When people say 'Socialism' they're talking about the democratic-socialism that is practiced in most Western-European countries right now. And which is currently still working pretty well.Public said:
Tea Parties and Obamacare
- Thread starter Ozrat
- Start date
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Government. Corporations.
Either way we get fucked by a bloated, inefficient, inept system, don't fool yourselves. Does anybody seriously want the caliber of shit-for-brains working at DMV to regulate our helathcare? The cheerleading on both sides is the typical predictable strokery.
Most states around me already have state mandated and/or subsidized health care, what's the big deal? If it makes Canadians and Europeans feel better that you can look down on Alabama and Arkansas' helath care accessibility, well more power to you then.
Really, if you need the Feds to take care of you, you are already supremely fucked, you just don't know how bad yet. See: Katrina. If you need the Feds to hold your hand though life you are fucked six ways from Friday.
And Americans. Come on now. Put down the triple-bacon cheddar ranch burger and the 72 Oz. Mountain Dew. Go outside, take a walk in the woods, it's beautiful. It's good for your body, and your soul. Burn some calories, take some pride in your apperance. Not only will you be healthier, you might get laid too! If we want to have a serious debate about health care we need to address our grotesquely self-destructive eating habits.
And in defense of Russia, their healthcare system is tremendous, as soon as you're ill they shoot you. [/Derek & Clive]
Either way we get fucked by a bloated, inefficient, inept system, don't fool yourselves. Does anybody seriously want the caliber of shit-for-brains working at DMV to regulate our helathcare? The cheerleading on both sides is the typical predictable strokery.
Most states around me already have state mandated and/or subsidized health care, what's the big deal? If it makes Canadians and Europeans feel better that you can look down on Alabama and Arkansas' helath care accessibility, well more power to you then.
Really, if you need the Feds to take care of you, you are already supremely fucked, you just don't know how bad yet. See: Katrina. If you need the Feds to hold your hand though life you are fucked six ways from Friday.
And Americans. Come on now. Put down the triple-bacon cheddar ranch burger and the 72 Oz. Mountain Dew. Go outside, take a walk in the woods, it's beautiful. It's good for your body, and your soul. Burn some calories, take some pride in your apperance. Not only will you be healthier, you might get laid too! If we want to have a serious debate about health care we need to address our grotesquely self-destructive eating habits.
And in defense of Russia, their healthcare system is tremendous, as soon as you're ill they shoot you. [/Derek & Clive]
He's talking about the strict definition of 'socialism'. People in Europe don't throw the word 'socialism' at everything that happens to be state-run, and rightly so.rcorporon said:
Volunteers (Of America)
Volunteers (Of America)
Oh boy, another populist movement.
Good to see any status quo get a reality check.
Interesting how it may be blind siding the present Democratic Coalition,
and may successfully deconstruct the transitory nominal majority of the reigning status quo.
Sad to see behind some of the pawns to the big players pulling strings, as they pretend to be leading / not leading the mass dissatisfaction.
Americans are pissed and our provocateurs are naming the cause of the day. Both sides pointing at the other's status quo!
Federal government verses crony corporate governance. Big WWF Smack Down, more bread and circuses for Pax Americium.
What a great break from Octo-mom and Brittany Spears!
This grass roots movement is real enough that self anointed canvassers have shaken down my work place.
Funny how 2 of 3 of the vocal revolutionaries here are not the best workers,
one games the system and does as little as necessary, a true working class hero,
one is dead weight, carry them from task to task,
and one is a parasite, an emotional vampire,
right, the best recruiting stock for politicians at any level of organization.
But, hey, if their work ethic didn't pull down the productivity, doing less with more, I wouldn't have had the opportunity for this union job!
About the time I realized I was being politically interviewed, that it was another "white man test" (are you the 'right' kind of 'white' test)
like one has had to, still do to, endure in the south / north white working class environs,
then I was more demonstratively pissed off then this COMMISSAR, (commissar may have a Stalinist fit, but the creepy totalitarian tag applies to any 'opinion groomer'),
My rant about all media being corporate manipulators -- chain pullers and dream merchants --
well maybe I won't be the first against the wall when 'the revolution comes'.
