So what lore has Bethesda done gone fucked up?

I don't mind this retcon. Otherwise, it makes the Enclave pop in out of seemingly nowhere. I also like the oil rig being called Control Station Enclave. It's Stargate logic; hide the answer in plain sight.

I wonder if the Enclave tried to pass off their experiments as tests with magnets and spinning. Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning.
 
Ben Soto said:
I don't mind this retcon. Otherwise, it makes the Enclave pop in out of seemingly nowhere. I also like the oil rig being called Control Station Enclave. It's Stargate logic; hide the answer in plain sight.

I wonder if the Enclave tried to pass off their experiments as tests with magnets and spinning. Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning.
Click to expand...

Still, the entire text feels like a bit of a well-aimed nostalgia hit, meant to invoke the feelings of "see, here's the Enclave, this is definitely Fallout". Feels less natural and more spoonfed. But if it's really to be taken seriously, I guess hiding in plain sight does work. Especially when the conspiracy isn't really aimed at harm, more towards surviving the inevitable nuclear holocaust. They could've made it a little smoother, I suppose.

Still though...

Control Station Enclave.

I can't help but laugh thinking about it.
 
I prefer the oil rig just being a refitted oil rig changed to fit the Enclaves purpose. It makes the whole Enclave feel less daunting and Illuminati-like, while retaining their vast power. They can take control of areas due to their government power, but that doesn't mean they can fully take control of various US ministries and industries, as if they were the US... when the US was still there.
 
So if everyone in the US knew that there was nobody in the White House and that they were all having some kind of orgy on an oil-rig, why didn't China's multitude of spies tell Beijing? And why did they turn the empty White House into a giant hole-in-the-ground and not even try to attack the oil-rig, where everyone knew the President was getting his funk on?
 
The whole illuminati angle, IMO, is kind of dumb. It is like the cartoonishly evil badguys of Bond.

The enclave, was supposed to be a SMALL cabal of corrupt power brokers who might not have had all that much power pre-war. As things got worse, like in the Fallout verse, non-enclave personnel died with the rest or the population.

They got more power as those who could challenge them died but it was certainly no monolithic secret entity. The bigger you are, the easier to be found out.

I always imagined the enclave like the sith, post darth bane(?), and their rule of two or the NSDAP. Lets keep NWO, Tri laterals and FEMA deathcamps to Deus Ex.

And second Dr.s idea on the oil rig. It was a last ditch emergency measure. A bunch of enclave personnel retrofitted an oil rig and waited out the shit storm on it. Hell, they probably were so small and secretive that many didn't even know they existed or, atleast, were not considered much of a threat taking account of world wide events at the time.

When the REAL, COG was wiped out by the nuclear exchange, they formed their own. This explains how a high value target like the president survived, the guy certainly wasn't important pre-war, atleast to the chinese.
 
Last edited:
DarkCorp said:
The whole illuminati angle, IMO, is kind of dumb. It is like the cartoonishly evil badguys of Bond.

The enclave, was supposed to be a SMALL cabal of corrupt power brokers who might not have had all that much power pre-war. As things got worse, like in the Fallout verse, non-enclave personnel died with the rest or the population.

They got more power as those who could challenge them died but it was certainly no monolithic secret entity. The bigger you are, the easier to be found out.

I always imagined the enclave like the sith, post darth bane(?), and their rule of two or the NSDAP. Lets keep NWO, Tri laterals and FEMA deathcamps to Deus Ex.

And second Dr.s idea on the oil rig. It was a last ditch emergency measure. A bunch of enclave personnel retrofitted an oil rig and waited out the shit storm on it. Hell, they probably were so small and secretive that many didn't even know they existed or, atleast, were not considered much of a threat taking account of world wide events at the time.

When the REAL, COG was wiped out by the nuclear exchange, they formed their own. This explains how a high value target like the president survived, the guy certainly wasn't important pre-war, atleast to the chinese.
Click to expand...

This. Exactly what I would have like Bethesda to explore, not their insanely powerful government remnants. In the originals, the Enclave were a group of politicians and businessmen claiming they were the True US government, with Bethesda they actually are.
 
  1. Why is Jet everywhere?
  2. Why are there Deathclaws everywhere?
  3. Why are there Geckos everywhere?
  4. Why are there Mutants everywhere?
  5. The fuck is going on with the Brotherhood of Steel?
 
vdweller84 said:
  1. Why is Jet everywhere?
  2. Why are there Deathclaws everywhere?
  3. Why are there Geckos everywhere?
  4. Why are there Mutants everywhere?
  5. The fuck is going on with the Brotherhood of Steel?
Click to expand...

  1. Random loot system combined with oversights when design team was writing terminal entries combines to give inaccurate lore.
  2. The Institute. Somehow.
  3. ...what?
  4. The Institute. New FEV strain. Accidents and surface experiments leads to escaped mutants lead to super mutants roaming Commonwealth.
  5. BoS sent team to the East Coast, became DC BoS as seen in FO3, who became harsh but kind protectors instead of tech cult jerks. Had a little civil spat with the Outcasts, who wanted to stay tech cult jerks. Last descendant of Maxson, living in the Citadel (seen as kid in FO3) does a compromise and brings the Outcasts back into the fold. BoS is now tech cult jerks again but kinder than the West BoS. They plan to pre-emptively strike the Institute for fear of their power. Enter the events of Fallout 4.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Ah, I've got a new one. Not sure if it has been mentioned yet. Apparently, the Enclave existed before the war as a conspiracy theory, and the Poseidon Oil Rig was designated, in a massive streak of creativity, Control Station Enclave. This is hilariously bad. It's definitely a jarring insert, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Uhmm the Enclave did exist before the war, they were always a shadow organization.... that's not a retcon.
 
