Redeeming qualities of the Enclave?

naossano said:
Don't want to dwelve further into it today, but from what i got from the game itself is that Richard Grey, and a good bunch of humanity during his time, is still dealing with the trauma of the great war. Richard Grey's plan, as flawed as it, has the ultimate goal of preventing that trauma to ever happen again, by abolishing differences, and part of humanity's free will. If everyone is a brother serving the unity, there is no reason for further wars. Dumb-dumb aren't the best ressources to help the Master convert everyone, nor the best tools to help the new society thrive, but they don't contradict the goal of the unity. You don't need to be a genious to follow the unity and care for your brothers.
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Mind you, The Master's plan is insane because humanity isn't dying out. This isn't the case in, say, Fallout 3 where the Master's plan might seem logical but in Fallout 1 the human race is already back on its road to recovery. The Brotherhood of Steel is already an anachronism as we have the beginnings of a new civilization emerging from the ashes with countless new possibilities. Richard Grey's actions have the potential of ENDING humanity not SAVING it.

The Master has that Ozymandias quality where he wants to save the world without bothering to see if it's in peril.
 
Lily was a granny with almost 80 years.

As a nightkin, she became one of the most dangerous fighters of her time. So yes, the Master's plan makes a lot of sense.
 
This always bugged me.

Lily was a grandma, and thus acts like one in nightkin form.

But...Does that mean that super mutants are the age of the person they turn from?

Is a kid turned into a supermutant an idiot who talks about toy cars and shit?

Do younger poeple make super mutants which live for longer?

The their lives 'reset' so to speak?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!
 
Richard Grey and Harold didn't live at the same time as the vault dweller. They came before, helped those new societies arise. What they saw is the empty shadow of the old wolrd, the aftermath of earth destruction because of the war, the loss of humanity, the hardship of rebuilding. Richard Grey goal doesn't seem to be avoiding an ultimate end of humanity, but removing war itself from the world, so nuclear holocaust wouldn't happen again. The potential for ending humanity only come with the sterility of the super-mutants, a knowledge that Grey himself doesn't have until the end (nor the vault dweller depending on your playthrough) and cause him to abort the whole plan once he knows it.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
This always bugged me.

Lily was a grandma, and thus acts like one in nightkin form.

But...Does that mean that super mutants are the age of the person they turn from?

Is a kid turned into a supermutant an idiot who talks about toy cars and shit?

Do younger poeple make super mutants which live for longer?

The their lives 'reset' so to speak?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!
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In theory, yes, but i don't see why Super Mutant kids wouldn't change again through puberty, unless FEV includes/skips it. They could still grow up though.

I imagine that the forced evolution resets the biological clock, yes. I'm not a scientist but the key to youth is young cells and the transformation would definitely create a lot more new cells.
 
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Cobra Commander said:
Speaking of which, I never understood the point of setting the game 200 years later. This too much time, too much

. It may seem extremely nitpicking on my part, but I know what the reason was. 200 years (exactly) after the great war sounds cooler than ... I don't know, 70 years. Why did not they do a few years after F2 if they wanted to use Enclave and Harold so much?
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I agree. They should've made Fallout take place five or ten years after the Great War. Kinda like how Mad Max 2 took place ten years after society in Australia fell apart.
 
YeeCop said:
I agree. They should've made Fallout take place five or ten years after the Great War. Kinda like how Mad Max 2 took place ten years after society in Australia fell apart.
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I actually disagree because there's no option for truly ALIEN societies to emerge who don't consider themselves US citizens. Scavenger societies make no sense but societies which have only known the desert ala The Fremen are interesting.
 
CourierFour said:
In theory, yes, but i don't see why Super Mutant kids wouldn't change again through puberty, unless FEV includes/skips it. They could still grow up though.

I imagine that the forced evolution resets the biological clock, yes. I'm not a scientist but the key to youth is young cells and the transformation would definitely create a lot more new cells.
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They key to youth is ensuring DNA and all cell parts remain 100% intact.

What happens is each time a cell replicates, errors in DNA occur, and (I can't remember the name) something gets less effective/efficient/gets damaged.

That causes aging.

