naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Are you sure it is running and not walking really fast ? I don't think any super-mutant has running animations in Fo1-Fo2-Fo3-FoNV.
Redeeming qualities of the Enclave?
- Thread starter Mutant Screg
- Start date
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Yeah about that...life wasn't exactly great in Pre-War America in the decades leading up to 2077, in fact you could argue it was worse than the world after the bombs fell.
He can run (even if you want to argue it's more of a quick march or jog). Besides, him wearing a leg brace doesn't necessarily mean it's due to age. People can suffer injuries when young and that injury will leave an effect for the rest of their lives. Someone in my family broke their ankle and they aren't old but it's never been the same since it happened.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
CourierFour
First time out of the vault
Speaking of mutants and trying to stay OT: Wasn't Frank Horrigan a Super Mutant, essentially?
Can't say he redeems the Enclave but i thought he was pretty badass.
Can't say he redeems the Enclave but i thought he was pretty badass.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
I don't really like his FO:NV look, too 'young'.
By NV he should look even more aged and weird.
Obsidian had too little time to make mutants as nasty as they looked in FO2... ;(
In NV Marcus doesn't have a leg brace anymore.
If Super Mutants cells regenerate, super mutants do not get physical effects of aging.
And yes, Super mutants in FO3 and FNV run.
They did make the Super Mutants the way they wanted to I would say, the models are all different from the Fallout 3 models and FNV has many unique Super mutants that look different from any other SM in both games.
Obsidian made a lot of new models and textures for FNV, even the metal barrel piles have a different texture between both games for example, so do the robots, trucks, etc.
I am sure Obsidian prioritized making the things look the way they wanted to because it seems like they worked on it a lot.
YeeCop
Just a Sweet Irradiated Transvestite
I'd like to think of the decades leading up to the Great War as the atmosphere of the Cold War. People were constantly worried about the Reds invading/nuking and built personal fallout shelters; yet were able to live happy, productive lives.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Just a point here, but Vree's autopsy seems to strongly suggest that the Supermutant she had autopsied wasn't a pure Supermutant, and was most likely made from a Wastelander. She implied that some of the mutation is either due to biochemical agents or rads from before the war, and that they show a 30% decrease in intelligence
Similarly, Tabitha implies that all of the "Dumb Dumbs" were created outside of the Masters control, despite Harry in Fallout 1 being proof of otherwise.
Could it be possible that Supermutants made from Vault Dwellers could potentially live for hundreds of years, whereas the ones made from mutated wastelanders generally only get a 10% increase in lifespan?
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Neil (appear in Black Montain) is a first gen mutant, a "dumb dumb".
Why he's not stupid?
Why he's not stupid?
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
NV-Marcus frankly isn't anywhere close to Marcus in FO2.
Why would Marcus look LESS mutant in NV? He was made prior to 1, and thus should look the same in 2 and NV.
Mutants don't magically heal all ailments, and Marcus obviously had some cellular flaws in the form of tumours.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Tabitha is stated as insane, delisional and power hungry. Don't take her rambling as a replacement of Fo1-Fo2-FoT canon.
FEV does heal health ailments (although there is no information about it I still think it would not regrow lost limbs though, but since it alters the muscle tissue, perfects all the healthy cells, repairs the unhealthy ones and changes the bones, it could be possible that it would regrow limbs if we stretch it, but I still think it wouldn't), that was why it was created. It evolves the cells to become perfect and immune to all diseases and rads (it was created to be a cure for the strange plague).
He seems to have lipomas, which are just healthy fat cells, it is not a hazard and occurs naturally, it is not dangerous or damaging and I doubt the FEV would remove those, in fact it would probably convert those cells into "perfect" fat cells and that is it.
I assume that they finally got the technology to create Marcus as they saw fit? There was nothing stopping them from remaking Marcus exactly as it was before. Hell, they even went to the effort of putting the moles in Marcus face in pretty much the same place as in Fallout 2.
