Rumors on the Game Informer article

[Egis]

So if you choose to be a retard, your dad will be a retard. Interesting.

this is an interesing point

 

[Kan-Kerai]

There would be no point in real time. The point in having AP is only for turn based.

Wow, you completely missed the point of something I said directly in response to something ELSE you said.

There isn't really any waiting in continuous turn based, if you are playing it in real time.

As long as the time it takes, in real time, to perform an action is matched up with the amount of AP it uses there wouldn't be any more waiting than you have to wait in between bowshots or sword swings in Morrowind.

Wow. You... REALLY don't see anything wrong here? Honestly?

You are advocating a Continuous Turn-Based system where all AP usage is timed to the ANIMATION SPEED- so that there is no delay waiting for the points to regenerate.

Thus, there's no reason for action points in your "CTB" system at all. Because it's tied to the animation speed, IT'S ACTUALLY REAL-TIME.

Unless you are advocating the player's actions animating more slowly with less AP and faster with higher AP.
Guess what? That'd be completely asinine. It's already been tried before, it doesn't work worth a shit. I can explain why, if I have to.

And that is always the case with real time/turn based games. Why bother with both ever, except for the fact that some people want to play in real time and some in turn based. The same could be said about Arcanum, which I am replaying through right now.

What.

OK, let's lay down some foundations.

There is nothing other than those two types of combat. Real-time or Turn-based, that's it.

Phase-based? That's an alternate type of Turn-Based, where entire sides move at once instead of characters.

Continuous Turn-Based? It doesn't matter what it's called: At heart it's very similar to Real Time, but it's limited by varying action speeds to slow it down. (thus allowing you to bring RPG elements into it more easily) Most of the Final Fantasy series use variants of CTB, for example.

There's literally no other types of battle system out there. Everything boils down to one of those four. One of those two, if you combine Turn+Phase and RT+CTB.

Unless it's, you know, YOUR type of CTB where the action points regenerate instantaneously so there's no delay getting in the way of the clicky-click.

This system... I shall call it... REAL-TIME TURN-BASED.

Can you see the fallacy yet?
--------------------------
Hey, you also seem to have missed the fact that the only reason Arcanum has real-time in it is because of the publisher, Sierra.

Sierra's marketing dept. forced them to implement it. This was because Sierra, in all its wisdom, didn't think anyone would buy a game that was purely turn-based.

So guess what. The poor guys at Troika had to try and rebalance the entire game to accomodate both. It fucked up the entire combat system on both ends.

Know why?

It's because Real-time and Turn-based are oil and water. You can't make them play nicely, as slick ol' real-time always refuses to mix.

Then as good ol' real-time slicks over the surface of turn-based, it smothers it because oil's rise-to-the top philosophy just destroys poor, dependable old water's.

And no matter how much oil you siphon out of that water, it's still ruined. They weren't ever meant to coexist in the same space.

 

[Autoduel76]

If you aren't going to bother to read, or understand what I wrote, there is really no point talking about it anymore.

I am not an advocate for continuous turn based combat. I said that that's what it sounds like to me from what was written.

Nor am I complaining to Troika's devs about Arcanum's combat, nor does why it was implemented matter in the slightest, to my statement about it.

Nor do I care what you choose to label as turn based or real time. I may or may not agree with you on the matter but, again, it's a total non-sequiter to anything we were talking about here, since I have taken no stance about what I wanted to see.

I only talked about how I read the statements and what I think they mean in regard to the combat that Bethesda implemented.


Your entire post seems to be you arguing to a nonexistant opponent.Yes, you are using quotes of mine, but you really aren't replying to them.

 

[Nology5890]

When my issue of GI comes, I'll try to get some scans, if my all-in-one is willing to do it. *glares at the oversized, not-working-quite-correctly printer*

 

[Anglish]

As far as i can tell VATS is bullet time type mode. When you enter VATS mode you have AP based on your agility. in this mod you are in turn based combat. You can move, target, access inventory, etc like in fallout 1/2 but as soon as you use up your AP you re-enter real time until VATS has recharged allowing you to access it again.

 

[Wild_qwerty]

Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states.

See Bethsaida and Pete actaully like us, VATS is probably a tribute to the Vats here at NMA, which could mean:

- They want us under a targeting system

- They just love us and we will also see an NPC called Roshambo

- Like the Vats here, the VATS is basicaly full of @#%@

- Total coinicidence

*EDIT*
"Slow Motion" implies "True Time" game play

*EDIT 2*

Level cap... i don't like this. I know, the original Fallout used it, but it was, perhaps, the worst point in the game.

But it also mean that they can sell an expansion that will raise the level cap by two levels and it also means that you may be able to import your character from Fallout 3 into Fallout 4 which of course will let you reach even high levels of character developement, then after you install the expansion pack for Fallout 4 (Throne of the Master) you can reach your final destiny as the "Mutant of Murder"

 

[Dagon]

I agree with you that the VATS combat system sounds weird, but it can be interpreted more like the TB than Bullet Time\Special Power:
You have action points you shoot twice or something similar, you run out of of them, then there is real time and it sounds like your opponents turn, they are shooting and during that time your AP are growing once again. Anyway it would make sense if in this whole VATS shit, you would be able to select your enemy in isometric view, don't you think? The only thing that sounds really stupid is that you can still perform actions in real time without action points, but that can be misunderstanding of the writer.
In my opinion VATS and Real Time are separate combat modes, and VATS is trying to simulate Turn Base, but in faster way, [after you run out of your APs all your enemies will probably act at the same time (is real time then after all), so not much waiting for your turn]
If it will work this way, I will be happy.

