augmented-dystopia
Wasteland Wanderer
NOUN
So no, despite being an enjoyable atom-punk game loosely based in the universe of Fallout.
So no, despite being an enjoyable atom-punk game loosely based in the universe of Fallout.
Should Fallout 3 be considered canon?
- Thread starter Sn1p3r187
- Start date
The Fallout IP is more than just Enclave and Super Mutants and BoS and Deathclaws. It would have been perfectly fine to start new stories on the East Coast without making any of the above a major player. New fans wouldn't have known the old factions anyway, and the old fans wouldn't be pissed off. Not everyone is as forgiving when it comes to canon and tone and quality when it comes to video games as you are. There are people not appeased by "LAWL ALEINS LAZ0RS RAIDERS LOOKITDATEXPLUSHN" when the fluff is about as watertight as a sieve. Which is made worse by the crunch also being bad, but that's not the point here.
Also, "new and innovative"? They gave the Enclave the exact same evil plan as before, and turned the BoS into generic paladins, relegating the original BoS to the Outcasts.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
Factions like the Enclave allow you to fill in the blanks a lot like CT Phipps seems to be doing here. They let you open up new possibilities like the Enclave being white trash neonazis burning ghouls at the stake while their womanfolk cook molerat stew at the trailer park. Enclave not white trash who live in trailer parks you say? Canon you say? BAH!
There were two ranger groups that were unrelated before the events of Fallout New Vegas. The NCR Rangers and the Desert Rangers.
The NCR Rangers were volunteers and only a few would be able to complete the training to become a ranger, they were elite troops/scouts. The Desert Rangers were a group of survivalist and kinda law enforcing/vigilantism tough guys (they are based on the "Wasteland IP" rangers) that existed in Nevada, Arizona and Zion and they originate from the pre-war Texas Rangers.
Once the NCR rangers scouted Nevada they came into contact with the Desert Rangers and both signed a contract where the Desert Rangers would join in with the NCR forces in exchange for protection and help with the fight against the Legion.
Also american geography is definitely not my subject, but isn't Las Vegas in Nevada? The Nevada rangers are the Desert Rangers and not the NCR Rangers.
Where are they? They are in the Mojave, in the various Ranger stations, deployed in some NCR camps (like Camp Golf and Camp McCarran), etc.
You seemed to have read too much in between the lines in Fallout 3 but you don't seem to have noticed things that are explicit in Fallout New Vegas.
Remember the statue you mentioned? It shows both Rangers:
NCR Ranger:
Desert Ranger:
We see them in many places in Fallout New Vegas.
EDIT: Just Ranger Stations we can find five different ones in the Mojave and one in Zion.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
The original NCR Rangers can also be found in Fallout 2 at Shady Shands. There's a Supe Mutant too, that's a bit off
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I'm not supposed to find that an awesome idea, aren't I? I mean, just imagine some of the survivors ending up becoming pathetic redneck shells of their former self and it gives me a giddy feeling of joy. It's an interesting angle to take it.
Also, @Risewild, yeah, I know that stuff. I'm saying I think they handled it incredibly badly in New Vegas because the merged NCR Rangers/Desert Rangers (which I refer to interchangably because they merged), seemingly have no ties to actual Nevada that we see other than a big statue.
Actually, they're both NCR Rangers in your pictures. Just to clarify it a bit: The first NCR Rangers looked like the one below that you called "Desert Ranger", while the Desert Rangers had those gas masks and dusters like the top one. The Desert Rangers and NCR Rangers united (the statues are a memorial to that), and now the veterans of the NCR Rangers wear armor similar to the Desert Rangers.There were two ranger groups that were unrelated before the events of Fallout New Vegas. The NCR Rangers and the Desert Rangers.
The NCR Rangers were volunteers and only a few would be able to complete the training to become a ranger, they were elite troops/scouts. The Desert Rangers were a group of survivalist and kinda law enforcing/vigilantism tough guys (they are based on the "Wasteland IP" rangers) that existed in Nevada, Arizona and Zion and they originate from the pre-war Texas Rangers.
Once the NCR rangers scouted Nevada they came into contact with the Desert Rangers and both signed a contract where the Desert Rangers would join in with the NCR forces in exchange for protection and help with the fight against the Legion.
Also american geography is definitely not my subject, but isn't Las Vegas in Nevada? The Nevada rangers are the Desert Rangers and not the NCR Rangers.
Where are they? They are in the Mojave, in the various Ranger stations, deployed in some NCR camps (like Camp Golf and Camp McCarran), etc.
You seemed to have read too much in between the lines in Fallout 3 but you don't seem to have noticed things that are explicit in Fallout New Vegas.
Remember the statue you mentioned? It shows both Rangers:
NCR Ranger:
Desert Ranger:
We see them in many places in Fallout New Vegas.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
And what about those fans of the original games who were actually excited about them? When Fallout 3 came about, it was the return of some old friends and familiar faces. The option of joining the Brotherhood of Steel was exciting because Fallout 2 didn't allow you to do that and certainly you never got the "full experience" of being a power armored badass slaughtering your way through the wasteland. The new combat mechanics combined with power armor and being able to be part of my favorite faction were a big selling point for me when I picked the game up.
