TheGM
The voice of reason
Gee...I wonder who put that there.
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Political Spergatory or How I Learned To Love /pol
- Thread starter SquidWard
- Start date
Morgan_
Duckerz
Not sure I believe her.
This is like the marriage of clickbait and parody. Hindu symbol was a good troll though.
Could be interesting to see what comes of this.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/06/biden-new-deal-economic-infrastructure-plan-politics
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He should simply give it to the Pentagon and since he's the Commander in Chief (I know it's inaccurate) just order the troops to "build the infrastructure".
How can Republicans say no to the military?
How can Republicans say no to the military?
Morgan_
Duckerz
We could even entice them with increasing military funds too. Perfect plan.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
TBH, I am a bit disappointed that more conservatives didn't support the deal. Dems, and moderates at that, were the ones who made the compromises.
Minimum wage, for example, should be a state, not a federal issue. Even then, a fed increase of $10 would be more palatable. Border facilities are getting hammered as more and more migrants come seeing dems as soft on illegal crossings.
Gotta admit the dems stepped up this time, even if it seems like 3 steps forward and 2 back.
Minimum wage, for example, should be a state, not a federal issue. Even then, a fed increase of $10 would be more palatable. Border facilities are getting hammered as more and more migrants come seeing dems as soft on illegal crossings.
Gotta admit the dems stepped up this time, even if it seems like 3 steps forward and 2 back.
To be fair immigration happens either way who ever is in office and it won't really slow down unless the root cause is somehow solved.
Morgan_
Duckerz
Republicans were pioneers in bringing cheap immigrant labor to the US to pick fruit in southern states btw.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
CONTROLLED cheap labor btw. I don't mind work visas cause at least we have SOME documentation. We know they are here legally. What I speak of is literally sneaking in and getting amnesty.
One thing Trump did was stop the caravans. The remain in Mexico program discouraged thousands if not more from coming. It was not a free buffet and illegals knew it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...crossings-return-to-crisis-levels/ar-BB1dqEVS
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/biden-faces-pressure-us-sets-immigration-75905125
The Mexicans wouldn't spend resources to take care of them until Trump forced the issue. The Mexcian government has a history of treating illegals in their country harshly because they know that too many latinos entering the U.S. via Mexico draws negative attention. They know space is limited and would prefer that those amnestied be Mexican nationals.
https://www.bbvaresearch.com/en/publicaciones/mexico-dependence-on-remittances-will-reach-3-8-of-gdp-in-2020/#:~:text=Due to the increase in,more than 2019 (2.9%).
https://america.cgtn.com/2019/11/23/mexican-citizens-rely-on-us-remittances-for-economic-survival
So the dems are purposefully trying to have their cake and eat it too. They roll back measures intended as a forceful message to folks planning to cross. This encourages more to come, all the while knowing we do not have the capacity to take care of them.
Welkom Kultur vanished from Germany because Crnis video posted earlier, stated other countries would not take their share of immigrants. But that video still proves that every social system can collapse if illegal immigration remains unchecked.
TBH, these folks are only looking out for number 1 and I get that. But that also means we have to as well, and realise there needs to be more control. If we are to be fair about immigration, latinos should no longer benefit simply because they are closer to the U.S. Bringing back a quota system would alleviate a lot of these problems. If folks are going to come regardless, we do not need to encourage more by granting amnesty to new arrivals when we already have enough wanting amnesty IN the country.
One thing Trump did was stop the caravans. The remain in Mexico program discouraged thousands if not more from coming. It was not a free buffet and illegals knew it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...crossings-return-to-crisis-levels/ar-BB1dqEVS
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/biden-faces-pressure-us-sets-immigration-75905125
The Mexicans wouldn't spend resources to take care of them until Trump forced the issue. The Mexcian government has a history of treating illegals in their country harshly because they know that too many latinos entering the U.S. via Mexico draws negative attention. They know space is limited and would prefer that those amnestied be Mexican nationals.
https://www.bbvaresearch.com/en/publicaciones/mexico-dependence-on-remittances-will-reach-3-8-of-gdp-in-2020/#:~:text=Due to the increase in,more than 2019 (2.9%).
https://america.cgtn.com/2019/11/23/mexican-citizens-rely-on-us-remittances-for-economic-survival
So the dems are purposefully trying to have their cake and eat it too. They roll back measures intended as a forceful message to folks planning to cross. This encourages more to come, all the while knowing we do not have the capacity to take care of them.
