Rude awakening: Why Fallout: New Vegas felt incomplete

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Brother None, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Oblivion had a auto heal. it was called wait 1 hour. It was a godsend because it meant I didn't have to play that piece of shit more then I had too.
  2. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    Actually Ulysses was cut because they had to meet deadlines, he leaves no plotholes with his disappearance (besides some ominous foreshadowing by Nash), and his story arc and character were rewritten for the DLC.

    Speaking of which, the DLC were developed with a separate budget over a period of months with different project directors so..

    I mean, I can understand the gripes with the DLC business model, but aside from the (in my opinion) GRA fiasco I think Obsidian/Bethesda did good with it.
  3. stlkr

    stlkr First time out of the vault

    Mar 16, 2008
    FNV starts linear? what you would do while totally pissed bent on revenge? go sightseening? :?
  4. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Err, no, that was Benny. Ulysses turned down the courier job offered by Victor through the Mojave Express. There are no major plotholes without Ulysses in the game.

    I miss the days when people didn't jump to conclusions and make baseless wild speculation.
  5. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    That's legitimate criticism. You'd expect someone that has to save their home to try and find the chip as soon as possible, but Fallout 1 still gives you the opportunity go "go sightseeing" and fuck it up. I don't see how that's bad, Fallout has always been more about the player than the character and its story, and that's something Fallout 3 did pretty well, imo.
  6. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    The moment I noticed there were no shadows I thought to myself "wtf is this really a new engine?!"

    Now it all makes sense. I just googled it, and it's just an upgrade of Gamebryo, like Oblivion's was to Morrowind's.


    No shadows.

    Yeah, I bet you don't think Baldur's Gate 2 is linear either...

    I, for one, was not "totally pissed bent on revenge". In fact, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who shot me or whatever. If I saw them, I'd kill them (because I was in godmode anyway, because that's how the game has to be played). If not, no biggie.
  7. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Never had a problem with FNVs beginning and I don't find it linear either, as you can skip pretty much everything until Boulder City. I think you can skip even more and visit Benny right in the Tops. Haven't tested this, though.

    Just because I can't run over some ugly mountains to shorten my walkpath, the game isn't linear for me.
  8. frosty_theaussie

    frosty_theaussie Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 22, 2003
    I'm fairly certain there are shadows. I specifically remember noting it to a friend when observing the shadows cast by foliage at the beginning of the recent demo.

    Although, I don't doubt that the "new" engine will just be Gamebyro jerry-rigged with some prettier bells and whistles middleware.
  9. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    Why people keep arguing that? Skyrim pretty obviously has shadows. Shadows for props at that, not just the fake canopy shadows that were present in Oblivion + shadows for the actors. The draw distance for them is pretty short, I'll give you that, but stating that there are no shadows is downright false.
  10. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    I'm just saying. I don't really care.

    In the same way that a leprous person has skin. Skyrim has character shadows and partial object shadows. Walls don't have shadows, rain falls through the roof (from what I've been able to tell) and so and so on. Oblivion 2.0, only this time it's more obvious still.
  11. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    I'm not about to enter a discussion in which you're going to change the meaning of "no shadows" just to suit your point, sorry.

    I honestly wouldn't be bothered by Bethesda iterating on Gamebryo (since it's rendering technology they've been using, through various iterations and improvement, since Morrowind, they're clearly experienced with it, and that makes it much easier to build upon it), if not for the fact that they're acting as if now they've made "their own written from scratch engine" and the faults in their earlier games can be attributed to the (IIRC bankrupted) company behind Gamebryo. It's a fairly good PR move, though, I'll give them that.

    EDIT: Of course, if the choice is between an engine that can't do night-day cycles (iDTech 5) and Bethesda's modified Gamebryo (Creation Engine), well uh..
  12. FireFlash

    FireFlash First time out of the vault

    Feb 21, 2011
    As someone else mentioned, I don't really see the guy's take-home point. Seems as though there's a few loose ends on that one. In my opinion, New Vegas was better than Fallout 3, but both of them are not and will never be like Fallout 1 and 2. Why? Because they have fundamentally different game types, the earlier games were tactics-based. Things like agility and fast shot made a difference in a fight, for the original games. Whereas in the new ones you can still just run around in first-person and shoot to your heart's content. VATS (while fun), is not a replacement for the old system, it's just a slow-motion FPS add-on.

