Rude awakening: Why Fallout: New Vegas felt incomplete

[TheGM]

Oblivion had a auto heal. it was called wait 1 hour. It was a godsend because it meant I didn't have to play that piece of shit more then I had too.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

I thought the reason it felt incomplete was because they cut out half the story to sell later as DLC?

Actually Ulysses was cut because they had to meet deadlines, he leaves no plotholes with his disappearance (besides some ominous foreshadowing by Nash), and his story arc and character were rewritten for the DLC.

Speaking of which, the DLC were developed with a separate budget over a period of months with different project directors so..

I mean, I can understand the gripes with the DLC business model, but aside from the (in my opinion) GRA fiasco I think Obsidian/Bethesda did good with it.

 

[stlkr]

FNV starts linear? what you would do while totally pissed bent on revenge? go sightseening?

 

[Tagaziel]

Ulysses was a major character in the game, was the driving force that set the events of the game in play, gives the Courier all his motivation for what he does throughout the game, has a location named after him, and he was cut. Without any regard to the plot holes it would leave or confusion it would cause, they cut him.

He was the MacGuffin that causes everything that happens in the story to take place, and they cut him. That would be like The Maltese Falcon cutting out the eponymous Maltese Falcon.

Err, no, that was Benny. Ulysses turned down the courier job offered by Victor through the Mojave Express. There are no major plotholes without Ulysses in the game.

Oh yeah, and the reason the devs gave for cutting him and his storyline out of the game? They were worried it would confuse players to have more than one main story arc. Although apparently "confusing players" is okay as long as their wallets get a little heavier in the process.

I miss the days when game developers didn't insult your intelligence.

I miss the days when people didn't jump to conclusions and make baseless wild speculation.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

FNV starts linear? what you would do while totally pissed bent on revenge? go sightseening?

That's legitimate criticism. You'd expect someone that has to save their home to try and find the chip as soon as possible, but Fallout 1 still gives you the opportunity go "go sightseeing" and fuck it up. I don't see how that's bad, Fallout has always been more about the player than the character and its story, and that's something Fallout 3 did pretty well, imo.

 

[Morbus]

Also, the Creation Engine, from what we've learned, isn't actually a new engine. Of course it'll be used for Fallout 4 because Bethesda ridiculously keeps getting away with using outdated tech, but that doesn't mean it's a good engine.

The moment I noticed there were no shadows I thought to myself "wtf is this really a new engine?!"

Now it all makes sense. I just googled it, and it's just an upgrade of Gamebryo, like Oblivion's was to Morrowind's.

Lol.

No shadows.

FNV starts linear? what you would do while totally pissed bent on revenge? go sightseening?

Yeah, I bet you don't think Baldur's Gate 2 is linear either...

I, for one, was not "totally pissed bent on revenge". In fact, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who shot me or whatever. If I saw them, I'd kill them (because I was in godmode anyway, because that's how the game has to be played). If not, no biggie.

 

[Lexx]

Never had a problem with FNVs beginning and I don't find it linear either, as you can skip pretty much everything until Boulder City. I think you can skip even more and visit Benny right in the Tops. Haven't tested this, though.

Just because I can't run over some ugly mountains to shorten my walkpath, the game isn't linear for me.

 

[frosty_theaussie]

Also, the Creation Engine, from what we've learned, isn't actually a new engine. Of course it'll be used for Fallout 4 because Bethesda ridiculously keeps getting away with using outdated tech, but that doesn't mean it's a good engine.

The moment I noticed there were no shadows I thought to myself "wtf is this really a new engine?!"

Now it all makes sense. I just googled it, and it's just an upgrade of Gamebryo, like Oblivion's was to Morrowind's.

Lol.

No shadows.

I'm fairly certain there are shadows. I specifically remember noting it to a friend when observing the shadows cast by foliage at the beginning of the recent demo.

Although, I don't doubt that the "new" engine will just be Gamebyro jerry-rigged with some prettier bells and whistles middleware.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Lol.

No shadows.
.

Why people keep arguing that? Skyrim pretty obviously has shadows. Shadows for props at that, not just the fake canopy shadows that were present in Oblivion + shadows for the actors. The draw distance for them is pretty short, I'll give you that, but stating that there are no shadows is downright false.

 

[Morbus]

Why people keep arguing that?

I'm just saying. I don't really care.

Skyrim pretty obviously has shadows.

In the same way that a leprous person has skin. Skyrim has character shadows and partial object shadows. Walls don't have shadows, rain falls through the roof (from what I've been able to tell) and so and so on. Oblivion 2.0, only this time it's more obvious still.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

In the same way that a leprous person has skin. Skyrim has character shadows and partial object shadows. Walls don't have shadows, rain falls through the roof (from what I've been able to tell) and so and so on. Oblivion 2.0, only this time it's more obvious still.

I'm not about to enter a discussion in which you're going to change the meaning of "no shadows" just to suit your point, sorry.

I honestly wouldn't be bothered by Bethesda iterating on Gamebryo (since it's rendering technology they've been using, through various iterations and improvement, since Morrowind, they're clearly experienced with it, and that makes it much easier to build upon it), if not for the fact that they're acting as if now they've made "their own written from scratch engine" and the faults in their earlier games can be attributed to the (IIRC bankrupted) company behind Gamebryo. It's a fairly good PR move, though, I'll give them that.

EDIT: Of course, if the choice is between an engine that can't do night-day cycles (iDTech 5) and Bethesda's modified Gamebryo (Creation Engine), well uh..

