/pol/shit, Or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the shitposting

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Hassknecht, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Did I say it's not a problem? I don't think I said it's not a problem. No, I am pretty sure I didn't say it's not a problem. However, I am living here, I am working with those people you're talking about, I have first hand experience for the last 2 years. I also experienced something similar during the 1990s with refugees from the Balkan. And guess what? Germany is still here and it will continue to stay. What doesn't change however is the same xenophobic rhetoric of 'We're all doomed! DOOMED If we let them in!'.

    Same shit they said in 1990s when the Berlin wall droped. It will ruin us! Same shit they said when the east european countries (your nation too by the way) joined the EU. It will ruin us! And, who would have guessed it, they said it with the wars on the Balkan with all the refugees and they say it now with the refugee crysis from 2015. I don't think anyone ever said that it's perfect though. Yes there are issues, but we're far from some apocalypse. Seriously, if the German nation survived 6 years of war from 1939 to 1945, the Cold War, the Oil Crysis and a hell lot of other issues, then it will survive those illegal and legal migrants as well. 1800 or 18000, it's still not a number that would bring the German society to its knees, we're not talking about Luxembourg here. Once we're talking about 18 million per month or something, then we're in trouble. So if you're really fearing migration so much, then you should do everything you can to prevent the climate crysis as this will be the number one factor for mass migration in the next decades and we're talking about 100 million of people here.

    But for the moment? Those numbers are not serious yet. So stop this panic mongering. 2015 was in many ways a problem with 800.000 people, no one denies that. But Germany hasn't collapsed yet.

    Due to international martime and international law which Spain, Italy, Germany and almost any other European nation agreed to? Not to mention any human rights agreement you can think off.

    https://cild.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/KYR-Protection-and-Maritime-Safety_EN.pdf

    Is there a duty to rescue at sea?
    Yes, there is. Maritime law and the Italian Constitution (Article 2) are based oncooperation which is a fundamental obligation. International law (the Montego Bay Treaty and others, see glossary) requires States to require any masters of ships flying their national flag to fulfil their dutyto give assistance to anyone found to be in danger at sea, to inform the competent authorities, to provide initial medical assistance to the persons rescued, and to transfer the persons rescued to a place of safety (for a definition of ‘place
    of safety’, see question 8).


    And no, Lybia is not a place of safety, regardless what some right wing and extreme right wingers or populists claim. People which are send back to Lyba face a real risk of beeing tortured, inprisoned, raped and sold as slaves.

    What ever if the people which are rescued qualify as asylum seekers, refugees or migrants is a whole different qustion though and has to be decided from case to case. Yes, I understand very well that this is a complicated, and tiresome process, but I think human rights should be worth it to go trough some troubles. Every individual has the right to apply for asylum, of course not every individual has the right to migrate or to be accepted. But there should be a fair and lawfull vetting process.

    For decades nations like Spain, Italy, Greece and other border countries had to deal with a very unjust regulation for seeking asylum which left most of the burden on them, the so called Dublin agreements, and I do think it's time to change that process so the border nations aren't forced to take all of it alone.

    Experience tells us the people cross the sea regardless if there are ships to pick them up or not, besides the people those ships pick up are way to small compared to the number of people that try to cross the sea. It's often said the rescue operations work like a 'pull factor'. But that's a myth.

    Vincent Cochetel, who oversees the UNHCR's European operations, questioned the claim that NGOs are a pull factor for people leaving Libya to reach Italy. He noted while most NGO boats have left the sea rescue zones, the number of people attempting to reach Italy has almost doubled. Some 5,996 arrived in September, compared to 3,935 in August. "What was that argument of them [NGOs] being a pull factor?," he said.

    https://euobserver.com/tickers/139266

    Besides, the NGOs are a relatively recent occurance which was established exactly because the EU refused to act. So at which point would those NGOs be a pull factor when people try to cross the Sea for the last 40 years regardless if there are ships to rescue them or not?

