Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Richwizard said:
You are comparing Apples with oranges, Mario is a plataformer, Fallout 3 is an rpg, different kinds of games depend on different things.....
Plot-holes and logical inconsistencies of FO3?
- Thread starter Anarchosyn
- Start date
This ghoul has seen it all
You are comparing Apples with oranges, Mario is a plataformer, Fallout 3 is an rpg, different kinds of games depend on different things.....
OK, let me ask a different question. Do you consider Arthur Pendragon and his Power Armored knights plausible? How do they fit into the Brotherhood of Steel?
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Those are Easter Eggs, and it has already been said those are not even canon.
The point is that FO2 is full of things that stretch plausibility, easter eggs or not, and I'm not going to nitpick about it. It's still a great game. FO3 has problems too (as evidenced by the existence of this thread), but I still find it enjoyable, if relatively short. Now that I think about, the length of the game is not my biggest complaint. It's all the freaking crashes!!! New Vegas is much more stable.
brandonhart61
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Richwizard said:
I would of thought that Vegas crashed more. It had so many bugs initially that I would of viewed it very negatively, were it not for Obsidians consistant patches, especially since my first playtime was about 21 hours then I went through a gate in Freeside and my save was corrupted. I was so pissed that day...
New Vegas can still crash occasionally, so don't forget to save. But with the current patches, it seems to run fairly well. FO3 on the other hand, has all the official patches it's ever going to get and it can still crash every few minutes. After a while I just get used to saving constantly, reloading when it CTDs, and just moving on.
CthuluIsSpy
A Smooth-Skin
About plot holes...
Can someone please explain to me how in FO2 a tribal could put on suit of power armor, an extremely advanced and sophisticated piece of equipment, without training? Or for him to instantly know how to competently use computers, energy weapons, small arms and repair machinery without ever seeing them before?
In FO1 it made sense, because the PC is from a vault where they have that sort of stuff, and to get Power Armor you have to join the BOS, who know how to use it.
Can someone please explain to me how in FO2 a tribal could put on suit of power armor, an extremely advanced and sophisticated piece of equipment, without training? Or for him to instantly know how to competently use computers, energy weapons, small arms and repair machinery without ever seeing them before?
In FO1 it made sense, because the PC is from a vault where they have that sort of stuff, and to get Power Armor you have to join the BOS, who know how to use it.
aboniks
Still Mildly Glowing
Unfortunately, FO2 was made before developers figured out that every video game is supposed to start with the player escaping from/being released from prison. The tribal thing is just an historical anomaly.
LambentEarache
First time out of the vault
I never said robots actually evolved. Only one robot changed its appearance: the Sentry Bot. Granted, it looks much better now. Doesn't look like something straight out of Star Wars.
Too bad they didn't keep the giant mechs though.
Too bad they didn't keep the giant mechs though.
sydney_roo
Still Mildly Glowing
Crashes is the problem I actually never experienced with either Fallout 3 or New Vegas despite constant complaints from the community. I tend to have an abundance of mods but I always use FO3Edit utility which I suppose is the main thing that kept my game from crashing or maybe there's luck factor involved. There are some moments I like about Fallout 3 exploration-wise and it provided a basis for Fallout modders which gave birth to some fantastic work (I am not talking about ridiculous Anime mods or cheat-god items) but I am much more fond of Fallout: New Vegas as a whole due to much better quests, better characters, better everything.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
sydney_roo said:
I used F3Edit and I still had crashes.
sydney_roo
Still Mildly Glowing
Then I reckon it has to be Gameryo enginge. It either runs well or terrible.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
sea said:
I tried it, but I still got way too many crashes. I gave up on it eventually. My next attempt with mods will be with the Ultimate Edition of FNV. I hope I can get a relatively stable load order with good quality mods.
DevilTakeMe
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
I want to like Fallout 3, I really do. I want to believe that it's good, but I find myself making excuses for all of its excessive shortcomings. I feel as though if I have to make excuses for it in order to accept is as good, I don't really like it, do I?
The central plot of Project Purity, for instance, is just one long string of circumstances that I find I have to excuse.
I don't know if it's a plot hole or a logical inconsistency, but take for instance: if you complete Tranquility Lane by playing along with Betty while gleefully telling her how much fun you're having in earshot of dog dad, your dad still says "You saved me" in a voice of wonder, even though he'd refused to do the same. Bonus points if you condemned the Vault 112 residents to a never-ending hell of being killed by Braun over and over again. Double bonus points if you beat Doc the dog with a rolling pin or stabbed him several times as the Pint-Sized Slasher.
I was hoping for a little more reaction. And I finally had to tell myself, "Maybe they didn't plan out multiple outcomes and only had Liam Neeson for a day."
At Project Purity, if you decided to blow up Megaton and murder a whole bunch of people, Dad's reaction is infamously... underwhelming.
"I am teh disappoint in you."
And it's not even anger. It's like I got caught cheating on a math test or something where I did wrong, but no one got hurt. No, I just killed an entire town, and Dad's only frowning at me in disapproval. I might feel a little bad about it, I might not, but I got away with murder and my only sentence is a look like Dad's debating on sending me to bed without supper.
I find myself have to excuse the lack of reaction as being parental, unconditional love as being stretched, or that Dad is more interested in Project Purity than a few people in a town he visited.
The central plot of Project Purity, for instance, is just one long string of circumstances that I find I have to excuse.