Maybe I get to be the horse in this brave new Animal Farm, get to die in the traces ...
is that a step up from freezing in the dark, or just another lateral promotion?
Am not plugged into am radio --> "hate radio", just righteously pissed off at all our glorious demagogues, selling opinions and misdirection as "TROooo Fact (tm)".
Yet I can see this grass roots movement has found a stick to beat the establishment with ... in some ways it's the circus American politics deserves...
an emotional hissy fit against posturing politicians.
Soon that self appointed COMMISSAR will be bus riding with a cadre of ORGANIZED protesters,
will be riding to some town hall meeting that allows in the general public,
(our local congress person does telephone and web meetings ...)
so they may be driving through your town, riding in the night, right now. Mo' freedom riders, or ghost horsemen of the confederacy, you decide.
'Cause some folks just can't stop fighting that ol' Civil War ...
4too
Volunteers (Of America)
Jefferson Airplane said:
Oh boy, another populist movement.
Good to see any status quo get a reality check.
Interesting how it may be blind siding the present Democratic Coalition,
and may successfully deconstruct the transitory nominal majority of the reigning status quo.
Sad to see behind some of the pawns to the big players pulling strings, as they pretend to be leading / not leading the mass dissatisfaction.
Americans are pissed and our provocateurs are naming the cause of the day. Both sides pointing at the other's status quo!
Federal government verses crony corporate governance. Big WWF Smack Down, more bread and circuses for Pax Americium.
What a great break from Octo-mom and Brittany Spears!
This grass roots movement is real enough that self anointed canvassers have shaken down my work place.
Funny how 2 of 3 of the vocal revolutionaries here are not the best workers,
one games the system and does as little as necessary, a true working class hero,
one is dead weight, carry them from task to task,
and one is a parasite, an emotional vampire,
right, the best recruiting stock for politicians at any level of organization.
But, hey, if their work ethic didn't pull down the productivity, doing less with more, I wouldn't have had the opportunity for this union job!
About the time I realized I was being politically interviewed, that it was another "white man test" (are you the 'right' kind of 'white' test)
like one has had to, still do to, endure in the south / north white working class environs,
then I was more demonstratively pissed off then this COMMISSAR, (commissar may have a Stalinist fit, but the creepy totalitarian tag applies to any 'opinion groomer'),
My rant about all media being corporate manipulators -- chain pullers and dream merchants --
well maybe I won't be the first against the wall when 'the revolution comes'.
Maybe I get to be the horse in this brave new Animal Farm, get to die in the traces ...
is that a step up from freezing in the dark, or just another lateral promotion?
Am not plugged into am radio --> "hate radio", just righteously pissed off at all our glorious demagogues, selling opinions and misdirection as "TROooo Fact (tm)".
Yet I can see this grass roots movement has found a stick to beat the establishment with ... in some ways it's the circus American politics deserves...
an emotional hissy fit against posturing politicians.
Soon that self appointed COMMISSAR will be bus riding with a cadre of ORGANIZED protesters,
will be riding to some town hall meeting that allows in the general public,
(our local congress person does telephone and web meetings ...)
so they may be driving through your town, riding in the night, right now. Mo' freedom riders, or ghost horsemen of the confederacy, you decide.
'Cause some folks just can't stop fighting that ol' Civil War ...
4too
Ah, this topic.
I really do just LOVE the whole "OH GOD IT'S SOCIALISM RUN!" mentality that I've been seeing in some of these "town halls".
It's about as interesting as the idea that Obama was born outside of America.
The whole thing just really makes me rather sick at times.
I don't know. Sometimes I really think socialism isn't the worst Idea for America. I think in some ways it could be very helpful.
I'd rather have this so-called "socialist" government running America than those conspiracy losers.
I really do just LOVE the whole "OH GOD IT'S SOCIALISM RUN!" mentality that I've been seeing in some of these "town halls".
It's about as interesting as the idea that Obama was born outside of America.
