PC Gamer UK on NMA and AoD

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

Yes, which kills the whole idea of gaming journalism.

I've never had any problem with it. I subscribe to several ZDNet publications (EGM, Games for Windows, and OPM) and frequent GameSpot. I find them to be pretty dead on most of the time. I review the information they present, then I'll wait and play the game myself to determine whether or not it's worth my money.

 

[urikireOCS]

there was a time...

Subscriptions...


Some years ago I quit that and focused more on getting info from other sources. I'd rather save my money for the games themselves, but once in a blue moon a mag does something worth buying it for. For all this thumb wrestling, more than likely everyone here is going to play this game anyways. We'll see whats said then. I think a lot of this 'backlash' is from that little trip that gave birth to that review of the FO3 demo. As much as I'd love to play FO3 via BIS, this is Bethesda's chance to show me something. This will be the first game I buy and play from them...

 

[Neamos]

Again, I believe the person I referencing was Alec or Alex. The 42 hours of sleep comment was accompanied by eleventy paragraphs of "my whole life revolves around Fallout and I should immediately seek councel with Dr. Kevorkian" type stuff. Pathetic to say the least. NMA didn't get the reputation it has by "general silliness."

This. Explain this to me. Why does a post from a user with a history full of humorous, untrue{?} posts and stories is taken fucking seriously and used as an example of NMA stupidity? Or the obvious joke about girlfriend slapping? Do we not have a right to joke around? Will I prove SA is stupid if I dig up some posts containing idiocity?

 

[Meh]

I think when you judge NMA, or any community for that matter, you should do it by the sites and administrators official statements. After that comes the others, because they are just normal people with all the different opinions.

Just like you do the foreign policy, the ones who are responsible handle it and not the racist uneducated rednecks in the backwoods.

Still, though, I see no problem when some ignorant people bash the community and in my opinion NMA should take advantage of it. Marketing itself full of haters.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Some people just don't get it that the reason for most of the negative critique is that Bethesta is forcing their game to be canon, and the official sequel, tho it misses very important parts of the original games.

therefore, many of the things that are heavily discussed and criticised here, won't ever keep FO3 from becoming a successful game.

thats why the pc gamer dude (among others) thinks NMA is making a fuss out of nothing, and thus treats NMA as extremistic freaks.

this wont change soon, because only a few people understand the spirit of the original games (FO1+2). The others wont mind playing a game that is in no way true neither to the original fallout gameplay nor the canon, because it may be a relatively good game in itself.

I also believe that there would be only a minimum of hatred if they didnt make it a sequel but called it "based on fallout".


but now to something else; i keep wondering why the game press keeps attacking NMA on this unprofessional level. there's nothing more easy than scimming an online forum and taking quotes out of context that have a not-so-balanced attitude.

people who know what website the author is talking about would propably take a look theirselves, and those who don't wouldn't care at all. NMA wouldn't have a loss, either way, because it's open and free.

Why do they think that FO3 will become more popular if they keep bashing the most important FO Fansite?


ive been lurking for ages but this is my first post... please dont delete me...

 

[SpeaK]

I've never seen NMA bashing any other sites officially. I have seen quite a few sites/articles bashing NMA officially.

But we are the aggressive, frowning mouth -types, huh?

Imagine how easy it would be to go to any of the sites that has been bashing us, pick up even a LOT of quotes that are really out of line about us, and present them at the public. This, however, hasn't been done yet simply because we are NOT the frowning mouth-types everybody seems to think we are, you can find plenty of logical criticism here, objective even, I've RARELY seen a post by admins or other long time posters which would contain just emotional bashing or ranting without good argumentations.

Of course there a LOT of people who come here and post something aggressive and unconstructive against Bethesda. So what? Most of us simply don't agree with them, or at least not with the way the present their opinion. We just ignore them most of the time. But apparently these are the exact people who post things that are worth quoting according to the people who bash NMA.

 

[MurkyShadow]

The problem NMA has, arguments DO count, not just self-portrayal,
a high post count does not mean, your opinion is fact and can't
be proven wrong.

Unlike many other forums, this one is alive, filled with people
that not only have opinions, instead there are people with attitude.
Maybe this the difference between fans and fanboys.

