So, is the Sole Survivor a Synth or not?

[Walpknut]

Are Synth actually a big deal on the plot? other than the Major of Diamond City, who proceed to do fuck all the whole game and a plot twist with a boring companion in the BOS quest line that affects nothing, when did the Synths even felt like important parts of the story? Never.

 

[DR_LaZer]

Arthur Maxson and Danse have a major dust-up over it because they're brothers in spirit if not blood yet Arthur's ideology says Danse has to die.

I'm going to stop you right there and tell you how you're so wrong right now.

By no means is the dishonorable Maxson and metal man Danse brothers in spirit or blood, or any other sense of the word. Maxson was ready to shoot Danse on sight because of the sudden implication that Danse might be a synth. That's not the way of a Brotherhood. That's the way of an insane cult like the Children of Atom. I'm not saying Maxson should've instantly spared Danse, but if they were a Brotherhood forged in Steel I know he wouldn't've been killed at all.

I know you can convince Maxson to not kill Danse, but that's with your silver tongue. It's with you pleading and begging him not to kill him.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm going to stop you right there and tell you how you're so wrong right now.

By no means is the dishonorable Maxson and metal man Danse brothers in spirit or blood, or any other sense of the word. Maxson was ready to shoot Danse on sight because of the sudden implication that Danse might be a synth. That's not the way of a Brotherhood. That's the way of an insane cult like the Children of Atom. I'm not saying Maxson should've instantly spared Danse, but if they were a Brotherhood forged in Steel I know he wouldn't've been killed at all.

I know you can convince Maxson to not kill Danse, but that's with your silver tongue. It's with you pleading and begging him not to kill him.

Okay, I actually am pretty hard on Arthur Maxson as at best he's a teenager pretending to be a man and the puppet of the Lost Hills Elders. At worst, he's a racist psychopath who has delusions of being Alexander the Great and King Arthur all rolled into one who has decided to launch a genocidal campaign to conquer the world. HOWEVER, the circumstances of executing Paladin Danse are a lot more nuanced than that.

Arthur knows Synths are people who can replace human beings and act like them. That's their entire point. They exist to be body snatchers. They have data brought to the Brotherhood, stolen from the Institute, which confirms Danse is an infiltrator or appears to. As far as Arthur knows, his good friend has been murdered and replaced. Either that or he's been played. It's a security risk of a massive order.

The idea that someone erased a Synth's memory, dumped them in Rivet City with fake memories, and they joined the Brotherhood is a big violation of Occam's Razor.

 

[Walpknut]

The worst bit about Danse is that his Backstory involves his friend getting turned into a Super Mutant because they were "too late", aparently they waited a full 2 weeks to go rescue him, they should've been surprised he wasn't dead. Then Again Fallout 4 is on Below Fanfic level writting.

 

[DR_LaZer]

They have data brought to the Brotherhood, stolen from the Institute, which confirms Danse is an infiltrator or appears to. As far as Arthur knows, his good friend has been murdered and replaced. Either that or he's been played.

Wrong, again. The data that was brought to the BoS showed that Danse was built on the same day he appeared at the BoS, last I checked. With this new flimsy evidence brought to light, the instant implication is that the Danse they've known and loved for so long has always been a synth, and hasn't been the Danse they loved replaced with one. This is why I don't see them as a Brotherhood. To cast off one of their own at the implication of being a synth doesn't seem Brotherly to me.

And even then, kill on sight orders are very extreme. It'd be better to capture him and bring him in for questioning. Maybe run some tests to see if he IS a synth or not. But no, at the sudden implication of synthiness he must be murdered, so sayeth the Cult Of Steel.

 

[CT Phipps]

The worst bit about Danse is that his Backstory involves his friend getting turned into a Super Mutant because they were "too late", aparently they waited a full 2 weeks to go rescue him, they should've been surprised he wasn't dead. Then Again Fallout 4 is on Below Fanfic level writting.

I'm not sure there was much in the way of surprise that he wasn't alright. I think it was the fact he was a Super Mutant.

Wrong, again. The data that was brought to the BoS showed that Danse was built on the same day he appeared at the BoS, last I checked.

