Racism: Why?

[Dove]

Hey look at me, posting on a topic that obviously I belong in. For me I didn't dress "fancy" as I like to call it, because of teasing. It was because I was completely unnoticeable.

The teasing started after I started dressing this way. Then more after I got into witchcraft (trying to scare away the teasers and bullies).

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

(feminine combats),

is there such a thing?


goth at 12? jesus, thats pretty young to even know what the hell your wearing.... i'm pretty sure my mom dressed me untill I turned 13.

 

[Katja]

el_Prez]

(feminine combats),

is there such a thing?

Well obviously they weren't *real* combat boots. But yes - they had a platform heel to them and they actually curved the foot so it looked feminine. And they were comfortable as hell (a requirement for all my shoes).
I wore them with shorts, skirts and black sundresses (yes, that's possible too) and it didn't look bad! They eventually wore out after a few years, haven't been able to find any like that since.

goth at 12? jesus, thats pretty young to even know what the hell your wearing.... i'm pretty sure my mom dressed me untill I turned 13.

My mother didn't mind - she knew what I was going through and it's not like I was going to lose any friends. Actually I met more people that year outside of school than I met inside of school. And subsequently started socializing with older people.

Although mom generally allowed me to explore styles, I was never allowed facial piercings. I had my ears pierced several times and a navel piercing (which I took out about 3 years back). My mother actually PAID for a tattoo at 16 on the condition that I would never get a piercing on my face (or tongue).

...I still want a lip piercing or labret. Too shy though.

 

[Elissar]

...I still want a lip piercing or labret. Too shy though.

Why in the world would you want a lab-rat?

Or more specifically, what is it?

 

[megatron]

It's a piercing through your lip. You can get vertical which is in the centre into your mouth or horizontal which is through the lip. I think?

What's your tatoo of Katja?

I'm not too bothered about racism. It get's too much publicity though, ends up getting blown out of proportion. Too many double-standards as well.

 

[Liquid]

I think racism is a way of thinking and that it's a sort of a balance. Don't ever get the impression that I support racism. Ever.
I just think that racism is such a widespread thing that people are even paranoid of being called racist and hence racism can't be destroyed.

P.S. How many US movies have seen in the past 5 years WITHOUT black people. Name just one.

 

[megatron]

the man who wasn't there

 

[Katja]

It's a piercing through your lip. You can get vertical which is in the centre into your mouth or horizontal which is through the lip. I think?

It's that piercing just above your chin but below the lip. Unfortunately, Miss Aguilera has popularized it. I've wanted the damn piercing since I was 13.

What's your tatoo of Katja?

A blue lily.

I'm not too bothered about racism. It get's too much publicity though, ends up getting blown out of proportion. Too many double-standards as well.

But racism IS a big deal - who wants to be judged simply by the color of their skin? It's all blind stereotyping. There are a few bad apples in every race, and it's a shame that some people judge an entire race based on those few.

I think racism is a way of thinking and that it's a sort of a balance. Don't ever get the impression that I support racism. Ever.

How is inequality a balance?

I just think that racism is such a widespread thing that people are even paranoid of being called racist and hence racism can't be destroyed.

If people were *that* paranoid about being called racist, no one would be publically racist. Eventually, public racism would probably disappear because racist people would think they're alone in the subject. But so many people are still adament on the subject.

I live in a very multicultural community - and when there is a hate crime towards one race, the victim's race will often retaliate. It can't be destroyed because hatred breeds hatred. It's a vicious cycle, and "American History X" is a good example of this.

P.S. How many US movies have seen in the past 5 years WITHOUT black people. Name just one.

Why would you want a movie without black people? Movies are supposed to be a representation of real life, and black people are part of the USA. It would be unrealistic not to include people of different races and cultures.

 

[Ugly John]

Yes there are racists, but there are way more so called victims of racism.

Oh! you didn't hire me because i'm black, oh you're firing me because i'm chineese, you're just a racist!