It is not just a 'Fallout is teh greatest eva, let's praise and hail,
and let no infidels that say otherwise alive'-site.

Roshambo had a very rough nature, by times.
And it made it impossible by time to argue with him for some,
none the less he had many a point in what he was saying.

It is teh DrAmA that is to a good part kept away from NMA,
and it is the drama, that many people seek in teh internets.

 

[Wild_qwerty]

It is funny how we have a bit of a rep as being a bunch of grumpy mean bastards right over the whole damn net, but that was mainly just Rosh and that guy rebel he flamed lol

I was on a battletech forum and came across a thread that had people comenting on how bad we are.

note to the admins, can we please have a new forum where we can link to other people saying how mean we are? It could be like the nma hall of pain or something.

 

[Morbus]

:WARNING: :HUGE POST ON THE WAY:

Ahem... You do know what spandex is, don't you?... It's called DETAIL.

Hush! Details aren't important, style, mechanics, world, story aren't important either. You nitpicking nerds you... *tsk, tsk*

What do people complain about the most? Is it about non-spandex clothes? I don't think so

Mmm... I smell someone who saw Roshambo's back hand. Ahahaha! Angsty teenager at his best.

Ahahahahha!

the people here like the original Fallouts and would like the new one to be true to the franchise, imagine that!

The insolence!

We've waited for 10 years. 10 YEARS. It's been 10 years since the last time we could truly call a game "Fallout". Have you ever waited for another installment of a game to be released for that long?

Perhaps, you should. Then you'd understand why we're just a little bit sour.

That's not the issue. The real issue is that, for 10 years now, barely any decent RPG has been released. We have troika... what else? Not only did they kill Fallout, they killed troika too. Or troika suicided, I don't know...

Damn, I guess that means since there is no spandex in F03, there will surely be no detail(!!).

Straw-man. Shoo. Go awa'!

Shame, SHAME I SAY, on Bethesda for wanting to make their own game and not bringing in the old FO devs to direct them on what FO game they should make.

What the hell?! If they really wanted to make their own game, they should have made a new I.P. from start. How would you feel if some unkown guy, no, better yet, what if Uwe Boll would continue writing Tolkien's work? Or Lovecraft's? On top of that, what if he wanted to "reinvent" everything?! THAT is the problem sir. Is it hard to understand?

Ahh, like flies to a fly trap. If it isn't a fine, FINE, example of the type of dumbass that perpetuates the view of NMA as a complete joke. Also, using a fine example of one of the idiotic stereotypes NMA conveniently uses to classify anyone without negative things to say about FO3; Anyone that doesn't agree with our twisted, idiotic view of FO3 or the videogame industry in general is a "console newb," angry teenager, or Beth Plant.

Wow! Y'know? Somehow, I had the idea you were not trolling and were actually presenting arguments about things... Guess I was terribly mistaken... Wow... Stupid me, really.

Quick! Load the ad hominem attacks because I don't have a real counterpoint!"

Oh! The unbearable bittertaste of irony in my veins! Huh, wait, he actually had a counterpoint...

As long as they produce a good game [...]

That's what people argue about. Some think it is good, others don't.

[..] that maintains the setting [...]

It doesn't. At all.

quirks

Maybe... From what I've seen, it doesn't.

dialogue

Maybe, I'm optimistic on this one, and the majority here is. I think so, at least.

humor

It probably doesn't.

and to an extent, the gameplay

It doesn't. At all. At all, no way. If you care enough, read my (reasonable) opinion here: http://fallout3.wordpress.com/articles/morbus-gameplay-rant/

Will they do it? After reading Brother None and SuAside's preview, I have my doubt, but since I don't fancy being a fucking dumbass, I'll reserve judgement until I have played the final product.

So what? You won't say "I'm not liking the way this looks" and such?! You don't really care that much about whether the game is good or not do you? I don't think you do...

I don't quite see it that way. I see it as an example of a community of people that will find a way to criticize anything and everything about the game, no matter how small or petty.

Lol. Don't you tell me you NEVER saw anyone praising something about Fallout 3 here

Please provide specific examples of these "predictions."

