Question to all vegetarians/vegans out there...

Well, they also see it as being cruel to animals, the handling of the meat is unhygienic, stuff like that. I don't know, there was disgust in their faces while someone talked about eating a hamburger or steak, but I believe I do recall someone saying they dislike the actual taste of meat.
 
Yeah, I think that would describe the person I know.

For example, when we go to a restaurant and they have a Portobello Burger or something. Her thinking is: I like mushrooms already. I don't like meat. So what sense is there in manipulating a mushroom (which I already like) to mimic a food that I abhor?
Not only that, but it's almost an admission to her that meat eating is superior to vegetarianism. As if there is something inherently wrong with being a vegetarian that you need to fool yourself into conforming to what everybody else's norm is e.g. Veggie "Burgers", Tofu "Steaks" etc.
Why can't you just enjoy tofu? Why does it have to be called a tofu steak?

I'll eat steak or tofu, but don't you dare slap a slab of bean curd in front of me and try to tell me it's a medium-rare Porterhouse.


I don't know, this has the makings of a George Carlin bit somewhere.

Of course this doesn't make sense for people that avoid meat due to ethical, humane or hygienic reasons.
I think the larger point here is that people chose to be vegetarian (and the degree to which they pursue it) for many different reasons. There's not some monolithic, lockstep agenda that all non-meat eaters follow.
 
nemo00 said:
but no matter how much beans (spinach), soy) you eat you just can't get enough iron out of it.

Yes, you can. There is a protein that transports metal ions, for example iron not bound to a heme group, into the cells in the gut.

nemo00 said:
My wife was a vegetarian for 4 years .....she is still recovering from different mineral deficiencies so i know on first hand what vegetarianism does to people.

Yay, anecdotal evidence on the internet! There are foods that inhibit inorganic iron uptake in the intestines, maybe your wife drinks too much tea.

nemo00 said:
al those E's .....and in the long run it will cause some kind of thingy (cancer) that does kill you

So you don't really know.
 
Vegetarians does not have deficiencies at all, they eat eggs and milk which contain almost everything a human needs. (Because it's designed to give calves/chickens everything they need). Vegans might suffer from deficiencies if they do not watch what they eat, but it is possible to live.
 
Saying meat is "disgusting" as a reason for being vegetarian is quite vague and odd.
The main reasons I heard for being vegetarian are :
- empathy for animals (you don't want to be responsible for an animal suffering/dying)
- sanitary concern (eating meat is *said* to be unhealthy)
- ecological concern

Whether you agree with these reasons is another topic (I don't, the only concern I have is with mass-production and mass-consumption of meat), but fact is they are totally compatible with eating "fake meat"... Because whatever concerns you have with (over)consumption of meat, it tastes good.

Yet if you live in the United States vegetarianism has at least the merit to point out a totally fucked up food industry and diet habits :
http://www.good.is/post/why-does-a-salad-cost-more-than-a-big-mac/?
 
I don't really know what the thread starter means when he refers to products that imitate meat since there are so few of even somewhat imitating alternatives available here in Finland.

Steak, just like sausages, nowadays refer more to the form factor of food than the material it's made of - at least to me. Steak is somewhat flat piece of something rather solid mass. Sausages are stuff that is stuffed inside a piece of edible tube usually made of some kind organic material. There are many types of meat based steaks and sausages contain many other ingredients than just meat. These types of products are already just stuff molded into a specific form factor. Sure, the most typical meaning implies that there is meat involved.
Take meatballs… err, what do you call meatless meatballs in the U.S.? Just balls? Sorry, my english escapes me - not my native language. In Finland we use the term "pyörykkä" which is pretty much "a ball" with a twist, one can add any appropriate term before it to form more informative meaning (like "liha" -meat or "kasvis" -vegetable). This too is just a general term.

Oh, and most of the soybeans are grown for animals. The avegare amount of plant based feed needed to produce one kilogram of meat escapes me, but I assure you it's nowhere near 1:1 ration. Most of the land used for growing crops is there to feed livestock.
I stopped eating meat nearly 15 years ago, and my health is just fine. My hemoglobin count is much higher than my wifes how is an omnivore, and I never have had any deficiencies what so ever. Anyone, regardless of diet can suffer from deficiencies if they don't watch what they're eating. It's just that one can go years or tens of years with certain deficiencies before the serious effects start to show, i.e.. osteoporosis.
Human is an omnivore by nature, but the amount of meat consumed these days far exceeds the amount our dietary system can handle, just look at the mass dwelling in the streets outside - that is pretty far from our ancestors just a few thousand years ago. People are fat, slow, apathetic and using all kinds of drugs just to cope with their everyday life. Evolution doesn't work fast enough to keep up with our gluttonous lifestyle. Of course it's just not the meat, but it plays a part in all this.

I can't say that I personally find meat itself disgusting, after all we're all pretty much made of it. It's the fact that you end some other beings life for your own pleasures that makes eating meat unethical in my opinion. Even more to the point are animals which are bred just to be killed, how fucked up is that? When I look at an animal of any kind, I see a being with their own desires, needs, fears and joys, even purpose - something that isn't mine to take away from them. And it's so easy not to, so why not.
 
Moloch Horridus said:
When I look at an animal of any kind, I see a being with their own desires, needs, fears and joys, even purpose - something that isn't mine to take away from them. And it's so easy not to, so why not.
Bacon wrapped scallops, that's why.