Even super mutants age.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
They key to youth is ensuring DNA and all cell parts remain 100% intact.

What happens is each time a cell replicates, errors in DNA occur, and (I can't remember the name) something gets less effective/efficient/gets damaged.

That causes aging.

Even super mutants age.
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I'm ignorant on the matter but is the aging of Mariposa Mutants different to Vault 87 mutants? Beth's mutants get bigger and dumber.
 
Pretty much every single named (and a bunch of unamed) super-mutant that you encounter in FoNV and its DLC were already there during the Master era, (2102-2162) and they kept pretty much the same size. Some suffer personality disorder, but that's because of stealth boy overuse. But that didn't make them morons.
 
Super mutants' cells regenerate really fast, so they never get damaged cells naturally and are biologically immortal (they don't die or suffer any bad effects from aging). They are also immune to radiation and all diseases not to mention they regenerate/heal from injuries much quicker than normal humans and also have reinforced bones and skin making them able to resist most normal injuries a human would suffer.
They are superior to humans in any way except that they can't reproduce, not "mutated by radiation" humans even get an increase in intelligence.
 
wait, what? I thought Super Mutants, at least in the West coast, aged just like everyone else, just extremely slower, meaning they will eventually die.
 
Zerginfestor said:
wait, what? I thought Super Mutants, at least in the West coast, aged just like everyone else, just extremely slower, meaning they will eventually die.
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They do. It would be as contrived as land not recovering from a nuclear war after 200 years if they didn't. The whole idea that Super Mutants on the east coast get bigger and dumber as they age would only appeal to those with a lack of understanding on how biology works.
 
CT Phipps said:
I actually disagree because there's no option for truly ALIEN societies to emerge who don't consider themselves US citizens. Scavenger societies make no sense but societies which have only known the desert ala The Fremen are interesting.
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I don't see a problem with that, honestly. It'll be real interesting to see former police officers, former lawyers, former soldiers, former anyone really, fight against the very criminals they fought against before the war; plus adapt from the cheery, apple pie pre-2077 American society and get plunged into the wasteland and fight for survival.
Plus a handful of wastelanders in the Fallout universe still consider themselves American.
 
YeeCop said:
I don't see a problem with that, honestly. It'll be real interesting to see former police officers, former lawyers, former soldiers, former anyone really, fight against the very criminals they fought against before the war; plus adapt from the cheery, apple pie pre-2077 American society and get plunged into the wasteland and fight for survival.
Plus a handful of wastelanders in the Fallout universe still consider themselves American.
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True but there's plenty of post-apocalypse stories where we have zombies and the super-flu and so on in video games. While places where humanity is rebuilding (as much as I love stories about how humanity is INCAPABLE of rebuilding) is more Fallout's verve. Which is only Wasteland and Fallout.

But to each their own.
 
Zerginfestor said:
wait, what? I thought Super Mutants, at least in the West coast, aged just like everyone else, just extremely slower, meaning they will eventually die.
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The most stunning effect is practical immortality. Although theorized to only bring an approximate 10% increase in life expectancy,[3] the FEV strain in Mariposa results in a cell regeneration rate that exceeds cell death rate and prevents DNA degeneration through aging. The Hayflick limit is believed to have been completely overcome. This allows a super mutant to live for centuries, though if care is not given to exercising one's intellect, elder mutants may suffer from onset of dementia and Alzheimer's disease.[14] Death is made even more unlikely by the fact that super mutants are immune to common diseases[15] and radiation.[16]
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While in Fallout Vree's autopsy report it is theorized that Super Mutants can live 10% longer than the average human, Marcus in FNV is already at least 140 years old and shows no sign of aging or any other ill effects. If we assume a normal human in average can live to 90 years old, being 140 is living 50%+ more than that already.
 
Risewild said:
While in Fallout Vree's autopsy report it is theorized that Super Mutants can live 10% longer than the average human, Marcus in FNV is already at least 140 years old and shows no sign of aging or any other ill effects. If we assume a normal human in average can live to 90 years old, being 140 is living 50%+ more than that already.
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I'd argue he isn't in the best of shape, at least from visuals.

He has a leg brace and can't run. ;D
 
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