So in the end, did the Super Mutants add to anything?

The Dutch Ghost

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
When Fallout 3 details were made public I was rather pissed about the fact that the Super Mutants would be the main enemy/one of the main enemies again, seeing as the Super Mutants were defeated in Fallout 1 and remnants of them were the main enemy in Fallout Tactics and Fallout POS.

One of the fears I had was that the entry of the Super Mutants would also include a Master v 2.0.
Still I was giving Bethesda little benefit of the doubt about the Super Mutants, thinking that we at least would be dealing with remnants of the Master' army.

I became more skeptical when I learned that these weren't actually the Master's old army but a new local group with a whole different origin.

Fallout 1 made it quite clear that all experiments with FEV were taking place at Mariposa, now we suddenly had a Vault were FEV experiments were taking place, something that BTW doesn't make any sense as it doesn't fit the Vault Experiment concept.

My question now is, in the end, was the inclusion of the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 other than them having appeared in FO1/FO2/FOT justified?

In my opinion, NO!

The Super Mutants didn't matter at all to the main quest/storyline and in the few roles they fit in the side quests they could just as easily be replaced with a different type of foe.

In fact, a different type of foe would have been preferred of instead of recycling an old Fallout idea yet again.

Your thoughts?
 
Sorry but you are stating the obvious TDG. I wish they had taken one of the more colourful enemies like tech worshiping Reavers (?) from fallout Tactics instead of Super(stale and over used cliche mutants. Then again they needed to recycle the ogre models, I mean they needed to show the new kids old relics of the story so thats why.
 
I'd have liked to see robots make an appearance.

The Behemoth from FOT still makes me shit my pants. The Fo3 one... not so much.
 
Nah cronicler, I just wanted to know what other people thought about it now that we have seen FO3 and all its DLCs.

Like you Mikael I would also have liked to see more robot types, but I would prefer that they are around military bases and such and not just wandering around in the wasteland. (I know that happened in FO3 but I removed them with a mod)

More colorful enemies would have been more interesting.

Would anyone have objected if the Lobotomites had appeared in FO3 and that the people kidnapped by them also undergo the surgery to turn them into new Lobotomites?

Edit: 'Lobotomites' and not 'Lobotmites'.
 
Hard to fear something that gets stuck on geometry. Where as those FoT behemoths were bleeding scary. The robots with the big rollers/flails on the front were pretty nasty as well.
 
In FOT you had to be lucky to survive Behemoth's shot (from its big, fucking gun that makes a bad ass fucking sound), so you had to think about a tactical approach to take it down.

With FO3's Behemoth you can just get inside a building (or a ruin of a building) and shoot him untill that retard is down. We also have VATS and a Fatman.

For the Super Mutants in the game, they probably brought them because they were in the previous games. Just like in the Max Payne movie, they put the slo-mo in the movie, only because it was in the game (and they screwed it up like Beth screwed up SM).

They could come up with something new, or use somethign more plausible from the previous games (like cronicler said- Reavers). Then the game would get more colours, less black and white stereotype (Super Mutants are ugly so it means they're evil).
 
Only the super behemoths were cool to fight. That "masters" addition with the DLC made them better fighters but still really bland.

There were no good mutant interactions, no humor with them, and the regular super mutants could be destroyed with a few swipes. They also held hunting rifles. Did this make not much sense to most of you? It was odd.
 
issue is if you would remove the Supermutants from Fallout 3 you could barrely call it Fallout anymore.

They have to use anything that was at least popular with Fallout 1 and 2 like magical apearance of Jet for example or it would just be Elder Scrolls after the Apocaplyse.

In the end the Supermutants in Fallout 3 did really not much considering how "important" they made them in talking before the game released. You know people had to strugle with them yeeears before the nice lovely Brotherhood started to build some bace in the Pentagon. Strange enough in the game almost no one ever talks about Supermutants in a way that you might think they are a real threat.

I wish Bethesda would have not chose to make them Super Orcs or Super Ogres and tried to give them some kind of society you could even interact with at some point, letz say you gain their thrust and they would allow you to trade with them, catch humans for them, betray the others. Open Megaton doors at night? Or undercut the citadel for them. I dunno, but anything that is more then siimple "evil evil!" "kill kill!"
 
