RL Weapon stats mod + Armor chnages

[Ravager]

You don’t need to worry about the pistol burst animation for the critters – it’s been finished already, but it will require some scripting to make it functional. Every character in the game that uses a pistol has had its animation built, so that varies from low life scum to power armor critters. As for the actual inventory artwork well that’s a different issue, but I always thought the 14mm could be capable of a semi burst action – maybe 3 rounds.

For now I'll just be using a SMG for it. I also have problems with scripting and such, but I guess everyone knows that already.

As for the 14.0 mm well it's the largest caliber in game. Not even the M2 browning has that kind of ammo size which would explain the big BOOM! Every time you shoot this gun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/M2_machine_gun.jpg

The pistol also looks like a SMG because the gun must be pretty massive. I couldn't imagine myself a bigger, larger gun then this one. I even raised the strength requirement for it. AP use is also higher.

The .223 seems like a better automatic pistol. It has two triggers and rifle parts.

I also looked at the Van Buren weapons and I must say I like the Fo1/Fo2 weapons a lot more. The original Vault Suit was also a lot better.

 

[Grayswandir]

I always thought the .223 was the exact contrary of a submachinegun, (an automatic rifle that shoot pistol bullets), a sort of übergun, a pistol that shoot rifle bullet. Plus it has a cylinder. You don't see a lot of automatic revolvers i think. But I am in no way a gunmaster.

Regarding the shotgun, i thinks its ok, it's weird enought to fit the setting. the image is just a little too big, it looks like a big gun...
I like the M14 very much. The enfield not so much. Too modern.
My 2 cents...

 

[Ravager]

I always thought the .223 was the exact contrary of a submachinegun, (an automatic rifle that shoot pistol bullets), a sort of übergun, a pistol that shoot rifle bullet. Plus it has a cylinder. You don't see a lot of automatic revolvers i think. But I am in no way a gunmaster.

Regarding the shotgun, i thinks its ok, it's weird enought to fit the setting. the image is just a little too big, it looks like a big gun...
I like the M14 very much. The enfield not so much. Too modern.
My 2 cents...

The .223 rounds are simply civilian ammunition - it's military version is the 5.56 mm. I also never noticed any drum magazine. There are 2 little barrels on the side which look more like a part of the triggering mechanism. There aren't big enough to hold any .223 rounds.

You see there are 2 little barrels one after another and 2 triggers. So the mechanism could be complicated. Why put two triggers anyway? One would be enough but it has two so why not make them serve some purpose.

I'm also re-thinking some things. That shotgun you have seen was from Halo. Not sure if I should use it. It reminded me of the Combat Shotgun so I said why the hell not?

Now I'm re-thinking things.

Ah ye and about the Enfield - it was already modern. Which weapons in Fallout are not modern? Surely not many. Especially the H&K G11E. Just look at it. The P90c is also very modern.

 

[Grayswandir]

Well, there is only one drum for the 5 bullets. "Irl", it should fire .44, only in fallout does it use .223, to justify the amount of damage i guess or just for the lolz. And the 2 triggers are the remant from the rifle, left there because it looked cool. Anyway, I wouldn't care too much about realism for this gun. It's there to look good.

Edit: The gun itself is a mix of so much weapon i have to agree you can make up your own system if you want. There is an article here on nma about it if you want. http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=223-pistol-origins
Here is the quote from it:

Well, it is my personal belief that the prop craftsmen opted to combine Deckard's two weapons into a single unit. One of each for the laser beam to fire -as was amply demonstrated in the movie- and another for conventional centerfire ammunition. Each with its own ammo, each with its own barrel, each with its own trigger. Thus allowing for great speed in alternating between both, and speed is a matter of life and death as aptly illustrated in both the book and the movie.

(Still for me, this gun shouldn't burst.)

The weapon from fallout 2 took too much liberty with weapons. The H&K G11 was OK, because it didn't enter mass production, so it fitted the dystopian setting. The P90 has a lot less excuses...

 

[Ravager]

I'm aware of this and...

I also looked at a few of the blade runner guns and this seems to be most accurate:

Also since I wanted to make something old fashioned I finally made a better shotgun.