    Operation Mare Nostrum

    A few years ago, there was a governmental (rather than an NGO) operation to rescue people making the journey across the Mediterranean Sea. Named after the ancient Roman name for the Sea, the Italian run, EU funded Operation Mare Nostrum ran for a year and rescued an estimated 150,000 people before being closed in October 2014. It closed, in part, due to lack of funding — the UK government, for example, refused to help fund it because it believed the operation was ‘an unintended “pull factor”, encouraging more migrants to attempt the dangerous sea crossing and thereby leading to more tragic and unnecessary deaths’


    The “belief” of the government ministers turned out to be based on nothing (except perhaps, one might speculate, xenophobia). The tragic irony of the situation was that more people attempted the crossing in the period after Mare Nostrum ended than during its operation (also see Kingsley, 127). Mare Nostrum wasn’t the pull factor critics said it was.

    https://lukeatthisblog.wordpress.co...ts-in-the-med-are-a-pull-factor-for-refugees/

    There is also a very ugly rhetoric hidden here if we start to describe 'rescuing' people which are desperate enough to take the risk of crossing the sea as a 'pull factor'. It means that we 'let' those people drown in the sea intentionally, with the targt to scare them away. What kind of logic is that? It's murdering people, that's what it is. Plane and simple. It's just as bad as like if our military would shoot directly at those ships and killing them. Hell, that would be at least honest.

    That's what the German Democratic Republic did, it had a border wall between West and East Germany, and anyone who tried to cross it would be eventually shoot. More than 100 people still died at the border, they got killed trying to cross it. And yet, people still tried to escape. And the main reason? It was a dictatorship. People didn't even starve to death in the GDR, it wasn't North Korea or Somalia.

    That's blatant racism. What's your next claim? That those 'niggers' from Africa are subhumans and totally deserve what's coming at them?

    You don't know those people and you do not seem to care to educate your self about them or their situation, their reasons why they leave their nations, you're lacking any kind of empathy here. And I find that disgusting.

    As a mather of fact, the majority of African migrants seek ways to improve their lives finding ways to support their families, the idea that all or even the majority of them just want to migrate into our social systems, is populism and not based on facts. We're only talking about a minority, if anything. There are studies about it, regarding the pull and push factors, the motivations and what people do once they reach their destinations. And you could easily educate your self about it. But is it really so difficult to imagine why someone would want to esacpe a place like Lybia, Algeria or Somalia? I suggest that you go out and actually talk to those people. That doesn't mean there aren't crminals or bad people among migrants and refugees, yes there are, but that's no reason to discrminate them all.

    My oppinion still hasnt changed on that part.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Rescue at sea is nice and all, but if you cruise up to the edge of libyan waters to wait for the traffickers to tow their dhingies right up to your boat, well, that's not really rescue, that's human trafficking.
    On the other hand, apparently the numbers show that the NGO rescue operations don't have much effect on the number of crappy boats being towed to sea. There are some conflicting informations on that, though, so not sure which one to trust. Everyone has an agenda, and everyone lies.
     
  3. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Stay strong, don't let that old nazi concept of untermenschen overwhelm you! Put that grandpa's SS helmet back in the shelf and don't let your right arm swing above your head just like that!

    What a wonderful pile of bullshit.
    You don't know anything about me or my nation, you don't seem to care to educate yourself about it, you're lacking any kind of empathy here. You're also burdened with heavy prejudices judging by how fast you jumped to remarks such as "typical eastern Europeans" after I trolled you the last time, which is also a blatant and deliberate racism against anyone living in eastern Yurop. And I find that disgusting.

    My neither.
    You wrote gay jokes online, you also wrote rape jokes online, you openly endorse other posts with stories full of sexual fantasies including sex intercourse with underaged kids, so you are perverted pederast and possibly violent child rapist judging by your online behavior here on NMA.

    On an unrelated note, these poor refugees are kept in Croatian asylum centers:
    https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2018/08/14/de517f1cbdf54e70.mp4
    Germany or nothing!
    Seems they are pissed off that there's bad food - spaghetti - which I don't blame them for, and they are threatening Balkanians that they'll go back to Syria any day, just imagine! I bet Croats must be devastated.
     
  4. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    There is a hell of a lot of propganda regarding the NGOs and their work in the mediterranean posted on the internet, however it's relatively easy to fact check it.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/are-charitable-ngos-trafficking-people-across-the-mediterranean/

    NGOs as human traffickers is mostly based on myths and baseless accusations, there is no evidence to back it up and so far (to my knowledge) no NGO was actually accused or convicted for human trafficking in court. You might have the opinion that this is what they do. But that's just an opinion as I beliee they don't, and it does not necessarily reflect the legal situation based on maritime and interntional laws. What we're currently experiencing out there, is a very ugly situation and we're playing semantics while people are tortured, sold in to slavey and drowing in the mediterranean. Europa! Where we care about human rights, as long caring is easy. But, even if some court would declare tomorrow the NGOs as human traffickers, that would still not change anything in my opinion, seeing as how it was once seen as illegal to rescue jews in Europe, granted that was a different time, but still laws can change. Acts of humanitarian aid, can be eventually declared as illegal rather easily - which is what Hungary is trying right now. But that doesn't mean it would be wrong. This rhetoric right now, against migrants and migration is in my opinion rather dangerous and worrysome as I experienced first hand, how some say "And we're coming for you next!". Can you promise me, that things won't get worse from here if the NSAfD reaches a majority?

