Scores dead as Israel bombs Gaza

[fedaykin]

An eye for an eye.

Hee hee. It's hilarious whenever a bible-thumping retard uses that quote. Because what the bible actually says about it is the complete opposite of what christian extremists mean:

38: Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

While Jesus preached non-violence (or, at most, proportional retaliation), christian extremists conveniently ignore that fact, because it does not fit with their ends.
Another bit of interesting reading: http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/04/0407.html

 

[Blakut]

As you can observe, the troll started a fire but avoids discussion, leaving us arguing amongst ourselves.

 

[alec]

Hee hee. It's hilarious whenever a bible-thumping retard uses that quote. Because what the bible actually says about it is the complete opposite of what christian extremists mean:

38: Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Dude. The original excerpt is from the Old Testament, Exodus 21:23-25:

[23] If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, [24] eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, [25] burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Jews don't care about the New Testament.

 

[Chancellor Kremlin]

As you can observe, the troll started a fire but avoids discussion, leaving us arguing amongst ourselves.

Hehe, give the guy some time. He may have a life unlike some of us here

 

[fedaykin]

Dude. The original excerpt is from the Old Testament, Exodus 21:23-25:

[23] If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, [24] eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, [25] burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Which preaches proportional retribution, not "kill your neighbor's family if he kills one of your friends".

Either way, secular Jews don't care.

 

[jero cvmi]

Which preaches proportional retribution, not "kill your neighbor's family if he kills one of your friends".

in Gaza's case, its more like "flatten the whole neighboorhood and build a wall around the remains"

Hehe, give the guy some time. He may have a life unlike some of us here

no, i dont think so. nobody with a real life gets such joy out of things like that.

 

[M-26-7]

Hee hee. It's hilarious whenever a bible-thumping retard uses that quote. Because what the bible actually says about it is the complete opposite of what christian extremists mean:

38: Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Dude. The original excerpt is from the Old Testament, Exodus 21:23-25:

[23] If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, [24] eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, [25] burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Jews don't care about the New Testament.

Actually it's from the Code of Hammurabi, though obviously it isn't that exact quote.

 

[Loxley]

Seems people here thinks the countries around israel will do something. Get real please. They do not want to do anything for the palestinians.
Libanon? To unstable to dare start such a conflict.
Syria? At war with israel still. Only neighbhour that still is at war, but they do not dare an open conflict.
Jordan. Please. they are at peace and do not want the war to start again. They make big money on trading with israel. They care fuck all about the palestinians.
Egypt? The same egypt that started building a wall on their side to stop palestinians from entering into egypt from Gaza? They got a peace with israel and do not want to get into battles with them again.

That said..who else are supposed to "flatten" Israel? I am curious.

The first rule is that Israel always wins. How do you think they got the West Bank in the first place?

They lost in Lebanon last summer. That said, no country can hope to succesfully enter israel now. If they get to far in, Israel will use nukes, not to mention that US support will allmost definetly be there. The nukes work as a detterent and israel got the guns to back it upp otherwise aswell.

Also keep in mind, that if it were not for some very in the last moment support from france and the US during the years, israel would be gone or much different today. Not to mention that they also won because their oponents were morons. In particular in the first day. Big greedy blundering morons.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

To look at it that way is to ignore the last couple of decades in that region completely. I really don't see how you can unconditionally support Israel. I mean, im no Hamas fan myself, but to support one side blindly is just a bit... deluded maybe?

I support the side that is most* in line with my beliefs. I do have a couple of gripes with Israel but they are mostly old history at this point.
I do agree with your statement that neither side wants peace.

Still waiting on the death counts myself, It is approaching 300 I believe.

The hard part is figuring out the truth in all of it. Everyone has an agenda and everyone loves to twist numbers.

Its annoying as hell.

Still, I love Bal-Sagoth's interest in modern politics. Its only a shame the two of us see things from completely different perspectives. Still, I have learned to ignore that

I am glad you enjoy it as much as I do.