 

[FireFlash]

As someone else mentioned, I don't really see the guy's take-home point. Seems as though there's a few loose ends on that one. In my opinion, New Vegas was better than Fallout 3, but both of them are not and will never be like Fallout 1 and 2. Why? Because they have fundamentally different game types, the earlier games were tactics-based. Things like agility and fast shot made a difference in a fight, for the original games. Whereas in the new ones you can still just run around in first-person and shoot to your heart's content. VATS (while fun), is not a replacement for the old system, it's just a slow-motion FPS add-on.

The only way I'd consider a new Fallout franchise title to be a true Fallout title is if it went back to the top-down view with tactics battles (with modern technology of course, enabling us to zoom in, have different view angles on the map, etc.) Van Buuren was going to be something like that, but nobody will make such a thing at this point. They don't rake in the dollars that FPS games for an ADHD society do.

 

[GeeZee]

Things like agility and fast shot made a difference in a fight, for the original games. Whereas in the new ones you can still just run around in first-person and shoot to your heart's content.

This is not a matter of perspective you play in, but balance.

Things like that don't matter much in F3 & NV, because of the sucky stat system and the fact that you are playing, by old standards, on very easy for the whole game.

The only way I'd consider a new Fallout franchise title to be a true Fallout title is if it went back to the top-down view with tactics battles.

Again, it's the matter of difficulty. Fallout 3 and New Vegas battles had the potential to involve "tactics", but if the game is so easy, why bother? This was, however, brought up by FWE mod for F3/Project Nevada: Rebalance for NV.

When I had 20% hp and few bullets in 10mm pistol left, I really had to watch and change cover/retaliate when the mutant was reloading his assault rifle, because otherwise he would kill me instantly.

 

[Morbus]

Making a enemy encounter tougher usually means you'll use meta gaming, not tactics.

Tactics have to be designed into the game from the ground up. And it doesn't have to be tough.

 

[brfritos]

Never had a problem with FNVs beginning and I don't find it linear either, as you can skip pretty much everything until Boulder City. I think you can skip even more and visit Benny right in the Tops. Haven't tested this, though.

Just because I can't run over some ugly mountains to shorten my walkpath, the game isn't linear for me.

I did this one time. Until I learn how easy is to sneaky those deathclaws at the quarry I did it the hard way: passed Primm, take the route to Prospectors Den, make a detour avoiding Nipton and Novac, follow the road to the 188 killing those Vipers on the way (at level 2, arrgh) and then headed to the Strip.

When you enter the Strip the game updates your journal for finding the man who shot you. Then you can ignore House invitation and when you enter The Tops, They Went That-a-Way quest is completed.
This path also makes possible to ignore the entire "The House Always Win" questline, you can kill Mr. House on the spot after recovering the platinum chip.

 

[GeeZee]

Not necessarily. Those mods encouraged player to fall back, shoot from cover, throw grenades. Of course, some of tactical opportunities are provided by things implemented by those mods, such as sprinting and charging into enemies, but it wasn't the major factor.

When I was playing Fallout 1 and 2, my behavior in fights looked similar. In the toughest turns, I attacked then went to cover, or ran the hell away to lick my wounds and prepare for the next turn. Didn't play, um, Fallout: Tactics, though, maybe things were different there, but even though original Fallouts were turn-based, I didn't feel like I was playing a game way more tactical than New Vegas, especially with aforementioned mod.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Never had a problem with FNVs beginning and I don't find it linear either, as you can skip pretty much everything until Boulder City. I think you can skip even more and visit Benny right in the Tops. Haven't tested this, though.

Just because I can't run over some ugly mountains to shorten my walkpath, the game isn't linear for me.

I did this one time. Until I learn how easy is to sneaky those deathclaws at the quarry I did it the hard way: passed Primm, take the route to Prospectors Den, make a detour avoiding Nipton and Novac, follow the road to the 188 killing those Vipers on the way (at level 2, arrgh) and then headed to the Strip.

When you enter the Strip the game updates your journal for finding the man who shot you. Then you can ignore House invitation and when you enter The Tops, They Went That-a-Way quest is completed.
This path also makes possible to ignore the entire "The House Always Win" questline, you can kill Mr. House on the spot after recovering the platinum chip.

You don't even have to kill Mr. House right away. Yes Man parks himself outside the Tops if you decide to take the Independent route. You can then ignore/recruit the various factions before you decide what to do with House, etc.

 

[Beelzebud]

This must be nitpicked... Wouldn't the Platinum Chip be the Mcguffin in New Vegas? It certainly wouldn't be Ulysses or Benny.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Ulysses is the person who made the choice for specifically you to deliver the package, and his reasons for doing so were never explained. Without Ulysses "The Courier" probably wouldn't have been the person to deliver the chip, someone else would have and the Mojave's fate would be entirely different.

Ulysses' actions in choosing specifically you, the Courier, are what sets the entire plot in motion. The developers have specifically stated that he was a very complex character that was deeply tied into the main storyline, yet they cut him out in order to make an extra buck.

And yet the only unexplained question is "how did he know that delivering the Platinum Chip was dangerous". It doesn't matter how much he was supposedly being involved, without him the plot is complete and that's the only unanswered question.

 

[brfritos]

You don't even have to kill Mr. House right away. Yes Man parks himself outside the Tops if you decide to take the Independent route. You can then ignore/recruit the various factions before you decide what to do with House, etc.

Oh I'm aware this, the best course of action is wait and complete some other quests before killing Mr. House if you are doing independent/ncr/legion paths.

But if the player are willing to sacrifice some room to manuever regarding factions, XP points and shorten the game a little the player can do it, that's the great thing about it.

I don't understand the critic about freedom in NV, you can resolve almost every quest in the game in violent or peacefull ways, with different strategies and even subvert the entire quest line, roaming the territory the way you want.
Yes, in the very first playthrough of NV the game guide you until the Strip, but after some plays you realize you can roam the Mojave the way you want, just like FO3.
The difference is that you need to think a little before doing it.