SiCKO - See it today - Bring tissues and your passport?

[Maphusio]

Let me see...
oh hello this is my first post, i'm new here. I will present myself in the "welcome post" later, for now, i want to post here. And sorry for my bad english, i'm amateur on this, my raw language is spanish... of course i'm a "sudaca", or southamerican.

After have read all the post, i still can't conceive how mostly of the americans can believe that the payed education and healthcare is the only possible. Here in argentina, we have both free, and it's not the better of the world, but it's pretty good. I dare to speak that the public Superior education (i mean University) is better quality than the payed one...

So, how a country can get to this...

Any country can get to this if the Taxes go to education and healthcare, opposite to support a war, that is carry your country to industrial recession. Except for war industries.

Bingo pally, It's easy to do... but now, the US has dug itself a fairly sizable financial hole. Countries like China and Japan own a pretty good percentage of its debt; very little to any manufacturing and development goes on in the US so even less income is being brought in to pay off the debts.

We have debt up to our ears to the point there are advertisements on TV urging Americans to SAVE money instead of spend spend spend... What a time we live in.

I recall speaking to an anthropologist from Italy that was filled with murderous rage over the fact that there was not an education system in place in the great US of A matching that of Italys. That was my first experience with the concept of free higher forms of education (collage).

In an external Point of view, almost all that i see that come from Michael Moore, it's like the program, it's an "Awful truth".
I mean, when he goes to ask a businessman about a dark businesses, why can't he get answers, if MM is a liar?

I think many would argue that its not just Mr. Moore that is the liar. From what evidence I have seen proving he is deceitful I still tend to believe his core message. If even 50% of what he says is false... What about the rest?

I applaud you for taking on this topic as your first post. Places like NMA, you could get your cookie cooked in no time flat! This is the way of the wasteland of course.

 

[puszki]

Thank you very much Maphusio for your warm welcome.

I still don't know how people who played fallout (various times) can have that ideology,you need at least a little culture to play fallout, besides the game shows you the consequenses of your actions, and something has to be learnt of that...
I mean, c'mon guys, the cold war is over, now it isn't about Capitalism or Socialism, is about how EVERY person is touched by the Neoliberalism.
My point is that the Neoliberalism (or globalization whatever you like to call it) is making everything "Low Quality" in the world. Not only healthcare, or education, but the way of life of the people. Haven't you noticed that the most light work is now heavy duty.
Let's take an example:

-Now in the office work, you have work that should be done yesterday, but you can't even reach the one that were for the last week.
-In works like Construction, Engineering, etc. You have to watch most of the people around you, because in any moment they "can stab you in the back", or can steal you things.
-Most of the people that works have no social life, or have a social life that demands a lot of time, so they almost can't sleep.

And a lot of stuff like that. Living in the first world is like living in the third world with some technology.

you could get your cookie cooked in no time flat! This is the way of the wasteland of course.

Sorry, can you tell me what this means, i can't understand the expression

 

[Maphusio]

Honestly puszki... I don't know what that expression means... But it sounded great at the time!

 

[frei]

Some statistical information to further fuel the debate:
Poverty Rate Falls, but More Are Uninsured

 

[Zeal]

May I just say that I love the fact that I was born and raised in socialized Sweden.

We've got electricity, heating, "unlimited" water supply (hot and cold), frickin' 100 mbit broadband cables into half of swedens homes and we pay shit for it.

The chicks dude, dont forget about the chicks!

el_Prez]

..........

TL DNR

Sorry. Maybe its the alcohol in me right now but...
Sure America has problems.... however, In my lifetime - I will experience the bare minimum of the the U.S.'s cons. Maybe thats why I'm blindly patriotiic (I'm not but i can see how some might think so)

Thats like some gulag supervisor saying communism is great because HE has a great life...


Anyway, i belive Europe is a great place to live until you get a degree, and after you have it America is a great place to work on, except for all the violence and such...

I guess im moving to the netherlands, but i will walk around in a big jeep, no riding bike to work for me

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

el_Prez]

..........

TL DNR

Sorry. Maybe its the alcohol in me right now but...
Sure America has problems.... however, In my lifetime - I will experience the bare minimum of the the U.S.'s cons. Maybe thats why I'm blindly patriotiic (I'm not but i can see how some might think so)

Thats like some gulag supervisor saying communism is great because HE has a great life...

Well, if you live in a totalitarian state and your at the Top, of course its awesome for you.

I am far from the top of the society classification. I am lower middle class white male. There are millions just like me and they probably think along the same lines when it comes to American policies. America is awesome for ALL of us.

 

[Zeal]

America is awesome for ALL of us.

idd, one of the greatest countries in the world, and i myself am a true beliver in capitalism.

But its kinda like democracy, its the best system, but it is not perfect.

There is always room for improvement, and regarding medical assistence i belive America could have some tweaking...

I did not saw MM movie (cba to pay to watch sensionalism) but i have family there. I dont know by self experience how things are, but from what ive heard and from what i know that happens in Europe, i sure wouldnt like to be caught sick in there...

A single mom supporting 2 children not being able to pay medical bills in case of serious illness has nothing to do about socialism, it is a matter of humam rights imho...