    The current situation with Lybia and the Lybian coast however is very complicated for example. Have you seen what the Lybian navy is doing to refugees in their close proximity? Some claim, that they've killed people. There are some serious accusations against the Lybian coast guard, they might actually even violate basic human rights here, beating and abusing people, keeping them detained without reasonss, even leaving some refugees in the open sea to die. The Lybian coast guard is also far from beeing a well equiped and trained agency suited for search and rescue operations.

    And what we see right now is governments like Italy or Malta using every 'legal' trick they have to stop ships from geting out there trying to rescue people, even planes are stoped. Why are they not throwing those NGOs in a court if they are human traffickers? Why do they keep NGO planes used in searching for the people grounded, if the Lybian navy is doing everything correctly?

    Every respectable human rights organisation right now, like doctors without borders, is desperately in pointing out that we're experiencing grave violations against humanity in Lybia, and the EU is basically doing nothing about it even though they could, rather easily even (see Operation Mare Norstrum).

    This is simply all a very shamefull example for the European Union.

    You're right. I don't know anything about you and your nation. But that's not the point since we're not talking about your nation or you as a person, but the comments you're making here. And describing migrants from Africa as freeloaders without knowing them is simply put discrminatory and rasicm.

    Find the exact quote please where I threw every east european in the same basket or where I made discrminatory coments. Maybe you're missing the context of our conversations here? Or there is a little confusion?

    I remember vagule that I mentioned your comments are strikingly simmilar to the rhetoric that was rather common in Germany when the east european nations joined the EU. And many of the comments simply have been almost an exact copy of what you said about migrants from Africa, just replace Africans with East Europeans. And I told all the people who said that, the same thing I told you, stop to discriminate people based on a few bad examples, you don't know the majorty of east europeans.

    Granted I have no experience when it comes to Slovakia in particiular I havn't grown up there, but there certainly are issues in Eastern Europe when it comes to xenobhobia, at least if you trust amnesty international and what they say about the Sinti and Roma living in nations like Slovakia, Poland, Hungary etc. I also have some experience from Serbia, where my parents come from, and I am pretty certain that @Atomkilla can confirm that Snti and Roma are a touchy subject in Serbia. Leave alone when you talk with the common person about migrants from Africa.

    Nice way of dodging any of the points I made. What are you trying to tell me here? That we should send every Syrian refugee back, because some are unhapy with their food and want to return? If that story of yours is even trustworthy - Not that it would matter to me honestly as it's rather clear that we're not treating ALL PEOPLE coming from Syriah the same way based on the experience someone has with one or a few of them. Refugees are not loosing their status as refugees because someone is unhappy with his food.

    I can tell you for example some experiences I had with some Syrian girl who started to cry when she told me that people are posting her family name on facebook as part of a death list about people ISIS was looking for to kill.

    I can assure you, the taste of food was the least of her concerns in that situation.

    Or the teenagers from Afghanistan I worked with and the experience I made here when I used to prepare meals for them. One of them constantly complained how his food wasn't Halal till I told him, well no one is forcing you to eat what I prepare and you're always free to go and buy Halal meat from your own money, and the conversation was finished. The rest of the 15 teenagers didn't gave a shit if the food was Halal or not and never complained about the food I prepared for them and ejoyed it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    "WELL I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM SO I DON'T THINK THEY EXIST!"

    I hope you have your life ruined by a false rape accusation.
     
  6. peadar87

    peadar87 Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Jun 4, 2015
    Jeez, you're fierce angry altogether. Why can't you be more like @Hassknecht ? He can disagree with me without throwing the toys out of the pram
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Does that mean false rape accusation against some males equal out the sexism female workers experience? I am not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Is feminism as a whole bad, due to some idiotic women? Is every false accusation standing for feminism as a whole? Or has someone here defended those women who make false rape accusations? Or is feminism the cause for it? Is feminism actually one uniform borg like collective where all feminists share the exact same ideals, rhetoric and ideology?
     