Welkom Kultur vanished from Germany because Crnis video posted earlier, stated other countries would not take their share of immigrants. But that video still proves that every social system can collapse if illegal immigration remains unchecked.
TBH, these folks are only looking out for number 1 and I get that. But that also means we have to as well, and realise there needs to be more control. If we are to be fair about immigration, latinos should no longer benefit simply because they are closer to the U.S. Bringing back a quota system would alleviate a lot of these problems. If folks are going to come regardless, we do not need to encourage more by granting amnesty to new arrivals when we already have enough wanting amnesty IN the country.
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Morgan_
Duckerz
Not always, no. There used to be plenty of illegals brought in for agriculture work in Republican states and there still are.
Also, here is part of how the tables have turned since I was born:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-guns-immigration-20180226-story.html
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Nothing in that article says anything about encouraging illegal migration, only legal. Most likely through work visas and green cards. Bernie was the only one claiming it was open borders unless I missed something.
I am all for introducing new pathways to citizenship but that does not mean illegals get a free pass. If folks gotta wait in line in their HOME countries, why should it be different for those coming or already here?
That's such a complex topic (imigration, asylumseekers, refugees) that I am almost inclined not to touch on this subject. This is a field where people can actually go and conduct studies and visit law schools about the subject.
The main issue in my opinion is that people way to often just throw everything together while generalising way to much.
However those caravans have never been really much of an issue though for the nation as a whole and you can clearly see this by the fact that the republican party isn't talking anymore about it while refugees particularly from latin america are still coming into the border. I am not saying that it isn't creating problems and those have to be solved. Of course it is. But not on the "doomsday" scale as the republicans and conservatives always make out of it.
What disturbs me is how in the end it becomes a political football and not something that either party - but even much less repubs - have any need to solve. Like talking about due process but making it so chaotic and so complicated that many people are left with no other choice but to cross illegaly.
Morgan_
Duckerz
I know, I didn't post it for that. I just find it interesting how the rhetoric has changed as tactics to get elected have shifted with the times.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Crni
Those caravans aren't an issue because Trump put a stop to it. They aren't a problem because the Mexican government also viewed them as a threat in a ways.
The GOP is hammering Biden as we speak about his roll back of things like the MPP. It isn't a doomsday scenario because the GOP takes active measures to fight it, because Trump fought it (albeit for the wrong reasons).
It would have been a doomsday scenario for Germany had your country done nothing. But stopping welkom kultur stopped the flow and the pain. It could be argued it WAS a doomsday scenario for Merkel though. She and her party took a hell of a beating because of it.
Opening new processes is often difficult but I support Biden in that regard. New things take work and democracy often slows things down. But just because the wait sucks doesn't mean one can skip the line completely.
Morgan
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ack-down-on-legal-immigration-reveals/553631/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-coming-battle-over-legal-immigration/517518/
AFAIK, the GOP is still pro legal immigration with the exception of Trump (one of the many things I disagree with him). The issue has only recently changed BECAUSE of Trump. The issue here is the liberals and the left LOVE and I mean LOVE, to mix the two together.
I disagree with illegal immigration and all of a sudden, I hate legal immigration. All of a sudden, I am a racist.
Those caravans aren't an issue because Trump put a stop to it. They aren't a problem because the Mexican government also viewed them as a threat in a ways.
The GOP is hammering Biden as we speak about his roll back of things like the MPP. It isn't a doomsday scenario because the GOP takes active measures to fight it, because Trump fought it (albeit for the wrong reasons).
It would have been a doomsday scenario for Germany had your country done nothing. But stopping welkom kultur stopped the flow and the pain. It could be argued it WAS a doomsday scenario for Merkel though. She and her party took a hell of a beating because of it.
Opening new processes is often difficult but I support Biden in that regard. New things take work and democracy often slows things down. But just because the wait sucks doesn't mean one can skip the line completely.
