There's no use in trying to explain the difference between an established franchise, spin-offs, and the failure of many other series when they have deviated from the formula. It doesn't help that the sperm that founded him was obviously running in the Special Olympics to think we'd entertain him just posting some drivel without having read any of the other information at hand.
Pete Hines Talks to IGN
- Thread starter Pope Viper
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limafoxtrot
First time out of the vault
I've read this board for a long time -- But the latest developments made me want to post.
First of all If Bethsoft makes a game called fallout 3 then it is a sequel, and should follow the core philosphy and style of the the games before. Fallout Tactics - not a squel - but a spin off - you can make a good game in the world, but not have it be a sequal. You can make bad ones too - see FO
OS -
If you want to make fallout 3 -- make it right. Would you want to see a turn based, isometric KOTOR 2 ? - I wouldn't . ANd I don't want to see Morrowind with guns. IF that is the game they want to make, fine - but don't use fallout in the name. It sets the game up to fail.
Getting away from turn based would be a huge mistake. It was such a core part of what made fallout fallout. I just can't see a way to do turn based in a NWN style.
First of all If Bethsoft makes a game called fallout 3 then it is a sequel, and should follow the core philosphy and style of the the games before. Fallout Tactics - not a squel - but a spin off - you can make a good game in the world, but not have it be a sequal. You can make bad ones too - see FO
OS - If you want to make fallout 3 -- make it right. Would you want to see a turn based, isometric KOTOR 2 ? - I wouldn't . ANd I don't want to see Morrowind with guns. IF that is the game they want to make, fine - but don't use fallout in the name. It sets the game up to fail.
Getting away from turn based would be a huge mistake. It was such a core part of what made fallout fallout. I just can't see a way to do turn based in a NWN style.
limafoxtrot
First time out of the vault
Oh - and I work in PR - Beth Soft really blundered with their announcment. It either shows they are going to do what ever they feel like, or they didn't do their homework - neither is a particulary good sign
God is Dog backwards
Mildly Dipped
limafoxtrot said:
I assume it had to be announced because Iplay wanted the shareholders to know about it and for people to buy stock.
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
limafoxtrot said:
Er, yes >_>
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
My feelings exactly, and i`m inclined to the second choice...
What is required to make a fallout sequel true to fallout will not be turn based, nor will it be SPECIAL... but if there is no bird view in some form or another be it isometric or not, it will be such a quantum leap from the originals that it won't be reckognized as of the fallout franchise at all... hell even FOT managed that much despite not even being an rpg...
But hey, didn't they just ensure us that: "it won't be a morrowind with guns" ?
Well then what the hell will it be, if it's not going to be drop down view??
not a 3d shooter, nor a drop down view... hmm...
Fallout 3: A Post Apocalyptic Tetris Game
Obviously they make their announcements so vague that it could be mistaken for just about anything, but I think it's pretty obvious they're here talking only of how their morrowind system is going to pushing the fallout world out, eg different landscape rendering (like kotor perhaps) and combat system, it'll still be a 3d shooter, period...
Also the: "you think we're going to be stuck with morrowind forever?" quote suggests that there is nothing basicly changing, only how they push the polygons and combat system will change, +/- other less important bits and pieces - physics, character interaction, ui etc. Nothing that will make it significantly different from morrowind as such - it'll just be prettier (probably).
But it's just a hunch, some reverse psychology, and a bit of game developement experience that tells me that...
didn't sim city try the 3d way and go back to 2d isometric though?
So I guess there's a small hope... but not until fallout 4.
But hey, didn't they just ensure us that: "it won't be a morrowind with guns" ?
Well then what the hell will it be, if it's not going to be drop down view??
not a 3d shooter, nor a drop down view... hmm...
Fallout 3: A Post Apocalyptic Tetris Game
Obviously they make their announcements so vague that it could be mistaken for just about anything, but I think it's pretty obvious they're here talking only of how their morrowind system is going to pushing the fallout world out, eg different landscape rendering (like kotor perhaps) and combat system, it'll still be a 3d shooter, period...