  8. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    Feminists, PROMINENT ONES, have repeatedly ran interference for false rape accusers and whined that it shouldn't be illegal to make a false rape accusation. Other feminists have failed to detach themselves from this or disavow it or expunge the "bad" feminists for having such shitty views. Indeed, feminists are DEAD SILENT on a lot of things the "bad" feminists do or have done. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY MIND HAVING THEIR MOVEMENT LED BY HATEFUL DEMAGOGUES. HMM.

    Oh, and don't get me started on the fact that women have far stronger in-group preference than men, meaning THEY WILL CIRCLE THE WAGONS FOR A BAD FEMINIST SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE'S "ON THEIR SIDE". One thing I have learned about working with women is you NEVER EVER TRUST THEM TO NOT GO WITH IN-GROUP PREFERENCE. Better yet, don't fucking trust them at all. They have little compunction about lying, place little value on things like being honorable or being able to speak to one's own actions, spread blame like crazy, so on and so forth. There are now 2 women at work I have made the DIRE mistake of trusting with a temporary loan. Both have basically completely forgotten that they need to pay me the fuck back and don't really care to. When I brought it up to them they accused me of being mean and harassing them about it. DON'T. TRUST. WOMEN. EVER.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Can't I make the exact same argument about males and sexism regarding females?

    >>Males Feminists, PROMINENT ONES, have repeatedly ran interference for rapists accusers and whined that it shouldn't be illegal to make a false rape their spouse. Other males feminists have failed to detach themselves from this or disavow it or expunge the "bad" males feminists for having such shitty views. Indeed, males feminists are DEAD SILENT on a lot of things the "bad" males feminists do or have done. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY MIND HAVING THEIR GENDER MOVEMENT LED BY HATEFUL DEMAGOGUES. HMM.<<

    Let's go and grab some pussy now? Right? Naw. It's all locker room talk.

    Seriously though, you're raving and rampaging a lot against 'Feminism' right now. Can you define 'Feminism' for me? Would be nice to see if we're on the same page here.
     
  10. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    Feminism is an ideology that CLAIMS to be about equality but is in fact the politicization of the female ego and functions as an effective female-supremacy movement designed to harm men whenever and wherever possible. Feminists are not above trying to harm women who they think are getting in the way of them being able to harm men. Feminism actively tries to sabotage any conversation about men's issues whenever and wherever it can, and claims it has a solution for men's issues (that usually turns out to be "Just shut up and die" when you scratch the surface). Feminism actively campaigns to uphold special privileges for women whenever and wherever it can, claiming such things to be innate rights for women and women ONLY. Feminism agitates for the stripping of every right possible from men in order to ensure that women can destroy a man whenever they fucking feel like it.

    Rape is illegal, it is zealously prosecuted whenever sufficient evidence exists and even when it DOESN'T, and most rape is due to a small group of repeat offenders. So, your comparison falls flat on its fucking face.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  11. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    That's sad. She's lucky though, this Yezidi girl has met her former torturer and ISIS slaver looking for her right in Germany, which is much worse: https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2018/08/15/bdb9bb26bb1c1437.mp4
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You do understand that this doesn't apply to like 90% of feminists out there, right? That's like saying, all muslims are bloodthirsty killers! Look at ISIS! Or All black people are criminal thugs stealing cars! Look at community YXZ!

    Here is what feminism is according to some known definitions:

    Definition of feminism


    1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes


    2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

    feminism noun [ U ]
    uk /ˈfem.ɪ.nɪ.zəm/ us /ˈfem.ə.nɪ.zəm/


    the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state:
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/feminism


    Your whole argument is based on your perception of feminism and is completely ignoring the reality that feminism is an incredibly large movement with a hell of a lot of different ideologies inside it. The feminists you're talking about, are the absolute minority here. And there is absoltely zero reason for a feminist to disassociate oneself from the obvoiusly idiotic women out there, as there is no unifying feminist group, agenda or ideology outside of the definition I gave you.