Things are much more enjoyable when you just accept the fact there are all kinds of different people with different opinions. It is a bit silly to get upset when someone else has different views.

It does me good to see there are still many people who can talk about events in a civil manner even tho they are on different sides of the political spectrum.

225 for 1 dead is actually pretty even in my books. I support the philosophy of "If they hit you with a stick, hit them back with a sledge hammer".

Then the 9/11 attacks on the us were perfectly justifiable. They should be a daily occurence.

Fair enough!

I feel any group should do what they feel is right to achieve the goals they set out.
However at the same time they should not cry foul when we go in and bomb them back into the stone age.

You from USA or something? That's a pretty narrow point of view. I don't think that civilians that died really "deserved" it.

How many civilians have actually died in this operation? Unless ZOG is controlling the internet it appears the majority of the deaths are Hamas security forces.

I am still waiting on more unbiased sources to get an accurate civi body count.

Civilian death is a sad but necessary part of war.

An eye for an eye.

How Old Testament (or should I say JEWISH) of you.

I just like the saying.

Isn't it funny how the rocket attacks on Israel cause a little damage and kill one or two people once in a while, and each time the Israeli army retaliates, killing hundreds of people, including terrorists, policemen and civilians? A hundred dead Palestinians for each dead Israeli is a pretty effective tactic. And then they say "we're just trying to protect ourselves from the terrorists". Yeah, right.

“Israel wants to bring about a situation where Hamas understands that it is not worthwhile to fire rockets at Israel, that Israel carries a heavy stick,”

While I know Hamas will never cease rocket attacks I do think the good Generals message is very clear. Israel carries a very heavy stick.

It's hilarious whenever a bible-thumping retard uses that quote. Because what the bible actually says about it is the complete opposite of what christian extremists mean
While

Jesus preached non-violence (or, at most, proportional retaliation), christian extremists conveniently ignore that fact, because it does not fit with their ends.

Uh, ok? Good thing I am not affiliated with any religious groups or bible thumpers eh? As I said before I just enjoy the saying.

As you can observe, the troll started a fire but avoids discussion, leaving us arguing amongst ourselves.

Sorry bro, Some people have to sleep and attend family holiday functions.

no, i dont think so. nobody with a real life gets such joy out of things like that.

Geesh why all the harsh talk?

For the life of me I never understand why people have to get so worked up when someone else expresses a different view. We can all have a nice civil discussion.

For what it is worth, I appreciate everyone's opinion here even if they are on the other side of the political fence.



**** Sorry if I missed anyone, that was a lot to come back to and I am about to go out to dinner. I will read over it all again when I get back and respond if something slipped by me.

 

[Loxley]

Twenty dead kids so far.
I get angry at both sides in this. hamas for firing those missiles just so they would not appear to be weak because of israeli oppression.

The israelis to start this action only to appear to not be soft on hamas. Also I get pissed about them allways taunting the palestinians in gaza.

And all this just for the west bank.

 

[alec]

For the life of me I never understand why people have to get so worked up when someone else expresses a different view.

That's normal human behaviour. Everyone acts like that to some degree. With some people it's just more obvious.

Back on topic: afaik, most casualties are Hamas forces. Only a small percentage are civilians. I don't see what's wrong with bombing the crap out of the suckers who bombed you in the first place. What goes around, comes around. And one party is always bound to have the better bombs.

 

[Patton89]

around 11-12% civilians. I wouldnt call it "small" percentage if the accuracy remains same and attacks keep going on for a longer time. And they attacked a mosque, a police station, and a TV station.

And, do the civilians really DESERVE IT ? And how much of an real threat are the inaccurate rockets ? And why does israel limit MEDICAL supplies,and generator fuel to gaza ?
It isnt clear cut "good" and "bad" guys. Or good Israelis and bad palestines. Both sides and even other nations outside can be blamed for the situation,historically ,and currently.
Israelis for blocking needed supplies to gaza , and gazan palestines for supporting Hamas, instead of Fatah.


