RL Weapon stats mod + Armor chnages

[Blackened]

I'm starting to like this mod. Though make sure that you're doing right the hex range. For 5 action points, you can run 5 hexes or shoot once with a pistol, then... Running 50 meters takes 5 seconds for the fastest people in the world, 7 seconds for really fast people, and maybe about 8, 8.5 seconds for average people. For 7 seconds, one can shoot at least 2 times (and DEFINITELY NOT 1 time) - it depends on skill also. Also, spear can hit from 20 meters, really? IMO 1 hex is about 1.5 meters. Or maybe 2-3 meters. If it's 1.5 meters, then for 5 action points one can run 7.5 meters, or shoot once at someone; Someone who's average runs 7.5 meters for about 1.2 seconds. I think an average shot with proper aiming takes 1.2 seconds, too. At least, it should take up to 2.4 seconds.

My dad made a pipe rifle when he was about 12 (now he's 39). But it used powder and paper to shoot, so it wasn't really a pipe rifle like the one from Fallout. And I doubt it has "2 AP" reload time. He said it would take like 2-3 minutes.

Since seriously... pipe rifle? Wtf? The hell would anyone make a pipe rifle?

It's a homemade weapon. In the Fallout universe, it's expected to have many people without enough money to buy a normal weapon. So they make themselves their own weapons.

The new Small Energy Cell inventory art you made looks like the batteries are, ehh, flat. Though I like the idea of conserved SECs, you should work on the inventory art.

Also, it would be more realistic if you make a change to the hit chance formula - at 1 hex, everyone should have 95% hit chance with a pistol, no matter the skill, right? And even someone unskilled could use a firearm to assassinate someone. Maybe a big +% bonus for when you're next to your opponent with a firearm will do the trick. And possibly a medium bonus when there are 2 hexes distance, a small bonus for 3 hexes, and a tiny bonus for 4 hexes.

And melee weapons should be stronger. At least, a knife would with a combat knife should be as painful as a 10mm pistol shot, or maybe more painful. A sledgehammer hit to the head would kill most people, right?

 

[Ravager69]

Just remember that all the changes will affect you as well. Make weapons too strong and you won't survive 2 rounds.

 

[Ravager]

M14 as starting weapon, seriously? =))))
Well, if you want some decent replace for this, use something like P14 Enfield - quite accurate, through lacks damage and range. This would be indeed good starting weapon $)

I was thinking of making Vic's place in to a real shop. With a lot of really old crappy weapons. Such a thing won't need much scripting I would just need to get in to the mapper and make it. Because right now I have no option to work on my older project (I can't script seriously especially elevators so I have to wait for Robers or someone else to take a look at it).

Anyway the M14 would be simply on one of the shelves there along with a Thompson and Grease Gun. Before that you'll have your own tent in Arroyo with a LE BB gun (a very crappy weapon, but good enough for a start). So the M14 will be available at the start of the game, but it would only have a 20 round mag. So that's pretty much 20 shots from a decent weapon. Of course the front door to Vic's shop will be locked and you won't be able to get in before blowing it up and down below in trapper town you already have the 10mm pistol.

It's all meant to make you progress with the weapons you use. Starting from basic BB guns then 10mm then the old SMG's and a M14 without a spare mag of 7.62 for those much harder situations.

I'm starting to like this mod. Though make sure that you're doing right the hex range. For 5 action points, you can run 5 hexes or shoot once with a pistol, then... Running 50 meters takes 5 seconds for the fastest people in the world, 7 seconds for really fast people, and maybe about 8, 8.5 seconds for average people. For 7 seconds, one can shoot at least 2 times (and DEFINITELY NOT 1 time) - it depends on skill also. Also, spear can hit from 20 meters, really? IMO 1 hex is about 1.5 meters. Or maybe 2-3 meters. If it's 1.5 meters, then for 5 action points one can run 7.5 meters, or shoot once at someone; Someone who's average runs 7.5 meters for about 1.2 seconds. I think an average shot with proper aiming takes 1.2 seconds, too. At least, it should take up to 2.4 seconds.