Starts at 0:17.

With this new flimsy evidence brought to light, the instant implication is that the Danse they've known and loved for so long has always been a synth, and hasn't been the Danse they loved replaced with one. This is why I don't see them as a Brotherhood. To cast off one of their own at the implication of being a synth doesn't seem Brotherly to me.

M7-97 is not a member of the Brotherhood as he, according to Arthur Maxson, is not a person and joined under false pretenses.

And even then, kill on sight orders are very extreme. It'd be better to capture him and bring him in for questioning. Maybe run some tests to see if he IS a synth or not. But no, at the sudden implication of synthiness he must be murdered, so sayeth the Cult Of Steel.

They have the DNA evidence he's a Synth. Also, since when has the Brotherhood ever erred on the side of caution and restraint? They wiped out the Followers of the Apocalypse on the IMPLICATION they might have learned Brotherhood secrets.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Are Synth actually a big deal on the plot? other than the Major of Diamond City, who proceed to do fuck all the whole game and a plot twist with a boring companion in the BOS quest line that affects nothing, when did the Synths even felt like important parts of the story? Never.

Not to but he isn't a synth either, the game classes him as a human. My argument is that for example, in the game Morrowind, you have Silt Striders, it's implied that they move about, but even in Dragonborn DLC they don't, it is the illusion that they "Do more stuff when you're not looking." In the Construction set they are static. meaning that one can argue that they do not actually move. This is my argument. If Bethesda didn't include ANY gen 3 synths in the game and just had NPC's say "I'm a synth" or "That guy is a synth" You could also say that they are high on rads and imagining the whole thing. It's an excuse Bethesda and fanbois use to make a poop in the middle of your living room floor seem more interesting. NPC dialogue isn't lore, just like load screens aren't lore. All y'all are doing is arguing really bad writing to cover up really bad writing.
Edit: Oops, wrong guy

It's a matter of lore rather than gameplay perspective.

Bad writing is not lore, dialogue is not lore. When Preston says "another settlement needs your help", indefinitely, does that mean that in lore every settlement needs the players help. In lore the player helps 30 settlements on repeat? Does it mean that in lore zombies come back to superduper mart infinite times and raider lock the doors of corvega every 7 days with a new batch of raiders? Does it mean that when you take that teddy bear that someone puts one there a week later in the same spot. You are arguing piss poor dog shit writing. Stop being a filthy casual.

Is it lore that Sturges can't hack a novice computer to get a fusion core that are literally everywhere including dumpsters? Is it lore that he can also hack the Institutes data base that is above the players hacking ability?

Is it lore that Mamma Murphy killed a Death claw with one bullet in her gun. Man I've met some stupid in my days but you take the cake.

 

[DR_LaZer]

Starts at 0:17.

I see. It appears that I have misremembered the scenario. From what I remember it was head Paladin I don't remember his name who said it was just a build date. I hadn't recalled the part about the DNA match. My mistake. However, in light of this new evidence my stance has by no means changed. Sure, my part about the evidence being flimsy at best is incorrect, but the part of how the dishonorable Maxson not being a Brother to Danse has not changed.

Main part being how he DIDN'T work for the Institute, he defected from them. It was shown on a list of escapees/MIA synths that he is one of those missing synths. To think, it's like defecting from ones own nation to help anothers cause. Almost brings a tear to my eye. Which is more than I could say for Maxson. God I hate his VA. But that's a separate problem from this one.

Even then, he seems more sorry for you for having to kill your mentor, with little regard for Danse himself.

M7-97 is not a member of the Brotherhood as he, according to Arthur Maxson, is not a person and joined under false pretenses.

He still uses the line "Even if it means executing one of our own." synth or not, that right there to me proves the not brotherhood in this Brotherhood. The thought of executing one of their own is NOT something The Brotherhood of Steel would do, eastern or Western. At least, not on the example of the circumstances of ones birth.

If they did something direct like leak information, jeopardize the entire chapter, or went nuts and killed other Brothers. That's understandable. But for something like this, to follow their insane religious like way of doing things and kill one of their own makes me see them as a cult and not a brotherhood.

