then inevitably the USA.

7. Private citizens possessing a fully-automatic weapon is legal in the USA if it was manufactured domestically prior to 1986 (or imported and registered prior to 1968). There is no restriction in Nebraska against owning a fully-automatic weapon as long as it is legally registered and the owner (Mr. Foo) has no felony convictions and registers for a Federal Firearms License. (Sawed-off rifles and shotguns are illegal, however.) He could even legally own a machine gun if he possesses a Class III collector's license, but this is not necessary for an H&K MP5.

8. Detonating nukes over your own base makes sense if it's a high airburst and you have hardened shelters and bunkers. Your personnel may actually survive but the attacker (being in the open) would not, and the stockpiles would be intact for later salvage or use. Fallout would be minimal from airbursts, dissipating to safe levels within 2 weeks. Groundbursts would not only destroy the stockpiles, but leave the blast area and downwind heavily contaminated and unsafe for centuries.

9. I can totally see China using their nuclear deterrent on their own population.

10. Erica's helo's call sign is "NSP Tango-115", apparently.

11. "Canada Station- "Hello Nebraska... ya, Like it's really bad out there, ya?" Ha! Sounds like someone from Minnesota, Wisconsin or North Dakota. We tend to throw in the odd "eh?", eh? :wink: If they're seeing actual polar bears then they're up North, probably at CFS (Canadian Forces Station) Alert (Alert Bay, NWT), CF Northern Area HQ Yelloknife (NWT) or CFNA HQ Detachment Whitehorse (Yukon). The latter two are HQs for the "Northern Rangers", Native Aboriginal (Dene Indian and Inuit) reservists, and the main CF presence in the north. Not that this makes a difference now...

12. Cell networks and local circuits usually are jammed in a crisis due to overload. Although the demand should be dropping as the living people making those calls decline in numbers. However, long-distance lines are usually functioning if the trunk lines are intact and there is power.

13. The Marlin .444 is a bolt-action rifle, and uses an internal magazine that is not detachable. Like the Savage it's reloaded by pulling the bolt back and feeding in the shells through the top of the magazine one by one.

14. The Winchester .30-30 is a level-action rifle and is also fed from an internal magazine. It's a tube running along the bottom of the barrel like most pump or semi-auto shotguns. To reload there is a "gate" or port on the right side of the receiver. (On shotguns with an underbarrel tube magazine the gate is usually located on the bottom of the receiver.) Shells are pushed into the tube through this gate, also one at a time.

15. I figured out where the JP-8 came from. The stricken (now destroyed) Bell 406 Long-Ranger. Too bad Erica's bird is the shorter-range Bell 206 Jet-Ranger! At least if the Long-Ranger had anything close to a full fuel load then she should have a full tank and be set to make it the 200 miles to either Johnson Lake or Hanson Farm landing fields, and have 100 miles left over.

16. We have 2 semis? Cab-overs or long-nose? Trailers? Sleepers? FYI: these trucks have around 24 hours endurance (consume 12.5 gal/hr. diesel with 300 gal. in the twin tanks).

Man! That was tough. Hope Chapter 2 goes quicker.
 
Helbent4 said:
Going through Chapter 1, I have a few notes to make:


1. Chinese nukes cannot reach past the West coast, unless they're SLBMs. Either way, their nuclear doctrine is "minimal creditable deterrence", not "counter-force". That is, they would not even plan on hitting Warren, but on creaming cities like Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, etc., and only in retaliation for hostile strikes. China is also the only nuclear power with a declared "no first strike" policy. This is a non-issue as revealed in the text, but just an FYI.

That's true to the best of my knowledge too. Except of course for the SLBMs.


2. Also, to get around the disruption of multiple detonations, current nuclear warfighting doctrine is to use a technique called "time on target". All strikes are synchronised to hit the further targets first, then "roll" back over the closer ones in a coordinated wave. Thus, Russian missiles would first nuke targets in the South and then work their war progressively to the North to avoid interfering with in-bound strikes. This takes a lot of co-ordination when launch sites are thousands of kms apart and flight times can vary by up to 15 minutes or so, meaning launches have to be staggered.

Yes, true that. But the nice thing bout nuclear doctrines is that they can mix it up to confuse the enemy a bit. Why not strike the US ICMB fields and other strategic targets, then go after cities? I am not sure. But I assume that war planners run different scenarios.

How this will play out is unknown.


