so... anyone try the DLC yet?

Crni Vuk said:
That Bethesda gives now here so easily a explanation for a lot of the story (except intems!) and puts so much emphasis on it is in the same way totally dull and stupid as George Lucas explaining the origin of the "force" with midiclorians ... something that really should have been left in the "mist" if you know what I mean.
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I am sorry to say that you are sort of yelling to deaf people or some expression like that, really don't know a good one.

Some time ago I came to the discovery that people, well at least people of today, want everything explained to them.
The idea of using mystery of some kind or imagination is becoming a foreign and even alien thing.

Everything has to be answered, and preferably in stupid ways that are convoluted or make no sense.
People thrive on stupid.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I dont get this all "hate-the-chinese-cause-of-bombing" thing in Fallout 3 anyway.

Its not like in Fallout 1 there were so many everywhere references to either the chinese, the war in general, communism or the 50s feeling.

It wasnt even really important who started the war ...
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Exactly, and in Fallout 1, we get to see US troops executing resistance members to their invasion of Canada, so it's not like the US is the 'good guy' in comparison with China. The point is that war is a shit and everyone contributed to how the world ended up.

The war is best left as a kind of mythology for the descendants of its survivors, some ancient nightmare. It works better, than having some current geopolitics crammed into a dry blow by blow explanation of this event that created the Fallout universe.
 
Well, Bethesda tends to disagree. The main point of FO3 seems to be that US is awesome and if it goes to war it's always right.

Yay America!

Not that I'm against patriotism (I AM against excessive patriotism tho), but when it is presented in such a stupid way, and in a setting that has no place for it, well...
 
Erm, Anchorage is hardly FUCK YEAH AMERICA. I don't recall executing unarmed POWs being a good thing.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
I am sorry to say that you are sort of yelling to deaf people or some expression like that, really don't know a good one.

Some time ago I came to the discovery that people, well at least people of today, want everything explained to them.
The idea of using mystery of some kind or imagination is becoming a foreign and even alien thing.

Everything has to be answered, and preferably in stupid ways that are convoluted or make no sense.
People thrive on stupid.
Click to expand...
Well the reason why the second season of Twin Peaks had to be changed by its director cause the studio thought its "to complicated". Well the series was to intelligent for its own good. And loost over time what made it interesting in the first place.

Mikael Grizzly said:
Erm, Anchorage is hardly FUCK YEAH AMERICA. I don't recall executing unarmed POWs being a good thing.
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I did not played Anchorage. But I at least have the feeling that Fallout 3 in its core is overly positive in a lot of things also including the US and their politic around the war.

Of course it obvously is not ineherently "patriotic" I mean there are a lot of vault tests that obviously have not been all to good. But the game trys definetly to be overly political "correct" as much as possible. And thats the bad thing.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Erm, Anchorage is hardly FUCK YEAH AMERICA. I don't recall executing unarmed POWs being a good thing.
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Depends on which Americans you're talking about, a fair amount of the population wants to continue torturing "terrorists" (both POWs and "suspects") and around half want to keep the Guantanamo Bay complex doing business as usual. It's not the same as executing POWs but I'm sure there are some folks who're happy to see that as well. It all comes down to presentation as to whether the message is that it's an atrocity or the right thing to do, as I haven't played it or seen the executions, I can't say.
 
....of COURSE the game is going to be mostly pro-America. It takes place in the freaking Capitol of America. Everything you see in the game referencing the war prior to the nuclear holocaust is American-made propaganda. Sooooo Yes, Bethesda made it pro-America on purpose in documents and whatnot. Fits the bill just fine.

Also, there's the Enclave. Vile bigots to the core, but they send out broadcasts promoting themselves. Fits the bill.

There is also a broadcast giving the CHINESE the limelight of goodness. It was being broadcast prior to the Great War pre-emtively.

And if the game took place in China instead of the US? Even if Bethesda made it, the game would make them look all peaches and cream good.

And I have to ask, what exactly did Bethesda de-mistify? Seriously, i'm pretty sure everything Bethesda built the game and the DLC off of were all explained out in detail prior to Fallout 3. All Bethesda did was make it more prevelent in their game rather than in a document compilation on the internet (ala Fallout bible). The DLC shows some possible events in the retaking of Anchorage too, but that's because they wanted to do something other then adding to the Wasteland for one DLC.

And showing life before the bombs dropped? Everything you see is in simulations and can be disregarded on the simple grounds that they are inaccurate. According to previous game history, T-51bs were used to quell frequent revolts in the USA because of food shortages, everyone more or less suffered from constant Red Scares, and so forth. These are things that Bethesda did not show, but didn't disregard either. Simply put, they did NOT de-mistify anything.
 
nemetoad said:
That Bethesda gives now here so easily a explanation for a lot of the story (except intems!) and puts so much emphasis on it is in the same way totally dull and stupid as George Lucas explaining the origin of the "force" with midiclorians ... something that really should have been left in the "mist" if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

Great post. You said what I felt but didn't manage to say.
 
nemetoad said:
Not my quote >_> Seriously though, what was de-mistified?
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The background around the World in Fallout 3.