Morgan
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ack-down-on-legal-immigration-reveals/553631/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-coming-battle-over-legal-immigration/517518/
AFAIK, the GOP is still pro legal immigration with the exception of Trump (one of the many things I disagree with him). The issue has only recently changed BECAUSE of Trump. The issue here is the liberals and the left LOVE and I mean LOVE, to mix the two together.
I disagree with illegal immigration and all of a sudden, I hate legal immigration. All of a sudden, I am a racist.
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How did he put a stop to it as long the source of the issue isn't adressed, because he was "though" on the border? It's just delaying the issue. The next Caravan will be coming. Just as how they did in the past.
Central American migrant caravans,[1] also known as the Viacrucis del Migrante ("Migrant's Way of the Cross"),[2][3][4] are migrant caravans that travel from Central America to the Mexico–United States border. The largest and best known of these were organized by Pueblo Sin Fronteras (Village Without Borders) that set off during Holy Week in early 2017 and 2018 from the Northern Triangle of Central America (NTCA), but such caravans of migrants began arriving several years earlier, and other unrelated caravans continued to arrive into late 2018.
(...)
The causes of the migration, as well as the proper way to settle or deport the migrants themselves, remains a source of political debate within the U.S.
You can get all the background informations here :
Central American migrant caravans,[1] also known as the Viacrucis del Migrante ("Migrant's Way of the Cross"),[2][3][4] are migrant caravans that travel from Central America to the Mexico–United States border. The largest and best known of these were organized by Pueblo Sin Fronteras (Village Without Borders) that set off during Holy Week in early 2017 and 2018 from the Northern Triangle of Central America (NTCA), but such caravans of migrants began arriving several years earlier, and other unrelated caravans continued to arrive into late 2018.
(...)
The causes of the migration, as well as the proper way to settle or deport the migrants themselves, remains a source of political debate within the U.S.
But we did something ... we opened the Border for aprox 800.000 people and made sure they are treated (for the most part) correctly.
You can get all the background informations here :
Morgan_
Duckerz
Honestly, I do not know enough about illegal immigration to have much of an opinion. By it's name I have a knee jerk reaction against it, but I have heard various arguments in favor of it as well so Ii really don't know.
Why would it be doomsday for us? Are there that many people? I've read that they pay more into our systems than they get out of them and that is the beggening and end of my knowledge on it.
Why would it be doomsday for us? Are there that many people? I've read that they pay more into our systems than they get out of them and that is the beggening and end of my knowledge on it.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Crni
Yes that is the video.
While it explains only ONE reason why welkom kultur didn't work (mostly because other EU countries outright refused or didn't take in their fair share of refugees), it agrees that Germanys social system HAS a breaking point. You let 800,000 in sure, but NO MORE.
And letting that 800,000 in harmed Merkel and her party so much they have yet to recover.
Morgan
Doomsday is a terrible word and I am sorry for using it. Nothing would be apocalyptic like a meteor hitting Earth.
But un controlled immigration has serious consequences. The more illegals we give a free pass to, the more come. This has been proven with the links above. Despite what Biden says, his action have only encouraged MORE people to come. This degrades rule of law and essentially states cheating is ok. Also, liberal bastions like Cali have already allowed illegals to receive more benefits, which is why the finances of liberal bastions like Cali are fucked
https://www.city-journal.org/california-record-breaking-deficit
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/10/7401...lth-benefits-to-adult-undocumented-immigrants
Second
The U.S. doesn't have infinite space. Currently, latinos and central american migrants have an advantage on crossing due to geography. Easier to get here from SA and CA via Mexico than let us say a migrant coming from Africa. If we were to just operate from a standpoint of amnesty for all illegals on moral grounds, latinos still have an ENORMOUS advantage and so is fundamentally unfair for illegals from other countries. The vast majority of illegals in the U.S. are latino, primarily Mexican.
Third
From links also provided previously, certain groups tend to advocate mostly for THEIR people, often vocally. This is not only racist but detrimental to the idea of integrating into the culture of being AMERICAN. As Morgan Freeman says, black history is AMERICAN history. But ID pols is strong now. Black and brown is virtually synonymous with the left but fuck all the other ethnicities just trying to integrate.