3. No Soviet Union since 1991. It's just "Russia" or the "Russian Federation" now.

Yep. This is probably the consequence of being a child of the Cold War. I am surprised that I screwed that up.

4. Russia poses a definite threat of accidental launches here. After the end of the Cold War the Strategic Rocket Forces suffered severe cutbacks and now their ability to survive (or "ride out") a first strike like US nuclear forces is in question. This is one of the foundations of "Mutual Assured Deterrence" (more commonly known as "Mutually Assured Destruction") and is the reason nuclear forces are so well-protected: they are supposed to absorb the first blow of an aggressor, with enough strength left surviving to effectively retaliate. As this survivability is currently somewhat in doubt, they therefore rely on "launch on warning". That is, retaliating while the enemy strike is still in-bound (like in the movie "Wargames", which unofficially is not the US' nuclear policy) before it hits. But their strategic warning system suffered cutbacks as well, so their radar net had a lot of big holes in it making it kind of tricky to determine if an enemy is actually attacking in the first place and then to decide whether to retaliate or not. Typical "game theory" indicates that the biggest temptation would be to "use it or lose it" if you rely on LOW.

Agreed. I have read about that as well.

5. Complicating things even further is a Soviet-era strategic nuclear command-and-control system called "Dead Hand". It's designed so that once turned on, it will automatically signal the commanders of the strategic nuclear forces to launch a retaliation strike on the USA if sensors detect nuclear strikes on Russian soil. You can see how this would be problematic if the Kremlin on one hand switches on Dead Hand to deter a possible US nuclear decapitation strike against Russian leadership, and on the other in the chaos a local commander decides to use an unauthorised tactical nuclear strike on a Russian city...

The old doomsday thing. I read about that as well. That the Russians have a "doomsday system" that will launch a strike in the event of strike.

But one of the things we have going in the story is quite a bit of uncertainty about what the Russians are up to or if there is a strike coming. We'd like to give our players as little info on this as necessary, given the nature of the game.

6. Israel's undeclared nuclear policy has been in the past not to directly strike the Arabs if they are in danger of being overrun, but to strike Russia instead because of traditional Russian (formerly Soviet) backing of their enemies. They therefore hold this over the USA for their unconditional support; if they are in danger of losing the war will not be safely contained in the Middle East but escalate to include Russia and then inevitably the USA.

I have never heard about that before. SO the Israelis would strike at the Russians with a aircraft delivered bomb? That's interesting. Got more validation on that?

7. Private citizens possessing a fully-automatic weapon is legal in the USA if it was manufactured domestically prior to 1986 (or imported and registered prior to 1968). There is no restriction in Nebraska against owning a fully-automatic weapon as long as it is legally registered and the owner (Mr. Foo) has no felony convictions and registers for a Federal Firearms License. (Sawed-off rifles and shotguns are illegal, however.) He could even legally own a machine gun if he possesses a Class III collector's license, but this is not necessary for an H&K MP5.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I had thought that automatic weapons were regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

The Firearms Owners Protect Act of 1986! Wow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

8. Detonating nukes over your own base makes sense if it's a high airburst and you have hardened shelters and bunkers. Your personnel may actually survive but the attacker (being in the open) would not, and the stockpiles would be intact for later salvage or use. Fallout would be minimal from airbursts, dissipating to safe levels within 2 weeks. Groundbursts would not only destroy the stockpiles, but leave the blast area and downwind heavily contaminated and unsafe for centuries.

Yep.

9. I can totally see China using their nuclear deterrent on their own population.

Yep

10. Erica's helo's call sign is "NSP Tango-115", apparently.

Didn't know much about call-signs. Thanks for the heads up on that.

11. "Canada Station- "Hello Nebraska... ya, Like it's really bad out there, ya?" Ha! Sounds like someone from Minnesota, Wisconsin or North Dakota. We tend to throw in the odd "eh?", eh? :wink: If they're seeing actual polar bears then they're up North, probably at CFS (Canadian Forces Station) Alert (Alert Bay, NWT), CF Northern Area HQ Yelloknife (NWT) or CFNA HQ Detachment Whitehorse (Yukon). The latter two are HQs for the "Northern Rangers", Native Aboriginal (Dene Indian and Inuit) reservists, and the main CF presence in the north. Not that this makes a difference now...

My bad. You're right. "eh" is better.

12. Cell networks and local circuits usually are jammed in a crisis due to overload. Although the demand should be dropping as the living people making those calls decline in numbers. However, long-distance lines are usually functioning if the trunk lines are intact and there is power.