My dad made a pipe rifle when he was about 12 (now he's 39). But it used powder and paper to shoot, so it wasn't really a pipe rifle like the one from Fallout. And I doubt it has "2 AP" reload time. He said it would take like 2-3 minutes.

Since seriously... pipe rifle? Wtf? The hell would anyone make a pipe rifle?

It's a homemade weapon. In the Fallout universe, it's expected to have many people without enough money to buy a normal weapon. So they make themselves their own weapons.

The new Small Energy Cell inventory art you made looks like the batteries are, ehh, flat. Though I like the idea of conserved SECs, you should work on the inventory art.

Also, it would be more realistic if you make a change to the hit chance formula - at 1 hex, everyone should have 95% hit chance with a pistol, no matter the skill, right? And even someone unskilled could use a firearm to assassinate someone. Maybe a big +% bonus for when you're next to your opponent with a firearm will do the trick. And possibly a medium bonus when there are 2 hexes distance, a small bonus for 3 hexes, and a tiny bonus for 4 hexes.

And melee weapons should be stronger. At least, a knife would with a combat knife should be as painful as a 10mm pistol shot, or maybe more painful. A sledgehammer hit to the head would kill most people, right?

I pretty much have no other choice about the range. In order to make weapons realistic you need to make 1 hex equal 1-10 meters. When running threw them just think it actually takes a about a minute or less to run/walk threw 1 hex. If 1 hex would equal 1 meter then all the weapons would have the imba range and then there would be no difference between a sniper rifle and a SMG. Everyone would simply run around with a P90c. After all a lot of RL weapons have 300/450 or even 1800 meter range.

As for shooting, well it's pretty much perfect. A char with a high agility will shoot more then someone with less agi. I'm not really counting action points as seconds. More like combat effectiveness of the player regarding his speed and reaction time. Some people just react sooner then others, pull the trigger faster, more often. So I'm not planning any changes in that area.

As for the pipe rifle - you need tools, knowledge, a good none rusty and proper pipe (unless you want it to explode), you also need to make a fairing mechanism and other parts like the stock - that means wood. Good wood not some burned down tree unless your planning to use it to fire 1 or 3 shots before it brakes down. That's why I don't think anyone in fallout would be able to make one. Plus there's plenty of gun's in the wasteland. Cheep guns. What would be easier?

A: Working to buy a gun.

B: Manufacturing a gun in a wasteland and making it "good" enough to shoot more then 3 times.

I'll try to work on the art more in my spare time - Battery.

Don't know about the bonuses because right now you have about 33% chance to hit either way. If one hex is 1 to 10 meters then that's pretty much ok to me. And you still can't hit someone when you have no skill. When you don't know how to aim right.

And yes the melee will be a lot stronger. Hitting someone with a heavy sledge will brake bones, twist necks and kill a lot better then before, but it doesn't mean that it won't have any competition like (I was thinking of) a light katana or wakazashi which doesn't do much as much damage as the hammer, but it will be faster (less AP to use). Other weapons will also be fun to use for some nearly instant gutting action - especially when your sneaking. So assassins rejoice!

Btw is the new M14 good enough?

Just remember that all the changes will affect you as well. Make weapons too strong and you won't survive 2 rounds.

Indeed. Which is why weapons are somewhat balanced. Just take a calculator and count the damage they do.

Example (1/1 ammunition damage):

Enfield XL70E3
Old maximum damage: 152
New maximum damage: 190

(Not such a big difference is it?)

AK-112 - AK-112
Old maximum damage: 144
New maximum damage: 180

Beside the lighter weapons are a bit of a matter of preference you see. You can either pick an AK with a scope and drum mag for 100 shots or the better Enfield which is the LSW (now a light rifle since it's simply the same weapon in a "slightly" bigger version). Range/slightly more damage vs a 100 round magazine/less reloading. In other words - preference. Weapons have good sides and bad sides.

 

[Blackened]

Your M14 looks good to me. I can't really say, I know nothing of guns.

Also, your pipe rifle statement seems logical. Mine was just a speculation, due to my lack of knowledge about guns.

