The Depressing Future of Fallout (Youtube video)

Cooldawg86 said:
I don't even like the base game of fallout 4 , im just saying adventure modules will make it better and the game has the fan base and budget to experiment.
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Seemed like you were quite out of loop here. Do you know that the dialogue format of Fallout 4 (not just the dialogue wheel) were hard-coded to 'flow' in the form of cut-scenes? I'm gonna quote @Risewild here.

Risewild said:
I can say what I know about it, but since I don't even have FO4 installed or tried the CK yet I can't go into detail (since I can't check it out myself).
So about Fallout 4 dialogue system:
  • It isn't accessible via the CK
  • Dialog in Fallout 4 is carried out in "scenes"
  • Each "scene" have a maximum of four options
  • Each response takes you to the next section of the "scene"
  • Dialogue can no longer branch
So the dialogue system is not available from the CK, seems to be hardcoded too (can't really confirm that myself). So unless a modder finds a way of making a more fluid (go above 4 options) dialogue system and then somehow force the game to use that system instead of the game's native one (which might be impossible without the actual game code which Bethesda would never release) I doubt we can use scripts to fix the dialogue.

I can try and research the dialogue a bit more in the next days and talk to some people about it too, but for now I would have to say that it is not possible with the information and tools already available to do anything about how the dialogue works on Fallout 4.

A Note: There is theoretically a way of having more than 4 options, which is using one of those options to lead to a new set of 4 options but if that is possible it will be clunky and use up two of the options for just (Show more options) and (Show previous options), which makes the first set of dialogue options have 3 dialogue ones and the rest have only 2 of them :shrug:.
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Basically, chance are there won't be any good quests mods. There's still a chance for those, but they will be very shitty, as in base game-shitty. I mean, look at how Far Harbor was received. Quite some here admitted it was better than the base game, and you'll like it especially if you like the base game. BUT! It was also admittedly held back and restricted by the dumbass design decision made in the base game, like the dialogue wheel.

The last story DLC for Fallout 4 by Bethesda would be Nuka World, which was already disappointing even one of the most hardcore Bethesda's fans (LoneVaultWanderer or something).

Another note from me: Like Risewild said, there is theoretically a way of having more than 4 options, since iirc some modders found a way to completely get rid of the 'cut-scenes' from the dialogue conversation. But it will be clunky as hell, hence why it has been said over and over again that to 'fix' Fallout 4 means actually making a game from scratch. Even then, if they finally found a way to make good quest mods without voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, and conversation cut-scenes, there's a good chance it would be disliked by Bethesda's newer fans who came to FO4 because of those features.
 
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There is already a mod that changed the mod wheel. I dont understand why you guys think everything is permanent with beth games. Mods are base of the game so what they did for their adventure is the tip of the iceberg. Why bother be depressed about a modable game? The base adventure is obviously made for starters.
 
Cooldawg86 said:
There is already a mod that changed the mod wheel. I dont understand why you guys think everything is permanent with beth games. Mods are base of the game so what they did for their adventure is the tip of the iceberg. Why bother be depressed about a modable game? The base adventure is obviously made for starters.
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I'm assuming "mod wheel" means "dialogue wheel?"

In which case all that did was show that the actual dialogue lines were almost exactly the same, verbatim, all leading to "Yes."

So the dialogue wheel removal mod ended up showing that all dialogue choices in Fallout 4 are essentially the same, often times even exactly the same. We've already been through this several times on this forum, and this line of reasoning in defense of Fallout 4 is old.
 
Cooldawg86 said:
I love mods because it allows everyone to tell their story. Which to me is the definition of an RPG.
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You really have to stop with this stuff, regardless of your opinions on Fallout or TES or whatever. An RPG is not about how moddable a certain game is, it's about how unique a character you can create through choice in dialogue, story and stat allocation; if we go by your definition then Doom and Minecraft are two of the best RPGs ever made.
 
The mod to provide the full sentence for the dialogue wheel does not change the dialogue system. It just shows the player what options there are and usually, there is no variety.

Cooldawg86 said:
I love mods because it allows everyone to tell their story. Which to me is the definition of an RPG.
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latest

If that can count as a definition of an RPG that people subscribe to, gaming is officially dead. An RPG is about playing a role (whether it is player made like most games or already preset like the Witcher games) and progressing through a story using player input as they play their role in the game. RPGs allow the player to experience a game's world and immerse themselves in the experience through the role they are playing out whether it be through varied dialogue choices, decisions leading to alternate paths and more. There is no need for mods to tell your own story because a good RPG can already make an experience unique for players. Hence the love NMA has for Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas which had great base games for mods to add on (and even those games tend to not need mods).

A role-playing game is not about the mods (despite what Bethesda thinks) and if mods are necessary to make a game like Fallout 4 good, that means something is wrong with aforesaid game. Your attempts at defending Fallout 4 via modding potential is not working out one bit since the need for mods highlights the game's failings from the start.
 
