Should Fallout 3 be considered canon?

[CT Phipps]

I just noticed this. Care to elaborate which part NV retcons from previous games? Because this 'bunch of stuff' would mostly Obsidian having to put up and make due with what Beth have done.

I listed a bunch of stuff of which the Rangers were a part. The whole reason I mentioned them was as an example of "why retcons aren't a bad thing." Which kind of got in a weird place where people wanted to argue they weren't retcons and therefore my point was invalid.

But getting back onto the Fallout 3 is awesome train:

Honesty, I think Fallout 3 is where Bethesda really started to hit their crescendo in terms of making mechanics work with the game rather than compete with them. I think they did some truly great quests in the work like Tranquility Lane, the Wasteland Survival Guide, and the entirety of Vault 101's arc. Honestly, though, I think one of my favorite serious quests was the violin retrieval mission which didn't need any weird gimmicks but just was a simple tale of the Lone Wanderer going some place dangerous to preserve music.

I suspect I have a higher tolerance of the "wacky" in my Fallout because my ideal Fallout game is Fallout 2 versus Fallout 1. The strange stuff in the Wasteland is the appeal for me and I definitely consider Old World Blues the best of New Vegas' stuff with my biggest disappointment being the Weird Wasteland perk didn't add ENOUGH weirdness.

 

[MojaveMoproblems]

The strange stuff in the Wasteland is the appeal for me and I definitely consider Old World Blues the best of New Vegas' stuff with my biggest disappointment being the Weird Wasteland perk didn't add ENOUGH weirdness.

Finally I can agree with you. I love wacky shit in Fallout. I think New Vegas handled it extremely well with the perk. At the start I usually only pick 4-eyes or the agility one that makes you thin boned too, and then Wild Wasteland.

 

[Black Angel]

I listed a bunch of stuff of which the Rangers were a part. The whole reason I mentioned them was as an example of "why retcons aren't a bad thing." Which kind of got in a weird place where people wanted to argue they weren't retcons and therefore my point was invalid.

Except, your arguments doesn't really hit the mark if you wanted to provide an example that they were 'retcons'. Your complaint was there weren't enough mention or trace of their existence (which is false considering the NPCs told you about it and, as mentioned by @MojaveMoproblems, some DID mentioned that they were Desert Rangers. You probably missed them though) because there weren't any kind of 'fortress' (which is redundant considering they were survivalists and, therefore, would most probably be nomadic. However, they DO have some kind of 'fortress' or rather headquarters in form of the many Camps dotting the Mojave Wasteland, obviously) or 'region formerly belonged to them'. So, basically, your complaint is that there were lack of explanations. Thing is, lack of explanations =/= retcons.

If we are to compare it to what Beth have done, Beth's problem isn't just lack of explanations (as seen with Fallout 3 where in the East Coast, caps somehow became a currency too, but without anything to back it up like the Water Merchants did in Fallout 1, and then jet somehow making its way here too) but also retcons that doesn't even resulted in good story or whatsoever (as seen again in Fallout 3 where caps and jets somehow were locked in Pre-War safelock, with no sign of Raiders/Scavengers/Wastelanders having access to the safe). The problem with Beth's retcons then were turned up to eleven with Fallout 4, and it's clear even that they had no idea or creativity to work with the source material. Hell, I would say that it's in THIS case (of caps and jets locked in Pre-War safe) lack of explanations = retcons, because lack of explaining how jets made its way to the East Coast (and even locked in Pre-War safes) CAN only be explained by retcons, and it certainly doesn't even make good story.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm well aware of the laziness of Fallout 4's storytelling.

I've often complained about it.

 

[MojaveMoproblems]

and it's clear even that they had no idea or creativity to work with the source material. Hell, I would say that it's in THIS case (of caps and jets locked in Pre-War safe) lack of explanations = retcons, because lack of explaining how jets made its way to the East Coast (and even locked in Pre-War safes) CAN only be explained by retcons, and it certainly doesn't even make good story.

I had a problem with cap currency in FO3, I just assumed they were lazy. Maybe instead they shoulda used like penises for currency. Woulda made more sense.

 

[CT Phipps]

I had a problem with cap currency in FO3, I just assumed they were lazy. Maybe instead they shoulda used like penises for currency. Woulda made more sense.

Bottle caps are a perfect currency. They're shiny, abundant but not too abundant, and easily understood.

Certainly it was reprehensible they got rid of caps for bullshit NCR currency in Fallout 2.

 

[Black Angel]

I'm well aware of the laziness of Fallout 4's storytelling.

And those laziness existed in Fallout 3. Mainly in form of rehashes and fanservices.

Bottle caps are a perfect currency. They're shiny, abundant but not too abundant, and easily understood.

Not even a valid/enough explanation. Caps was backed up by water in the West Coast. In the East Coast?

Certainly it was reprehensible they got rid of caps for bullshit NCR currency in Fallout 2.

Bullshit? Are you fucking serious? Redding, mate? Gold mines?

 

[CT Phipps]

Who is the fucking idiot who wanted to return to GOLD? What a boring useless commodity in a survival orientated society.

As for who is backing up the CW's caps, we don't find out but we don't see a lot of the economy and world building of the place due to engine limitations.

Just that a functional one exists.

 

[Black Angel]

Who is the fucking idiot who wanted to return to GOLD? What a boring useless commodity in a survival orientated society.

Except, by Fallout 2, it's no longer a survival oriented society.

As for who is backing up the CW's caps, we don't find out but we don't see a lot of the economy and world building of the place due to engine limitations.