As for shooting, well it's pretty much perfect. A char with a high agility will shoot more then someone with less agi. I'm not really counting action points as seconds. More like combat effectiveness of the player regarding his speed and reaction time. Some people just react sooner then others, pull the trigger faster, more often. So I'm not planning any changes in that area.

You got me wrong. What I meant was that at the same speed, one can run 50 meters or shoot a pistol once. And this is very unrealistic, because running 50 meters takes about 7-8 seconds, and shooting once with a pistol takes about 4 times less. This is why 5 hexes cannot be 50 meters. A hex is estimated to be 1-4 meters, 1.5 I think.

Yeah, then all weapons will have long enough range for all combats. But this is the realistic way. I mean, yes, it will be appropriate if everyone has P90c. The problem in RL is that such weapons are inaccurate when fired at longer ranges, right? But they still can be fired? If so, then this isn't very easy to deal with. Anyway, in Fallout, burst weapons, when fired from distance greater than 1 hex, automatically miss 2/3 of their bullets, no matter your skill. But shotguns will still be used at great distances.

It's not that bad if weapon damage is very big. It's normal to die from 2-3 shots. But I don't know if this screws up the gameplay. It needs to be tested.

 

[Ravager]

You got me wrong. What I meant was that at the same speed, one can run 50 meters or shoot a pistol once. And this is very unrealistic, because running 50 meters takes about 7-8 seconds, and shooting once with a pistol takes about 4 times less. This is why 5 hexes cannot be 50 meters. A hex is estimated to be 1-4 meters, 1.5 I think.

Yeah, then all weapons will have long enough range for all combats. But this is the realistic way. I mean, yes, it will be appropriate if everyone has P90c. The problem in RL is that such weapons are inaccurate when fired at longer ranges, right? But they still can be fired? If so, then this isn't very easy to deal with. Anyway, in Fallout, burst weapons, when fired from distance greater than 1 hex, automatically miss 2/3 of their bullets, no matter your skill. But shotguns will still be used at great distances.

It's not that bad if weapon damage is very big. It's normal to die from 2-3 shots. But I don't know if this screws up the gameplay. It needs to be tested.

Well it doesn't really take less. You need to concentrate on shooting - raise weapon, get in position, aim and pull the trigger.

As for the pistols they will have less AP use then rifles and heavy weapons (heavy guns take the same AP to shoot but require more strength). After all their small and easy to handle. Also don't forget about perks like bonus rate of fire, action boy, and the fast shot trait. They all affect combat and I don't want to change the game too much. Just the weapons plain and simple.

I also already tested the gameplay and it's good. Personally I'm happy with it and I should update the rest of the weapons soon after testing them. I was very busy with the M60 as of late and found out the larges ammo box is about 200 rounds (2 tapes) I also worked on the image.

I want to make it a good and reliable weapon. A nice alternative for the miniguns. Less damage, more range, decent ammunition (Miniguns use a smaller caliber, but fire more bullets - I couldn't give them the stats of RL miniguns because those use different ammo and are mounted all kinds of vehicles, the tested infantry miniguns where hard to handle even in the hands of muscular commando brutes).

 

[Blackened]

Hey, look what I found - it's Fallout Tactics' version of Small Energy Cells.

 

[Ravager]

After many hours and changes I came up with this:

The FoT cells look somewhat strange IMO, but I think the one I made should be ok. After all it look so very long and I ran so many tests. Gotta edit a few things in the past messages.

Might add a bit of a darker shadow to the other battery - close to the edge.

 

[Ravager]

I need some opinions regarding my vision of 3 or 2 types of fighters.

1) The Heavy Tank fighter who just takes the hit (low AC bests resistances) - after all the bigger someone gets the easier it is to hit them.

2) The Medicore Fighter - someone who wears the Tesla Armor (a few good resistances, especially vs energy weapons and a medicore AC).

3) The Agile Fighter - a swift soldier type who wears a combat armor. He's got some really good resistances, but their kinda sucky against energy weapons - yet he has the highest armor class of them all.

What do you think? Should I simply cut out the medicore fighter? Leave him? I'm haven't decided yet.

