was that (easy game mechanics aside) it felt like a post apocalyptic game. The world is F'ed, most everything is ruins that are being fought over like ants fighting over some left over picnic food. New Vegas came of more like a Post-post apocalyptic game, New vegas was mostly spared from the nukes, the desert is a desert with life and plants etc. The NCR has helped re-establish real society. The capital wasteland is a wasteland in comparison. the only real towns look like they are barely getting by like Megaton and Rivet city. Now why is it 200+ years later they are still in such a crap state while other parts of America are doing better? well that was poorly explained but it did give you that sense of "emerging from the end of the world" that was missing from NV. It makes me wonder how FO4 will work? if we keep moving foward in time its natuarl to assume things wil continue to get better for society, will that eliminate that "just hanging on" feeling that the original Fallout and FO3 had.
The aspect of Fallout 3 that i liked better then New Vegas
- Thread starter Felspawn
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I know! I mean, it's not like people would think that after 200 years, they could get something stupid like a civilization going. I'm sure everyone loves freezing, starvation, dehydration, and being mauled by mutant animals!
Facepunch....
OK, I agree on one term. It was the main hit zone.
But wait, which one is the main hit zone?!
You just assume that of course, but basically all that is explained in the main story is that someone hit a nuke button too many times and did a fatality combo from just button mashing. All over the world. They don't even know who started the war, only nukes fell. And what, someone nuked DC 3 times? How come it's still on the map and not a solid waste or a big ass whole? It looks like Optimus Prime landed on it rather than a nuke hit on White House.
Fallout 2 had a much better society, the one that was non existent in FO3 but was (thank god) available to some extent in FNV. Like they live in separate reality which consist primarly of numbskulled intelligence or armors with magical + on stats, on top of that perks who turn the god mode on. Well we got + armors in FNV but not so "magical". Bethesda knows how to make fairytales only as it appears, since FNV has a much more rationality added to itself that FO3 ever had. And the way they added those Aliens in the last DLC is so sad I will be surprised they make FO4, rather than just hold on license and talk shit like they made all the games. Which is typical for them.
OK, I agree on one term. It was the main hit zone.
But wait, which one is the main hit zone?!
You just assume that of course, but basically all that is explained in the main story is that someone hit a nuke button too many times and did a fatality combo from just button mashing. All over the world. They don't even know who started the war, only nukes fell. And what, someone nuked DC 3 times? How come it's still on the map and not a solid waste or a big ass whole? It looks like Optimus Prime landed on it rather than a nuke hit on White House.
Fallout 2 had a much better society, the one that was non existent in FO3 but was (thank god) available to some extent in FNV. Like they live in separate reality which consist primarly of numbskulled intelligence or armors with magical + on stats, on top of that perks who turn the god mode on. Well we got + armors in FNV but not so "magical". Bethesda knows how to make fairytales only as it appears, since FNV has a much more rationality added to itself that FO3 ever had. And the way they added those Aliens in the last DLC is so sad I will be surprised they make FO4, rather than just hold on license and talk shit like they made all the games. Which is typical for them.
Yes, because having towns composed of two people is a lot better than what New Vegas did. And it's not like after two hundred years people would grow their own food or anything, the supermarkets have more than enough left over.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Everybody knows that you can feed entire geenrations with a very limited stock of old pork and beans. And that the best place to build your town and water resources is around an atomic bomb. Overpasses are also terrific places for surviving.
Fallout 3's post-apocalyptic setting would've been decent if it hadn't been so conflicted. Between trying to crowbar in stuff from Fallout 1 and 2, and then being set 200 years after the apocalypse but all communities and supplies being presents as if it's closer to 50 years after the apocalypse... it just lacked consistency.
That's not to say places like Capitol Hill or Rivet City weren't cool, they were, and overall a game made up of that would've been better than the rollercoaster of New Vegas. But both games really lacked in consistent logic and aesthetic.
That's not to say places like Capitol Hill or Rivet City weren't cool, they were, and overall a game made up of that would've been better than the rollercoaster of New Vegas. But both games really lacked in consistent logic and aesthetic.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
What do you mean New vegas lacked logic and consistency? Counting Novac out I don't see many Cool shit town" there, and most of the settlements actualy seem to serve a function in the whole picture.
Walpknut said:
Really now? A high-class elitist town like New Vegas which has absolutely no resources of its own surviving in the middle of a wasteland populated primarily by poor towns makes all kinds of sense, right? It serves no trading function like the Hub, it doesn't even supply "illegal" functions to the masses like New Reno, it just sits there and does nothing, yet somehow it survives. And somehow the look of Vegas survived for 200 years. Riiiiiiiight. Oh, and then let's put a walled-off community of people with infinite supplies in mortars and rockets RIGHT NEXT TO IT, because that makes sense. Let's not forget to add an army of cosplayers!
Hey man, I dug New Vegas, but consistency? Woof. It had no more of it than Fallout 2, its closest relative.