Don't you know of his infamous post explaining how Fallout 3 was being shaped? From his words, he saw the game. Wow, you are talking about him and you DON'T KNOW about "his post"?!

Apparently, millions of people, including myself and several of my buddies, thought it was pretty good. Oh wait, I guess that makes us "dumb console gamers."

Argumentum ad verecundiam. Again. Anyway, it makes you illiterate RPG players, just that.

I've never had any problem with it. I subscribe to several ZDNet publications (EGM, Games for Windows, and OPM) and frequent GameSpot. I find them to be pretty dead on most of the time. I review the information they present, then I'll wait and play the game myself to determine whether or not it's worth my money.

You either pirate games or you have loads of money... Well, FYI, for many people here a game costs 1/5 of their revenues... How about that? Ah! Sweet USA, where a prison guard earns 11$ an hour... I'd be rich if I earned that much! And Portugal is not the worst of the worst...

This will be the first game I buy and play from them...

Traitor.

I've never seen NMA bashing any other sites officially.

I think I did... It's not surprising though... But I could be wrong. Well, RPGCodex does bash other sites, and that's probably the reason why other sites DON'T bash the codex. They know they can't stand their bashing fury Now, NMA is full of pussycats who don't fight back, so they take advantage of that. Well, I still think NMA is doing the right thing.

 

[RayTracer]

note to the admins, can we please have a new forum where we can link to other people saying how mean we are? It could be like the nma hall of pain or something.

That would actually be GREAT! Maybe with a top ten list by votes, that would make my day - every day!

 

[Bezimek]

note to the admins, can we please have a new forum where we can link to other people saying how mean we are? It could be like the nma hall of pain or something.

That would actually be GREAT! Maybe with a top ten list by votes, that would make my day - every day!

Second to that IMHO it is very interesting idea

I think I did... It's not surprising though... But I could be wrong. Well, RPGCodex does bash other sites, and that's probably the reason why other sites DON'T bash the codex. They know they can't stand their bashing fury Now, NMA is full of pussycats who don't fight back, so they take advantage of that. Well, I still think NMA is doing the right thing.

Pussycats ?? pussycats !! ..... a pussycats

 

[Neamos]

note to the admins, can we please have a new forum where we can link to other people saying how mean we are? It could be like the nma hall of pain or something.

Isn't that cross-site trolling?

 

[Tagaziel]

Morbus, there is only one cat here. And that's ME!

 

[fedaykin]

As long as they produce a good game that maintains the setting, quirks, dialogue, humor, and to an extent, the gameplay, I'll be perfectly happy. Will they do it? After reading Brother None and SuAside's preview, I have my doubt, but since I don't fancy being a fucking dumbass, I'll reserve judgement until I have played the final product.

Hm, so in other words: despite having read negative criticism that made you doubt the quality of the game, you choose to ignore that criticism completely and buy the final product, when it will be too late to voice any criticism, because the product will have already been finished. How can criticizing a game because you have doubts about its quality make you a fucking dumbass? Doesn't it make YOU the fucking dumbass for being gullible and buying the game anyway?

Congratulations to you for earning enough, but there are actually people out there who can't just buy every game they see on the shelves. Many of them rely on the gaming press. Yet if the gaming press refrains from negative criticism - an anomaly you yourself note to be true - how can it be trusted to provide an accurate evaluation of a product?

 

[Brother None]

note to the admins, can we please have a new forum where we can link to other people saying how mean we are? It could be like the nma hall of pain or something.

Isn't that cross-site trolling?

Yes.

So no to that idea. I dislike the thought of NMA turning into a circlejerk where we all chuckle about how much better we are than everyone else. Cross-site trolling doesn't just hurt the target forums, it also detracts quality from the home forum.

So no.

 

[Sander]

As Jeff Green pointed out in one of his editorials a few months back, you can't simply say "this game looks like it's going to suck" in the preview because you will then get shut out from any future previews or early reviews for titles from that company. You needs games to sell magazines, so it's a catch 22.

This is why official previews are something lacking. You can't piss off the devs or publisher. Unfortunate, yes, but I don't see a way around it.