For the sake of our story most of the communications networks have gone down. Why? That's a good question. Not all, however. There are some limited communications networks still active- such as Mr. Foo's little comm unit. Some of the local radios still work too, but not much.

13. The Marlin .444 is a bolt-action rifle, and uses an internal magazine that is not detachable. Like the Savage it's reloaded by pulling the bolt back and feeding in the shells through the top of the magazine one by one.

14. The Winchester .30-30 is a level-action rifle and is also fed from an internal magazine. It's a tube running along the bottom of the barrel like most pump or semi-auto shotguns. To reload there is a "gate" or port on the right side of the receiver. (On shotguns with an underbarrel tube magazine the gate is usually located on the bottom of the receiver.) Shells are pushed into the tube through this gate, also one at a time.

Suaside! You gun nut! You didn't catch this? I didn't think we had a problem with the 30-30 lever action carbine.

15. I figured out where the JP-8 came from. The stricken (now destroyed) Bell 406 Long-Ranger. Too bad Erica's bird is the shorter-range Bell 206 Jet-Ranger! At least if the Long-Ranger had anything close to a full fuel load then she should have a full tank and be set to make it the 200 miles to either Johnson Lake or Hanson Farm landing fields, and have 100 miles left over.

Yep. Although some of the landing fields have gone off or are over-run. THere were a few choices, and I think Erica figured out that she could make one of a few decisions. WHile there are airfields in Syndney and Kimball, those are hard to get at. There are perhaps private airfields in Brownson and Potter that I am not aware of, but... I am not aware of them.

16. We have 2 semis? Cab-overs or long-nose? Trailers? Sleepers? FYI: these trucks have around 24 hours endurance (consume 12.5 gal/hr. diesel with 300 gal. in the twin tanks).

Good question. We actually have three semis pulling three different loads. Regretfully one is repair. Baldwin and David's are both useable. I forget off the top which gear they are loading, but its in the notes.

Man! That was tough. Hope Chapter 2 goes quicker.

Chapt 2 is moving more quickly.

And yes, there are real and unreal elements at play. 100% real is not the goal here, having fun is.
 
Suaside! You gun nut! You didn't catch this? I didn't think we had a problem with the 30-30 lever action carbine.
as said, the .444 can be lever action, not only bolt. (see link)

the Savage is true, but it should be noted in my defense that that is a murican gun that isn't popular overhere and that it is a hunting rifle (and i'm not a hunting man). most guns in that type and price class overhere have detachable hinged magazines, but it appears that the Savage indeed doesn't. how very oldskool of them!

as for the .30-30 and the shotgun, i dont think there has been any problem with that, was there?
 
SuAside said:
not all marlin 444's are bolt actions: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/444.aspx

but anyway, don't expect 100% real life stuff. there have already been a shitload of impossible & unreal stuff used in here.

Suaside,

True enough. Although the game seems to be holding to a certain level of "technical" accuracy. It's easier to overlook the "supernatural" or other elements that are given for the sake of the story. If you don't mind when I point things out, then I won't mind if my suggestions are not always taken advantage of.

I stand corrected about the Marlin! Serves me right for not doing my homework! Like the Winchester, the Marlin .444 has a tubular magazine and is reloaded via a similar gate. Look at the posted illustration; the gate is that little slot on the receiver just below the ejection port, above and ahead of the trigger.

At least in the past, few so-called "big-bore" rifles like the Marlin, Winchester and Savage had detachable magazines. The main reason being that as primarily hunting rifles, there no reason to reload them in a hurry! The only bolt-action rifles that I can think of that have detachable box magazines are newer weapons like the Barret M90 (a Bullpup bolt-action version of the M82A1), the Accuracy International AWM and the Steyr Scout. The M40 sniper rifle has a detachable box magazine. But the rifle it's based off of, the Remington M700, and another M700 derivative, the M24 SWS, do not. The Garand does not have a detachable magazine and is clip-fed, but it's descendents, the M14A1, M21 and Ruger AC-556 (aka "Mini-14") do have detachable magazines. Some dedicated sniper platforms have detachable magazines and some don't, on the theory that snipers should take their time and make good one shot before relocating, and not need to reload in a hurry.