Finally something decent enough. The 3 other shotguns I've made didn't really fit in. I guess I should try working on the Enfield more... or not I don't know.

 

[Grayswandir]

Looks as if it has 2 triggering mechanism

Coz Ridlez Scott liked it so.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Blade_Runner

No visible bullet

Even if it were on the side where the drum is, you wouldn't necessarily see the bullets.

Well still two triggers

Still and again, to look cool.

Could it be the mag?

No. Coz it already has one drum. Future autorecoil laser Science thingie? perhaps.

I am not going to argue more cause I don't think there is much more design behind it beside "to look cool". But it has a drum, and it ain't automatic, that I am sure of.

 

[Ravager]

The .223 Remington - it's a none too military type ammunition like I mentioned.

"The .223 Remington is one of the most common rifle cartridges in use in the United States, being widely used in two types of rifles: (1) varmint rifles, most of which are bolt action and commonly have 1-in-12 rifling twist suitable for bullets between 40 to 50 grains (2.6 to 3.2 g), and (2) semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15 and the Ruger Mini-14, which are commonly found to have twist rates of 1-in-7, 1-in-9, or 1-in-8."

The first one - 5.56, second Winchester and third 7.62.

"While the 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are very similar, they are not identical.

Military cases are generally made from thicker brass than commercial cases; this reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure."

Now look at the size of that ammunition and try fitting it to a barrel in this gun:

http://www.jasonhuselton.com/BladeRunnerBlaster2.jpg

It's impossible. Plus there is no barrel. No barrel >at all< it is not a super 1 shot gun. The 223 sucks donkey balls but the pistol could have been cut down from a type of rifle which would be similar to the AR-15 rifle:

http://www.neaca.com/images/Colt_AR-15_SP1_SP495xx_.JPG

Which means it's mechanism would be still capable of darning it's small mag in a short time.

Also - Since I'm making weapons compete with each other I don't want to make the .223 Pistol to suck. And since it can have burst fire I'll give it burst fire. I asked a lot of people and I've done a lot of research. So it is realistic and it adds balance to the game - since you don't have any other weapon that shoots these rounds in bust fire mode.

No 223 bullet could ever fit in to a barrel unless it was huge! Just look at the screenshot.

Now this is a barrel:

http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/600_handgun.jpg

It makes the weapon look all fat and the .223 Pistol is rather slim for it's size. Which means that the .223 certainly does not have a barrel.

 

[Ravager]

The Enfield really looked bad and none too Falloutish so I changed it completely:

I also worked a bit on the shotgun:

They should all fit perfectly in the game so I'm gonna update the first posts and do the shotgun section today.

 

[.Pixote.]

If the Shotgun is smaller you can see it better in the inventory window.

 

[Ravager]

I'm having a certain problem... you see 12 Gauge shotgun shells are pretty crappy when it comes to armor penetration. So the shotguns have some extremely high damage (I might even make it higher) while having a very, very short range. Yet their not effective VS armor so I need to make a AP shotgun round. If I will make a new ammunition round then it's going have to land in the game somehow.

The question is how to add it to a merchant's inventory?

Also all the small weapons are pretty much finished by now.

My work might also be delayed by my damage hard drive. Luckilly I made a lot of copies on CD's. I have no idea when I'll be done.

If the Shotgun is smaller you can see it better in the inventory window.

Thx but there's already a small shotgun.

1) A 2 barrel. ---- small pistol sized

2) Pump action.

3) 3 auto shotguns. They all have different styles and none of them is better then the other -> perhaps there's just a little bit more advantage on the H&K and Pancor side, but remember that the Winchester City-Killer still has the biggest mag.

Either way it will be your preference which final auto shotgun will you use in the end.

 

[Ardent]

The question is how to add it to a merchant's inventory?

