Scores dead as Israel bombs Gaza

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aegis said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUjeZ2rjmho

about israel "self defence", not that i expect any of you to side israel.
Instead of making stupid litte snide remarks, perhaps you could try posting something a bit more elaborate than just a youtube link?

Legality isn't exactly what's interesting either, and it's well-known that Hamas inflitrates civilian houses, meaning that civilian casualties are inevitable. It's also obvious that Hamas is a terrorist organisation which aims at civilians. Hamas isn't innocent in this, and no one is pretending they are.

That said, stop acting as if Israel is some innocent group of people trying to just defend itself. Israel is also an aggressor, as it has taken a very aggressive stance towards anyone even slightly infringing on its jurisdiction.
 
@aegis: Try not posting links to ANY reports from Fox news, they're easily one of the worst, most ignorant, brain-damaged, poorly-informed news centers around, nothing they say should ever be taken into any kind of consideration.
 
A little story:

Right now people of direct and indirect Chinese origin is everywhere in the world. Let's say they decided to migrate to this small china-town in the US, increasing in population from 100 to 1000.. 5000 and growing. The families now start thinking, "why don't we have a chinese-only society to ensure our long-term survival in this area ?". So they formed a society, which has a lot of money, which starts buying lands off the community members. The society gained a mafia-like status, a cult called Zionism. Soon, they start threatening everybody else in the community to give up their land for an amount of money or be physically harassed.

I am very sure you will pissed off too.. watching your neighbors' land being taken over one by one. Even worst, you know your piece of land is the next target.

You can't really fight them, they have the advantage of kung-fus.. Throwing punches at them will only end you up with a crippled limb(TM). But you still try. Only to end up being called a terrorist.. so much for defending your own land.

</end>

I am sorry for having depicted Chinese people like that.. but try replacing 'Chinese' with 'Jewish', that's how the history looks to me.

If it's not for the name of 'Israel' itself, support from US and it's allies ( a very big power, combined.. I acknowledge ), and the link between Jews and Holocaust, everyone should have been able to see that Israel is the real terrorist here.


Holocaust is truly an overrated piece of history, the act equal to the Khmer Rouge genocide, or the Nanking Massacre, if you can really compare these things. Sadly, Israel is trying to repeat this dark-side of humanity and it's civilization.


Who can guarantee that Israel is really not trying to purge Arabs out of Palestine under the mask of self-defense ? It has only grown in land-size to this day.


// I am not really an Arab. I think the lies of US and many other democratic governments are pretty obvious. Democracy itself is a model setup for controlling the citizens after all. It's not there for the welfare of people. It's there to make it easy to quell uprisings, under the pretense of representation.
 
Sleek said:
Holocaust is truly an overrated piece of history, the act equal to the Khmer Rouge genocide, or the Nanking Massacre, if you can really compare these things. Sadly, Israel is trying to repeat this dark-side of humanity and it's civilization.

Stop taking drugs, start reading a history book, seriously.
 
Roflcore said:
Sleek said:
Holocaust is truly an overrated piece of history, the act equal to the Khmer Rouge genocide, or the Nanking Massacre, if you can really compare these things. Sadly, Israel is trying to repeat this dark-side of humanity and it's civilization.

Stop taking drugs, start reading a history book, seriously.

The Holocaust is an important piece in History because of it's well-documented, systematized nature. War atrocities on par or worse have occurred throughout history. Israel and Palestine rochambo each other to death while army's of coke-fiend teenagers raze the female population of Congo by violent gang rape. Our attention and sympathies are misplaced... or perhaps just misguided.
 
I am sure I would and will be flamed for that statement. I didn't expect a pointless one-liner though. :clap:
 
if they fire nukes we can all go and live in vaults :) and then get killed by super mutants :(


on a serious note tho, i don't think the conflict will end shortly. yes the peace treaty might be re-instated but there will always be a hatred between them.
 