Didn't they get all their food from hunting and farming before the NCR and House showed up? I think Benny mentioned that all the New Vegas tribes were nomadic, or at least his was, until House came out and the NCR started trading with them and bringing in revenue. The people there only started "Sitting down and doing nothing" once the NCR showed up. Then they started getting enough money from people gambling that they could buy whatever supplies they needed, and I think it's mentioned in the King's quest that people in Freeside are going hungry.
Edit: And Nellis AFB is far enough away in real life that as long as you didn't go looking for it you wouldn't get hurt, and the Boomers moved in relatively recently. I don't think they have an endless supply of mortars, most people just know not to go that way so they hardly ever have to use them.
Edit: And even if the towns in the Mojave are poor, that doesn't mean the NCR is, and the NCR is Vegas's main source of income.
Edit: And Nellis AFB is far enough away in real life that as long as you didn't go looking for it you wouldn't get hurt, and the Boomers moved in relatively recently. I don't think they have an endless supply of mortars, most people just know not to go that way so they hardly ever have to use them.
Edit: And even if the towns in the Mojave are poor, that doesn't mean the NCR is, and the NCR is Vegas's main source of income.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Vegas was rebuilt just recently, its implied it was 15 years ago not from before the war, it was under control of a bunch of Tribes and House managed to ocnvince three of them to work for him and make the others leave, it survives off the Tourism, it has the Power of the Dam keeping it powered, atracting people with money to spend on it after the NCR arrived, it was not an hermetic place. The NCR built the bases of House's Plan, they stablished trading routes and big settlements so he can just take them from his hands with the help of his army of robots.
If you talk to the kid in the Nellis Museum he will tell you abotu the crops, and oyu can even go and see the Nellsi Crops, they grow their own food, and they are on top of a Military Base, they only care about their bussiness, they are nto raiders. The Legion has their origins and their ways of survivign explained but not shown, They could nto be explored in depth mostly because of Time constraints.
I odn't see that "roller coaster" feeling you say there.
If you talk to the kid in the Nellis Museum he will tell you abotu the crops, and oyu can even go and see the Nellsi Crops, they grow their own food, and they are on top of a Military Base, they only care about their bussiness, they are nto raiders. The Legion has their origins and their ways of survivign explained but not shown, They could nto be explored in depth mostly because of Time constraints.
I odn't see that "roller coaster" feeling you say there.
As much as I'd love to repeat this debate again, just read my review instead.
NCR only works as an excuse so far. This is a military outpost for the NCR, and the soldiers are hardly rich. If it were in the center of the NCR lands, it'd make more sense, but it's not, and the NCR is not an expansive enough excuse. Can it support a gambling town? Yes. Can it support a city with multiple casinos, hot spas and other unnecessary luxuries? Ridiculous.
Also, you misunderstood my complaint on Nellis. They defend their area by shelling anyone who comes close. This long after the war, there is no way they could have enough supplies to keep doing this for any stretch of time. No, their Vault didn't hold enough either, it makes no sense.
As for rebuilt, again you misunderstood my point. New Vegas has buildings and structures from before the War that could not survive that long. A construction of the shape of Mr House's tower doesn't have the structural integrity to keep standing that long.
NCR only works as an excuse so far. This is a military outpost for the NCR, and the soldiers are hardly rich. If it were in the center of the NCR lands, it'd make more sense, but it's not, and the NCR is not an expansive enough excuse. Can it support a gambling town? Yes. Can it support a city with multiple casinos, hot spas and other unnecessary luxuries? Ridiculous.
Also, you misunderstood my complaint on Nellis. They defend their area by shelling anyone who comes close. This long after the war, there is no way they could have enough supplies to keep doing this for any stretch of time. No, their Vault didn't hold enough either, it makes no sense.
As for rebuilt, again you misunderstood my point. New Vegas has buildings and structures from before the War that could not survive that long. A construction of the shape of Mr House's tower doesn't have the structural integrity to keep standing that long.
Brother None said:
The soldiers aren't the only NCR citizens gambling, I think it's mentioned that rich tourists often travel to Vegas and lose everything.
They haven't been there since the end of the war, they moved in relatively recently. Also while they do shell anyone who comes close, I'd imagine that not many people come close. They probably only have to shell the occasional idiot who thinks he's fast enough to get in.
I'll give you that one, but it's still not that big a deal. Willing suspension of disbelief is required for this, maybe you can imagine the Lucky 38 was built out of some super powerful alloy?
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
It's not just SOldiers on the Strip, there are also wealthy New Californians like Brahmin Barons and peopelñ that just pooled in their savign to make the trip, there is a reason for them havign the denomination "NCR Citizen" and "Travelers" and not "NCR Soldier" only.
The Boomers moved quite recently, yo ucan find survivors of Vault 34 still inside barely alive, implying the rioting there that caused the Boomers to abandon the Vault happened quite recnetly, By the end of the game they can potentialy stablish a deal with the Gunn Runners so they become even more powerful.