So if they even went for details like the moles (and the armor and headgear are also the same) what was preventing them from making Marcus look exactly like he did before? They could if they wanted to but, since they didn't I am from the opinion that this is how Marcus is supposed to look like now.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Orrrrrrrrrrrrr more likely, they didn't want to spend too much time recreating an old character when Bethesda was breathing down their neck, and the game was a buggy mess? 0_o
He's not the same as the FO2 version, which had much more detail.
Engine limitations and time constraints was the reason why he doesn't look the same, not some lore reason.
Its like, why are the ghouls not like the FO2 ones too?
This is bullshit since there is nothing in the engine preventing them to make Marcus look at least the same as in Fallout 2. Again, if they had constraints how come they managed to make Marcus with so many details from the old Marcus? Would they really not be able to spend less than 30 minutes to make a Marcus model and a texture to match the Fallout 2 one? Modelers and graphic designers make the assets before and at the same time as the rest of the game is being made. What would prevent a modeler from recreating the Marcus while the rest of the game was being made?
What takes time in making a game in that old engine is the world building, scripting, quest and dialogue writing and set it up properly, etc. While the team is doing these things they can use placeholders as the real world objects and NPCs while the modelers are making models to actually put the right things in the world. I mentioned before that in FNV Obsidian went crazy with making custom models and textures for almost anything, are you telling me that they would take the time to make a different texture for a metal barrel pile or for a protectron (which most people wouldn't even realize it is different from one game to another) and not make Marcus as they wanted?
Because Ghouls only exist in a couple of places in FNV, non feral ghouls don't look that bad, there is no ghoul NPC from older games that they needed to try and recreate, if they made feral ghouls behave the same as in the classic games they wouldn't stand a chance because it's a real time game so if they drag their feet the player kills them all before they can land a hit, because they like the new ghouls, etc. Who knows. They managed to make all new creatures (look at the marked men for example, those are more like classic fallout ghouls, they use weapons and everything), if they wanted to change ghouls they wouldn't have any problem doing it.
Pretty much what was time constraint was making the entire locations and quests for those locations that they wanted to. Never have they said they wanted to make a NPC look any different from what it does in the final product but had no time to do it. Nothing in the game engine, code, models and textures show them rushing to make NPCs look like they do, in fact there is great care in the work of custom models and textures in FNV.
If there is a department where the time limit to make the game doesn't show is in that one. They made entire industrial machines that have nothing to do with anything from FO3 (check the Deathclaw quarry for example), they made dinosaur toys and a giant dinosaur building in a town, they made space rockets that actually fly and we can see the thrusters working, they made entire new pre-war vehicles like police cars and fire engines, they made totally new weapons and armor, they made architectural pieces and entire sets from scratch, etc. They made more stuff than they actually needed to finish the game in the present state. If they were rushing they could have used some FO3 assets and not change them at all and would have achieved pretty much the same effect (again, how many people noticed that the metal barrel piles look any different? or the robots?)
It's easy to just say that everything in FNV that doesn't suit us was because of Bethesda intervention, but it is clear Obsidian had a lot of fault too. For example, they broke the engine in so many ways (and without any reason to do it) that if I was to list them here it would be a giant list. They are a professional game studio and yet they agreed to make the game in such short time, agreed to get a bonus payment depending on a metacritic score, agreed to a limited number of words they could use for the entire DLCs, etc. They failed to know their own limits and failed to make the entire game they wanted to, it's as much of their fault as it is Bethesda's for being such an asshole company by making all of these limitations.
I love fallout New Vegas, and I like Obsidian, but they have their faults too and being blind to them only makes us fanboys.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
There's nothing engine-wise stopping an identical model being made, but to make him look exactly the same (with such detail), would take way too fucking long for one character.
Obsidian aren't modders on their free time. They went 'we need marcus done in X amount of time', and they ended up with a simplified model based on the FO3 mutants with a pseudo-Marcus face.
If you gave them unlimited money and time, I'd bet they would have made him look identical, or close to.
NV has a lot of unique stuff, but it also re-uses a LOT from FO3, especially so with character models.