Walpknut said:
ZigzagPX4 said:
Ah, I've got a new one. Not sure if it has been mentioned yet. Apparently, the Enclave existed before the war as a conspiracy theory, and the Poseidon Oil Rig was designated, in a massive streak of creativity, Control Station Enclave. This is hilariously bad. It's definitely a jarring insert, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Uhmm the Enclave did exist before the war, they were always a shadow organization.... that's not a retcon.
Click to expand...

I didn't know the Oil Rig was called Control Station Enclave. That or I forgot already. It's been a long time since I last actually finished Fallout 2.

But I didn't know that their existence was paper-thin. Was there anything that alluded to high-profile newspapers knowing about them before?
 
Last edited:
The pre war Enclave couldn't have been that small considering they actually seized all working Vertibird prototypes (ignoring Fallout 4's overuse of the craft) and controlled an Oil Rig, not to mention they apparently had enough people to maintain a somewhat stable if a bot small population number by the time of FO2.
 
Walpknut said:
The pre war Enclave couldn't have been that small considering they actually seized all working Vertibird prototypes (ignoring Fallout 4's overuse of the craft) and controlled an Oil Rig, not to mention they apparently had enough people to maintain a somewhat stable if a bot small population number by the time of FO2.
Click to expand...

Controlling an oil rig isn't such a big achievement, especially considering the fact they had some powerful businessmen in their ranks, some Poseidon members possibly. Remember also the for the prototypes they could have had influence in the scientific area of the government, but not the whole damn government itself. And they could have hired private armies.
 
They had influence on the government because most of them were part of it on important roles.... And if they can hire private armies then that means they have lots of resources... I don't even see how any of the things you brought up even diminishes their power prewar.... if something that just proves my point....
 
Walpknut said:
They had influence on the government because most of them were part of it on important roles.... And if they can hire private armies then that means they have lots of resources... I don't even see how any of the things you brought up even diminishes their power prewar.... if something that just proves my point....
Click to expand...

My main point is that they don't have to be extremely powerful true government remnants to be influential. Just having the right people and funds can make you an enclave like faction. It depends on the size of the Private army.
 
Speaking of the Vertibirds, did Bethesda forget that normal helicopters exist or something? Would they have been in more plentiful numbers than the Vertibirds, which were prototype crafts?
 
I find it weird Bethesda quotes FO2 Enclave lore on a terminal in FO4 yet they seem to have missed the part where Vertibirds were stated to not have been used actively in the prewar days because they were still in the prototype phase, not meant for use for more or less 10 years and the Enclave seizing all of the working prototypes even then.

Doubly weird because they actually referenced this fact on Operation Anchorage where the precense of Vertibirds on the simulation was stated to be an anachronism because the guy in charge of the simulation was going crazy emeblishing the whole ordeal....
 
Walpknut said:
I find it weird Bethesda quotes FO2 Enclave lore on a terminal in FO4 yet they seem to have missed the part where Vertibirds were stated to not have been used actively in the prewar days because they were still in the prototype phase, not meant for use for more or less 10 years and the Enclave seizing all of the working prototypes even then.

Doubly weird because they actually referenced this fact on Operation Anchorage where the precense of Vertibirds on the simulation was stated to be an anachronism because the guy in charge of the simulation was going crazy emeblishing the whole ordeal....
Click to expand...

Every single BoS Vertibird in the air in Fallout 4 comes from Adams Air Force Base from Broken Steel, from what I know. They probably worked off the idea that it held literally every remaining prototype that wasn't in the West Coast. It's also how the Enclave in FO3 had many Vertibirds too.

On a side note, a lot of lore-heavy fiction have retconned things for style over substance. Fallout 4 doesn't do it right, but when done right and with good reason, a breach of lore to make certain things have more style isn't a bad thing. There are plenty of ways to do it less blatantly than Fallout 4 did.
 
I am more talking about the dozen or so Crashed Pre war vertibirds everywhere on Boston, the Vertibirds on the Pre War segments and even groups like the Gunners having them for some reason.

Crashed Vertibirds where usually attributed to the Enclave when they appeared in a game and there was usually only one location like that.... Fallout 4 tho? They are everywhere, there is even one in the Glowing sea, and a few atop overpasses.... some are just in the middle of nowhere, and the precense of prewar skeletons with Army uniforms in them disproves any defense about maybe those being post war crashes.
 
Walpknut said:
I am more talking about the dozen or so Crashed Pre war vertibirds everywhere on Boston, the Vertibirds on the Pre War segments and even groups like the Gunners having them for some reason.

Crashed Vertibirds where usually attributed to the Enclave when they appeared in a game and there was usually only one location like that.... Fallout 4 tho? They are everywhere, there is even one in the Glowing sea, and a few atop overpasses.... some are just in the middle of nowhere, and the precense of prewar skeletons with Army uniforms in them disproves any defense about maybe those being post war crashes.
Click to expand...

I think that's just Bethesda's fruitless attempt to make the franchise look unique by making it look like Vertibirds are a helicopter substitute. That was my point - why are there no regular helos in Fallout 4? Considering how many military bases there was.

The other fact is that Bethesda blatantly reused the dragon AI for the aircraft in Fallout 4, and so they had to make sure the general purpose aircraft was a VTOL so they didn't actually have to code new things in. Vertibirds were already a part of the lore and I don't think Bethesda enjoys working on new lore, so they just used what they already had. The game's aimed at Fallout 3 fans, not New Vegas ones, much less us. Fallout 3 had a lot of Vertibirds too so it would draw back old fans.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top