The whole thing just really makes me rather sick at times.
I don't know. Sometimes I really think socialism isn't the worst Idea for America. I think in some ways it could be very helpful.
I'd rather have this so-called "socialist" government running America than those conspiracy losers.
A fellow Language Log reader?Alphadrop said:
(http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1658)
And yet, the countries that have that also have in addition:rcorporon said:
- private education
- private healthcare
- private social assistance
- private retirement plans
OMG SOCIALISM NOOOOOOOOOOO
I would like to see both exist at the same time.
When I was growing up, my family was very poor. My health care was provided by the state of Maryland. It pretty much provided for everything, and we rarely had to pay much at all (a symbolic 20USD at most). It is available to all Maryland poor, and has been for longer than I've been alive. It no longer applies after your 19th year, however.
Downsides to said health plan is that not everyone accepted it, and some places would bounce back and forth on the issue, simply because the state government was so damn slow in paying up, and required harsh amounts of paperwork for everyone involved.
Personally, I'd much prefer the states to have their own plan, rather than a blanket Federal one, but I have always been a rather firm believer in the 10th amendment.
M.
When I was growing up, my family was very poor. My health care was provided by the state of Maryland. It pretty much provided for everything, and we rarely had to pay much at all (a symbolic 20USD at most). It is available to all Maryland poor, and has been for longer than I've been alive. It no longer applies after your 19th year, however.
Downsides to said health plan is that not everyone accepted it, and some places would bounce back and forth on the issue, simply because the state government was so damn slow in paying up, and required harsh amounts of paperwork for everyone involved.
Personally, I'd much prefer the states to have their own plan, rather than a blanket Federal one, but I have always been a rather firm believer in the 10th amendment.
M.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
my biggest concerns are the following:
1) how much will it pay for? if its not 100% payment of all emergency health care, its not worthwhile
2) if it does not cover 100% of all "checkup" visits, its not worthwhile
3) it should not cover non-emergency healthcare for illegal immigrants, and it should be required for those illegal immigrants to be reported to the poliece to hold them till INS takes custody and then deports them.
4) if it doesnt cover 100% of all emergency and checkup visits, what is the point? will private health care plans be allowed? if so, since everything is covered by the govt plan, what will the benifit of the private plan be?
5) everyone has heard about HMO's denying care to people and them dying or having permanent damage for supposedly "optional" care. how is this plan going to keep that from happening?
6) if something does go wrong and someone does something wrong, what kind of recourse is there? lawsuit, remediation, arbitration?
here are the parts i know the answer to:
3:
it doesnt require reporting illegal immigrants to the INS. its a "dont tell" policy. and this is our current policy. and this policy and the illegal immigrant problem is why hospitals in the 3 worst hit states ( california, texas, florida ) have public hospitals closing because they are bankrupt.
5:
if someone denies your care, its a local panel. if you die or suffer permanent damage, there is no higher group to appeal to to try to get that care.
6:
there is none. if a doctor makes a mistake, if the panel denies your care, if someone in the hospital does something wrong, you have no recourse.
1) how much will it pay for? if its not 100% payment of all emergency health care, its not worthwhile
2) if it does not cover 100% of all "checkup" visits, its not worthwhile
3) it should not cover non-emergency healthcare for illegal immigrants, and it should be required for those illegal immigrants to be reported to the poliece to hold them till INS takes custody and then deports them.
4) if it doesnt cover 100% of all emergency and checkup visits, what is the point? will private health care plans be allowed? if so, since everything is covered by the govt plan, what will the benifit of the private plan be?
5) everyone has heard about HMO's denying care to people and them dying or having permanent damage for supposedly "optional" care. how is this plan going to keep that from happening?
6) if something does go wrong and someone does something wrong, what kind of recourse is there? lawsuit, remediation, arbitration?
here are the parts i know the answer to:
3:
it doesnt require reporting illegal immigrants to the INS. its a "dont tell" policy. and this is our current policy. and this policy and the illegal immigrant problem is why hospitals in the 3 worst hit states ( california, texas, florida ) have public hospitals closing because they are bankrupt.