Other than that, bolt-action and lever-action rifles are now being passed over in the American shooting community in favour of sexier assault-style weapons based on designs like the AR-15, AR-10, Garand, FN FAL, G3 and AK-47. Interesting note about the AK-47: while it has an outstanding reputation for reliability albeit a poor one for accuracy, not all Kalashnikovs are made the same. That is, a genuine Russian-made AK with a heavy milled-block receiver is both reliable and surprisingly accurate (given the limited sight radius). But a cheap Izhmash copy and Chinese or Romanian knock-offs made from light stamped metal is neither and may fall apart after as little as 200 shots (100 if converted to full-auto).
 
I just got caught up on all the discussion for the past two days, and thanks for the info. I'm only going to go over a few points now, as I'm still hoping to make an update tonight (or failing that, tomorrow night). I think Welsh covered most of the issues.

Stompie, it's okay if you want to wait until after the update to pick up your characters again. I should be able to update Systematic Annihilation within the next two days.

Looks like McCook is out, but Johnson Lake Landing Field and Hanson Field sound like viable alternatives. After refueling at the T-Bone, Erica should have a full tank and be able to fly up to 300 miles on it. Refueling midway would provide enough fuel to reach Omaha with some to spare. It is a shame that the other helicopter got blown up, but at least they've still got this one.

The GPS updates are not coming through because the satellites are not functioning, though for now it should still be accurate even with stale data. I think Erica would have heard about the GPS problems from the radio transmissions during the last several hours. I-80 and Route 30 do make good landmarks to follow.

Regarding number 3 and the Soviet Union reference: I had noticed that too, but I had thought it was the character who said it who made the mistake because he still had a Cold War mindset.

About number 6: I have heard about Israel's policy of targeting Russia with its nukes, though I can't remember where I read it. Israel's nuclear policy is called the Samson Option (i.e., if they're going down they're taking everyone else with them), and there's a book by that name that describes it. I haven't read it, however.

About number 7: Maybe Azadeh just wasn't familiar with U.S. gun laws. Mr. Foo got his MP-5 in 1967 and has an FFL, so he's legal, as his wife pointed out.

Regarding number 13: The .444 Marlin in the game is the lever-action variety, so the rounds do not need to be reloaded individually.

About number 16: Baldwin's truck is carrying groceries, David's truck has lumber, hardware, and building supplies, and Wallace's tanker (which is being repaired) carries diesel fuel.

Congratulations on making it through Chapter 1, Tony. Chapter 2 is shorter than that so far, but it's moving along nicely.
 
welsh said:
That's true to the best of my knowledge too. Except of course for the SLBMs.

Welsh,

Of course! However, the SLBMs carried by the Han class submarines lack either the yield or CEP (size or "Circular Error Probability", IE: accuracy) to successfully take out hardened silos on their own. By using GPS the Chinese can improve their accuracy to the point where they could target individual silos, but GPS appears to be non-functional.

Yes, true that. But the nice thing bout nuclear doctrines is that they can mix it up to confuse the enemy a bit. Why not strike the US ICMB fields and other strategic targets, then go after cities? I am not sure. But I assume that war planners run different scenarios.

Hey, anything is possible. Doctrine is determined by capabilities. It does have to be worked out ahead of time because during a nuclear war command and communications are not a given! Short of an all-out exchange, there are LNOs ("Limited Nuclear Options") whereby a mix of military, government and civil targets can be selected. Say, to cause damage to the industrial base, destroy the power grid, eliminate Soviet ground forces threatening Europe (not so much any more), neutralise nuclear deterrent forces (counter-force), government/military command (decapitation) and so on. The US's doctrine is based on "flexible response", where the nuclear forces and command is hardened to survive a nuclear attack, and then launch a measured counter-attack and not rely on "canned" attack plans (Emergency War Orders).

I have to say, the thinking that using nuclear assets on urban areas only destroys needed infrastructure and little else is right on the money in my opinion.

The old doomsday thing. I read about that as well. That the Russians have a "doomsday system" that will launch a strike in the event of strike.

But one of the things we have going in the story is quite a bit of uncertainty about what the Russians are up to or if there is a strike coming. We'd like to give our players as little info on this as necessary, given the nature of the game.

Fine by me! This is FYI for the characters who'd know about this kind of thing, like Mr. Foo, the USAF folks, etc. The USA had a similar "fail-safe" like Dead Hand which was dismantled between 1992-'95. The 351st Missile Wing based out of Whiteman AFB was armed with the ERCS ("Emergency Rocket Communication System"). Minuteman III missiles with radio transmitters would take off and broadcast pre-recorded EAMs ("Emergency Action Messages"; IE: launch orders). This was in case the Russians launched a successful decapitation strike, orders for retaliation could be sent to nuclear forces. Unlike Dead Hand, which was automatic once turned on, the ERCS had to be ordered by living humans in the chain-of-command. Unlike the ERCS, Dead Hand is reputed to still be in operation.