Super Mutants were just there really. Just another enemy to fight and get stuff from. I mean, okay some were supposedly kidnapping people to dip in vats of FEV, but where were these vats (the vault, which doesn't fit)?

Also, why would these Super Mutants care? How would they know about the Master's plan? They are on the complete opposite end of the country (and not a small country at that), it's 200 years later, and they aren't even the same kind of Super Mutant. Sure, Super Mutants live a long time, and yes at the end of Fallout the west coast Super Mutants headed east, but we don't know how far or how long they survived. And if the west coast Mariposa mutants did make it all the way to D.C., shouldn't we see evidence of their presence and their efforts to establish new Super Mutants? As in, see perhaps a stray green Mariposa Super Mutant? Let's face it, the Fallout 3 east coast Super Mutant is damn stupid, with the exception of Fawkes, but we know that he had no part as a leader to command these stupid Super Mutants, so how would these east coast mutants even know about FEV or how to use it? They just don't seem to have the intelligence to understand FEV, or stick around and know to use it. They just seem to want to go out and kill things.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that in Fallout 3 the Super Mutants are just there for variety in enemies, they are big and scary, and it adds to the Fallout "credibility" (even if they don't really look, or act, like the big green Hulk-like mutants from the previous games).
 
Besides that I think Beth wanted to explain the state of the Eastern Cost settlements and underdevelopment of human society in DC.
I mean its 200 years after the bombs, in West cost u got NCR etc, and in Eastern cost u got what? - Arefu ? :D

So if u ask why, then Beth will tell u - Valut 87 Super Mutants, Pit Slavers, raiders, bandits, Talon company,etc - its too dangerous around DC for any big settlement to last more then few months, well maybe except Megaton and Rivert City.
To sum it up - maybe I'm wrong but I think they also reused SM so they can show had bad it is in the area F3 takes place. And to have excuse for, why they didn't make bigger, and more settlements.
 
Hauptmann said:
So if u ask why, then Beth will tell u - Valut 87 Super Mutants, Pit Slavers, raiders, bandits, Talon company,etc - its too dangerous around DC for any big settlement to last more then few months, well maybe except Megaton and Rivert City.
To sum it up - maybe I'm wrong but I think they also reused SM so they can show had bad it is in the area F3 takes place. And to have excuse for, why they didn't make bigger, and more settlements.
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Well, I would think that if a place that has been so hostile for 200 years that there really wouldn't be anyone left there. I mean, there aren't that many people left to begin with after the war, but the place is filled with people, animals, mutants, and robots. If it was such a bad place, these things would surely die off after so much time, leaving basically nothing, save perhaps animals and scarce wanderers.
 
after my "Chinese Ramnants HUH?" topic, my conclusion is this:

Bethesda: OMG THERE IS SUPAH MUTANTS IN FO1 AND FO2, LETS PUT THEM IN FO3 FOR THE SAKE OF EPICNESS AND AWESOMENESS, YEAH!!!!!

this doesnt makes any sense, just like why mutants are STILL alive (and violent) despite being 200 years without leadership
 
BR4ZIL said:
after my "Chinese Ramnants HUH?" topic, my conclusion is this:

Bethesda: OMG THERE IS SUPAH MUTANTS IN FO1 AND FO2, LETS PUT THEM IN FO3 FOR THE SAKE OF EPICNESS AND AWESOMENESS, YEAH!!!!!

this doesnt makes any sense, just like why mutants are STILL alive (and violent) despite being 200 years without leadership
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If my understanding is correct, V13 the fallout MMO is in development by the same company who made the original Fallout games...

Explain this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:Project_V13_screenshot1.jpg

That is CLEARLY a Super Mutant. There not all gone!This alone tells me that the mutants weren't meant to be in just two games and be done with, if only going by Interplay games.

The mutants were such a unique enemy Obsidian (in fallout 3) felt the need to include them. I can see wanting to experiment with mutants being a worthwhile endeavor to want to try it out on two different spots; these mutants were different from the others anyway.
 
That is CLEARLY a Super Mutant. There not all gone!This alone tells me that the mutants weren't meant to be in just two games and be done with, if only going by Interplay games.
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I didint said super mutants were supposed to be only in the first 2 games, but in FO3 they dont give any reasonable explanation why they are there (and as i said before they wouldnt be alive and hostile after 200 without leadership).