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

A single mom supporting 2 children not being able to pay medical bills in case of serious illness has nothing to do about socialism, it is a matter of humam rights imho...

I don't consider free health care a human right.

 

[Maphusio]

el_Prez]

I don't consider free health care a human right.

...Wow... That sums it up right there... It's... It's mind boggling to hear anyone say that... What the fucking Christ is wrong with you?

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

el_Prez]

I don't consider free health care a human right.

...Wow... That sums it up right there... It's... It's mind boggling to hear anyone say that... What the fucking Christ is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. I wish everyone in the world was healthy and would stay healthy. But If something does happen to you - I don't believe that it's the world's responsibility to take care of you.

 

[Zeal]

Yeah, those kids should have planned better their future. I say insurance companies should start advertising in pre-school, i belive if a 3 year old get 2 jobs its enough to pay all expenses (thats a critical age with so many shots, not cheap i say...).

Oh wait, its their parents responsability to cover? But wait, they dont have enough money?! Well tough luck kid, this is america, everyone must carry his own weight...

You should have thought of that before borning...

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

You should have thought of that before borning...

Yeah, actually you should of thought of that. This is the 21st fucking century. Don't have kids if you can't fucking afford them. I'm sick of everyone blaming everyone else for their problems. Yeah it's nice to help other people but it shouldn't be other people's responsibility to improve YOUR quality of life.

 

[Maphusio]

el_Prez]Yeah it's nice to help other people but it shouldn't be other people's responsibility to improve YOUR quality of life.

I see you've learned nothing from Welsh's post on this topic? Why should we even have a government? Why should we even have a legal system? What are your views on social security? What are your views on the current state funded education system? What are your thoughts on fire, police and welfare? These are all examples of things you and I pay for in our taxes. These are examples of other people improving our quality of life.

You seem to be implying that the poor should not have a life like you and I. That they should grovel in their filth and leave children to the more well off individuals. Many of those people do not have a chance given our almost cast like system. The poor have just as much of a right as you or I. A good country is judged by how it treats its porrest (a quote right from SiCKO). What you are implying is NOT what this country is about. Bring me your poor, your rich, your huddled masses -What were they thinking when they said that?

Since the conception of socialized medicine it has been adopted by the majority of western countries. No countries system is perfect (including ours) but for your poor, your huddled masses, socialized is the way to go. My mother and father are part of the middle class. Now that they are in their mid 60's they can no longer afford health care. If anything were to happen to them, that would be it. I will have lost a father or a mother before they had the chance to see grandchildren. All because they were to poor or "irresponsible" for getting so old and not making enough...

The current democratic presidential candidates that are most likely to become our next president, have said their plan is to install socialized medicine in this country. If you are so adamant about keeping that insurance card... I suggest you start fighting... Then again, with as much faith as I now have in this country (Thank you George and others) I would not be the least bit surprised to see that president killed off.

 

[Zeal]

el_Prez]

You should have thought of that before borning...

Yeah, actually you should of thought of that. This is the 21st fucking century. Don't have kids if you can't fucking afford them. I'm sick of everyone blaming everyone else for their problems. Yeah it's nice to help other people but it shouldn't be other people's responsibility to improve YOUR quality of life.

You missing the point... Its still not the kids fault! Its not their fault their parents had them, its not their fault they are sick, its not their fault there is no money in that family...

no1 is saying there should be given freebies like there is no tomorrow, we are saying that there should be some kind of safefail mechanism to prevent those kind of situations. Noone should be denied medical assistance because he/she is poor.

Ofc cosmetic surgery and drugs are a completely diferent subject, but when dealing with human health (not matter if its a small or big think) we are all equal, "we the people" like you guys say over there

 

[Maphusio]

we are all equal, "we the people" like you guys say over there

Interestingly enough "we" was the hidden message or subtext to MM's SiCKO. We the people not I the individual.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

You missing the point... Its still not the kids fault! Its not their fault their parents had them, its not their fault they are sick, its not their fault there is no money in that family...

It's not the parents fault they had kids? It's not the parent's fault if the family has no money?

 

[Sander]

Should the kids be punished because their parents fucked up?

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

Should the rest of us have to pick up slack for all the shitty parents in the world? It sounds like the right thing to do but then your just going to get people who abuse the system. Thats why parents are so shitty these days - because they can get away with it.

 

[Maphusio]

el_Prez]Should the rest of us have to pick up slack for all the shitty parents in the world? It sounds like the right thing to do but then your just going to get people who abuse the system. Thats why parents are so shitty these days - because they can get away with it.

I agree with you. It is unfortunate there are those that would abuse ANY system. With that in mind understand any system we currently have in place has its abusers. That is the price you pay and in my opinion its a small one to pay.

On top of that, you didn't really answer any of my questions...

 

[xdarkyrex]

el_Prez]Should the rest of us have to pick up slack for all the shitty parents in the world? It sounds like the right thing to do but then your just going to get people who abuse the system. Thats why parents are so shitty these days - because they can get away with it.

What bothers you more, people abusing a system or people dying of preventable causes?

if you had to choose one or the other, which would you pick, stopping preventable deaths, or stopping abuse of the system?