Fairly easy:
1. Make the new ammo type and create a PID reference for it (type in a new reference in ITEMPID.H)
2. Open the merchant stock box's script (e.g.: KISBOX.ssl)
3. Find map_enter_p_proc or map_update_p_proc (can't remember atm). The procedure should contain several lines like the following:

check_restock_item(PID_STIMPAK, 2, 6, 100)

4. Type in something like this:

check_restock_item(PID_SHOTGUN_SHELL_AP, 1, 3, 100)

Use your new PID reference. The first number (1) is the minimum number of instances of this item possible to appear. The second number (3) is the maximum number of instances. The third (100) is the percentage chance of this item appearing in the inventory.
5. Remember - no semi-colon ( at the end of this line.
6. Compile script and voila!

Hope this helps.

 

[Ravager]

Hmmm... sounds like a lot of work + programming hmm... why not just replace some useless item? Like a Shiv? It was bugged anyway. It should work right?

 

[Ravager]

Bump. I know I have been neglecting my work. Especially the alternative EPA, but the death and sickness of my cat where... well awful experiences. In one day I even lost my GF... so life isn't pretty for me + that damaged hard drive... is such a pain in the ass.

Does anyone mind the "slight" change to the gatling minigun? You see my cat was all black, he had only a little bit of white fur. I wanted to immortalize Alucard with this weapon. Both in looks (black cat, yellow eyes with a little spots in them) and it's damage. It can compete with other miniguns without much of a problem if your the energy weapon using type. Also - a few armors will take a slight nerf to laser resistance.

 

[TwoEyedYum]

A Sig-Sauer 14mm Auto Pistol. Large, single shot handgun. Excellent craftmanship.

Damage: 12-22 / 78-90
Damage type: Normal

Attack modes:
Single Shot (AP: 5, R: 30/25)
Aimed Shot (AP: 6, R: 30/25)

Man, even considering rarity of this baby, you made it TOO powerful. Even lowered range won't nerf it - as there's no more hurt in close combat, where you can kill some-one with one shot. Person with ST7, AG10, PE8 and LK6-10 (Gifted+F.Shot/Finesse) will pawn anyone, not covered with PA

 

[Ravager]

A Sig-Sauer 14mm Auto Pistol. Large, single shot handgun. Excellent craftmanship.

Damage: 12-22 / 78-90
Damage type: Normal

Attack modes:
Single Shot (AP: 5, R: 30/25)
Aimed Shot (AP: 6, R: 30/25)

Man, even considering rarity of this baby, you made it TOO powerful. Even lowered range won't nerf it - as there's no more hurt in close combat, where you can kill some-one with one shot. Person with ST7, AG10, PE8 and LK6-10 (Gifted+F.Shot/Finesse) will pawn anyone, not covered with PA

Have you taken a look at the Alien Blaster? Is it that more powerful compared to it?

 

[Ardent]

Hmmm... sounds like a lot of work + programming hmm... why not just replace some useless item? Like a Shiv? It was bugged anyway. It should work right?

Not entirely true. Programming and "a lot of work" should take you around a quarter/half of an hour.

Replacing the shiv would be a very bad idea. First, you'd have to change the item type (from shiv/weapon to ammo), which would crash the game unless you found all instances of this item on all maps, deleted it and put in again with the Mapper (this is what I'd call a lot of work). The other thing is that the shiv is mostly carried by prostitutes in New Reno and some merchants in SF, so this ammo would be extremely scarce and found in weird/unsuspected places.

Besides, sfall fixes the shiv item. You could perhaps do with changing the useless 9mm ammo. But it wouldn't be much less work than adding a new item.

 

[TwoEyedYum]

Have you taken a look at the Alien Blaster? Is it that more powerful compared to it?

So now Alien Blaster will be more common than 14mm Auto Pistol? Blaster is rare enough for its damage, so i never got problems with it appearance in game. On other hand, you didn't reduced chance to find 14mm Auto Pistol even before mid-game. Or did you?

 

[gurachn]

...The 223 sucks donkey balls but the pistol could have been cut down from a type of rifle which would be similar to the AR-15 rifle:

http://www.neaca.com/images/Colt_AR-15_SP1_SP495xx_.JPG

Which means it's mechanism would be still capable of darning it's small mag in a short time.