I would kick these people asses, but then it would probably be because i'm a racist, and not because they are stupid or lazy. I don't get that sort of crap from white people.
So i have not alot of sympathy for those who claim to be victims of racism when they get fired (i don't generalize).

Fat kids do get alot of hazing, i'm ashamed of that but i did my fair share.
I was a nerd and i got picked on alot, but then i grew alot over a summer, and i was bigger than these bullies, so they left me alone, now i was an outcast, Bigger (taller and more muscular) than the bullies and the nerds, smarter than the jocks and the nerds, i did not fit anyplace else... so i took on picking on fat kids. I'm not proud of it, but heck it was a mistake and i know it was.

 

[OnTheBounce]

Why would you want a movie without black people? Movies are supposed to be a representation of real life, and black people are part of the USA. It would be unrealistic not to include people of different races and cultures.

Sorry Katja, but I have to disagree here. There are plenty of movies that could be made that would be homogenous racially. It comes down to period and milieu. Simply working people of different races in on some sort of ethnic/racial quota system would seem to wrong.

For example, how many black people were in Saving Private Ryan? Zero, and that's the way it should be, considering that it's set in WWII and deals w/a Ranger company. The Army was segregated at that point, and wasn't desegregated until 1947. To have blacks in the mix would be an anachronism and a misrepresentation. There were no Japanese-Americans, either, and also the way it should be, since there were only two units in the US Army at that time which were made up of "Ni-Sei" (second generation) Japanese-Americans, and they served in the Italian theatre (while their relatives sat at home and stewed in concentration camps).

The unfortunate thing in the case of SPR was that I saw many comments on the all-white cast, and some people put it up to racism rather than delving into the history why that was the case.

I also have to disagree w/the idea that "movies are supposed to be a representation of real life". They are an expression of dramatic art, which is something humans have come up with to help them deal with life, not to represent it. The idea of naturalism first really gained steam in the '60s, and was the subject of parody by many including Andy Warhol. One of his best indictments of it was to set a camera up in a bathroom by a sink. The camera rolled for six hours, and the viewer is treated to the naturalistic treatment of people shaving, washing their hands, and a couple of cockroaches scuttling out of the drain. Dramatic value: zero.

This isn't to say that blacks should be denied roles in films, simply that we ought to avoid a quota system in the arts. I don't think a film full of black faces is any less viable than one devoid of them.

Cheers,

OTB

 

[megatron]

Yeah, I don't think black people are needed in movies just because they're black. Same with white people or any 'people'. A movie should be entertaining. If it entertains by being a mostly black cast with few white actors, it still entertains. If it entertains by being mostly a white cast with few asian actors, it still entertains.

Even if the colour of someones skin is a plot-point or metaphor for something, fair enough (the matrix). Whatever happens on film should be just that. If it could bring up discussions or thoughts, good for the movie. So long as no-one is forced to do something against whatever they set out to do in the first place (make movies/money) by people whining because they're too stupid/racist.


Race should just be something to use as description, nothing else should matter. Sure, your cultural background may be different. But every single person has a different background, that's what makes us people mabye?

I suppose I said 'Racism doesn't matter to me' because it doesn't? I don't make judgements on people and I expect they could do the same. If they're close-minded enough to make snap judgements before even talking to me, they're usually not worth the effort. But outside my weird little self-centred world where people suffer from 'hate-crimes'...perhaps they should just calm down? There's always the option of walking away or complaining. If that doesn't work, fight back. There's always going to be some stupid asshole anyway, the colour of your skin just gives it an excuse. Or something?

Black Debbie?

 

[Katja]

Sorry Katja, but I have to disagree here. There are plenty of movies that could be made that would be homogenous racially. It comes down to period and milieu. Simply working people of different races in on some sort of ethnic/racial quota system would seem to wrong.