Just one more thing for the players to worry about, if they know of it at all...

I have never heard about that before. SO the Israelis would strike at the Russians with a aircraft delivered bomb? That's interesting. Got more validation on that?

Bear in mind, this is just conjecture and unconfirmed information.

The IAF might be able to pull this off flying 1-way, and would have been required to do so prior to the development of the Jericho missiles. But their main delivery system would now be the Jericho II and III IRBMs. II could hit southern Russia, the new III can target Moscow. The following link outlines how the main Israeli missile complex is not hardened like US and Russian sites (the Chinese rely on deception and the "shell game" with multiple possible storage and launch locations). To me suggests that their doctrine is either based on LOW or (more likely) on pre-emptive strikes.

http://www.janes.com/regional_news/africa_middle_east/news/jir/jir990901_1_n.shtml

Trivia: Jane's Defense Magazine began out of data collected by Fred Jane for a naval wargame over 100 years ago, originally known as "All the World's Fighting Ships".

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/doctrine.htm

As the Israelis have never overtly declared themselves in possession of a nuclear deterrent, it's hard to say what their real doctrine is. But this makes sense and explains the US intervention in the Yom Kippur war pretty well. Washington may not have wanted to get directly involved if a conflict were to be confined to the Middle East. However, the implied threat of a general nuclear war would be considerable leverage for Tel Aviv to bargain with Washington for massive logistical support (which is indeed what happened in 1973).

This is more of an anti-zionist "conspiracy theory" angle on the subject:

http://www.carolmoore.net/nuclearwar/israelithreats.html


Thanks for the heads up on this. I had thought that automatic weapons were regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act

Quite interesting. Note that some states do ban fully-automatic weapons. Also, all after-market conversions are illegal.

10. Erica's helo's call sign is "NSP Tango-115", apparently.

Didn't know much about call-signs. Thanks for the heads up on that.

No worries. I emailed a friend who was a policeman in rural Missouri, figuring it would be pretty similar. For the other police and military radios if you want call signs randomly choose a letter (in the military phonetic alphabet) and number, and Bob's your uncle. Like "Charlie-Two", "India" or "Indigo-Zero Seven", "Zulu-Four Four" etc. Traditionally, the unit CO's call-sign is usually "(something)-Six", although they're getting away from this. Now they will be "(whatever) Actual" to indicate this is the unit CO.

Also, in the past there were 10-codes and various security protocols. Nowadays with digital encryption, listening in on police channels is impossible. So the militia would not be able to listen in with a scanner, assuming the NSP has upgraded it's comms in the last 5 years, which is pretty probable given the DHS funds floating around for this. However, police radios can access the older analog CB channels. The common police practice is to use "plain text" or just spoken English with a minimum of codes and jargon, as it appears that they cause more confusion than they solve. Like, "what the fuck is a "10-663" again? Fellating a Kiwi fruit? Where's that damn code book!"

Saying "over and out" is improper radio protocol. "Over" means your finished transmitting and are waiting for a reply, "Out" means you're signing off. I'm not sure if anyone's said this, but "repeat" is also verboten; use "say again" or "I say again" instead. ("Repeat" over a military channel is always a priority request to repeat an artillery fire mission and many police are ex-military.) 10-4 ("Roger") and 10-20 (location, often abbreviated as "Twenty") are the only common 10-codes still in use that I know of.

My bad. You're right. "eh" is better.

But we're still touched you thought of us!


12. Cell networks and local circuits usually are jammed in a crisis due to overload. Although the demand should be dropping as the living people making those calls decline in numbers. However, long-distance lines are usually functioning if the trunk lines are intact and there is power.

For the sake of our story most of the communications networks have gone down. Why? That's a good question. Not all, however. There are some limited communications networks still active- such as Mr. Foo's little comm unit. Some of the local radios still work too, but not much.[/quote]

Understood. Just pointing out that this is something that Mr. Foo and anyone else who's read a government disaster pamphlet or watched the media in the aftermath of Katrina might know.


Yep. Although some of the landing fields have gone off or are over-run. There were a few choices, and I think Erica figured out that she could make one of a few decisions. While there are airfields in Syndney and Kimball, those are hard to get at. There are perhaps private airfields in Brownson and Potter that I am not aware of, but... I am not aware of them.

