So what lore has Bethesda done gone fucked up?

[ElderMaxson]

So. Eddie Winters. He injected himself with radiation pre-war and turned into a ghoul. Yup. And Hancock? Rad drugs, far out man. Ghoul. So according to Bethesda, any radiation from any source = ghoul.

They wanted to play into the pre war thing, Bethesda really doesnt like the post apoc, they want to do pre war stuff... Look at anchorage or the cast of mothership zeta, they want to do wacky scifi 50s chaos and Fallout 4 is as close as they can get to it, ugh

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Entire theory of DarkCorp is crap.

2077 MarchPrepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the president and the Enclave retreats to remote sections around the globe and make contingency plans for continuing the war."

How they can be low-tier politican if they have president himself with them, and ALL the best technological stuff from USA? : | (not even counting post-war nukes, vaults, manufactures and all outposts)
The only thing outside Enclave control was House empire.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Entire theory of DarkCorp is crap.



How they can be low-tier politican if they have president himself with them, and ALL the best technological stuff from USA? : | (not even counting post-war nukes, vaults, manufactures and all outposts)
The only thing outside Enclave control was House empire.

Actually it makes a lot of sense. Also just because there's the President doesn't mean they're rulers of the universe. The President has too many times been a puppet or weak figure, hell Washington who considered the first president had very little political impact and yet for some reason he was chosen over Franklin, Adams and various more suitable candidates. Wow, first time hearing that the Enclave controlled the Vault experiments and nuclear weapons! Sure they can know about them but where in the games does it say the Enclave had control over their construction and experiments?

Which doesn't make sense because if the Enclave is so powerful why can't they control House? This isn't a matter of great intellect, because the government has total power and could put House into a 'witch' trial, perhaps for false treason. By witch I mean insanely unfair. What kind of idiot would allow for a country like business (Robco is fucking everywhere) that has it's own bloody army? A corrupt government possibly, but one so organized as the Enclave Bethesda want's us to see (I mean sure they were dumb but you get my meaning) wouldn't give a damn?

 

[DarkCorp]

Any information I got pre-war was GNN transcripts from SAD, which Avellone nullified. Unless it's from bible which is contentious.

Anyways, the chinese must be truly incompetent if they had no idea where the president was and couldn't find out.

Lastly, I was saying the pre-war president, joint chiefs, cabinet, were NOT Enclave. They STILL would get the best stuff.

And I have already detailed how even rich folks, could win GENERALS from all branches of the armed services on their side. These generals have men, power armor, energy/heavy weapons, maybe atleast one V-Bird prototype.

 

[Ceratisa]

Was jet mentioned? I always thought jet had been forgotten after Fallout 2 because Myron gets stabbed in the Den.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Was jet mentioned? I always thought jet had been forgotten after Fallout 2 because Myron gets stabbed in the Den.

Yep Jet was mentioned. Duh, it's Bethesda.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Lastly, I was saying the pre-war president, joint chiefs, cabinet, were NOT Enclave. They STILL would get the best stuff.

But even developer HIMSELF is saying that pre-war president was the Enclave, so you can't deny it.
Even developer himself said that Enclave as post-war continuation of USA-Government went on Oil-Rig FEW MONTHS before the war, to continue it...
And it just one quote.

Even Saywer himself was saying that Enclave was shadow government/Grey Eminence of USA before the war...
Heres the link:
http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/400374281663441270
But because it's out, you can see in this post, that you're completely wrong.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/the-misunderstanding-that-is-the-enclave.202704/ (second post in this thread)

So both Avellone/Saywer saying that Enclave has the power to rule pre-war, and youre still going no, no, no, USA goverment wasn't controlled. :F

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hmm, it does look bad for the theory even though it makes much more sense. What's the point of the enclave being the official government... when the fucking government still exists?

 

[DVL]

Was jet mentioned? I always thought jet had been forgotten after Fallout 2 because Myron gets stabbed in the Den.

The Mordinos are Myron's sponsor and are the ones who built his drug lab. There's no reason they wouldn't go on making it. Even if the Chosen One annihilated them, there's the possibility that the other New Reno families would try and grab the market.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Hmm, it does look bad for the theory even though it makes much more sense. What's the point of the enclave being the official government... when the fucking government still exists?

It's simple. Because they're hidden. They're doing it from shadow. Grey eminence. Basically, if some group of people with a lot of influences could have the power... i see no point in no going this way. And look at our world. It's happening everywhere. If someone can be higher in world hierarchy, he will surely go for it.

And thanks to being hidden organisation, they could escape chinese damnation. They could interfere vault experiment for their own. They could have the best technology in the entire world, to have a chance to revive USA (in some way) post-war.

Was jet mentioned? I always thought jet had been forgotten after Fallout 2 because Myron gets stabbed in the Den.

Jet in New California (and in Mojave) became just another normal drug because cure for it became widespread and after Myron (and later Mordino) disappearance there was no faction, which has monopoly for it. And it was Myron (such genius), who got completely forgotten by post-war society.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It's simple. Because they're hidden. They're doing it from shadow. Grey eminence. Basically, if some group of people with a lot of influences could have the power... i see no point in no going this way. And look at our world. It's happening everywhere. If someone can be higher in world hierarchy, he will surely go for it.