Cant you use agents to take the responsible out, instead of risky air strikes ?
I would call the entire operation nothing but blind revenge.


And there have been claims by the longest published Israeli newpaper haaretz that the military has been planning the attacks for 6 months, before the ceasefire. If this is correct, it would mean the "defense" was just lie, and this is actually offense. That would explain the "precision" of the "sudden" strikes. And that would make this current situation more of israels "fault"

This is just fueling the extremists on both sides, and making sure no-one can live a "normal" life.

 

[jero cvmi]

I don't see what's wrong with bombing the crap out of the suckers who bombed you in the first place. What goes around, comes around..

that's the mentality that wins Hamas the elections.

 

[alec]

See, people: I'm with Hamas on this one.

Oh wait... no, I'm not.

Also, in all honesty, I don't give a rat's arse. Seriously. You think I'm going to sleep bad tonight because 30, 40 Palestinian civilians got killed? Because +250 Hamas dudes got bombed to heaven? No.

Will you?

These discussions and all the verbal energy you guys put into them? What for? Two days from now, you'll be stone drunk, partying like it's 1999, and that's it. Just by smoking a Marlbore or having a Coca-Cola you'll be supporting America who is supporting Israel. Just by playing that pc game you got for Christmas, you'll be giving America's economy a small, microscopic boost and America will give Isreal a small, microscopic boost in return and there will be blood on your hands, but you will fail to recognize that and just play on. And why shouldn't you?

This crap between the Palestinians and Israel, man, that's been going on since I was still crapping my diapers. People should just let those fuckers solve it by playing a game of RL Last Man Standing. There have been peace negotiations since I was crapping my diapers and more than 30 years later, they're still bombing the crap out of each other. No one gives a fuck anymore. So stop pretending you do, and just go eat some of that left over turkey that's in the fridge.



Have a blast, man. It's almost 2009!

 

[Loxley]

This is just fueling the extremists on both sides, and making sure no-one can live a "normal" life.

Which is the point all along. For israeli politicians it gets attention away from the west bank where they have gotten bad rep with the illegal settlers. This way they show that they are not going soft on the arabs.

And as said earlier. The point is that gaza shall be a shithole and a distraction from the west bank.

 

[Patton89]

i dont drink OR smoke. I drink finnish orange lemonade, cola made by germans and TEA! HA. i hate taste of coca cola. Jokes aside.

Honestly, in current world,almost everything effects almost everything. it is the way world economics work. If i wanted to stop funding everything possible, i would have to farm my own food, and live off the land in self suffient life style. not a solution in a nation that requires taxes to fund caring of poor and sick and not a choice if you dont happen to own farmable land more south.

And i DO CARE if people kill people. So, why should i stop caring, because you say so ? The problem is, i care about the chinese human rights, i care about the japs and yanks executing people, i worry about cuba , i care about the lack of resources, the economy that is nearing depression, i worry about russia nearing dictatorship, i care about zimbabwe and the people dying of cholera there, i care about aftican guinea and the possible dictatorship, i feel sad because people kill eatch other in Iraq because of petty religion, i care of myanmar, i care about my country STILL teaching religion in schools etc etc. Rather problematic situation, because i actually want this world to be something MORE than a cesspool of death and tyranny. Yes, i am one those bastardly people who remember and care about things that they "shouldnt" care about, at least if i listen to you.

And loxley, i know about this. They have kept trying to settle in to palestine areas. WHICH is unacceptable. Both sides can be blamed, but israel has most power currently, so it CAN change things if it wants to. Apparently leadership does not want peace at all., and is more conserned about POLLS then human lives.

EDIT: alec+ comp. before you ask if i have TRIED to do anything, i awnser yes. I keep buggering Parlament members and etc. with letters, and join demonsrations if they are for something sensible etc.
I even managed to get arrested once.

 

[Loxley]

that's the mentality that wins Hamas the elections.