But fallout 4 has a system to create more adventures with choices. Linear rpgs with choices are okay but having the tools to make adventures is cooler for me.

*waits for condesending comment regarding my intellegence.*
 
Cooldawg86 said:
But fallout 4 has a system to create more adventures with choices. Linear rpgs with choices are okay but having the tools to make adventures is cooler for me.

*waits for condesending comment regarding my intellegence.*
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Bait is far too obvious. I'm not stooping to the level of a typical Bethesdrone on the Bethesda forums so I'll say this: Alright then. It's your opinion. I'm not gonna begrudge you about it.

I can understand why you'd think that. I disagree with the statement that having tools to make other stuff since I think that a good game should be able to hold up without modding support (and Creation Kits simply for modding are not elixirs to heal games) but I'm not gonna force you to change your opinion. I guess you prefer having competent people possessing the tools to make good stuff in a relatively empty base game.
 
Yes because i can like and hate aspects of Black isles Fallout and nothing will change. But having the tools to an open world is like being your own DM. Video game rpgs lack a personal DM which sucks unless you have the tools to make the adventure yourself. This is my main gripe with rpg video games', there is no personal DM. Mods change that slightly.
 
Cooldawg86 said:
There is already a mod that changed the mod wheel.
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Oh did you mean that mod that gets rid of the wheel to show the full sentences of each dialogue options? Too bad it didn't change the shitty writings. And read again what Risewild said above. Until modders can find a way to work around the format Bethesda made with Fallout 4, quests and adventures mods will be very limited and shitty.

Cooldawg86 said:
I dont understand why you guys think everything is permanent with beth games. Mods are base of the game so what they did for their adventure is the tip of the iceberg. Why bother be depressed about a modable game? The base adventure is obviously made for starters.
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I'm sorry but I have to say this, you are one of the reasons why Bethesda is releasing half-assed games nowadays. New Vegas was a much more complete game than Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 combined, and it was certainly not half-assed like Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 (even though bunch of stuff gotta be cut, but that's because they only had 18 months of development cycle). Think about it, Bethesda supposedly 'tried' to release the game in a condition where it's easy to mod, yet they made it hard for modders to work upon the dialogue format, it's fucking dumb.

Please, stop with 'mods will fix it' attitude.

Cooldawg86 said:
But fallout 4 has a system to create more adventures with choices. Linear rpgs with choices are okay but having the tools to make adventures is cooler for me.
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Like I said, read again what Risewild stated above. If anything, the system actually made it hard for modders to create more adventure with choices.

Cooldawg86 said:
Yes because i can like and hate aspects of Black isles Fallout and nothing will change. But having the tools to an open world is like being your own DM. Video game rpgs lack a personal DM which sucks unless you have the tools to make the adventure yourself. This is my main gripe with rpg video games', there is no personal DM. Mods change that slightly.
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What the actual fuck? If this is an actual problem, why the fuck cRPGs exist, then? Isn't that how Computer Role-Playing Games works? Where both the GM is the game/system designers, and the DM is the level designers? This is a whole new set of arguments you've just made, congratulations mate.

Mods are cool and all, but they weren't supposed to be the main reasons to make video games.
 
Fuck it. Im happy not proving shit yall and makin doom levels for my friends and prentending im a DM. Lol enough of this. Have fun with fallout or w.e isleft of it.
 
Wonder what they'll think when they realize modders don't want to make giant quest mods and overhauls for Fallout 4 and the game is just a bunch of Workshop crap.

"Why yes I'd love to spend 1 year making a quest mod/overhaul for Fallout 4 so I can have it stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net even though it's too big for consoles"

Here's what I predict: Fallout 4 will have a second Season Pass. It will be a collection of nexus mods that Bethesda has slightly polished and is selling them as paid mod Workshop DLC.
 
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Irwin John Finster said:
Wonder what they'll think when they realize modders don't want to make giant quest mods and overhauls for Fallout 4 and the game is just a bunch of Workshop crap.

"Why yes I'd love to spend 1 year making a quest mod/overhaul for Fallout 4 so I can have it stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net even though it's too big for consoles"

Here's what I predict: Fallout 4 will have a second Season Pass. It will be a collection of nexus mods that Bethesda has slightly polished and is selling them as paid mod Workshop DLC.
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That wouldn't be too far-fetched, I mean they already sold us 20$ content as mods. It wouldn't be surprising, I mean they were the ones who raised the cost of the season pass (for the first time).

Also, can someone confirm this: apperantely Nuka-world and vault DLC are not included in season pass? If so, they are royally screwed, I don't think there is other company that has ever sold incomplete season pass.

The reason you get one, so you can have all the dlc that will come out, but it seems this is no longer a case.
 