*EDIT 2*

Level cap... i don't like this. I know, the original Fallout used it, but it was, perhaps, the worst point in the game.

But it also mean that they can sell an expansion that will raise the level cap by two levels and it also means that you may be able to import your character from Fallout 3 into Fallout 4 which of course will let you reach even high levels of character development, then after you install the expansion pack for Fallout 4 (Throne of the Master) you can reach your final destiny as the "Mutant of Murder"

Yay! levels over 20 for xbox points!!


It sounds very D&D, NWNish to have level cap, doesn't work for me

 

[Vault 69er]

- Game runs on an evolved version of the Oblivion engine. Third person view has been reworked since the verdict was that the Oblivion version sucked balls.

Of all the complaints I've made and heard about Oblivion, the 3rd person view has never been one of them.

- Game starts with your birth and your mother's death in a vault hospital. This is essentially the character customization part of the game. Your father hands you up to have your DNA analyzed and you get to pick out all your character traits. Your dad takes off his mask to reveal similar traits to the ones you picked.

Suddenly I'm not going to want to see the results of that if I pick a female seductress.

- You grow up in the vault and as you grow you get your first book titled "You're Special" which allows you to choose you baseline stats for each of your 7 primary aptitudes. You'll also get your first weapons and wrist computer (menu) as you get older and take tests to determine the initial layout of your skills and traits.

Hopefully that's all fluff. I'd rather not have some boring Fable style kid mode.

- Every aspect of character creation is based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Of your 14 skills you can tag 3 to grow at a faster rate than the rest as you level up.

Good.

- Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states. "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time using first person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure". Battle system still uses action points, but once you've used them up you'll still be able to fight targets in real time while they charge back up.

Real time with pause?
[Vader]NooooOOOOOOOooOOOOOooooOOOOOoooOO!!![/Vader]

- Game is still violent and gory. One of the featured screens is of a guy's head exploding in super gory detail. Apparently all gory deaths in the game will be in slow motion.

And that's necessary because..?

- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

I'll believe it when I see it.

- Enemies can target you just like you can target them, so you can get injured in very specific points on you body. This in addition to an all new health/radiation system. This new system has you measuring how radiated certain things (like water) are and how they affect you when you consume them.

Let's hope it doesn't turn out to be a Radiant AI style gimmick.

- Karma system returns

Meh.

 

[abbaon]

- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Same. It's easy to say you'll support multiple solutions to problems -

A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

- and just as easy to ship a behind-schedule game without them. It doesn't happen on its own. You need someone standing over you with a whip, telling you the game isn't complete until you can finish it without picking up a weapon.

 

[radnan]

woke up this morning ... BAM !
this brick hits me over the head while i still have a hangover ...

some of the stuff sounds natural - not good ...
but the Combat System ?! wow great Action Points .. omg i ran out .. thats ok .. i'll go real time ?

and well .. this kinda confirms first person dont it ? - in which case ... i need a shower .. i feel dirty

LATER EDIT (waking up):

- Every aspect of character creation is based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Of your 14 skills you can tag 3 to grow at a faster rate than the rest as you level up.

like someone before me mentioned ... WHAAT?! for freaks sake what ? great ! just great ! that pathetic piece of ham of a skill upgrade system is in ?

somebody tell beth that jerking off does not make them proefficient

 

[scypior]

Rather confirmative post from Gstaff:

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=711657&view=findpost&p=10263251

 

[Grotesque]

I think that the talks on Beth$ forum about combat mechanics was confined in one thread just before this barrel of shit exploded in our faces!

 

[Yellow]

KralMelKor makes some things a bit clearer in the Bethesda forums if you're interested.
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=711657&st=160&start=160

 

[Dagon]

I don't have Game Informer in Poland so anyone please post scans or give me links to them by PM.

BTW to much hype on Bethboards

 

[God is Dog backwards]

Well this is confusing. A bit disappointed about the skills being reduced to 14, and the idea of your character 'growing' ala Oblivion. Combat sounds wierd, but bethsoft might have come up with something completely new. It doesn't sound exactly like FOT, but seems to be headed that way.

Hmm and double Hmm.

 

[radnan]

cant any of the NMA vets get a hold of the game informer - even scans and give their interpretation ? that would be much more trustworthy

 

[PaladinHeart]

I just spotted this on the Bethsoft forums.

It works similar in means of gameplay when you enter combat mode in Fallout 1.

I actually don't understand the switching between RT and TB.

It seems like a different balance of these two.

Judging from what I've read on the forums, the game seems to be in real time (like the original Fallout games) until you enter combat. Then it switches to your turn. You take your turn, using up your AP's, and then... in order to avoid the player having to tediously wait while 100 enemies take their turn individually, the game switches to Real Time until your turn comes up again.

If this is the way it is, then it's fine by me. Players might be able to use this to their advantage by quickly running after they spend their action points, but similar abuse of the TB system was done in the original Fallout games as well. (speed runs anyone?)

 

[Dagon]

Well this is confusing. A bit disappointed about the skills being reduced to 14, and the idea of your character 'growing' ala Oblivion. Combat sounds wierd, but bethsoft might have come up with something completely new. It doesn't sound exactly like FOT, but seems to be headed that way.

Hmm and double Hmm.

They're not growing as far as I understand they are XP based you gain Expierience and level up

 

[Yellow]

cant any of the NMA vets get a hold of the game informer - even scans and give their interpretation ? that would be much more trustworthy

Game Informer doesn't hit news stands until June 18. I hope they have subscriptions, though.

 

[God is Dog backwards]

But that also sounds like 'pausing' is optional and you can ignore the turn based aspect of it if you want.