No problem with super mutants in Project V13 (but i hate MMO's anyway) as long as they give us some explanation (again, Project V13 is cannon so mind that).
 
Nobody said that the super mutants were supposed to all be gone after Fallout 2. But what was the point of adding Vault 87 as another place of origin for super mutants, in addition to Mariposa?

The mutants were such a unique enemy Obsidian (in fallout 3) felt the need to include them.
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Obsidian had nothing to do with Fallout 3.

And Project V13, based on the Seattle concept art, likely takes place much closer to where the original games were set, so it makes sense for some Mariposa super mutants to end up there.
 
I meant Bethseda, not Obsidian, whoops. ;/

I kinda feel as if they didn't want them to play a significant role and reduced them to your everyday encounters. They don't have a big back story, just as the dogs, scorpions etc don't.

I'd say that one place was just not big enough to experiment with the FEV and so they wanted an alternate location with a slightly different strand so as to make the mutants orange and the process by which the transformation occurs turning them violent, as Fawkes stated.

Their point? Go out and find some more of the FEV to make more mutants. This could be a built in effect of this alternate strand of FEV to want to propagate the world in mutants, to ensure humanity's survival,as mutants are far more resilient to a post apocalyptic world than any human.
 
Hm.. I'm colorblind, i didn't know the muties in F03 were orange. Had I known that I woulda laughed and immediately threw my computer through the window.

But I can see green, just not red pigments (suprised I missed this one) and did notice though that the new mutants did not resembled Marcus. Because THEY WERENT GREEN! duh?

Dude their was no alternative strand, there was no alternative location to these experiments. Bethesda nigger-rigged(no offense, my president is black so its cool) a war between a background-less enemies against f01&2 crony BOS.. add in a pinch of Enclave at the end and you have steaming pile of writing garbage.

Personally, I'd of like to of seen a remnant wave destroy towns as they moved in the D.C., and maybe the local, poor chapter of BOS is thrown in crisis against this new Master Army remnant wave.

FUCK, why would one even want to fight after living for 200 years? I'm pretty sure I'd just sit around and wait to die, idk Fallout: NV better not have super mutants as the main story/enemy or I'm going to chuck a brick at Herve Cain FOR REAL

haha; i'm just kidding Herve, being named that is bad enough! ROTFLMAO!!!!
 
Syphon said:
Hm.. I'm colorblind, i didn't know the muties in F03 were orange. Had I known that I woulda laughed and immediately threw my computer through the window.

But I can see green, just not red pigments (suprised I missed this one) and did notice though that the new mutants did not resembled Marcus. Because THEY WERENT GREEN! duh?

Dude their was no alternative strand, there was no alternative location to these experiments. Bethesda nigger-rigged(no offense, my president is black so its cool) a war between a background-less enemies against f01&2 crony BOS.. add in a pinch of Enclave at the end and you have steaming pile of writing garbage.

Personally, I'd of like to of seen a remnant wave destroy towns as they moved in the D.C., and maybe the local, poor chapter of BOS is thrown in crisis against this new Master Army remnant wave.

FUCK, why would one even want to fight after living for 200 years? I'm pretty sure I'd just sit around and wait to die, idk Fallout: NV better not have super mutants as the main story/enemy or I'm going to chuck a brick at Herve Cain FOR REAL

haha; i'm just kidding Herve, being named that is bad enough! ROTFLMAO!!!!
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It's posts like these which why I was a huge lurker here, can we not talk about this civilized? Fallout 3 is canon, whether any of us like it or not.

With that said you have not contributed to this thread so much as you posted to say, "LOLZ FALLOUT 1 +2 > FALLOUT 3/YOUR MOM/LIPHE/DAWG. FALLOUT 3 NEVER HAPPENED"

I've played the original Fallout games... and I've played Fallout 3. I like them.
 
think about it what happens when you remove all the Super-Orcs from Fallout 3 though. I mean in my eyes if you forget about the 50s design for a moment you have here and there (which is sometimes over the top in my oppinion) and remove the Mutants, what is left from this game you could even somewhat call Falloutish? Not much in my eyes, as said.
 
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