5:
if someone denies your care, its a local panel. if you die or suffer permanent damage, there is no higher group to appeal to to try to get that care.
6:
there is none. if a doctor makes a mistake, if the panel denies your care, if someone in the hospital does something wrong, you have no recourse.
you have a few interesting questions (by thinking about the US economy which is not working in favour of public health care systems compared to many european states for example here the employer pays half of the social taxes of his employes which involve the public health care as well which are a mandatory for every usual employee while ndependent contractor have to usualy use private health care but at least pay everything)
but what is the alternative though ?
From what I hear by a few US people I know you get compared to us (Germans) you have to pay a lot more and get less options offered. I would not say a "public" health care will inherently change all flaws. But something definetly has to be done or at least changed.
but what is the alternative though ?
Ozrat said:
From what I hear by a few US people I know you get compared to us (Germans) you have to pay a lot more and get less options offered. I would not say a "public" health care will inherently change all flaws. But something definetly has to be done or at least changed.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Preventative health care is less expensive than emergency health care, so if you want to minimize the economic impact then you cover it all. If you want to solve illegal immigration then you have to solve the problem, not the symptoms. Illegal immigration exists because there are jobs for those immigrants or better paying jobs for those immigrants. Illegal workers is damaging not because of the immigration but because the payroll is off the books and thus not taxed so what you do is you hit employers and hit them hard. If you establish massive fines and jail time for hiring illegal immigrants then you are well on your way. If you crack down on employers (both commercial and private) to the point where the potential financial gains aren't worth the risk then you'll minimize the immigration. Of course it would probably be smart for the US to ensure that Mexico has a stable, friendly, and fairly noncorrupt government and a stable and decent economy but ensuring that is far more complicated and would cost us money in the short term.TheWesDude said:
Let's see if I can organize my thoughts in a coherant manner! ADD, dont' fail me now:
(Quotes in order of apperance)
"People might gain respect to their so called "freedom" after experiencing a socialism like in USSR was, but saying it isn't the worst idea for America, or any other country, is like saying 'Living in a cardboard box isn't so bad at all!'"
If anything, the USSR was totalitarian, not socialist . . . But I'm ignorant on the whole matter. It's seems to be the same thing as callin' Hitler's party "socialist" . . . Now, for the people without employment, on welfare, they are living in that cardboard box. Well, an average $600 a month cardboard box.
"Personally, I'd much prefer the states to have their own plan, rather than a blanket Federal one, but I have always been a rather firm believer in the 10th amendment."
Which is what we have in Canada; Each province has it's own healthcare plan.
"1) how much will it pay for? if its not 100% payment of all emergency health care, its not worthwhile"
If it's any percentage less, it is less that the individual has to cough up. In the case of health care, we're talking about people in the margins -- those who make an average of $60 000 a year and below, I'm guessing, and those who have severe medical conditions that can't cover them themselves.
"2) if it does not cover 100% of all "checkup" visits, its not worthwhile" See above. Couple hundred dollars saved, may mean someone actually goes for an annual, no?
"3) it should not cover non-emergency healthcare for illegal immigrants, and it should be required for those illegal immigrants to be reported to the poliece to hold them till INS takes custody and then deports them." Agreed, sorta. Trouble is, then those people don't get the care that they need, due to fear of being deported . . . Err, I guess if you don't see that as a problem, carry on.
"4) if it doesnt cover 100% of all emergency and checkup visits, what is the point? will private health care plans be allowed? if so, since everything is covered by the govt plan, what will the benifit of the private plan be?"
I heard nothing of removing private healthcare plans, or even limiting them. More so, subsidizing them federally, if I'm not mistaken, like we do here in Canada. I have both an Ontario Health Insurance Plan, a Sun Life insurance plan (father is a firefigher for the city of Toronto) and a . . . some private company insurance plan (from the military). They all co-exist. Sun Lifea and Personal eat the OHIP remainder, after they claim against OHIP. Then eat each other's remainder. (OHIP pays an average of 80% of most things, usually to a limit of 1-2 per year -- such as check ups, then the other insurance companies compensate the rest). So, both public and private work together.