Roflcore said:
It aint pointless, you have a huge gap of history knowledge and understanding and I recommend you fix it asap

Perhaps you are the one lacking the knowledge of perception, or rather.. the nature of human knowledge ? Knowledge evolves as new information is discovered. Not knowing the information, one cannot know the true knowledge. Please don't assume that you actually have the true knowledge.

Roflcore said:
The holocaust or merely the research on it is not overrated, their is no such thing as equal and Israel is not repeating it.

Several empires invaded and expanded across several cultures in the ancient times. It's sad, but said conquests almost always involved human right abuse. In the old times these were just mainly ignored, no global policing or media distribution. History became fictions, and slowly fades away.

1) Without the knowledge of the past. can you still say that the Holocaust was and is the biggest of them all ?

2) I don't think one could compare between the Nanking Massacre, the Mongol Invasion/Rampage, Holocaust, Black Slavery etc. Saying 'it's' the biggest of them all doesn't make sense. Killing 100 or 10000 people isn't what matters. The fault is in the mental state that allows you to murder some people you consider useless, or irritating, etc. Pretty scary that this mental state can be recreated in another person. One man kills 10. 1000 men kills 10000. ad infinitum.

The thing though, of all pieces of human right violations, America and the Allied countries chose Holocaust as their gong. I don't know why.. probably because they were the heroes who stopped it.

Holocaust was a very sorrowful period of time, I acknowledge there are many evidences that cannot be denied. It did happen. But somehow some people were indoctrinated, probably in their school, as instructed by the government, to react violently when the Holocaust story doesn't match with their version.

Just like this.. "Holocaust is overrated" and BHAMM ! I suddenly have a lack of knowledge in history. :clap:
 
Trying to compare genocidal atrocities on a scale of horror is quite possibly the most pointless thing I've ever seen.

What, there have been other atrocities, so now suddenly the systematic elimination of an entire population based on nothing but familial ties isn't an atrocity?

Sleek said:
If it's not for the name of 'Israel' itself, support from US and it's allies ( a very big power, combined.. I acknowledge ), and the link between Jews and Holocaust, everyone should have been able to see that Israel is the real terrorist here.
Yes, obviously Israel is the one systematically firing rockets at civilian targets, until they force the Palestinians to respond.
Oh wait, that's right, it's the other way around.

Israel is no Saint, but to call them 'the terrorists' is ridiculous.
 
Sander said:
Israel is no Saint, but to call them 'the terrorists' is ridiculous.

In my book both sides are terrorists. The only reason Palestine isn't or Hamas isn't considered an agressor or a bellingerent nation is because it indeed is not a nation, and Israel makes sure it will stay that way.

The homeless, boundaryless, sovreigntyless and powerless will always be branded the terrorists. When, has a state, ever been labelled a terrorist, even if their actions sometimes mimic those of their so called 'terrorist' enemies?

But we are dealing with semantics here.

The truth is both sides are wrong, both are agresssors, and neither wants peace. For peace to become a reality both sides will have to make some major compromises.

To me however, the fact Israel frequently asks for more than it gives, and has consistently refused offered peace treaties and negotiations (by both Hamas and foreign nations) makes me more amiable to the plight of the Palestinians than that of the Israeli's.

The ball is in their court. They have the power to end this conflict. And yet, for all that, they chose the path of violence, destruction, and continued bloodshed in the area.
 
What the hell were the future Israeli citizens doing migrating to someone's homeland from all over the world and announcing an independent nation though ? Of course conflict is inevitable if that happens. Especially when they start taking lands from the natives.

That's considered an invasion, and since when did resistance to an invasion on your homeland defined as terrorism ? 'Terrorism' is when you search people's home one by one.. terrorize the live out of a mother and her children.. because you suspect there is a weapon cache in the village. That's terrorism.

I couldn't gather all Somalian asylum seekers in the UK to Bath and declare a new independent nation could I ? The situation would've been outrageous, chaotic and pretty much shitey all over.
 