My goal is to make every single armor type useful. So you wouldn't have to focus on getting Power Armor all the time.

 

[Ravager]

Update. Replacing the Sawed-Off Shotgun - this one:

Not this one:

With an M-90 pump action shotgun with a flashlight:

To help you out with those night killings.

Also made a new Enfield

Took me a few days but it was worth it. Plx rate and read the other post and give me your opinions on the looks and changes.

 

[Not Lost Hope]

My goal is to make every single armor type useful. So you wouldn't have to focus on getting Power Armor all the time.

Don't. 2 reasons:

-It's a game. There needs to be progress in phat l00t you gather. Early stuff = crap, late game stuff = awesome.

-The power armor was developed to be superior to everything else and it is. That's why in the video the guy in the power armor executes the guy in combat armor. He's better. Power armor is like a tank.

 

[.Pixote.]

My goal is to make every single armor type useful. So you wouldn't have to focus on getting Power Armor all the time.

I have no idea how the armor could be changed to affect the player’s speed/AP points…considering that all it affects is the armor class, damage resistance and damage threshold. As for the weapons there are basically two schools.

*One is the diehards – who see Fallout 1 as the best, most considered, use of weapons…with a mixture simple realistic weapons – hunting rifle, 10mm pistol, etc, mixed with retro futuristic laser rifles, plasma rifles, etc.

*The second group is the Fallout 2 weapon lovers – who see the new extra weapons, FN FAL, H&K G11, Pancor, Bozar, etc, as a nice enhancement to the game.

This mod will obviously be aimed at the second group. But changing the artwork of the original weapons will annoy many people, so it’s better to build a new batch of weapons that complement the original weapons. All it will need is some someone to help script it into the game, so that during the players Fallout adventures they come across a whole bunch of new weapons. I was considering something similar with the Tactics weapons. I have all of the artwork ready, everything is prototyped and working perfectly, and looks great in game, but without scripting assistance nothing will happen, but that’s why Ravager you need to tread lightly with people…piss them off and they will never help you. But keep working away, this could turn out to be a nice contribution to the weapon mods out there. But it’s preferable not to change the original weapons, even if some look dickey.

(Below the Fallout Tactics weapons – in game). What I will do is make a mod that changes the appearance of the dropped Fallout 2 weapons, so the Pancor will look like a Pancor on the ground, hunting rifle, etc…instead of all looking the same, but I’m waiting for RP 2.1 release so I use the current prototype numbers. But I don’t expect everyone to like this idea.

 

[x'il]

(...) but that’s why Ravager you need to tread lightly with people…piss them off and they will never help you.

Apologies .Pixote. but this is just so... mom 101 ...

(...) What I will do is make a mod that changes the appearance of the dropped Fallout 2 weapons, so the Pancor will look like a Pancor on the ground, hunting rifle, etc…instead of all looking the same, but I’m waiting for RP 2.1 release so I use the current prototype numbers. But I don’t expect everyone to like this idea.

Sounds good. But i know i've seen this somewhere before... hmmm...

Edit: Found it. Check this file in the download section:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php?action=file&file_id=856

Maybe you could use that or build upon it somehow?

On topic; i already gave my opinion in the previous page, but it seems i was misunderstood. Real-life weapons = unimaginative/reference = setting breaking = suck. But, like i said, that's just my opinion. The other ideas about additional weapon upgrades and some of the weapon frm's look nice though.

 

[.Pixote.]

Apologies .Pixote. but this is just so... mom 101 ...

Mommy just wants to say – Yeah I found those after I started working away (great minds think alike), but I actually changed the artwork – inventory and items. The images have been de-saturated and worked on so they fit in more naturally with the style of Fallout, as well I flipped certain items so they look better in game, the originals were too colorful and bright. I am hoping that if this can be tied in with Josan's “drop weapon” mod – the idea is that each ground weapon item will have the six different directions, and upon dropping their weapon the script will chose a random direction, that way the battles always feel chaotic and fresh.