Well, given the fuel she's aiming at either Johnson Lake or Hanson Field. They're both isolated. Googlearth lists local airports.


16. We have 2 semis? Cab-overs or long-nose? Trailers? Sleepers? FYI: these trucks have around 24 hours endurance (consume 12.5 gal/hr. diesel with 300 gal. in the twin tanks).

Good question. We actually have three semis pulling three different loads. Regretfully one is repair. Baldwin and David's are both useable. I forget off the top which gear they are loading, but its in the notes.

Which notes?

I only ask because I think those are more viable transports than the chopper, which has a limited range. Take those, add some "hillbilly hadji" armour (improvised steel plating like US Humvees in Iraq) to them and the tow-truck (to remove wrecks/blockages), and you're good to go. Once van trailer for people/supplies, plus a tanker for fuel. Or a flatbed for the chopper. You never know....
 
Chapter 2 Notes:

1. The military personnel I've talked to say that Martial Law does not work in the sense that the military tells the "civvies" what to do, and they do it or die. That's a de facto military coup, and thoroughly illegal. Martial Law is a set of legal rules in support of what is called "aid to the civil power". That is, in the strictest sense they are there to aid the civilian authorities, not boss them around under threat of death!

Now, the USAF team is "just following orders", orders they were given previously. But this so-called "Nuremburg Defense" has no legal or moral basis. Military personnel are, or should be, be just as thoroughly familliar with the concept of a "legal order" as much as discipline and the chain-of-command.

It is the moral and legal duty of all military personnel to refuse to obey illegal orders. As a friend in the Air Force said, "it's always best to find the moral high ground and place your artillery there, whatever the situation."

2. Attaching the 12 ga. Remington pump-action to an M16A2 or M4 is possible if it has the GL attachment points. It requires removing the shotgun's stock. This arrangement is called the "Masterkey". However, this is used only with a special frangible round for opening doors (you can't use the sights to aim).

3. Truck loads: "You can be sure those Nazi asswipes know what's going on today, and they ain't just going to be sitting on their butts. There's a whole bunch of stuff at the T-Bone they'll be itching to get their hands on. My own truck's filled with food, David has a load of lumber and hardware supplies, and you've got a tanker full of gas. All that's better than gold now." Too bad the trucks use diesel and the chopper uses JP-8 (kerosine).

4. Got it, Erica was in the Air Force.

5. If Baldwin or the others are long-haul truckers, then one or more of the trucks likely have "sleeper" cabs. That is, a compartment behind the driver with a bed for sleeping(!). So you could fit 3 in the front of the cab and cram another 3 in the sleeper. Semi trucks would not be bothered by running people over, if it were done at speed. There's just too much mass!

6. Who exactly heard from Hawai'i that an electrical fence kills them dead? Seems like something others should know about...

7. Interlocking fields of fire: tough to do with a singe squad/section and a 360 degree perimeter. "Interlocking" means everyone has a sector to cover, and these sectors overlap. A squad is usually deployed in line, with the MGs or SAWs (the squad's main firepower) on the ends (if there are two) so they can engage targets in a crossfire, under the command of the unit leader and assistant leaders so they can personally direct fire. If there is 1 MG/SAW then it's in the middle under the command of the unit leader.

In the current case, you need to cover a 360 degree perimeter, which is tough for anything less than a platoon or company. It seems that the most likely avenues of attack are from the East and West. So the 2 SAWs should be deployed to cover these directions, with the sniper team on the high ground in overwatch covering the South and keeping an eye on the rear (North) because trained sniper teams can cover 360 degrees. MGs/SAWs are usually deployed low to the ground to employ "grazing fire", that is, sweeping back and forth between knee and chest height on full-auto. This tactic may be modified under the current circumstances! Mines would be employed to cover the rear sector, that is, to the North (all other sectors are covered), along with warninig devices (flares, noisemakers on tripwires, etc.). And to deny other covered or screened avenues of approach that cannot be brought under direct fire. Mines are "area denial" weapons, and can also slow the enemy down.

8. The .45 ACP M3A1 Grease Gun is one of the most reliable SMGs ever made. In a a dirty state if it jams it's probably a misfire, and the most that should need to happen to clear it is pull the bolt back. It's so simple a weapon that the only safety is a cover over the ejection port that needs to be flipped up. To cock it, instead of a handle or cocking knob a finger is inserted into a hole in the bolt and that's how you pull it back. Pretty stone age!