    It would be like asking a catholic priest to explain himself for jehovas wittness, with the only argument based on the fact that they are all part of the 'christian' faith. Do you feel the urge to explain your self, everytime your nation does something you don't approve of? Or should everyone whos white explain himself for white school shooters? The mistake here is, that you're thinking about Feminism like the KKK. Everyone can call him self a feminist, male, female, religious or not etc. It's an umbrella everyone can use and there is no organisation or grandmaster on top of it telling their members in what direction they should march.

    What are you trying to tell me now?
     
  13. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    Oh wow. He actually pulled "MUH DICTIONARY DEFINITION!" on me. AMAZING.

    In practice feminism is a female-supremacy movement. The leaders of the movement agitate for it, they GET WHAT THEY WANT REPEATEDLY, and women just shrug and say "Well gosh I'm not a feminist don't look at me :^)" even as they CAST VOTES FOR FEMINIST CANDIDATES IN ELECTIONS AND ACTIVELY SUPPORT FEMINIST CAUSES. In-group preference wins EVERY. FUCKING. TIME. Women are feminists until PROVEN otherwise because it is something INNATE to the female ego. People think these "bad feminists" are some kind of abnormal. HARDLY. They're the result of the logical progression of the feminine psyche when women have figured out that they can get WHATEVER THEY WANT by screaming and pouting hard enough.

    Even if there are "good feminists" they're fucking WORTHLESS as they are unable or simply unwilling to counteract the negative actions of their "bad" sisters-in-arms. More than likely the "good" ones are happy that the "bad" ones are there - it lets them play Good Cop Bad Cop and advance female-supremacist agendas even further, by hook or by crook.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You're making less and less sense the more you post now and attack strawmen that you're creating on your own rather than actaully adressing the points I am making ...
     
  15. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    You made no points. You vomited a dictionary definition in my face and pouted "Not All Feminists!". Get fucked.
     
  16. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper لا المسوخ المسموح بها

    Nov 22, 2009
    Oh those horrible feminists. Who cares about drone bombings, use of torture, wars, famines, climate change, destruction of the nature, etc. when you have feminists to blame.
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You're right Pariah Dog, there was nothing else written after I posted the definitions. Hmm. No, wait there is a ton of other stuff I wrotte. Could it be that you missed it and comletely ignore the context of why I posted the definition?

    Change the wording a little and this could be coming from the mouth an ultra-agressive-PC-SJW-snowflake.

    White Males Women are sexist nazis feminists until PROVEN otherwise because it is something INNATE to the white male female ego

    Do you read your own stuff aloud sometimes? You should try it. Maybe you will realize how ridiculous it actually sounds.
     
  18. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    899
    Jun 28, 2018
    I'm holding them to their own book of rules. Only way they'll fucking learn.

    If I can be shamed and harassed based on my race and gender then they can get cut by that sword too, and damn well SHOULD be until they realize how foolish an idea it was to put that sword into play.

    The more women I make feel like absolute shit for this, the better. Maybe THAT will wake them the fuck up. And they SHOULD be made to feel like shit for it.
     
  19. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Explain why have you spend all day online instead of joining the protests against closed borders in Munich first, ask inane questions later!
     
  20. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I said it before, dictionary feminism is nice and all, but it's not how it works when applied in real life. At least not with the dictionary definition of "equality". Why care about the dictionary definition of "feminism" when said feminism disregards the dictionary definition of "sexism" and instead goes for some intersectionalist redefinition full of ill-defined weasel words?
    The problem, again, is not that feminism is bad per se. It is factually good. But feminism is fronted by a vocal minority that has a surprising amount of power, economically and politically. By ignoring that you legitimize them.
    And yes, they have power. Almost every HR department of every major company has a big influence on the company, and they are by nature full of gender studies graduates with a head full of mad and a fist full of vertebrae straight up indoctrination. The power is large. Politicians enforcing mandatory quotas for management positions out of ideological reasons, spreading the "21% pay gap!!" lie over and over again and basing their decisions on it. Seeing boys fail at school and suicide rates among men rise and do nothing but shrug because privilege and it's the girls' turn.
    Is that fighting for equality to you?
    The vast majority of men and women out there on the streets who still call themselves "feminist" are good people who really do just believe in equality. But so do most who don't call themselves "feminist", really. It's not a radical notion that men and women can do almost everything equally anymore. Radical is the notion that some are more equal than others, and like every group that thinks that some are more equal than others they have a nice theoretical groundwork made up to justify this.
    And again, they are those with the power, because the average jerkoff on the streets who just believes in equality legitimizes them by not saying anything.