Also the: "you think we're going to be stuck with morrowind forever?" quote suggests that there is nothing basicly changing, only how they push the polygons and combat system will change, +/- other less important bits and pieces - physics, character interaction, ui etc. Nothing that will make it significantly different from morrowind as such - it'll just be prettier (probably).
But it's just a hunch, some reverse psychology, and a bit of game developement experience that tells me that...
didn't sim city try the 3d way and go back to 2d isometric though?
So I guess there's a small hope... but not until fallout 4.
Proxima said:
you don't know what 'excited' means
Proxima said:
which accounts for jack shit when it comes to staying true to Fallout 1 and 2. do you have any idea why people're having some trouble with Bethesda + Fallout 3?
Proxima said:
thought it was more like the situation's been ruled pretty fucking worrysome. can Bethesda make an excellent game that Fallout fans'll like? sure. will they? that's where the worry comes in.
far as my magic future-ball, i can lend it to you, but it's alittle worn out from forseeing the shocker that FO:BoS would be a worthless flop.
Proxima said:
it is
Proxima said:
you know, fuckhead, you're selling the exact same fantasy that Shadow Paladin and Elara and the rest of Interplay's hired monkeys did during FO:BoS. did you see how well it worked out then? why are you trying again now?
everyone at NMA and Duck and Cover and wherever else, is nothing but a vocal minority that in no way represents the majority of Fallout fans. they're impossible to please "hardcores" who don't matter when it comes to comercial success. right?
i've seen people argue for FO:BoS, and i've seen hired marketers make things up to promote FO:BoS and discredit anyone who looks at it wrong. if you hadn't carbon copied the hired marketers with every word you typed, i'd say you were the former. well, maybe you're just a fan of them.
Proxima said:
i remember that tactic. you know, it's still retarded. am i supposed to believe that you can't be assed to read why some people aren't super excellent with Bethesda's Fallout 3 right now? am i supposed to just think that you're thick?
Proxima said:
Fallout with no turn-based combat, Fallout with no SPECIAL, Fallout with no Fallout.
Proxima said:
only place we want that, is inside your own head.
Proxima said:
a place like this is where you can safely gauge the general sentiment of the Fallout fanbase. were you awake for FO:BoS? for Tactics?
Proxima said:
you live in a world where reality takes a seat and you're the star
Never played PnP I guess. We call it RPG but is realy is FRPG. F for fantasy. And I don't mean the setting because it can be anything, but the way it is played. The immersing goes on in your imagination not in your screen.Epidemic said:
BG, a.o. BIS games were PnP games transformed to CRPG's. Fallout started with the same point of view. At least that is how i feel about it. They made a ruleset for a PnP game and transormed it to a PC game.
RPG's are about being a hero or doing great deeds. You can't save the world on you own. You need your friends to help you. Frodo wouldn't get to Mount Doom if it wasn't for Sam. So you need a party. If you wan't to have any controll over them, you need to seem them. The best way to do this, is to use ISO. Like said before NWN uses ISO. It's 3D, with a moveable cam, but it's stays ISO.
RPG's are about the skills of your character. Not about how fast you can click your mouse. To make this realistic, you need a TB system. BG was TB, NWN is TB. You just don't see it. FOT has a CTB mode (the way that I play it). If you remove the AP bar you even think it's RT. When 10 people act together in TB it seems like RT.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Great post jr. congrats
DarkUnderlord
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
I know Briosafreak already quoted you but I'm going to do it again.limafoxtrot said:
This is *precisely* what has me concerned the most.
limafoxtrot
First time out of the vault
Mr. Teatime said:
Probably had to be done, but should have be done more skillfully as to not set off the customer base.
limafoxtrot
First time out of the vault
I'm with you as turn based being my favorite. If KOTOR would have been turn based in some way then so should the sequal.Darque said:Role-Player said:
Me too.
I prefer this perspective.
The same way Fallout is defined as much by the style of the game (tB/Iso view) as it is the stroy -- so is KOTOR, Morrowind, BG and many other series. Now Kotor is a 3rd person rpg and for #2 - I'm expecting more of it. Now if they wanted to make a game set in the same world - but say give it a different title - not KOTOR 2 - The sequel (like Fallout 3) imples the same form as its predicessors.
Sorry if I didn't word that the best.