So why, then, does the movie journalism industry not suffer from this ailment? Really?
There's a very easy fix for this: game journalism needs to grow the fuck up. In any other review industry, if a reviewer gets shut out for a previous critical pre- or review, all hell would break loose. In the game industry everybody says 'What can we do, we're obligated to give good (p)reviews."
Which is absolutely retarded.

I've never had any problem with it. I subscribe to several ZDNet publications (EGM, Games for Windows, and OPM) and frequent GameSpot. I find them to be pretty dead on most of the time. I review the information they present, then I'll wait and play the game myself to determine whether or not it's worth my money.

See, this is what I also don't get.
Go look up Oblivion previews, Oblivion reviews and Fallout 3 previews. Note how all Oblivion previews are gushingly positive, almost all Oblivion reviews proclaim it to be 'best game evar', yet a lot of Fallout 3 previews then continue to almost bash Oblivion for all of its 'obvious' faults, such as level scaling, stupid NPCs and bad voice acting. Why, when all of these faults are so very obvious, did they not factor into any of the Oblivion reviews?

EDIT:

I've actually asked for rationale a time or two, and some of it seems alien to me. Like I mentioned in the other post up there, the "It might be a good game but it isn't a good Fallout game" theory doesn't mesh with me. I can sort of see where they're getting it, it just doesn't click particularly well in my head.

Compare it to a Star Wars sequel that focuses on the Ewoks' struggle for a free moon, fighting against the Empire while the Ewoks have Jedi and a few spacefighters.
Sure, it has some of the Star Wars elements and hell, it might even be a good movie. But it's an absolute travesty when it comes to fitting with the previous movies. It wouldn't be a good Star Wars movie.

Similarly, Bethesda might be making a pretty good game right now. Maybe the combat system will work well for fans of FPS-games, for instance. But that it might be a good game, doesn't mean that it is a fitting Fallout sequel. It's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't be a good Fallout sequel, at least in my eyes.

 

[fedaykin]

So why, then, does the movie journalism industry not suffer from this ailment? Really?

I beg to differ. From my experience, movie journalism does tend to suffer from it to some extent. At least in the US. Look at films such as Pan's Labyrinth.

 

[Brother None]

I beg to differ. From my experience, movie journalism does tend to suffer from it to some extent. At least in the US. Look at films such as Pan's Labyrinth.

You're going to have to be more explicit than this. What is the analogy between movie previews and game previews, here? Cite some examples, name similarities.

 

[urikireOCS]

the weigh in lasted 2 secs - world record!!!

This will be the first game I buy and play from them...

Traitor.

Does


that mean I can't count on you for bus fare @ the bus stop while we wait for Fargo's next game? Sadness

Have you ever tried a game you wouldn't normally play? I do this once in awhile because it's a riot and it keeps the edge on. I have a grand total of 5 games I am looking forward to for the next two years. I have never seen the PC game world so barren. Carrying a torch for a company that tanked while having a hand in some of the best games on the planet is a colossal waste of my time. You must be aware of the complaints from people that will come no matter what a dev does? There are people who complained about FO3 via BIS. A retorical question for you to ponder - If you had the license and rights, what would your vers be?

It's pretty lame disclaimers are necessary when one is being serious, sardonic, etc. For the record, as for me smilies/frownies are used to reiterate a point...

 

[Sorrow]

Re: the weigh in lasted 2 secs - world record!!!

You must be aware of the complaints from people that will come no matter what a dev does? There are people who complained about FO3 via BIS.

So? No developer is perfect or has identical vision of the setting with all the fans. But there's a huge difference between not being perfect/identical and making something wrong/irrelevant.

A retorical question for you to ponder - If you had the license and rights, what would your vers be?

English, please?

I've never seen NMA bashing any other sites officially.

I think I did... It's not surprising though... But I could be wrong. Well, RPGCodex does bash other sites, and that's probably the reason why other sites DON'T bash the codex. They know they can't stand their bashing fury Now, NMA is full of pussycats who don't fight back, so they take advantage of that. Well, I still think NMA is doing the right thing.

Also, other sites don't bash DaC. NMA is too polite and too reasonable for it's own good .