This is just a very basic outline of why the liberal lefts embracing of illegal immigration is so terrible for the country.
Yes that is the video.
While it explains only ONE reason why welkom kultur didn't work (mostly because other EU countries outright refused or didn't take in their fair share of refugees), it agrees that Germanys social system HAS a breaking point. You let 800,000 in sure, but NO MORE.
And letting that 800,000 in harmed Merkel and her party so much they have yet to recover.
Morgan
Doomsday is a terrible word and I am sorry for using it. Nothing would be apocalyptic like a meteor hitting Earth.
But un controlled immigration has serious consequences. The more illegals we give a free pass to, the more come. This has been proven with the links above. Despite what Biden says, his action have only encouraged MORE people to come. This degrades rule of law and essentially states cheating is ok. Also, liberal bastions like Cali have already allowed illegals to receive more benefits, which is why the finances of liberal bastions like Cali are fucked
https://www.city-journal.org/california-record-breaking-deficit
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/10/7401...lth-benefits-to-adult-undocumented-immigrants
Second
The U.S. doesn't have infinite space. Currently, latinos and central american migrants have an advantage on crossing due to geography. Easier to get here from SA and CA via Mexico than let us say a migrant coming from Africa. If we were to just operate from a standpoint of amnesty for all illegals on moral grounds, latinos still have an ENORMOUS advantage and so is fundamentally unfair for illegals from other countries. The vast majority of illegals in the U.S. are latino, primarily Mexican.
Third
From links also provided previously, certain groups tend to advocate mostly for THEIR people, often vocally. This is not only racist but detrimental to the idea of integrating into the culture of being AMERICAN. As Morgan Freeman says, black history is AMERICAN history. But ID pols is strong now. Black and brown is virtually synonymous with the left but fuck all the other ethnicities just trying to integrate.
This is just a very basic outline of why the liberal lefts embracing of illegal immigration is so terrible for the country.
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I am not sure if I can follow you. The fact that Germany can not take in 60 Million refugees (I think that's the number of current refugees world wide)? I mean, yeah every nation has their "breaking point" so to speak. I don't think that's either controversial or disputed.
The point is that a tough border policy what ever if justified or not isn't a solution as long as you don't adress the actuall source. Inequality, economic instability, military conflicts and so on. And Germany is also again a good example for this.
Even during a time when Germany was divided in to two blocks East and West Germany with an almost impenetrable wall guarded by people with rifles you had some that tried to escape. And now East Germany was not Syriah, or Honduras people there didn't starve to death or have been put in to Gulags constantly - it was a socialist dictatorship but it wasn't as restrictive like the Soviet Union. And yet a lot of people still felt so opressed they took the risk of being jailed or even outright shot at the border trying to escape to west Germany. And some who tried have been killed at the border. Here you can see it :
This was going on for decades.
You can not get tougher on people than "shooting" them on sight. And yet some will still try to overcome the obstacles. People will still try to escape their conditions. Migration legal or illegal will always be an issue even with a very tough border policy. Unless you find a way to kill them all. But I do not think that's what the US stands for.
The real problem with "tough" borders is what we've seen in 2015 when you had 800.000 people which tried to get in to the EU. Every nation - as explaind in the video above - simply waved them trough till Germany accepted them and said, alright we'll take care about it. If you just close the border the people sitting there will not return. They will simply, be there. But it is also true that always taking people in isn't a long term solution either and no one I know thinks that. It's just the humane decision in that situation.
As I said many times. If you really want to tackle immigration, legal or illegal, then you have to go to the source the reasons why people decide to leave their countries. Identify from where they are coming and look what you can do in those countries so the people actually stay there helping to improve conditions if possible.
Sorry but that's bullshit. I don't know who told you this or from where you got it. As someone who closely watches the big parties in Germany the CDU is still leading in every political poll. Most people believe the next government will be again formed by the CDU (Merkels Party) but possibly with a coalition with the Green party. It is possible but not likely that we could see a government either by the Greens or SPD (Social democrats) together with Die Linke (Social Democrats on steroids) often described as Red-Red-Green. But I wouldn't bet on it. Merkel will dissapear yes because she has no more amibitions here. But that's a whole thing for it self.