*Another super sexy avatar Xíl…it’s a shame it’s too much work to build a critter like that for the game. But it can be done…

 

[Josan12]

*Another super sexy avatar Xíl…it’s a shame it’s too much work to build a critter like that for the game. But it can be done…

Totally. I love the shades. Ahh the possibilities ... all that stands between us and x'il's playable avatar is a few 1000 frames ....

 

[Continuum]

X'il's avatar is looking like some sort of retro futuristic Rambo Bambo!

Real-life weapons = unimaginative/reference = setting breaking = suck.

Amen to that!

it’s a shame it’s too much work to build a critter like that for the game.

You can always put still into the game and imagine ALL directions/animations. Fallout isn't about graphics after all

 

[.Pixote.]

Real-life weapons = unimaginative/reference = setting breaking = suck.

I agree to some degree…I’m not a weapon whore – more isn’t necessarily better, but more appropriate is. The best weapons in the game have always been the imaginary ones – Fallout 2 screwed the balance with too many realistic modern firearms, but I don’t see a problem with some of the older real life firearms - i.e. the M14 or double barrel shotgun (guns of that period). But I much prefer the idea of new lower end weapons for the game – spears, knives, axes, clubs, etc, typical handmade scavenger weapons and more handmade guns (zip and pipe rifles).

 

[Ravager]

Don't. 2 reasons:

-It's a game. There needs to be progress in phat l00t you gather. Early stuff = crap, late game stuff = awesome.

-The power armor was developed to be superior to everything else and it is. That's why in the video the guy in the power armor executes the guy in combat armor. He's better. Power armor is like a tank.

Let me me explain this:

There are 3 type of endgame armors:

Power Armor - it makes you a heavy, walking, talking tank that soaks up damage. It has some of the best resistance stats, but it's large so the armor class is low and the guy that wears it easy to hit right? So you practically soak damage after getting shot at and most of the bullets just bounce off of you, unless your getting hit by something heavy.

Medicore type metal armors with the final one being the Tesla Armor (might give it some unique looks). With decent resistances, higher AC due to it's smaller size and the best energy weapon resistance, but not the best damage soaking armor like the Power Armor. It gives you both the ability to soak a bit and dodge a bit.

Light and fast Combat Armor types. Worst resistances over all out of the last 3 final armor types, but the Brotherhood Armor would have a small hydraulics system (+1 strength - if that's even possible to do) with the highest armor class of all 3 final armor types making you a very agile, fighter which concentrates more on donging attacks then taking damage. This armor also does not restrict movement (like a leather jacket would - I find mine to restrict movement to some degree and it's not the most comfortable, so any heavy leather peace would restrict movement further).

Of course none of these changes would affect agility. They would only affect Armor class and resistances. The ability to dodge attacks.

Real-life weapons = unimaginative/reference = setting breaking = suck.

I agree to some degree…I’m not a weapon whore – more isn’t necessarily better, but more appropriate is. The best weapons in the game have always been the imaginary ones – Fallout 2 screwed the balance with too many realistic modern firearms, but I don’t see a problem with some of the older real life firearms - i.e. the M14 or double barrel shotgun (guns of that period). But I much prefer the idea of new lower end weapons for the game – spears, knives, axes, clubs, etc, typical handmade scavenger weapons and more handmade guns (zip and pipe rifles).

There are already a lot of RL weapons in Fallout or some based on them like the AK-112 (so far we have AK-108). The problem is someone screwed with them it seems just like they where screwing with the ammunition - AP deals a lot leas damage then JHP.

This was all flawed from the start to achieve some measure of balance, but in the end we didn't get much balance at all.

My mod will change that slightly. You still will see big guns preforming somewhat better then small guns, but that's because they should. What balances them is Guns and Bullets. Free skill points - a lot of them, but that won't mean that a LSW (now a small gun) won't be able to punch threw a power armor with a 5.56 mm AP round. AP rounds are actually the best now and you'll have problems fighting heavy armored opponents without them since JHP will have some minor nerfs.

------------------------------------------------

I also forgot to mention that I'm not really adding a lot of new weapons. Just a few. Most of the art you seen is actually meant to replace the looks on already existing guns. Which is why I'll update my first post here soon.