Also, since when has the Brotherhood ever erred on the side of caution and restraint? They wiped out the Followers of the Apocalypse on the IMPLICATION they might have learned Brotherhood secrets.

I also do not recall nor can I find any information as to when they apparently wiped out The Followers of the Apocalypse. If you would be so kind as to source that, I would be most grateful.

Secondly, they showed caution and restraint when they didn't want to attack The Super Mutant Army until The Vault Dweller told them that they might be a threat. Or when after Elder Elijah screwed the pooch with Helios and they went underground, barely interacting with the outside world.

 

[Izak]

The SS had memories of stuff happening prior to the war which are validated by a few ghouls (Vault-Tec Ghoul dude and Superhero Ghoul dude). Unless the Institute planted those two, which is ridiculously unlikely, the SS is a human.
Bethesda chose awful initials for their main character.

 

[CT Phipps]

I also do not recall nor can I find any information as to when they apparently wiped out The Followers of the Apocalypse. If you would be so kind as to source that, I would be most grateful.

3:00

 

[Izak]

Hey, CT Phipps, you're a real damn hero finding videos for all this bullshit (this is like the 4th you've used as a source). You must have wasted a lot of time watching this crap.

 

[Hassknecht]

Not to but he isn't a synth either, the game classes him as a human. My argument is that for example, in the game Morrowind, you have Silt Striders, it's implied that they move about, but even in Dragonborn DLC they don't, it is the illusion that they "Do more stuff when you're not looking." In the Construction set they are static. meaning that one can argue that they do not actually move. This is my argument. If Bethesda didn't include ANY gen 3 synths in the game and just had NPC's say "I'm a synth" or "That guy is a synth" You could also say that they are high on rads and imagining the whole thing. It's an excuse Bethesda and fanbois use to make a poop in the middle of your living room floor seem more interesting. NPC dialogue isn't lore, just like load screens aren't lore. All y'all are doing is arguing really bad writing to cover up really bad writing.
Edit: Oops, wrong guy


Bad writing is not lore, dialogue is not lore. When Preston says "another settlement needs your help", indefinitely, does that mean that in lore every settlement needs the players help. In lore the player helps 30 settlements on repeat? Does it mean that in lore zombies come back to superduper mart infinite times and raider lock the doors of corvega every 7 days with a new batch of raiders? Does it mean that when you take that teddy bear that someone puts one there a week later in the same spot. You are arguing piss poor dog shit writing. Stop being a filthy casual.

Is it lore that Sturges can't hack a novice computer to get a fusion core that are literally everywhere including dumpsters? Is it lore that he can also hack the Institutes data base that is above the players hacking ability?

Is it lore that Mamma Murphy killed a Death claw with one bullet in her gun. Man I've met some stupid in my days but you take the cake.

Arguing with gameplay mechanics is not really all that useful. The game's races (and in other games classes) are there for stat-reasons and to define what model and animation sets they have. Gen 3 synths are indistinguishable from humans, so they are human race in game mechanics.
Could someone check what race non-feral ghouls like Sinjin are in the CK?
Anyway, the Sole Survivor isn't a synth. It makes no sense at all, unless one pretends that Father is completely mental and everyone else is, too.
The SS talks about the past quite a lot, that talk with DiMA was just idiotic and a shoddy attempt to be "deep" or "thought provoking", falling flat on its face because Emil can't write shit.
This whole "is the player a synth" thing could have been great, though, I wrote about it before...

 

[Crossfire]

No, the player character isn't a synth. What purpose would that serve?

 

[3160b0]

I'm with Dimah that he or she is a Synth.

The fact that it's impossible to bring up memories older than the day the bombs fell, like you do elsewhere in the game, invalidates that whole conversation. Until any evidence is brought to show otherwise, the PC is human.

Here's a much better theory, DIMA is bullshitting you about being a synth to trick you into being sympathetic to their cause so you don't immediately start shooting when the opportunity arises. He's a sociopath, proven by his hidden memories, which is fitting because he's a jury-rigged prototype robot that even the Institute wanted nothing to do with.

 

[Izak]

No, the player character isn't a synth. What purpose would that serve?

It would make the lack of the .223 pistol even more insulting.