Sleek said:
2) I don't think one could compare between the Nanking Massacre, the Mongol Invasion/Rampage, Holocaust, Black Slavery etc. Saying 'it's' the biggest of them all doesn't make sense.

Funny, because for one I didn't say it is the biggest and for two you actually compared them. And don't give me that "I said "if"" - you started this whole thing with the intention to compare it.

("the act equal to the Khmer Rouge genocide, or the Nanking Massacre, if you can really compare these things.")

Comparing genoicide is a stupid thing to do, you try to make it relative and theirfor less horrifing. Which is a really shitty thing to do.

Come back when Israel fires nuclear weapons on a Kindergarten, till then read some history books (the good one, the ones that tell you "don't do that comparing shit") and don't bother comparing it with holocaust or stupid posts like "it's overrated".

---

What I really really dislike is (and I'm seeing this everywhere right now): Many people in western-europe/USA use this conflict to ventile their racism/hatred against jews - and thats just bad.
 
Roflcore said:
What I really really dislike is (and I'm seeing this everywhere right now): Many people in western-europe/USA use this conflict to ventile their racism/hatred against jews - and thats just bad.

Did you not get the memo? Its on the previous page. Its not hatred agains't all juice, just zionist juice :wink:
 
What I really really dislike is (and I'm seeing this everywhere right now): Many people in western-europe/USA use this conflict to ventile their racism/hatred against jews - and thats just bad.
My, no. I hate everyone equally. I still don't get it why it has to be the world's bussiness what Israel and Palestine do to each other.
 
Chancellor Kremlin said:
In my book both sides are terrorists. The only reason Palestine isn't or Hamas isn't considered an agressor or a bellingerent nation is because it indeed is not a nation, and Israel makes sure it will stay that way.

The homeless, boundaryless, sovreigntyless and powerless will always be branded the terrorists. When, has a state, ever been labelled a terrorist, even if their actions sometimes mimic those of their so called 'terrorist' enemies?
Aside from the fact that I used 'the terrorist' and not 'one of the terrorists' purposefully, Hamas isn't called a terrorist group because they aren't a nation. They're called a terrorist group because they use terror as a weapon, and purposefully target civilians. Which is not something you can honestly accuse Israel of doing.
In that sense, Israel certainly isn't a terrorist nation, even though it is an aggressor.

Chancellor Kremlin said:
But we are dealing with semantics here.
Why do people always say that it's just semantics, as if the meaning of what you are saying isn't important?

Sleek said:
What the hell were the future Israeli citizens doing migrating to someone's homeland from all over the world and announcing an independent nation though ? Of course conflict is inevitable if that happens. Especially when they start taking lands from the natives.
Hah! Calling anyone the 'natives' of possibly the most hotly contested piece of land in the history of the world is rather ludicrous.

You're also completely skipping the British mandate and the support of both the League of Nations and later the United Nations for a Jewish State.
The Arabs never accepted this situation, and refused to adhere to the UN decision.

The Jews had also been migrating to the area for at least 100 years before the Israeli state was established.

Now, this is most definitely a shitty situation for the Arabs, but to see this is a full-on aggressive invasion is too much.

Sleek said:
That's considered an invasion, and since when did resistance to an invasion on your homeland defined as terrorism ? 'Terrorism' is when you search people's home one by one.. terrorize the live out of a mother and her children.. because you suspect there is a weapon cache in the village. That's terrorism.
Terrorism is not when you are searching people's homes for a weapon cache, or when you invade a country (which, again, is not what Israel did). It's when you fire rockets at civilian targets because you want to achieve your goal through terror and killing civilians. This is not what Israel is doing.

At most, Israel is fighting a war against all Palestinians, yet actions over the past few years as Israel has made clear overtures toward sustained peace (giving up the Gaza strip, for instance) and Hamas has been the one who scoffed at that speak against even that judgement.

Sleek said:
I couldn't gather all Somalian asylum seekers in the UK to Bath and declare a new independent nation could I ? The situation would've been outrageous, chaotic and pretty much shitey all over.
No, but the UN certainly could.
 
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