I don't know if it's a plot hole or a logical inconsistency, but take for instance: if you complete Tranquility Lane by playing along with Betty while gleefully telling her how much fun you're having in earshot of dog dad, your dad still says "You saved me" in a voice of wonder, even though he'd refused to do the same. Bonus points if you condemned the Vault 112 residents to a never-ending hell of being killed by Braun over and over again. Double bonus points if you beat Doc the dog with a rolling pin or stabbed him several times as the Pint-Sized Slasher.
I was hoping for a little more reaction. And I finally had to tell myself, "Maybe they didn't plan out multiple outcomes and only had Liam Neeson for a day."
At Project Purity, if you decided to blow up Megaton and murder a whole bunch of people, Dad's reaction is infamously... underwhelming.
"I am teh disappoint in you."
And it's not even anger. It's like I got caught cheating on a math test or something where I did wrong, but no one got hurt. No, I just killed an entire town, and Dad's only frowning at me in disapproval. I might feel a little bad about it, I might not, but I got away with murder and my only sentence is a look like Dad's debating on sending me to bed without supper.
I find myself have to excuse the lack of reaction as being parental, unconditional love as being stretched, or that Dad is more interested in Project Purity than a few people in a town he visited.
brandonhart61
It Wandered In From the Wastes
CthuluIsSpy said:
Exactly, all the games have these inconsistencies in one way or another. Fallout 3 is just the main culprit to be honest, but I still like it.
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
Probably. But the energy weapons are just like any other weapon. You aim, you pull the trigger. Reloading is the only part which could be different. It doesn't mean you actually know how to use it, but practice makes the master. Anyway, I'd expect less recoil with an energy weapon (a laser beam or a plasma steam is not an explosion) than with a regular weapon. That means someone less experienced could use it without hurting himself because he doesn't know how is he supposed to stand. I agree about the use of power armor. The other two points, if your tribal knows how to read, almost knows how to use a computer, the same for repairing.brandonhart61 said:
DevilTakeMe
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
CthuluIsSpy said:
Who said that the Chosen One hasn't seen more complicated equipment before? Arroyo has had visitors and traders in the past, afterall. Who is the person the Elder sends after first?
Vic, who had sold the Vault 13 water flasks as holy relics. What is not said is what other things Vic traded, or what other traders may have traded.
The thing is, there's no telling what kind of equipment Arroyo used to have. The village kept the Vault suit and the Pipboy mainly because they were left almost religious in nature. But did the Vault Dweller only have those two things when he settled in Arroyo? Highly unlikely.
Either Arroyo traded the other gear away or they couldn't maintain the equipment after years in a tribal environment. It's not impossible for the Tribals to have some kind of equipment. Especially if they have the test in the Temple of Trials where you blow one of the doors open with plastic explosives.
As for Power Armor, the assumption in Fallout 1 and 2 is that you can just put it on like any other armor, and you wouldn't need "special training" like you did in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I believe it was more for gameplay balance.
brandonhart61
It Wandered In From the Wastes
DevilTakeMe said:
It's suggested that the Dweller actually wandered to the mountains without a ton of equipment, but with a bunch of other dwellers who helped him establish a tribe. As for the stuff about the Chosen One using computers, energy weapons, small arms and machinery, it's just extremely unlikely.
The whole imagery of Arroyo evoked by the game to the player is an image of a primitive tribe with little experience of technology with their champion ready to save them. Ever see some of those still remaining tribes of Africa on a documentary perhaps? It's exactly like that, hunting being it's main skill with cooperation of its hunters efforts to capture prey for the tribes consumption. While they're not animals, they are primitive in that they rely on mostly primal instincts. Their ignorance as to the true meaning of the vault suit and pip boy only serves to illustrate their primitive nature of the world (just a jumpsuit all the dwellers wore and is nothing special, and the pip boy to mainly serve as a map and store objectives).
Even with traders coming sometimes and trading maybe something in the way of computers (also unlikely), they wouldn't learn anything, it's like a powerful alien race visiting us and giving us powerful and sophisticated technology which we would not possibly learn how to harvest. Also add in the fact they have no plug sockets and you get the idea. I guess the only thing open to debate is the brotherhood armour as wearing the armour is juxtaposed to 3's and NV's way as you had to be taught to learn it. Of course in 1 you had to join the brotherhood to gain possession of the armour and thus learn how to use it so that raises questions as to how the Chosen One learned how to use it.
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
In Fallout 1, nobody taught you to use the PA. In fact, you could just steal it, use it, and you don't give a single fuck about how to use it, you just do it. Also, in the Fallout setting you could easily assume they were designed to don't need any prior training (even if Fallout 3 and NV states the opposite, being the setting already made, the plot hole is mostly in these games, because they don't follow what was previously stated). It would be a huge "we don't know how it actually works", but then, most of the setting of any sci fi production is in the same place.
Plot holes are about consistency anyway, not about being possible in the real world. So, the plot hole comes from the inner contradiction, not from contradictions with real world.
Plot holes are about consistency anyway, not about being possible in the real world. So, the plot hole comes from the inner contradiction, not from contradictions with real world.
brandonhart61
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Oppen said:
It's a fair point about just being able to steal and use armour, I did mention that is is the only one open to debate but plot-holes are sometimes contradictions of the real world. Otherwise game developers wouldn't give a crap about their games being the same as the real world. That doesn't mean it's a plot hole of course if fictional elements are present like aliens ect. because that's part of the game itself. But if the people could fly without wings in Fallout 2 would you not label that as a plot-hole? Because as far as I know, flying people with no wings is not part of the real world or indeed Fallout 2 because it's physically impossible. What you're referring to is whether something is canon (which is in game consistancy), which is different from a plot hole. Of course some things can be considered inconsistent with Fallout 3, but all the games in one way or another have plot holes in some shape or form.