Okay yes, I agree. If it is out of context, then there are obvious problems with that and I completely understand your point here. I didn't think of the movies that took place in the past, I'm not much of a war/history movie fan. There are a number of movies that are coming to me now that had out-of-context black people. But eh, I don't seem to notice these things.
I don't know much about the black population in the USA though - perhaps it's not as big as I'm thinking. There are ot as many here - we have mostly Asians and East Indians in my community.

I also have to disagree w/the idea that "movies are supposed to be a representation of real life". They are an expression of dramatic art, which is something humans have come up with to help them deal with life, not to represent it.

And my boyfriend would absolutely flip if he heard me say that, he works in film. But what I meant were the ones that *take place* in the present USA - a lot of the mainstream movies are not necessarily meant to be "artsy". Or if it wouldn't be out of context to include different races, I think it's fine to have black people in there.

This isn't to say that blacks should be denied roles in films, simply that we ought to avoid a quota system in the arts. I don't think a film full of black faces is any less viable than one devoid of them.

Exactly. But I guess people shouldn't even focus on race in the first place - unless a movie is in a specific context where accuracy needs to be considered.

I honestly don't notice different races any more - it's just the way of life in my area.

 

[John Uskglass]

I also have to disagree w/the idea that "movies are supposed to be a representation of real life". They are an expression of dramatic art, which is something humans have come up with to help them deal with life, not to represent it

http://www.criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=73

Actually a great movie.

 

[OnTheBounce]

...I'm not much of a war/history movie fan.

Neither am I, actually. Precisely because it's a bastard medium that tries to do two things, and tends to do neither very well.

If I like a period piece, it's because of what was done w/language, cinematography, etc. The Lion in Winter is a great example, which I love because of what Hepburn, Hopkins (in his first film role) and O'Toole were able to do w/it, not because it's set in the 12th Century. ("If you're a prince, there's hope for every ape in Africa.")

There are a number of movies that are coming to me now that had out-of-context black people. But eh, I don't seem to notice these things.
I don't know much about the black population in the USA though - perhaps it's not as big as I'm thinking. There are ot as many here - we have mostly Asians and East Indians in my community.

...But what I meant were the ones that *take place* in the present USA - a lot of the mainstream movies are not necessarily meant to be "artsy". Or if it wouldn't be out of context to include different races, I think it's fine to have black people in there.

I'm not sure why you're differentiating between art films and mainstream in respect to drama. Even the worst action movie still has a climax, denouement, etc., etc. The difference in art films and mainstream films would be largely whether it was made for mass appeal or "smaller demographics". (Or, I suppose you could say that it would depend on whether the film was made w/financial or intellectual stimulation in mind.)

But I guess people shouldn't even focus on race in the first place - unless a movie is in a specific context where accuracy needs to be considered.

I whole-heartedly agree that people shouldn't focus on race. In films where it's not essential to the plot or milieu it shouldn't even be a factor. However, in the US of late it's gotten to the point were the cast is put together and studios often deliberately make characters of a certain race, sexual orientation, etc. That's just keeping the fires stoked, if you ask me.

The day racism disappears won't be the day that blacks have an equal shot at a job. The day that misogyny ends won't be the day that a woman get paid as much as men. It will be the day that these issues become non-issues.

Constipated: I hate you for rubbing my nose in the fact that my Criterion Collection is still oh so far from complete.

I'll be sure to check out Cleo from 5 to 7. However, I still maintain that while Cinema Verite definitely had its place (and perhaps still does) in film history, I still maintain that unless you're making a documentary fact has to take a back seat to drama. Also, I think a lot of people think this type of entertainment somehow allows them to experience things outside of their ken. I say it does not. Watching a movie about something may be thought provoking, but it is not the same as experiencing it. (This goes doubly for war films, largely due to the lack of danger involved, not to mention the absence of smell.)

Cheers,

OTB

 

[tard]

All those non-racist persons think they look smart when they have "learned" something from TV, if I could control media all those peasants would think my toe is god if I just wanted so.