You have a GHOUL COMPANION IN FALLOUT NV!
Non-Feral ghouls are ghastly monstrosities which look like they're about to fall apart, because funnily enough, they ARE falling apart, they can't run, and they're known for being some of the weakest people in Fallout, at least physically.
Look at this guy, he has one eye, and his neck is falling to bits.
They made so much new stuff, that is true, even more-so with all the DLC.
But again, they relied on a LOT of FO3 stuff to base their stuff on.
Feral Ghouls are the same (with a handful of new forms like the NCR ones, masked men, etc).
Mutants are basically a retextured FO3 model with new heads.
Etc.
Its not applicable to talk about the dinosaur toys when we're talking about NPC's and their appearances.
If they spent all the time on NPC's and how they look, they wouldn't have been able to make such a good world.
They did an AMAZING job on making the world, and the NPC's are good enough, but they could have been better...
I don't think its fair to say everything is Bethesda's fault.
But lets be honest here, for the time they had, they did an amazing job.
If Bethesda was fair, they would have given them more time, and the game would have been much more fleshed out and bugfixed.
But this is bethesda we are talking about, they aren't fair, at all.
Obsidian was silly for agreeing to some stuff, but I doubt they had any say in the matter, else Bethesda could just go 'no game for you then'...
Are you part of Obsidian or have a source inside? You talk a lot like you know how they did the things they did and why.
I am a poor excuse for a modder and I can make a much more detailed texture than the Marcus one in Fallout 2 in around 45 minutes using an old Photoshop version and a slow laptop. Obsidian have people with years and years of experience where their job is just doing things like that and using some of the best hardware and software. I am pretty sure they could wipe a more detailed texture in less than 25 minutes than I could ever make.
Marcus Model is also custom in FNV and even has the same armor as in FO2. If they were pressed on time they wouldn't make a unique model for Marcus at all, they would just use a different texture and that was it.
Again I say this, they used a custom model, mesh and texture for Marcus in FNV. And making it more like FO2 wouldn't have taken that much time since they already made a custom one in the first place. Basically what FO2 Marcus has different is a more "chubby rounded" head and more skin and veins details, which would be as easy as flattening and round the head mesh and then put more veins and skin detail in the texture, 5 minutes tops for both.
Again you're talking without knowing the truth. Every super mutant in FNV also has different models from the ones in FO3. It is not just a different texture and new heads, the entire mesh is customized, it was altered for FNV.
Open the files from Fallout 3 and the files from Fallout New Vegas in your favorite 3D editing compatible software and compare them, you will see the differences.
It is applicable to talk about both because they are made by the exact same people, so if they have time to make so many new models including some that are not necessary for the end product, then they would have had time to make a named NPC the way they wanted it to look like.
Also you do know that the graphic designers (2D and 3D) are not the people who make the world? They make the models and look of NPCs and items, etc. They do not go around making maps and markers and scripts and how items work and effects and all of that. They only make the models and textures, they do not make maps.
So having them making models how they wanted will not affect in anything the time it takes for the rest of the studio to make the worldspaces and the rest of the game.
I am just repeating myself at this moment. And I just noticed that this thread is about the Enclave and I have been derailing it without even noticing so I don't want to keep doing that.
So I consider that I said all there is to say about this from my point of view and sorry people about derailing this for a few posts without realizing.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
And I just noticed that this thread is about the Enclave and I have been derailing it without even noticing so I don't want to keep doing that.
So I consider that I said all there is to say about this from my point of view and sorry people about derailing this for a few posts without realizing.
To be fair I kept talking about the Master instead of redeeming qualities of the Enclave, so it's my fault.
Speaking of redeeming, they have Dornan, does that count?
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I'm not saying her ramblings are a replacement for FO1-2(Not sure about tactics) canon.
I'm saying Tabitha's rambling could perhaps benefit the lore from Fallout 1 and 2.
CourierFour
First time out of the vault
Dornan is the lord saviour of the Enclave. Praise be unto him or suffer eternal ass chewing.