Actually the original Bladerunner pistol the .223 is based on used the cut down receiver from an austrian hunting rifle, a Steyr Mannlicher .222 Model SL mated to a 5 shot revolver frame.
Definitely not capable of automatic fire.
It's in the game as an homage to the film, so I think it shouldn't diverge to much from that.
If you want to make it more powerful, I might suggest upping the damage, not making it burst fire.
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[Ravager]

Have you taken a look at the Alien Blaster? Is it that more powerful compared to it?

So now Alien Blaster will be more common than 14mm Auto Pistol? Blaster is rare enough for its damage, so i never got problems with it appearance in game. On other hand, you didn't reduced chance to find 14mm Auto Pistol even before mid-game. Or did you?

The 14.0 mm rounds are now much more rare then they where. Also - the Alien Blaster takes 1 less AP to fire. The 14.0mm Pistol is massive so it takes much more then 4AP (at start) to fire the weapon. It's heavy and hard to handle. A very good small gun with a powerful kick.

Also the ammunition 14.0 mm is very hard to acquire (like I mentioned). 1 mag contains only 6 bullets. That's only 1 full mag for either Bozar or the 14.0mm Pistol.

...The 223 sucks donkey balls but the pistol could have been cut down from a type of rifle which would be similar to the AR-15 rifle:

http://www.neaca.com/images/Colt_AR-15_SP1_SP495xx_.JPG

Which means it's mechanism would be still capable of darning it's small mag in a short time.

Actually™ the original Bladerunner pistol the .223 is based on used the cut down receiver from an austrian hunting rifle, a Steyr Mannlicher .222 Model SL mated to a 5 shot revolver frame.
Definitely not capable of automatic fire.
It's in the game as an homage to the film, so I think it shouldn't diverge to much from that.
If you want to make it more powerful, I might suggest upping the damage, not making it burst fire.

The first and most important part of this mod is realism - make the weapons look closer to the real world weapons along with their stats.

The second is to make the weapons competitive. There's no one ULTRA! weapon. Instead you have a few really good ones for endgame. So it's kinda like the customization of your personal arsenal.

The third one is balance which comes in a few forms. That means I count "Guns and Bullets" as a balance factor for small guns threw free skill points. Which does not mean some small guns won't be hella effective. Especially all the auto shotguns with AP incendiary rounds.

As for the 223. pistol it uses different ammunition. The .223 Rounds are for civilians. They have problems penetrating armor so the only way they can cause good damage is threw showering someone with those bullets - instead of just one single shot.

The 223. pistol from a different perspective a few gunsmiths tried presenting:

Adds balance, realism (because the ammunition for this gun sucks donkey balls like I said - even the slightly smaller 5.56 is better) and competition for the 14.0mm pistol - 1 less AP to use, a bit less damage, but it's got burst! And more range. The 14.0 mm is hard to control. It's got larger bullets then the 50. cal.

 

[gurachn]

...The first and most important part of this mod is realism - make the weapons look closer to the real world weapons along with their stats...


As for the 223. pistol it uses different ammunition. The .223 Rounds are for civilians. They have problems penetrating armor so the only way they can cause good damage is threw showering someone with those bullets - instead of just one single shot...

Adds balance, realism (because the ammunition for this gun sucks donkey balls like I said - even the slightly smaller 5.56 is better) ...

The Bladerunner/.223 pistol is a complete fantasy weapon that could in no way chamber or fire either of the rounds of the 2 weapons it is made from, so claiming realism as a main aim gave me a bit of a chuckle .
I'm guessing that you don't have much experience with real weapons.
Despite there being slight differences in the cartridge walls, .223 and 5.56 are ballistically almost interchangeable.
Where did you find that pic of the AR with the double trigger? Is it a real weapon? It looks like an airsoft mockup, and I can't imagine any reason for this configuration in weapon like the 5.56 AR.
Some target/varmint rifles (e.g. the Steyr Mannlicher used in the Bladerunner gun) feature double triggers to allow for safety when using very light (hair) triggers. The forward trigger in this set up has a very light (>3 lbs) pull but will only fire if the rearward on is depressed.
Double barrel shotguns also commonly feature double triggers - one for each barrel.
I have never heard of, and can't imagine any possible reason for using this configuration in a full auto/burst weapon.
Still, its your mod, so of course you can make it in any way you like.