Actually the mentality that won hamas the elctions was "how about we try the religious nutjobs instead since the fatha are terribly corrupt".
Fatah lost because it was so damned corrupt for so long that people grew tired of it. And hamas was a viable alternative.

 

[Chancellor Kremlin]

I support the side that is most* in line with my beliefs. I do have a couple of gripes with Israel but they are mostly old history at this point.
I do agree with your statement that neither side wants peace.

Still waiting on the death counts myself, It is approaching 300 I believe.

The hard part is figuring out the truth in all of it. Everyone has an agenda and everyone loves to twist numbers.

Its annoying as hell.

Reached 300 now, I believe. Funny you should mention the 'death toll'. That was the first thing a Jewish friend of mine said as soon as we began talking about it ''Well, you know, these have to be independently verified'' ... lol

I am glad you enjoy it as much as I do.

Things are much more enjoyable when you just accept the fact there are all kinds of different people with different opinions. It is a bit silly to get upset when someone else has different views.

It does me good to see there are still many people who can talk about events in a civil manner even tho they are on different sides of the political spectrum.

Yeah im starting to appreciate that fact.

What annys me the most though, is that even if we ignore politics, religion, morality and all that, from a purely logical perspective, what Israel is doing makes little sense:

“Israel wants to bring about a situation where Hamas understands that it is not worthwhile to fire rockets at Israel, that Israel carries a heavy stick,”

"We took Hamas by surprise, we targeted Hamas headquarters, so this is the beginning of a successful operation, I hope, but the idea is to change realities on the ground," Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told the BBC on Sunday.

As Alec put it so well, they have been doing this for the past 50 odd years. What results have they achieved? When have they ever 'changed realities on the ground'? When have these incursions ever stopped rocket fire at Israel? What makes them think they will succeed now?

 

[Blakut]

Fair enough!

I feel any group should do what they feel is right to achieve the goals they set out.
However at the same time they should not cry foul when we go in and bomb them back into the stone age.

Yeah, but if we start by disagreeing with this kind of violence, on both sides, maybe the world would be a better place. I am not a pacifist. I believe that military action has to be taken sometimes. But i still believe that the whole idea of war and military intervention is to prevent further loss of life. Yeah, it sounds stupid, violent pacification, but that's the way it should be.

However, if the us army kills some civilians in another country, why would it be ok for the other country to kill some civilians in yours? Why can't the people that have nothing to do with war be kept out of it?

Things are much more enjoyable when you just accept the fact there are all kinds of different people with different opinions. It is a bit silly to get upset when someone else has different views.

Well, no one gets upset because you have different opinions. Some get upset because of what your different opinions are all about. Do you believe in absolute freedom of speech? For example, can i post racist comments? Show public support for the nazis etc? I don't say that i disagree with full freedom of speech, i'm just asking you now.

Come to think of it, this was all started by Hitler. I mean, he was the one that made the whole world turn a blind eye to what the jews and israel did back in the day, when they started settling that place. After all they've been through, Europe and the States were not going to stop jewish settlers from having their way. The russians did all they could against israel: armed their enemies, tried to stop jewish emmigrants from USSR from going to Israel.

Sorry bro, Some people have to sleep and attend family holiday functions.

So i take it that you haven't implanted a chip in your brain that keeps you connected to this board 24 hours a day, yet? Man, the people these days....

 

[maximaz]

Bal-Sagoth, you wouldn't be so sure about all this if you got to be on the receiving end that bombing. It's easy to sit wherever it is you are and philosophize but spend a day under those bombs and then we'll listen to what you have to say.

It's nothing like the movies or how they show it on TV, it's not even the same if you are in the military. Sit in a basement with those you care about the most in this world and listen to explosions getting closer and closer, knowing that every second can be their last one and there isn't a thing you can do about it; lose someone you love and be among people who have just lost their families; walk around dead bodies of people you said hello to the day before and then, if you are not the biggest piece of shit in existense, you will think that nothing justifies it.

Only the most vile piece of subhuman shit would bomb civillians and only the most ignorant wanker would support that person.