Look at the game and compare its presentation of the visuals directly to Fallout 1 or 2. Obvously we are not talking about "graphic" but more the value of the content. It has it reason when people say that the world of Fallout 3 looks like the bombs droped yesterday.

Another example. Notice the 50s hair styles a lot seem to have? Or the 50s clothes, Tenn Penny tower anyone? This are things I am talking about. And that are just small bits. Chinese broadcast for example. Bit pre war Robot that annihilates the Enclave (which as well play a reather very big role again ...), which seems to have a climax now with anchorage.

Were in Fallout 1 really that much of the 50s future vision present in the game? I cant recall any real havy influence anyway. As said it was a world under the surcace like burried in the ashes and sand. Probably if you spend in a decande some archaeological excavation you might find all of it. But the people of the waste did not know about it and did not really cared about it.

Of course you could find informations, references. But you had to search for it and to find it was most of the time some hassle. Like the GLow, Mariposa and the vaults. Or the Masters base.


I just have the feeling Fallout 3 is one big "misunderstanding" by Bethesda and some of their developers thinking that Fallout was only and mainly about its setting. Vaults and the 50s vision about pew-pew lazer guns and robots everywhere (even in the wasteland ...). But one should not forget ... Fallouts mechanics were chosen first and the setting later the first Fallout 1 tech-demo for comercial purpose (or something) was even set in a medival setting with a knjght in armor. The Setting was only the icing on the cake. Now Fallout 3 has a whole bowl of Icing. But I and others are missing the cake.
 
Crni Vuk said:
nemetoad said:
Not my quote >_> Seriously though, what was de-mistified?
Click to expand...
The background around the World in Fallout 3.

Look at the game and compare its presentation of the visuals directly to Fallout 1 or 2. Obvously we are not talking about "graphic" but more the value of the content. It has it reason when people say that the world of Fallout 3 looks like the bombs droped yesterday.

Another example. Notice the 50s hair styles a lot seem to have? Or the 50s clothes, Tenn Penny tower anyone? This are things I am talking about. And that are just small bits. Chinese broadcast for example. Bit pre war Robot that annihilates the Enclave (which as well play a reather very big role again ...), which seems to have a climax now with anchorage.

Were in Fallout 1 really that much of the 50s future vision present in the game? I cant recall any real havy influence anyway. As said it was a world under the surcace like burried in the ashes and sand. Probably if you spend in a decande some archaeological excavation you might find all of it. But the people of the waste did not know about it and did not really cared about it.

Of course you could find informations, references. But you had to search for it and to find it was most of the time some hassle. Like the GLow, Mariposa and the vaults. Or the Masters base.


I just have the feeling Fallout 3 is one big "misunderstanding" by Bethesda and some of their developers thinking that Fallout was only and mainly about its setting. Vaults and the 50s vision about pew-pew lazer guns and robots everywhere (even in the wasteland ...). But one should not forget ... Fallouts mechanics were chosen first and the setting later the first Fallout 1 tech-demo for comercial purpose (or something) was even set in a medival setting with a knjght in armor. The Setting was only the icing on the cake. Now Fallout 3 has a whole bowl of Icing. But I and others are missing the cake.
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So really, your complaint is that Bethesda tried to make the background to the world more apparent? *shrug* I can see your point there. Don't agree with it though, but I do think Bethesda made it too apparent in Fallout 3.

However, I gotta disagree with you about the 50's styled-things. First off, the hairstyles are too 50's? Er, then pretty much all the haircuts seen in Fallout 1 and 2 are that as well. Seriously, look at the talking heads from both games, I can gurantee you that most, if not all, can be re-created in Fallout 3. The exception would be Laura, which wouldn't be an exact replica. I believe' Nicole's haircut would be a bit taller too. But anyways... too 50's? Again, I also question this because of all the weird mostly-shaven haircuts too. The best example is the emo-styled bangs cut - is that 1950's styled? I don't think so.

And 50's-era clothing? It's seen quite a bit in Fallout 1 and 2 if you ask me, moreso in Fallout 2. The difference is in Fallout 1/2, you can't wear it. In Fallout 3, you can. So you're bound to run i nto it more in Fallout 3, but not Fallout 1 and 2.

And lastly, the whole "The bombs could have dropped yesterday!" feeling has been something I've felt since Fallout 1. overall things that survived all feel like they're in mint condition without any explanation, pre-nuclear devestation food and clothing exist in mint condition in many areas, just in the form of trade rather then in exploring ruins. And most of all, society does not feel at all desperately trying to survive. To me it always felt more like the nukes were a minor inconvenience then a life-changing and threatening event.