9. Very little ammo is stored long-term in magazines. It's likely in ammo cans or crates of 2 cans with a half-dozen empty mags a weapon. (Although no need to change this now.) I don't know offhand how much is in a can, but I think it's around 500 rounds per can for .45 ACP, 300 rounds 7.62x51mm per can. For Garands a can holds 520 rounds pre-loaded into clips. .30-30, .30-06 and other "civvie" rounds are 50 to a cardboard carton, shotgun rounds 25 to a carton.

Wow, that's about it.
 
Hey Tony-

Thanks for the comments.
Honestly, I think I had always thought of the three trucks as being long-haulers. The T-Bone is just an old truck stop really, but considering the distances between large communities in that part of the country, I would have assumed that the trucks are just passing from one spot to the next. This, again, is based mostly on a very old recollection of my trip through that part of the country nearly 15 years ago, so I image much has changed. But my memory is that there was a whole lot of nothing between the Mississippi and Cheyenne and not much after that. So I would think these are long haulers with cabs.

As for the radio frequency and the Militia compound- its safe to say that no one really knows that the PMS know. That they, and the Hammonds, have been operating in the area for a pretty long time without any federal crack down is one of the mystery issues of this game- although one that few people have really asked.

Kimberly, the DEA agent, is investigating the Hammonds, but they've been around for a long time. According to a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center, since 9-11 the government has done very little against right-wing "hate" groups or terrorist organizations. Is this because assets are deployed elsewhere? Perhaps.

More in a bit.
 
Mr. Handy said:
Looks like McCook is out, but Johnson Lake Landing Field and Hanson Field sound like viable alternatives. After refueling at the T-Bone, Erica should have a full tank and be able to fly up to 300 miles on it. Refueling midway would provide enough fuel to reach Omaha with some to spare. It is a shame that the other helicopter got blown up, but at least they've still got this one.

Sounds good.

The GPS updates are not coming through because the satellites are not functioning, though for now it should still be accurate even with stale data. I think Erica would have heard about the GPS problems from the radio transmissions during the last several hours. I-80 and Route 30 do make good landmarks to follow.

Whenever she tries to connect with the chopper's GPS she gets a "cannot connect" error.

Regarding number 3 and the Soviet Union reference: I had noticed that too, but I had thought it was the character who said it who made the mistake because he still had a Cold War mindset.

No big deal, I was just amused to read that. I'm also a child of the Cold War. I'm running an "alternative history" RPG that takes place 150 years after a nuclear war with the USSR in 1989, and the Soviets are still around.

About number 7: Maybe Azadeh just wasn't familiar with U.S. gun laws. Mr. Foo got his MP-5 in 1967 and has an FFL, so he's legal, as his wife pointed out.

It's not a big thing either way (1967 would have been really unusual to have an MP-5: only a couple years after they were introduced and it would have the straight magazine; if he was CIA then he would likely have a Madsen M3 SMG, but that's of no real consequence.) I was just amused to find out that owning an automatic weapon in Nebraska is not illegal, and indeed does not require special permission.

Regarding number 13: The .444 Marlin in the game is the lever-action variety, so the rounds do not need to be reloaded individually.

Looking at the posted picture, it's loaded individually through the side ammo gate that's clearly visible below the ejection port and above the trigger guard. The magazine is the tube under the barrel.

About number 16: Baldwin's truck is carrying groceries, David's truck has lumber, hardware, and building supplies, and Wallace's tanker (which is being repaired) carries diesel fuel.

I've not been through Nebraska but I've been through N. Dakota, Montana and the Prairies. Most trucks on the Interstate and Trans-Canada were long-haul rigs in the long-nose sleeper configuration.

I took a good look at a long-haul Freightliner that came through the postal plant where I work. It seats 3 in the front: 1 driver in a large bucket seat and 2 in smaller fold-down seats beside him. In between the seats is a gap where the driver can access the "sleeper" part of the cab, a 4-by-6 foot bunk behind the driver, and under that are storage lockers. The sleeper part of the cab has hatches on either side for access. The one I looked at did not have a sleeper big enough to stand up in, but the bigger sleepers you certainly can!

70597147.jpg


Freightliner%20Pics%20040.jpg


If Baldwin is hauling groceries, then he's likely driving a "reefer" or refrigerated trailer. The next time he wants to take 'er for a little spin, especially off-road, I suggest unhooking the trailer first!