But seriously, if I don't kill that scallop then some other creature higher up on the food chain will, no? It's not like the scallop is assured of a long, healthy life of pursuing whatever it is scallops do just because I stop eating them. Do scallops really feel more pain than asparagus when they are culled?
 
When my ape like ancestors climbed to the top of the food chain by killing all predators with clubs and pointy sticks they passed on to us the right to eat what ever the hell we want.

Animals eat Animals, we just happen to have pants on when doing it. So take your veganism to the Wolfs and Sharks and see what they have to say! I on the other hand will be enjoying my aborted chickens and Pig belly.

Also......Plants are alive to you hypocrites.
 
Dragula said:
Cool, you just admitted having the intelligence of a shark, or ape.
Yes the Ape Called MAN!

The Ape that put other Apes in Space and on the moon and yet found time to put cheese into a sausage.

Vegans should be happy they have the luxury to think about the feeling of their food. But do you ever think about the brocoli? What about a potato? Very biased in you hunger considerations are we?

I'm also sure those pigs would tear you apart if you fell over in their pen. They are some mean son of bitches and will do that It would also make a awesome headline.

"Meat eats Vegan"
 
Vegans should be happy they have the luxury to think about the feeling of their food. But do you ever think about the brocoli? What about a potato? Very biased in you hunger considerations are we?

Vegans can be vegans nowadays thank's to the meat industry. Modern society is possible because we started eating meat, without it we wouldn't have had the power to rise above all other creatures or drive the technological advance.
I'm also sure those pigs would tear you apart if you fell over in their pen. They are some mean son of bitches and will do that It would also make a awesome headline.

I disagree here, i grew up with my grandparents in the countryside and we had pigs. They are really intelligent and peacefull creatures if left alone - those pigs were like living in a big yard.

I would like to ge a pig as a pet one day, cause they are so intelligent and nice. But i wouldn't stop eating other pigs...
Heck, back then i would witness the slaughtering of the pig, which was done with the help of two people, one to hold the pig and the other to slit its throat with a kitchen knife...

I can understand vegans that don't eat meat because they don't like it or because they think it's not healthy, but i hate it when they blame me, the meat eater, for the suffering of animals.

What would happen to all the animals that now live in captivity if we stopped eating meat? Do you think they'll go around in the forest and hold hands with the wolf? I agree that their suffering should be kept at a minimum, but let's not forget that animal's rights and all those things are here to make their supporters feel better about themselves. People into animal rights are in it for their ego and to feel better about themselves, animals can't have rights...
 
Dragula said:
Cool, you just admitted having the intelligence of a shark, or ape.

Sharks are natural born killers - i suppose you could perform a lobotomy on a shark and it would still be good at it.
 
Blakut said:
I disagree here, i grew up with my grandparents in the countryside and we had pigs. They are really intelligent and peacefull creatures if left alone - those pigs were like living in a big yard.

I disagree with your disagreement. My cousin the Pig Farmer put it bluntly.

"Don't fall down near them, They WILL FUCKING KILL YOU"

Sure he had some big ass monster pigs....But he isn't the only one to tell me that.
 
Blakut said:
Vegans can be vegans nowadays thank's to the meat industry. Modern society is possible because we started eating meat, without it we wouldn't have had the power to rise above all other creatures or drive the technological advance.


What a weird statement. While possibly true, it's like saying we should ride in carriages because without the wheel, we wouldn't have the car. You're basically saying we have to eat the animals as thanks for their meat making us intelligent and advanced.


TheGM said:
"Don't fall down near them, They WILL FUCKING KILL YOU"

Have you ever wondered why?
 
victor said:
Blakut said:
Vegans can be vegans nowadays thank's to the meat industry. Modern society is possible because we started eating meat, without it we wouldn't have had the power to rise above all other creatures or drive the technological advance.


What a weird statement. While possibly true, it's like saying we should ride in carriages because without the wheel, we wouldn't have the car. You're basically saying we have to eat the animals as thanks for their meat making us intelligent and advanced.


TheGM said:
"Don't fall down near them, They WILL FUCKING KILL YOU"

Have you ever wondered why?

Ah so what you are saying is that we did the necessary to survive but thats past us now and we should move on to a better diet containing less meat?
 
I'm saying we have the option. There's little reason in modern Western society to eat meat.
 
Aye, what victor said here.

What's more, there were far fewer people in the times when we evolved, so sustaining on a meat centered diet was much easier.

To give you context on the trouble with our heavy emphasis on meat:

A 400-page United Nations report from the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) states that cattle farming is "responsible for 18% of greenhouse gases".

http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html

Grazing by cattle at low intensities can create a favourable environment for native herbs and forbs; however, in most world regions cattle are reducing biodiversity due to overgrazing driven by food demands by an expanding human population.

Ranching, the report adds, is "the major driver of deforestation" worldwide, and overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert.Cows also soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres of water to produce one litre of milk.

Blakut said:
Vegans can be vegans nowadays thank's to the meat industry. Modern society is possible because we started eating meat, without it we wouldn't have had the power to rise above all other creatures or drive the technological advance.

And just to go further with this, the types of meat eaten have changed a bit over time. Cattle, one of the most devastating animals to the environment, really only has been consumed for the last 100 years.
 
"Don't fall down near them, They WILL FUCKING KILL YOU"

Only if they are hungry or stressed from living in cramped quarters. I only had one or two pigs in the countryside, and they had a big yard to walk through.
 
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