But eh. I can understand how you dislike all the history being easily reached and presented in Fallout 3. Though frankly a lot of flavor detailing exists in hard-to-get places then easily reached though. Just feels more like the stuff from Interplay's designs is easily found and the stuff Bethesda added in (personal histories of new characters and whatnot) needs to be seeked out instead.
 
Bethesda did not really added a lot to Fallout. To be eve more accurate almost nothing.

They just expaned the visuals. And tried to give more explanations.

The "talking Heads" of Fallout 1/2 in direct comparision with a lot of the Fallout 3 characters do not really pose any strong 50s reference in them. I mean just look at either Gizmo, Tandy (both young and old) or aradesh and tell me they have clear 50s hair cuts. Now obvously not "everyone" in Fallout 3 runs around with a 50s style hair cut. But its somewhat very prominent. Hell it was even hyped by Bethesda ... But anyway its a fact that Fallout 3 spends much more emphasis on the "this is the 50s feeling" along with the radio that always has 50s music in the background and overrepresentation of visuals and anything else.

The feeling of the bombs beeing a last week occurance comes from the enviroment runing almost in perfect shape. Cars exploding after a few shots, gas leaks in buildings, everywhere (really everywhere) runing electricity, unlooted equipment from weapons. to food and technology (no 5 min. away from a community ...). That was definetly not so present in Fallout 1 or Fallout 2.
 
Well I have given the DLC a try today and its one of the shortest expansions I have played, and pretty disappointing too.

All the remaining pseudo RPG elements have finally been dropped in favor of a more combat oriented experience but its something Operation Anchorage fails in in comparison to Half Life 2 for example.

The AI of the enemy is rather poor, but we already knew that, which results int most enemies running towards you to get 'up close and personal' which often makes most battles rather short.

Something I rather dislike in game is that the Chinese forces have such a limited diverse number of troops and equipment.
While the US has a large variety of equipment; weapons and armor, the Chinese have barely any unique stuff of their own, they don't even have the Gauss rifle which would somewhat equalize the War, being some kind of weapon against Power Armored US troops.
Can't the Chinese have some more unique weapons, armors and perhaps their own type or robots.

As a combat simulator the campaign is also rather poor, almost all targets are within walking distance from another, in reality the Chinese would probably have long got the brain storm of pulling troops and armor together and overrun the US base camp once and for all.

Regarding the strike team, think your companions, just as useful or useless, well at least they distract the enemy.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Erm, Anchorage is hardly FUCK YEAH AMERICA. I don't recall executing unarmed POWs being a good thing.
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I was talking about FO3 as a whole. FO3 is totally "fuck yeah America". One of the biggest reasons I really hated it. If FO1/2 was decadent, FO3 is overly patriotic. And, unlike in the aforementioned FO1 intro, I fail to see the sarcasm/irony behind those claims in FOr most of the time.
 
Crni Vuk said:
"talking Heads" of Fallout 1/2 in direct comparision with a lot of the Fallout 3 characters do not really pose any strong 50s reference in them. I mean just look at either Gizmo, Tandy (both young and old) or aradesh and tell me they have clear 50s hair cuts. Now obvously not "everyone" in Fallout 3 runs around with a 50s style hair cut. But its somewhat very prominent. Hell it was even hyped by Bethesda ... But anyway its a fact that Fallout 3 spends much more emphasis on the "this is the 50s feeling" along with the radio that always has 50s music in the background and overrepresentation of visuals and anything else.
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I have to agree here, the post-war population hasn't been raised and indoctrinated on 50s sensibilities as those in the Vaults, or those that had been alive before the war, they're simply surviving on what was left over.
There's no real reason for them to adapt the 50s culture so strongly as presented in many cases in Fallout 3, any situations in Fallout 1 or 2 that present these elements are limited to aesthetic, such as some clothing (Myron's look, gangsters of New Reno), or a few pieces of artwork (that is pre-war for the most part anyway), which are there as exactly that, an aesthetic.

But compare this to the random clusters of people who seem to have just lived in pre-war America a few years before the bombs dropped in Fallout 3.
Tenpenny Tower is an explicit example in this argument, it's in stark contrast to the majority of Fallout 1 or 2 where nearly every individual was a waster, scavenger, crass dirtbag or down on their luck slummer. There are few examples that say otherwise.
 
Oddball_E8 said:
anyone dare to?

i can only imagine its horrible, but it would be nice to have someone confirm my suspicions...
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I thought it was pretty cool, being able to command that squad, but during that... It felt kind of limited. It be pretty cool if we could use a Chimera tank. Also, the reward was fine, but 800 (MS?) points... Pshh...
 
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