Saint_Proverbius
Vault Senior Citizen
Turgon said:
Damn.. Let's see. Where to start.
Turn based, first and foremost, is sequential. That means it's based on an order of unit actions. One unit goes, then another, and then another. That's the way turn based is. That means only one unit in the game is doing anything at any given time. If one unit is moving at the same time as another, it's not turn based. That's simultaneous action, the exact opposite of sequential action.
CTB in FOT was a marketting ploy. CTB is real time. Just because there's the AP LED gimmick doesn't mean it's turn based. All that AP LED counter does is graphically display the time of actions. In fact, nearly all real time games ever made including timing systems for things such as fire rate, reload rate, movement rate, and so on. Doom, for example, had a certain rate at which you could fire a shotgun. It also had a certain rate for how fast you could move. Is Doom turn based? I don't think so. Is Total Annihilation turn based because all the units have different fire rates, reload times, and so forth? Nope, not at all.
The fact that actions in FOT all happen simultaneously and per second of time should tell you that it's not turn based.
Baldur's Gate also isn't turn based. At best, you can describe it as automated phase based. Sure, there's six second rounds and every action is done within those rounds, but all actions during those six seconds of real time are done simultaneously. If your Mage is slinging a fireball at the same time that kobold is firing his arrows, it's sure as shit not turn based. The same thing applies to NWN and KotOR.
Also of note, FOT doesn't even have the concept of rounds. It's completely and utterly real time when you're not playing it turn based.
In fact, you actually have to ditch certain things when going from sequential to simultaneous. Ever noticed how in Fallout, which is turn based, that when you deliver a mighty blow to someone, they slide across the map? That just doesn't work at all in simultaneous, because that sliding time is just time that everyone else can be pumping you full of lead. Why? Because everything is going on at the same time.
EDIT: Interesting that someone that sports the FO3 logo doesn't know what turn based is, isn't it? I think so.
Strange. I've been reading NMW - occasionally - for less than a year and I didn't expect any other response than what did occur from the people here. That's what makes them real hardcore fans, like you said. Not soft. Hard.Proxima said:
And quite frankly, I played FO and loved it, and when I heard about a second I had to have that instantly, and I liked it. I wasn't a real fan though. My biggest complaint was that I had hoped to see more of the Brotherhood of Steel. The Power Armor still defines my memory of Fallout. After playing FO2 I hardly cared about any sequels. But when I heard about Van Buren I was excited, and I found the very existence of FO
OS annoying.I'd rather have no Fallout than a game with the Fallout label that isn't true to the name. It's easy to not care about something that doesn't exist, but the idea that the FO series is "finished off" by a game that isn't what I like about Fallout is like an itch I can't scratch.
If anyone wants to make a game that is merely "inspired" by Fallout, I am fine with that as long as it isn't called Fallout. I like Shattered Oasis too, it's post-apocalyptic, it's NOT an RPG, and it's NOT called Fallout. I don't need a game to be labeled Fallout to enjoy it. If it IS called Fallout however, it better BE Fallout.
Executioner
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Proxima said:
Just because EA gets awards for sports games doesn't mean I have to like them.
Proxima said:
The phrase "starting from scratch" is what put us down the shit tube. They could've saved everyone lots of pain and death by just salvaging the existing code and working from there.
Proxima said:
Put up a poll somewhere and see if you're right. Numbers, not speculation.
Proxima said:
KOTOR ain't Fallout...'nuff said.
Proxima said:
Again, we liked the way the real F3 was shaping up, for the most part. That's why the phrases "starting from scratch" and "what we do best" have everyone climbing the walls.
You need to drop your view of 'if its popular, it must be right'. Online games are popular now, why not make F3 an online game like dingbat Herve has been preaching lately? KOTOR was popular, why not make every RPG like that? I guess variety isn't the spice of life anymore...
As we all...well...most of us know, Fallout without these things is just not Fallout. You know of what I speak.
You're right. I was thinking about how the game engine was working. Not about how its presented in the game. But I forgot to look at the other games (Doom, TA,...). Every engine works TB if you're a purist.Saint_Proverbius said:
If you judge people by their avatars and how it's related to their post, you better stay behind the door of your avatar.