"5) everyone has heard about HMO's denying care to people and them dying or having permanent damage for supposedly 'optional' care. how is this plan going to keep that from happening?" Corruption is as corruption does? People make mistakes? I don't know. Have to have some sort of mechanism to insure that people (and money) does not disappear within the system. Sounds like a legal thing . . . *Ignorance*
"6) if something does go wrong and someone does something wrong, what kind of recourse is there? lawsuit, remediation, arbitration?" Nothing exists currently? What happened to malpractice?
"it doesnt require reporting illegal immigrants to the INS. its a 'dont tell' policy. and this is our current policy. and this policy and the illegal immigrant problem is why hospitals in the 3 worst hit states ( california, texas, florida ) have public hospitals closing because they are bankrupt." Or it's because they're underfunded, and the financial crisis occured, with a gov' cutting previously huge budgets down to "just enough to get by" . . . I seriously doubt illegal immigration is that severe. More so, I doubt there are statistics to base it on -- only extrapulations of guesses. Key thing about being an illegal immigrant, I assume, is there's no paper work to hint at their existance.
"5:
if someone denies your care, its a local panel. if you die or suffer permanent damage, there is no higher group to appeal to to try to get that care." There are no federal/state courts that handle this?
"6:
there is none. if a doctor makes a mistake, if the panel denies your care, if someone in the hospital does something wrong, you have no recourse."
Again, no malpractice suits in the US?
Now, for an aside . . .
In Canada, there is this rotund woman on TV now talking about public healthcare, and how it almost cost her her life, after she was diagnosed with an operable brain tumor. Now, she had to wait about 6 months for surgery in Canada. So, she flew to the US (I'm guessing) and paid for it herself, absorbing the cost. Now, she's on TV warning Americans against public healthcare.
Trouble is, I don't know the details of her case. If she wasn't deemed to be in dire need of surgury, then her operation would of been delayed, no? The emergencies would go first, no? Further, I've heard of other cases where people do this, then come back, and the provincial healthcare plan pays for that care, that they payed for anyway. Ah, good old speculation. Finally, in emergency cases, it's not too uncommon for the gov' to end up referring someone to a private specialist in Canada or America, for treatment, absorbing the cost.
Another aside: WHO statistics, per captia, Canada pays half of what the US gov' pays for healthcare, yet we're a public system. Yay.
(Quotes in order of apperance)
"People might gain respect to their so called "freedom" after experiencing a socialism like in USSR was, but saying it isn't the worst idea for America, or any other country, is like saying 'Living in a cardboard box isn't so bad at all!'"
If anything, the USSR was totalitarian, not socialist . . . But I'm ignorant on the whole matter. It's seems to be the same thing as callin' Hitler's party "socialist" . . . Now, for the people without employment, on welfare, they are living in that cardboard box. Well, an average $600 a month cardboard box.
"Personally, I'd much prefer the states to have their own plan, rather than a blanket Federal one, but I have always been a rather firm believer in the 10th amendment."
Which is what we have in Canada; Each province has it's own healthcare plan.
"1) how much will it pay for? if its not 100% payment of all emergency health care, its not worthwhile"
If it's any percentage less, it is less that the individual has to cough up. In the case of health care, we're talking about people in the margins -- those who make an average of $60 000 a year and below, I'm guessing, and those who have severe medical conditions that can't cover them themselves.
"2) if it does not cover 100% of all "checkup" visits, its not worthwhile" See above. Couple hundred dollars saved, may mean someone actually goes for an annual, no?
"3) it should not cover non-emergency healthcare for illegal immigrants, and it should be required for those illegal immigrants to be reported to the poliece to hold them till INS takes custody and then deports them." Agreed, sorta. Trouble is, then those people don't get the care that they need, due to fear of being deported . . . Err, I guess if you don't see that as a problem, carry on.
"4) if it doesnt cover 100% of all emergency and checkup visits, what is the point? will private health care plans be allowed? if so, since everything is covered by the govt plan, what will the benifit of the private plan be?"