When the Enclave actually arrived, I was like, OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!
It was a rush of awesome because they were my favorite Fallout villains! ALIVE AGAIN! Ready for me to kill them all over again! I mean, I'd heard John Henry Eden mention the Enclave in passing but I didn't think they'd ACTUALLY use them. I just assumed John Henry Eden would turn out to be an old robot or crazy old man running his own faction but NO, it was the ENCLAVE! Fallout's greatest villains.
It was the definition of fanservice.
The Outcasts are traitors who broke the Great Chain of the BoS. I always liked the fact they were ideologically pure but that meant bullshit because the Brotherhood of Steel is an authoritarian dictatorship. You have to obey your leadership even if you disagree with them because that's how feudal monarchies/militaries work.
I thought that was really clever.
Also, Elder Lyons was losing the war until you fixed it.
The thing is, what is kind of a confusion is that I'm not a guy for who Fallout 3 was my first Fallout game. No, I played Fallout 2 when it first came out and I was eighteen then later played Fallout 1. I knew the characters and the world so when I bought Fallout 3, I was excited about the prospect of actually playing in the world again. The thing was, I'd never played Oblivion and didn't know what to expect (and in fact didn't much care for the game when it arrived) but I fell in love with the shooter mechanics and wolrd they created.
It reminded me of everything I loved about the original games from Super Mutants to the Brotherhood of Steel to the Enclave. It reinvigorated a love of a franchise I thought was dead and buried.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
I did like the Outcasts a lot. Too bad they were left as an after thought. It would have been cool to see two BoS factions going up against each other. They could have left the Enclave out altogether really. The BoS would have been enough for fanservice. That and the Vaults and Ghouls.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I suppose I never considered the Outcasts an afterthought because I visited them a lot to bring them loot. I admit, I wasn't entirely happy with their handling not because I wanted them to be enemies but because I felt the story could have had a bit more to it.
For example, I really wanted to try and make the two sides reunite. Either through quests, speech checks, or both.
As such, they're welcome local color.
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TorontoReign
Guest
That is the thing though. There was nothing to it. It should have been one of the key points in the game. Yes, they should have had a few quests to reunite or destroy them, but as usually Bethesda didn't want to offer too many options for the player, or they might be locked out of questing.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I feel similarly about John Henry Eden. I feel he was an ultimately wasted character because I loved Malcolm McDowell's performance and was annoyed he had such a deranged motivation. Unlike Dick Richardson, he is taking the time to preach to the mutants so why would HE be the one to wipe them out?
Bad writing.
Autumn should be the racist.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
How do you think it should have been handled then? That happened in past events... Also, a lot more people mention that loss of independence of the Mojave.
Also, Fo3 is good becouse it has fanservice?
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I think they did it fine but I didn't think it needed to be slavishly devoted to what came before. Were I canon obsessed, though, I'd have given the Nevada Rangers a fortress or region formerly belonging to them. For bonus points, I'd probably replace Camp Searchlight with "Ranger Central Command" and that be the reason Caesar nuked it.
It doesn't hurt. I think a lot of people have a rosy colored view of the time period. Fallout had fallen out of the mainstream and F3 bought it back, hard.
Maybe Van Buren could have done the same but F3 reached many.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Have you not paid attention to what @Risewild said? Here:
As confirmed by the wiki:Risewild said:
Because of that, they don't need anything like a 'fortress' or whatever, because anything like that would just attract the attention of those hostile to them, and they need to be constantly moving from one hideout to another to enhance their vigilantism in the vast, unforgiving desert region of Nevada. Unlike the Desert Rangers of Wasteland franchise who really need to be organized, the Desert Rangers in Fallout deals with Raider gangs and hostile tribal, who would be constantly looking for victims/settlements to raid.
Also, 'region formerly belonging to them' would definitely be the many Camps dotted around Mojave Wasteland, and also probably some of the Ranger Station in Zion.
Again, they don't really need anything like 'that'. It's huge, easy target for infiltration (which the Legion is good at), and, again, at the time they were already fully merged and absorbed into the NCR Rangers, so, again, the many Camps dotting the Mojave Wasteland would surely be their former headquarters/central command.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
Yup
The thing about fanservice is that is only glaze, not mass. It's always cool to bring back that line, that character, that reference here and there. But only showing the things fans drooled over and saying: "You love it now give us your money" That happens most notably with Star Wars. Battlefront was basically fan porn.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Merely brought it back (and even tainting it with fanservice) is probably the worst thing to happen to any franchise, ever.
See: Dark Souls 3 for fanservice shit.
See: Dark Souls 3 for fanservice shit.
Yeah I placed the pics in the wrong position
. But still after your post I took a look at my one and yeah that was still the wrong pic for the Desert Rangers, you're right that is for the veteran ncr ranger. The right pic for desert ranger should have been this one:
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
It wasn't horrid, but it just felt so rancid. Added to the weak mechanics, I just don't enjoy it as much as any of the others. Oh well *keeps trying to get the 100% for DS2*
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Fanservice in small doses is fine. Building an entire game based on it? Not so much.