Anyway you'll get your hands on a few nice toys. The Enfield will be more accessible, you'll really want to use a M60, the pipe rifle is getting replaced by the M14, the Sawed-Off Shotgun (not the simple Shotgun which is a Sawed-Off Shotgun already) will be replaced by a pump action M90 with a flashlight (meant for night combat).

Besides you'll be surprised with the actual usefulness of the weapons making it hard to pick "THE BEST" weapon. Since there is no best weapon. Sure there are better or worse, but a 100 round mag in a AK-112 (exp mag + scope) vs the LSW = no clear winer. Sure the LSW causes a bit more damage, but it's got a smaller mag. While the AK-112 has 70 more rounds - that means less reloading and more damage in a longer fight. Of course the LSW also has more range. So in the end it's your preference that decides what weapon will you like to carry.

My goal is to make every single armor type useful. So you wouldn't have to focus on getting Power Armor all the time.

I have no idea how the armor could be changed to affect the player’s speed/AP points…considering that all it affects is the armor class, damage resistance and damage threshold. As for the weapons there are basically two schools.

*One is the diehards – who see Fallout 1 as the best, most considered, use of weapons…with a mixture simple realistic weapons – hunting rifle, 10mm pistol, etc, mixed with retro futuristic laser rifles, plasma rifles, etc.

*The second group is the Fallout 2 weapon lovers – who see the new extra weapons, FN FAL, H&K G11, Pancor, Bozar, etc, as a nice enhancement to the game.

This mod will obviously be aimed at the second group. But changing the artwork of the original weapons will annoy many people, so it’s better to build a new batch of weapons that complement the original weapons. All it will need is some someone to help script it into the game, so that during the players Fallout adventures they come across a whole bunch of new weapons. I was considering something similar with the Tactics weapons. I have all of the artwork ready, everything is prototyped and working perfectly, and looks great in game, but without scripting assistance nothing will happen, but that’s why Ravager you need to tread lightly with people…piss them off and they will never help you. But keep working away, this could turn out to be a nice contribution to the weapon mods out there. But it’s preferable not to change the original weapons, even if some look dickey.

(Below the Fallout Tactics weapons – in game). What I will do is make a mod that changes the appearance of the dropped Fallout 2 weapons, so the Pancor will look like a Pancor on the ground, hunting rifle, etc…instead of all looking the same, but I’m waiting for RP 2.1 release so I use the current prototype numbers. But I don’t expect everyone to like this idea.

Those look good! Is there any place I could get those?

And do you think anyone will miss this:

Or this?

And even this?

Their extremely rare, people barely use them. Not to mention that that shotgun is a clone and we have no pump action shotgun.

I want someone to say "Wow! This M60 looks really cool! And it has some good damage, not like a minigun but the range is so nice on this thing!". I also want the Enfield family to be decent. Not out classed by the AK's so that people would wanna use them. Make their own style of fighting.

 

[Sephis]

Keep the .223 pistol the same man, a rifle needs to be specially designed and chambered to go full auto. Cutting it down and changing a few things wouldn't let it be anything other then what it orginally was

 

[Ravager]

Keep the .223 pistol the same man, a rifle needs to be specially designed and chambered to go full auto. Cutting it down and changing a few things wouldn't let it be anything other then what it orginally was

Thx for your opinion, but do you really think it wouldn't be able to dish out some full auto rounds? Sure it's been cut down from a rifle but we see a lot of small SMG's and pistols with burst fire modes that empty the mag in mere seconds.

I was also inspired by the double trigger. The gun has 2 triggers. One could serve as a single fire trigger and the other could just unload the entire mag. It's possible don't you think?

 

[.Pixote.]

You don’t need to worry about the pistol burst animation for the critters – it’s been finished already, but it will require some scripting to make it functional. Every character in the game that uses a pistol has had its animation built, so that varies from low life scum to power armor critters. As for the actual inventory artwork well that’s a different issue, but I always thought the 14mm could be capable of a semi burst action – maybe 3 rounds.

These are the weapons from Van Buren, but I would use them with care, because many people think that they don’t suit the setting at all. One thing that annoys me is the angle they rendered them at…