I heard nothing of removing private healthcare plans, or even limiting them. More so, subsidizing them federally, if I'm not mistaken, like we do here in Canada. I have both an Ontario Health Insurance Plan, a Sun Life insurance plan (father is a firefigher for the city of Toronto) and a . . . some private company insurance plan (from the military). They all co-exist. Sun Lifea and Personal eat the OHIP remainder, after they claim against OHIP. Then eat each other's remainder. (OHIP pays an average of 80% of most things, usually to a limit of 1-2 per year -- such as check ups, then the other insurance companies compensate the rest). So, both public and private work together.
"5) everyone has heard about HMO's denying care to people and them dying or having permanent damage for supposedly 'optional' care. how is this plan going to keep that from happening?" Corruption is as corruption does? People make mistakes? I don't know. Have to have some sort of mechanism to insure that people (and money) does not disappear within the system. Sounds like a legal thing . . . *Ignorance*
"6) if something does go wrong and someone does something wrong, what kind of recourse is there? lawsuit, remediation, arbitration?" Nothing exists currently? What happened to malpractice?
"it doesnt require reporting illegal immigrants to the INS. its a 'dont tell' policy. and this is our current policy. and this policy and the illegal immigrant problem is why hospitals in the 3 worst hit states ( california, texas, florida ) have public hospitals closing because they are bankrupt." Or it's because they're underfunded, and the financial crisis occured, with a gov' cutting previously huge budgets down to "just enough to get by" . . . I seriously doubt illegal immigration is that severe. More so, I doubt there are statistics to base it on -- only extrapulations of guesses. Key thing about being an illegal immigrant, I assume, is there's no paper work to hint at their existance.
"5:
if someone denies your care, its a local panel. if you die or suffer permanent damage, there is no higher group to appeal to to try to get that care." There are no federal/state courts that handle this?
"6:
there is none. if a doctor makes a mistake, if the panel denies your care, if someone in the hospital does something wrong, you have no recourse."
Again, no malpractice suits in the US?
Now, for an aside . . .
In Canada, there is this rotund woman on TV now talking about public healthcare, and how it almost cost her her life, after she was diagnosed with an operable brain tumor. Now, she had to wait about 6 months for surgery in Canada. So, she flew to the US (I'm guessing) and paid for it herself, absorbing the cost. Now, she's on TV warning Americans against public healthcare.
Trouble is, I don't know the details of her case. If she wasn't deemed to be in dire need of surgury, then her operation would of been delayed, no? The emergencies would go first, no? Further, I've heard of other cases where people do this, then come back, and the provincial healthcare plan pays for that care, that they payed for anyway. Ah, good old speculation. Finally, in emergency cases, it's not too uncommon for the gov' to end up referring someone to a private specialist in Canada or America, for treatment, absorbing the cost.
Another aside: WHO statistics, per captia, Canada pays half of what the US gov' pays for healthcare, yet we're a public system. Yay.
"it doesnt require reporting illegal immigrants to the INS. its a 'dont tell' policy. and this is our current policy. and this policy and the illegal immigrant problem is why hospitals in the 3 worst hit states ( california, texas, florida ) have public hospitals closing because they are bankrupt."
If it did then no illegals would visit hospitals, which means that a) there'd be a lot more dead mexicans around the place (if you're a heartless piece of shit, you'd think this is a good thing) and b) they'd constitute a health risk to the rest of the population. It's one of the reasons for Doctor-Patient confidentiality, no one is going to tell a doctor their embarassing sexual infection if they know the doctor is going to tell everyone at the bar.
If it did then no illegals would visit hospitals, which means that a) there'd be a lot more dead mexicans around the place (if you're a heartless piece of shit, you'd think this is a good thing) and b) they'd constitute a health risk to the rest of the population. It's one of the reasons for Doctor-Patient confidentiality, no one is going to tell a doctor their embarassing sexual infection if they know the doctor is going to tell everyone at the bar.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
in the bill, there are no provisions and no mention of the following words:
recourse, malpractice, arbitration
the version of it i have is:
AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
if you can find where the protections and what they are in the bill, let me know. as far as i know, there are none.