Funny thing is that they say there aren't races so how hell can be racist then? Other thing is the they use argument gene difference is only 1% between in humans so should we free apes from zoo and give them human rights since gene difference is only 2%?

Dog breeders have know thousand's of years that specs heritage and off course that wont effect humans because humans is different but how? I know this one!!! TV said it just cant!!

 

[John Uskglass]

OTB, where are you from again? Been along time sense the days before the Progroms at DaC.......Germany me thinks?

You should post on the "dvds" we own topic. Sure everyone will be impressed. Frankly, I never aspire to own everything in the Criterion......just everything in Russian, Greek or German.

 

[Sander]

Tard. YOu're a moron. And probably a joke poster, but I'll reply anyway.

They don't say there aren't races, they say that those races don't matter one bit. Noone can deny the fact that there are people with different skin color, they just say that it doesn't matter one bit, and they are right.

And yes, perhaps we SHOULD free apes from the zoo, because they are living beings as well. They have the same rights as people. With one little difference. They can't utilize them to the extent humans can, because their brains haven't been fully developed.
YOu need to take another class of biology. It's all about species. APes are of a different species, other human beings aren't. There. Done?
And, in case you didn't know, what constitutes different species is if you cannot reproduce with the other form of life and get a child which can also reproduce. Since we can't reproduce with apes, we're not of the same species.

And the dog bit is just stupid, tard. YOu do realise that not everyone can reach the same strength, agility, land speed or whatever when it comes to inheritance. This is just a simple fact. But that still doesn't mean that skin color matters. Tard.

 

[OnTheBounce]

OTB, where are you from again? Been along time sense the days before the Progroms at DaC.......Germany me thinks?

Close. I'm a US/German half-breed. Too much of one to be the other.

You should post on the "dvds" we own topic. Sure everyone will be impressed.

I hope people wouldn' t be impressed by what shiney baubles I've amassed. (You're probably right, though, which is why my work is far from done. )

Frankly, I never aspire to own everything in the Criterion......just everything in Russian, Greek or German.

Oh, I don't aspire to own everything Crit. Coll. has put out, either. The Rock comes to mind as something to avoid.

Speaking of German movies and Crit. Coll., I'm glad to see that they're putting out RW Fassbinder's stuff now. It looks like your list of "must own" Crit. DVDs may be getting a bit longer in the near future.

(I guess I should dig up the DVD thread to continue this conversaton rather derailing a relevant conversation.)

Cheers,

OTB

 

[John Uskglass]

Do you live in the US?

Yes, looks like it might, right when I was in the middle of finishing off Herzog!. And damnit, they still need more Tarkovsky.

 

[tard]

Tard. YOu're a moron. And probably a joke poster, but I'll reply anyway.

They don't say there aren't races, they say that those races don't matter one bit. Noone can deny the fact that there are people with different skin color, they just say that it doesn't matter one bit, and they are right.

And yes, perhaps we SHOULD free apes from the zoo, because they are living beings as well. They have the same rights as people. With one little difference. They can't utilize them to the extent humans can, because their brains haven't been fully developed.
YOu need to take another class of biology. It's all about species. APes are of a different species, other human beings aren't. There. Done?
And, in case you didn't know, what constitutes different species is if you cannot reproduce with the other form of life and get a child which can also reproduce. Since we can't reproduce with apes, we're not of the same species.

And the dog bit is just stupid, tard. YOu do realise that not everyone can reach the same strength, agility, land speed or whatever when it comes to inheritance. This is just a simple fact. But that still doesn't mean that skin color matters. Tard.

You are typical multiculture religious fanatic wacko who will suck dick if it is said on tv. You belong to peasent class you will worship niggers or put jews in oven if it is said so and you will do it with smile on your face peasent. Dont think everyone belongs in peasent class becouse i will genocide when someone will try enslave me and i will do it smile on my face.

500 years ago you would have burn heretics alive, peasant.