    The only way I'd consider a new Fallout franchise title to be a true Fallout title is if it went back to the top-down view with tactics battles (with modern technology of course, enabling us to zoom in, have different view angles on the map, etc.) Van Buuren was going to be something like that, but nobody will make such a thing at this point. They don't rake in the dollars that FPS games for an ADHD society do.
  13. GeeZee

    GeeZee First time out of the vault

    Aug 29, 2011
    This is not a matter of perspective you play in, but balance.

    Things like that don't matter much in F3 & NV, because of the sucky stat system and the fact that you are playing, by old standards, on very easy for the whole game.

    Again, it's the matter of difficulty. Fallout 3 and New Vegas battles had the potential to involve "tactics", but if the game is so easy, why bother? This was, however, brought up by FWE mod for F3/Project Nevada: Rebalance for NV.

    When I had 20% hp and few bullets in 10mm pistol left, I really had to watch and change cover/retaliate when the mutant was reloading his assault rifle, because otherwise he would kill me instantly.
  14. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    Making a enemy encounter tougher usually means you'll use meta gaming, not tactics.

    Tactics have to be designed into the game from the ground up. And it doesn't have to be tough.
  15. brfritos

    brfritos Humma Kavulaaaaaaa

    Sep 8, 2009
    I did this one time. Until I learn how easy is to sneaky those deathclaws at the quarry I did it the hard way: passed Primm, take the route to Prospectors Den, make a detour avoiding Nipton and Novac, follow the road to the 188 killing those Vipers on the way (at level 2, arrgh) and then headed to the Strip. :cool:

    When you enter the Strip the game updates your journal for finding the man who shot you. Then you can ignore House invitation and when you enter The Tops, They Went That-a-Way quest is completed.
    This path also makes possible to ignore the entire "The House Always Win" questline, you can kill Mr. House on the spot after recovering the platinum chip.
  16. GeeZee

    GeeZee First time out of the vault

    Aug 29, 2011
    Not necessarily. Those mods encouraged player to fall back, shoot from cover, throw grenades. Of course, some of tactical opportunities are provided by things implemented by those mods, such as sprinting and charging into enemies, but it wasn't the major factor.

    When I was playing Fallout 1 and 2, my behavior in fights looked similar. In the toughest turns, I attacked then went to cover, or ran the hell away to lick my wounds and prepare for the next turn. Didn't play, um, Fallout: Tactics, though, maybe things were different there, but even though original Fallouts were turn-based, I didn't feel like I was playing a game way more tactical than New Vegas, especially with aforementioned mod.
  17. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Sep 12, 2011
    You don't even have to kill Mr. House right away. Yes Man parks himself outside the Tops if you decide to take the Independent route. You can then ignore/recruit the various factions before you decide what to do with House, etc.
  18. Beelzebud

    Beelzebud A Smooth-Skin

    Mar 6, 2008
    This must be nitpicked... Wouldn't the Platinum Chip be the Mcguffin in New Vegas? It certainly wouldn't be Ulysses or Benny.
  19. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    And yet the only unexplained question is "how did he know that delivering the Platinum Chip was dangerous". It doesn't matter how much he was supposedly being involved, without him the plot is complete and that's the only unanswered question.
  20. brfritos

    brfritos Humma Kavulaaaaaaa

    Sep 8, 2009
    Oh I'm aware this, the best course of action is wait and complete some other quests before killing Mr. House if you are doing independent/ncr/legion paths.

    But if the player are willing to sacrifice some room to manuever regarding factions, XP points and shorten the game a little the player can do it, that's the great thing about it.

    I don't understand the critic about freedom in NV, you can resolve almost every quest in the game in violent or peacefull ways, with different strategies and even subvert the entire quest line, roaming the territory the way you want.
    Yes, in the very first playthrough of NV the game guide you until the Strip, but after some plays you realize you can roam the Mojave the way you want, just like FO3.
    The difference is that you need to think a little before doing it.