Merkel if anything has gained in general popularity and respect for their handling of the refugees and there is no political fallout from it. Hey I oppose her and even I have to admit this was good for her politically. You can see that it's not really an issue because no one is reporting about it anymore. Which has also a lot to do with the Corona Virus. The extreme right wing always and consantly used to make this a talking point and that did a bit of damage here and there but not enough to really change anything for the conservative party (CDU) as a whole. It's even really funny in many polls even if the conservatives took a hit ... the majority still saw Merkel as a good chancellor.
Here is the real thing though. All major parties in Germany have been in a decline when it comes to votes since 2010. The migrant/refugee crisis or what ever you want to call it is way overhyped when it comes to political matters. Germany always had a sort of extreme "right wing". And since the AfD formed as a new party in around 2013 and becoming a member of your parliament you can now even put more or less a number on it when it comes to votes but they are also on a steady decline. Those aprox 10% will not vote for one of the big parties anyway.
So yeah. A lot of people have been kinda fucked up with how politics has gone in Germany for a really long time. Had nothing to do with the refugees from 2015.
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DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Crni
That ia my point. Germany cannot handle unlimited refugees/illegals/whatever. The same with America. All I hear from the left is amnesty amnesty more amnesty. If they show up, let them in, it is the humane thing to do. How is this not a smaller version of open borders?.
Mexico is second only to Brazil in economy and how long has it been filled with corruption and violence? Brazil? Guatemala? Whether leftist or right (mostly left until recently), these countries have yet to get to the point of safety equal to that of the west or even Russia or China. Will they ever? I honestly do not know. All governments have corruption but some really take the cake. That is why these countries rely on remittances from folks in the U.S. These folks will NEVER stop coming. That is the point.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/german-chancellor-angel-merkel-will-not-run-again-leader-n925521
Or
https://www.dw.com/en/thuringia-afd-fallout-how-weak-is-germanys-cdu/a-52403964
A lot of news is from 2018 and it sounds like the CDU was never weak enough to require any kind of coalition before. Also, news from 2018 all points to Merkels decision not to run for chancellor in 2021 because of her performance during the migrant crisis or internal opposition from the CDU.
Granted your a German, maybe you could shed more light?
That ia my point. Germany cannot handle unlimited refugees/illegals/whatever. The same with America. All I hear from the left is amnesty amnesty more amnesty. If they show up, let them in, it is the humane thing to do. How is this not a smaller version of open borders?.
Mexico is second only to Brazil in economy and how long has it been filled with corruption and violence? Brazil? Guatemala? Whether leftist or right (mostly left until recently), these countries have yet to get to the point of safety equal to that of the west or even Russia or China. Will they ever? I honestly do not know. All governments have corruption but some really take the cake. That is why these countries rely on remittances from folks in the U.S. These folks will NEVER stop coming. That is the point.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/german-chancellor-angel-merkel-will-not-run-again-leader-n925521
Or
https://www.dw.com/en/thuringia-afd-fallout-how-weak-is-germanys-cdu/a-52403964
A lot of news is from 2018 and it sounds like the CDU was never weak enough to require any kind of coalition before. Also, news from 2018 all points to Merkels decision not to run for chancellor in 2021 because of her performance during the migrant crisis or internal opposition from the CDU.
Granted your a German, maybe you could shed more light?
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Morgan_
Duckerz
@DarkCorp I will have to read up on those links.
Something I've been meaning to ask you though is all this news about Asian Americans being attacked or discriminated against here lately. Is this something you worry about or happens around you now? I'm with someone that's half Thai and he's not worried about it as it seems to just be random attacks and will either stay that way or dissipate over time as new issues come up. That's what we think at the momenet at least.
What I'm refering to:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/20/anti-asian-violence-us-bigotry
Something I've been meaning to ask you though is all this news about Asian Americans being attacked or discriminated against here lately. Is this something you worry about or happens around you now? I'm with someone that's half Thai and he's not worried about it as it seems to just be random attacks and will either stay that way or dissipate over time as new issues come up. That's what we think at the momenet at least.
What I'm refering to:
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
LMAO Snopes.