And considerign that House was a crazy perpared guy it is not beyond the realm of posibility that he built his tower to survive the Nuclear holocaust, I mean he mounted a bunch of anti warhead laser cannons on top of it and built a machien to keep himself alive for 200 years and probably more.
The Boomers moved quite recently, yo ucan find survivors of Vault 34 still inside barely alive, implying the rioting there that caused the Boomers to abandon the Vault happened quite recnetly, By the end of the game they can potentialy stablish a deal with the Gunn Runners so they become even more powerful.
And considerign that House was a crazy perpared guy it is not beyond the realm of posibility that he built his tower to survive the Nuclear holocaust, I mean he mounted a bunch of anti warhead laser cannons on top of it and built a machien to keep himself alive for 200 years and probably more.
Courier said:
And that's enough for you? Seriously? Think about it. Think about how much power New Vegas takes to run. How much food it must consume. Do you imagine NCR to be as rich as current-day America? Does it support an upper class big enough to uphold a town of moral deviancy that is far away from its economic center?
Courier said:
They moved 50 years ago. That's too long.
Courier said:
I have no problem with willing suspension of disbelief. I do have a problem when the game asks me too suspend it time and again for things that make no sense or are only half-way explained time and again. Wooden buildings? Tall structures still standing? A gambling town with no economic support structure? Romans? It's too much, and it's all over the place. If you think rationalizing each and everyone one with information both internally and externally from the game, then stop and think a minute: can't you do exactly the same thing for Fallout 3?
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
The boomers also grow their own food in the base, so they're not sitting on limited supplies.
Really I don't see where NV wasn't consistent. It all made sense and I hadn't roll my eyes during the game, contrary to Fallout 2.
Really I don't see where NV wasn't consistent. It all made sense and I hadn't roll my eyes during the game, contrary to Fallout 2.
I never mentioned food for the Boomers. If you don't want to read my posts, fine, but please don't reply if you can't be bothered to read what I'm saying.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Yeah, The Boomers have ben there for 50 years, doing nothing other than surviving, using their training pods and practicing with their explosives, it is never hinted that they don't know how to make them, they have more than enough materials in the Military base, they have crops and they don't actively seek combat against nobody. They are like the BOS, only a lot less ambitious.
The Strip uses about 10% of the Dam's Power, and Hosue says thats more than enough for them to function, they are living in a parasitistic relationship with the NCR, there is a reason they ask you to take House down in their Quest Line. You are saying that the information we get from the game itself and the characters is worth nothing, The Legion aren't any sillier than a virus that gives people quadrple DND Hellixes by bathing on it. Or a building reinfroced to survive the war is not sillier than armor that recycles your urine, and they are explained in the game itself, you write a lot of detaisl off as "silly, don't exist" just because.
Using FO3 is a very strawman argument, FO3 doesn't even give any reason isndie of the game itself as to why anythign is still working, with NV we can make safe assumptionts based on the information we are given.
The Strip uses about 10% of the Dam's Power, and Hosue says thats more than enough for them to function, they are living in a parasitistic relationship with the NCR, there is a reason they ask you to take House down in their Quest Line. You are saying that the information we get from the game itself and the characters is worth nothing, The Legion aren't any sillier than a virus that gives people quadrple DND Hellixes by bathing on it. Or a building reinfroced to survive the war is not sillier than armor that recycles your urine, and they are explained in the game itself, you write a lot of detaisl off as "silly, don't exist" just because.
Using FO3 is a very strawman argument, FO3 doesn't even give any reason isndie of the game itself as to why anythign is still working, with NV we can make safe assumptionts based on the information we are given.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Sorry, I misunderstood the term "supplies" as in food supplies. Touche! 
Brother None said:
Well considering each citizen that visits the Strip has at least 2000 caps on them and pretty much always end up losing everything it seems like enough, for comparison it's said that the average monthly pay for an NCR soldier is somewhere around 50 caps IIRC, so 2000 caps a tourist seems like more than enough to run a city consisting of three families and some robots. They get power from Hoover Dam since they have a deal worked out with the NCR, and you can solve any power troubles they might have by directing the HELIOS One energy towards the strip. The food that the tourists eat is sold to them at high prices, so the only food they really need to worry about is for the three families, and they get more than enough revenue to just buy food from traders and farmers.
Military bases have a lot of ammunition, especially when they're preparing for a big war between two world superpowers. After word spread that anybody that gets too close to Nellis gets blown up, I'd imagine not many people go to Nellis, meaning the Boomers would only need to fire at the occasional idiot once every couple of years.
The only things that seem out of place or unrealistic are some of the buildings still standing and the Legion, and the Legion might be goofy but it's still something that some crazy guy might come up with so it's not that unreasonable.
And no, building towns around nuclear bombs cannot be rationalized.