More defensive notes:

The junkyard is a real security hassle. It provides an attacker, and not just the undead kind, an almost completely covered route of advance. Because of the multiple winding corridors it's hard to cover them all. Fortunately, this can be dealt with by blocking off all routes except one (preferably one main one that allows a long "fire lane") and then covering that one lane. If we had more Claymore mines, then that would be a good place to put another. The other corridors can be blocked off by using the tow truck to drag wrecks across them (lying on their side wrecked autos would be hard for anyone to climb over, living or dead).

If the AF is planning on being around for a while then the long grass has to go to clear a free fire zone. As controlled a burn as possible would be best and quickest, but attract attention. There may not be a lot that can be done about that!

Speaking of mines, most of the Claymores should be set to command detonation by "clacker" from the OP on the Motel roof. Automatic is too wasteful when one target stumbling along alone can set them off. The only ones on tripwire would be the ones (if any) set to deny an attacker terrain for concealment or a covered approach (like a ditch, stand of trees, etc.).

Aside from mines, usually a defensive perimeter has fencing and barbed or razor concertina surrounding it. These measures will never stop a determined attacker, it's to slow them down in the kill zone somewhere between 200-300m. If we don't have fences or wire we have something that will do in a pinch: old tires. A belt 10-20 feet wide will slow down attackers where they can be mowed down, especially if there are more than one. Of course living targets won't have too much of a problem with tires but the unliving kind, fast or slow, will likely have real difficulties keeping on their feet instead of stumbling.

A typical fire team has 2 "riflemen", 1 "grenadier" with rifle/GL (usually the element leader with one of the riflemen as RATELO/radioman or with AT rockets), and a SAW gunner with a SAW (the other rifleman is the ammo bearer). Of course, in the current situation a rifleman from each fire team would be detached to handle the big radio set.
 
welsh said:
As for the radio frequency and the Militia compound- its safe to say that no one really knows that the PMS know. That they, and the Hammonds, have been operating in the area for a pretty long time without any federal crack down is one of the mystery issues of this game- although one that few people have really asked.

Welsh,

I would be almost but not 100% sure they couldn't crack digital encryption.


Kimberly, the DEA agent, is investigating the Hammonds, but they've been around for a long time. According to a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center, since 9-11 the government has done very little against right-wing "hate" groups or terrorist organizations. Is this because assets are deployed elsewhere? Perhaps.

This is odd, because domestic terrorism from right-wing groups has certainly plagued the USA in the past. If I were a cynical man, I would say that the conservative government is perhaps being cautious about upsetting groups that may have links to some of their voter base. :P As these kinds of extremist groups have little possible connection to Islamic terrorists, the government may have decided that it's better to keep their assets focused as much as possible on the foreign threat and let apparently sleeping dogs lie.

After all, all the US government needs right now is another Ruby Ridge or Waco...

If this scenario were set in Canada, the "PMS" would be the "HAMC" (Hells Angels Motorcycle Club). I don't know if you've heard about the ongoing trial of a local serial killer, Willie "Piggy" Pickton, aka "the Pig Farmer". Judging by his nickname, it's not hard to imagine how he disposed of his victims' bodies! (Allegedly 49 drug-addicted prostitutes, no intact remains were ever been found.) One thing that's been said is that he was a friend of local Angels who might have been using him as a fall guy for their own crimes. Of course, this is unlikely considering that the Angels rule the mid-level drug trade and and have nothing to gain by killing prostitutes, but still a juicy rumour.
 
In the kitchen-
"Hello," said Michael as he entered. "I'm Michael Walters. You wanted to see me?"

"I'll be with you in just a minute," said Dr. Blanco. "I'm Lieutenant Angela Blanco. Walters, you say? And you're British?"

"Guilty as charged, Leftenant," he answered.

"Do you know a Captain Miranda Reynolds?"

"Do I? Haven't seen Randy in yonks. How is the old girl, and how do you know her?"

Well? How does LT Blanco know her?

Also, nerotoxins (nerve agents) work by inhibiting bio-electrical signals through the body and nervous system, causing almost instantaneous death via asphyxiation (as all the muscles in the body lock up smiultaneously, including the heart and lungs). The introduction of nerve toxins is cutaneous (directly through the skin) and therefore does not requires a functioning respiratory or cadiovascular system. Given Dr. Hausmann's (or whoever's) theory about the undead running on bioelectrical power, would she have an idea this might be an effective way to "disconnect" them? She has Medicine and Biology, but to know for sure would take Chemistry and Medicine, I guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top