And thanks to being hidden organisation, they could escape chinese damnation. They could interfere vault experiment for their own. They could have the best technology in the entire world, to have a chance to revive USA (in some way) post-war.


Jet in New California (and in Mojave) became just another normal drug because cure for it became widespread and after Myron (and later Mordino) disappearance there was no faction, which has monopoly for it. And it was Myron (such genius), who got completely forgotten by post-war society.

But they're literally trying to hide the American government in your version, not some small group of powerful people who have influence in the government but don't form the whole thing. And the Chinese who seem to have a fair amount of spies don't know?

 

[DarkCorp]

If the Enclave were the legitimate CoG, then thats not exactly doing a good job being secret.

The entire top tier of govrnment is a lot of people, elected officials I might add.

The Enclave: A shadow government that runs the U.S. without the knowledge of the people. Consists of the president, senate, congress, etc, the very same people whom face intense public scrutiny everyday.

So we have elected officials that are essentially dictators that do not listen to their constituents. It's not hiding when you openly say, "fuck the people, I am going to do what I want.”

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yeah, I find it a bit weird that the there's a secret government... for the government... which is made up of the government... does that sound stupid to anyone?

 

[Wepwawet]

I am actually confused about the vault-tec guy. Assuming that he was insta-ghoulified after the bombs dropped, why isn't he a feral ghoul after 200 years? If he isn't feral, then there should be no ferals in the fallout universe. After all these years of living and all the radiation, he managed to survive in perfect condition as a sane ghoul?

 

[Dr Fallout]

I am actually confused about the vault-tec guy. Assuming that he was insta-ghoulified after the bombs dropped, why isn't he a feral ghoul after 200 years? If he isn't feral, then there should be no ferals in the fallout universe. After all these years of living and all the radiation, he managed to survive in perfect condition as a sane ghoul?

I don't know... it just works?

 

[DVL]

Was it ever clear what caused ghouls to degenerate into ferals?
I was under the impression that it was just based on a genetic risk factor and could be triggered by too much exposure to radiation.

So you have a percentage of the population that has a genetic x-factor that makes them prone to ghoulification. A percentage of those potential ghouls have a y-factor that makes them at risk for going feral. Then throw in a complicating factor where different individuals may simply respond differently to different doses of radiation. This opens up the possibility that the y-factor may really be a genetic a-factor, b-factor, orange-factor and so on. Then heap on the question of whether there are ghouls that have a biological clock before they go feral.

What you end up with is:
"What the fuck is any of this shit really?

There are no canon instances of anybody scientifically studying this problem.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Was it ever clear what caused ghouls to degenerate into ferals?
I was under the impression that it was just based on a genetic risk factor and could be triggered by too much exposure to radiation.

So you have a percentage of the population that has a genetic x-factor that makes them prone to ghoulification. A percentage of those potential ghouls have a y-factor that makes them at risk for going feral. Then throw in a complicating factor where different individuals may simply respond differently to different doses of radiation. This opens up the possibility that the y-factor may really be a genetic a-factor, b-factor, orange-factor and so on. Then heap on the question of whether there are ghouls that have a biological clock before they go feral.

What you end up with is:
"What the fuck is any of this shit really?

There are no canon instances of anybody scientifically studying this problem.

I just think it's mental degradation. The effects of too much radiation or damage to the head could cause it, decaying nerves and creating loss of senses. Seems to be actually quite rare.

 

[DVL]

Right, but ghouls didn't die to the radiation the first time.
You have to assume that there's a protective mechanism somewhere.
It's the nature of that protection against that degradation that's the interesting scientific question. How does it work? When does it work? When doesn't it work? How has it? Who doesn't? Do some people have more? Do some people have less?

You might also be suggesting the possibility of a "cognitive reserve" similar to what protects some individuals against Alzheimer's. And that's basically under the umbrella of one of the above questions.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Right, but ghouls didn't die to the radiation the first time.
You have to assume that there's a protective mechanism somewhere. It's the nature of that protection against that degradation that's the interesting scientific question. How does it work? When does it work? When doesn't it work?

Doesn't have to be radiation. Chems, bullet wounds and gas can all help take it's part in doing so. Anything that can have a negative effect could help the process. Perhaps it's a gradual thing, decided by the environment? For example, a ghoul living in a toxic zone would become feral much earlier, then a ghoul living in the civilized confines of Broken Hills.

 

[DVL]

Doesn't have to be radiation. Chems, bullet wounds and gas can all help take it's part in doing so. Anything that can have a negative effect could help the process. Perhaps it's a gradual thing, decided by the environment? For example, a ghoul living in a toxic zone would become feral much earlier, then a ghoul living in the civilized confines of Broken Hills.

An excellent point, so you see exactly where I'm going with this. Like, okay, that ghoul had a concussion a couple years back? Is he more at risk now? Is it negligible? Is it different for different ghouls? And you might ask the same of sniffing too much glue.

Like maybe a doctor would tell the ghoul to lay off the Jet or the weekend alcoholic benders, because that puts him at risk for becoming feral.