====================
If it did then no illegals would visit hospitals, which means that a) there'd be a lot more dead mexicans around the place (if you're a heartless piece of shit, you'd think this is a good thing) and b) they'd constitute a health risk to the rest of the population. It's one of the reasons for Doctor-Patient confidentiality, no one is going to tell a doctor their embarassing sexual infection if they know the doctor is going to tell everyone at the bar.
=======================
california and texas state govts are going bankrupt providing health care and welfare and other public services to them.
meh, they should just raise taxes to make up for it i guess. oh, hey, they are illegal so they dont pay taxes.
i would rather they died than being given free health care and having access to other public services. either illegal immigrants suffer, or everyone else does.
call me heartless, but the reality is something entirely different. in some circumstances, whats good for the majority is worth a little minority suffering. i would rather an illegal immigrant die from not getting public assistance or emergency health care than a legal citizen or resident suffer.
i mean, what kind of penalties would you impose if a hospital discovers they are treating an illegal immigrant? treat and then discharge without notifying anyone or anything? thats just stupid.
recourse, malpractice, arbitration
the version of it i have is:
AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
if you can find where the protections and what they are in the bill, let me know. as far as i know, there are none.
====================
If it did then no illegals would visit hospitals, which means that a) there'd be a lot more dead mexicans around the place (if you're a heartless piece of shit, you'd think this is a good thing) and b) they'd constitute a health risk to the rest of the population. It's one of the reasons for Doctor-Patient confidentiality, no one is going to tell a doctor their embarassing sexual infection if they know the doctor is going to tell everyone at the bar.
=======================
california and texas state govts are going bankrupt providing health care and welfare and other public services to them.
meh, they should just raise taxes to make up for it i guess. oh, hey, they are illegal so they dont pay taxes.
i would rather they died than being given free health care and having access to other public services. either illegal immigrants suffer, or everyone else does.
call me heartless, but the reality is something entirely different. in some circumstances, whats good for the majority is worth a little minority suffering. i would rather an illegal immigrant die from not getting public assistance or emergency health care than a legal citizen or resident suffer.
i mean, what kind of penalties would you impose if a hospital discovers they are treating an illegal immigrant? treat and then discharge without notifying anyone or anything? thats just stupid.
Grey, I did not know each province had their own. That sounds like a far better idea than a federal blanked act.
Now, as for that woman from Canada that flew here, she's a liar. The Mayo clinic said that her tumor was benign and at worst she could have gone blind, but not died. Hardly anyone here believes her, unless they've only seen the in passing and haven't really looked into it.
M.
Now, as for that woman from Canada that flew here, she's a liar. The Mayo clinic said that her tumor was benign and at worst she could have gone blind, but not died. Hardly anyone here believes her, unless they've only seen the in passing and haven't really looked into it.
M.
Only in the US my friend. Only there.TheWesDude said:
In Germany we still somewhat believe in the Hippocratic Oath
It isn't an either/or situation, and denying people emergency healthcare because they aren't supposed to be in a country is significantly worse than the fictional 'death panels'.TheWesDude said:
Member of Khans
Vault Dweller
semi-OT:
Er...
I'm sorry to say this, because I'm on your site, but that's just the way it is.
Public healthcare IS a great idea and has been proven to work all over the world, again and again and again and...
But to quote Germany or, like, the UK (for NHS =
), as an effective example... Well, let's just say it doesn't suck half as bad - heck, not even 10 % as bad - as a lot of americans tend to think, but it still sucks.
Crni Vuk said:
Er...
BKA said:
I'm sorry to say this, because I'm on your site, but that's just the way it is.
Public healthcare IS a great idea and has been proven to work all over the world, again and again and again and...
But to quote Germany or, like, the UK (for NHS =
), as an effective example... Well, let's just say it doesn't suck half as bad - heck, not even 10 % as bad - as a lot of americans tend to think, but it still sucks.