Yet Obsidian managed to work around the limitation just fine. At least with the whole economy and world building (answering a simple question like, "What do they eat?")

Just that a functional one exists.

Now this IS bullshit.

 

[Risewild]

Fallout 3 is one of the best games of all time and everything which made New Vegas better than Fallout 3 is building off the awesome that it was. It doesn't need defending by making other things worse.

I again ask, if Fallout 3 is one of the best games how come it has less than 900 players on steam this month while New Vegas has more than 5,000 players?
Why have New Vegas always had thousands of players more than Fallout 3 from the day it was released to today?
In terms of mods being made and released Fallout New Vegas beats Fallout 3 by thousands and while Fallout 3 had 19 new mods being released this month Fallout New Vegas had more than 90 being released.

Fallout 3 is one of the best games of all time for you. For me and for most people who prefer cRPGs even Morrowind and Daggerfall are better games from Bethesda, I think even some people will prefer Oblivion to Fallout 3.

Who is the fucking idiot who wanted to return to GOLD? What a boring useless commodity in a survival orientated society.

For the same reason ancient humans decided to use gold for coins and show of wealth:

For ancient Man, gold had unique properties which make it easy to acquire and work. It is usually found in a relatively pure state, which means it can be formed by hammering without needing to be annealed by heat treating. It was found often enough in pieces large enough to allow fabrication with the most basic tools. It is soft enough to work with relatively soft tools. It is (relatively) incorruptible, so it can be cast and recast without losing its properties, and does not tarnish. And it can be joined by fusing with simple technology.
Because of those properties, relatively uniform distribution, inherent beauty,high demand for adornment, religious uses (resembling the Sun) funeral goods (the torque pictured was buried about 1500 years without damage) and its compact size, it made an excellent trade good in high demand.

So gold is nonreactive. It doesn't corrode, so it doesn't lose value over time. Gold is also easy to work and shape at relatively low temperatures. And it's always been available relatively plentifully close to the surface - you can 'pan' for it, and it's pretty easy to mine.

 

[a721402]

Someone just have no idea how economy supposed to work...
You can't use say something is shiny then it can be currency, the items been used as currency must have it's own value, or been backed by something have more value, or backed by a trust worthy organization/government.
Caps itself have no actual value, it was backed by water in the west as we already know.
Fallout 2 caps become useless is simply because the west already rebuild enough and have an actual government around and have it's own currency.

What back caps in capital wasteland and commonwealth? Magic?

I hate mobile visual keyboard.

 

[MojaveMoproblems]

Magic?

it is bethesdick

 

[CT Phipps]

I again ask, if Fallout 3 is one of the best games how come it has less than 900 players on steam this month while New Vegas has more than 5,000 players?

This is where the weirdness of this forum confuses me. Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas are almost identical and what's good about the first is good in the second. F:NV is the better game (and thus also one of the best games ever made) but that's because of their similarities and good writing. Why I love F:NV is it has all that I loved about F3 but even more.

What a sequel should do.

The idea there's a competition is bizarre because it's like saying AC 2 is somehow fundamentally different than AC 1.

What back caps in capital wasteland and commonwealth? Magic?

Occam's Razor actually solves that. Caps have value because the merchants of the Capital Wasteland agree to accept them as a medium of exchange. Whether by mutual agreement or tradition.

 

[a721402]

Occam's Razor actually solves that. Caps have value because the merchants of the Wasteland agree to accept them as a medium of exchange. Whether by mutual agreement or tradition.

Excpet Occam's Razor have nothing to do with economy system, to be a currency, the item must have actual value or backed by either something have more value or a organization/government.
"Because [insert random theroy] so [insert something nonsense] just works!" is just another bold claim.

 

[CT Phipps]

Excpet Occam's Razor have nothing to do with economy system, to be a currency, the item must have actual value or backed by either something have more value or a organization/government.
"Because [insert random theroy] so [insert something nonsense] just works!" is just another bold claim.

Gold has no value whatsoever. It's valuable because it's a medium of exchange.

Same with paper money.

The gold standard was an idiot idea because credit works just fine.

 

[TorontoReign]

Gold has no value whatsoever. It's valuable because it's a medium of exchange.

Same with paper money.

The gold standard was an idiot idea because credit works just fine.

"Gold is the highly efficient conductor that can carry these tiny currents and remain free of corrosion"

It's a rare element used in electronics but it has no value?

 

[CT Phipps]

"Gold is the highly efficient conductor that can carry these tiny currents and remain free of corrosion"

It's a rare element used in electronics but it has no value?

That's not exactly been all that useful for the majority of history where it's been a source of wealth.

The source of its value is that it was too soft to use as an actual useful metal.

 

[TorontoReign]

That's not exactly been all that useful for the majority of history where it's been a source of wealth.

Not what we are talking about really.

 

[CT Phipps]

Not what we are talking about really.

I get that. What I'm saying is you don't need a centralized government to back up a currency in a region, which is what bottlecaps are, if they have enough merchants using it. Types of currencies have included knotted string, gold, copper, bronze, pieces of paper, and other useless things.

Indeed, barter systems are rare.

If bottlecaps are used in Rivet City and Megaton then they'd probably be used everywhere in the CW.

The Watcher Merchants back up it in Fallout 1 but it doesn't need to be water to do value but anything people want to buy.

 

[Walpknut]

Phipps doesn't care about logic in a society where people use notebanks and shiny rocks for currency.

How does a region where everybody survives off old packaged food and no water even manage to have a working currency? They only have 2 settlements with more than 2 houses and nobody seems to do anything with their time except for the guy who fixes Megaton's pump, but all the water there is still radiactive so he is also bad at his job.