Ediros said:
That wouldn't be too far-fetched, I mean they already sold us 20$ content as mods. It wouldn't be surprising, I mean they were the ones who raised the cost of the season pass (for the first time).

Also, can someone confirm this: apperantely Nuka-world and vault DLC are not included in season pass? If so, they are royally screwed, I don't think there is other company that has ever sold incomplete season pass.

The reason you get one, so you can have all the dlc that will come out, but it seems this is no longer a case.
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I'm pretty sure it's still included in the Season Pass.

They're going to wait a while and when enough time has passed, we'll probably see Season Pass number 2 that is purely workshop mods. Or they will simply abandon the game entirely, because it's not like they worked hard at making it a Fallout game to begin with.
 
Earth said:
I like to think nobody will mod Fallout 4 but plenty of people made mods for Skyrim and that game was fucking abysmal.
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Beth will do what Valve did. Buy game mods from modders and sell them as paid DLC.
 
Cooldawg86 said:
But fallout 4 has a system to create more adventures with choices.
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Well...

1) The voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel severely limits the ability to design quest mods.

2) A lot of Fallout fans don't even like the game enough to mod it.

3) A lot of modders are not interested in spending their time making quest mods that immediately get stolen even if they don't work on consoles.

4) This implies that Bethesda has gone from relying on modders to "fix" their games to relying on modders to actually make the game and quests.

I'm not really interested in waiting around for modders to make an entire Fallout RPG that Bethesda was supposed to make in the last 7 years. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
 
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About this....

I remember watching some PIEGUYRULEZ because why not. He eventually concluded in one of his episodes, that Spongebob will only be recognized for a potential shitty ending, and not a great beginning.

So Fallout can relate in the same way I guess.

Also, I do not watch spongebob, and PIEGUYRULEZ does reviews for shows/episodes. This was awhile ago too.
 
Well, I doubt Bethesda will go down with skyrim. They need Tes 6 of Farcryout 5, before they go down. Anyway, here are some thoughts from typical Bethe drone:


ME: Jon, a question when will you stop playing this worthless garbage simulator that has nothing to with Fallout franchise?
Seriously, I can't for the life of me understand why do you think this thing is good for whatever reason?
I would write a review but instead I will say this: KILL, LOOT , RETURN.
And one more thing, I used to respect your opinion, not anymore.

Him: Because he likes the game and it's not as bad as you put it. Don't like it? Then leave.

Me: I hate people like you, you are the reason game industry is the way it is. You accept mediocority, because it is Bethesda or other company made it. I feel sorry for you, if you are offended by a truth because that proves you are an immature kid. Don't like, don't watch it oh really? So I am supposed to do nothing when franchises I care about turn into a cheap cash grab? No wonder most AAA games are shit. They are made for idiots, by idiots.

Him: You're mad at John for playing Fallout 4. If Fallout 4 is a "garbage simulator", then why did he rank it number 1 on his top 10 games he playing in 2015. Better yet, why does the game have a lot of positive reviews as well as a GOTY reward?

Me: Hype that's why. Also Farcryout won how many awards compared to witcher 3? Not so many. Also this game sits at 80% positive on steam. New Vegas 95%. In fact Farcryout has got the worst score out of all Fallout games.

Him:Lol. Calling it Farcryout. Also, you forgot that Tactics and BOS exist. Plus, so what if Witcher 3 won more rewards than 4? Fallout 4 is still a well liked game.

Me: OH, SO YOU THINK THAT TACTICS IS BAD? Well, then tell me, have you ever played tactics? Because I can bet 95% you didn't.

Also Fallout BOS is garbage, 3 is just as bad, Farcryout 4 is even worse.

Well liked game? No, no,no you don't get it do you?

People steal mods from modders, this game has been constatly losing its' players over the entire time it was out. It started out at 400 k people, playing it now about 30k. That is a huge loss.

To top it all, most recent reviews on steam are not as positive. To top it all, Wasteland Workshop and this shit, sit at less than 50% positive, and both are considered cash grabs. Because Bethesda stole mods and sold them as DLC. You are delusional, if you think this game is good. There are plenty of most helpful reviews that are negative, why? Because this shit, turn out to be nothing more but clone of COD, minecraft and sims combined and that is an insult to those franchises

Him:
1. Yes I did play Tactics. It sucked.
2. "Farcryout" is not worse.
3. What does the mod stealing issue have to do with the overall game?
4. What you just came up with that?
5. These are not "stolen mods". Most of these don't even exist as mods.
6. This is nothing like those franchises.
7. All you're doing now is embarrassing your self. You started it by saying "I used to respect your opinion, not anymore."

Me:
Lies, lies, lies. You are an idiot or extremly biased most likely both. Those are statistics taken from steam, don't believe me check them out if you can.

5.Have you ever been to nexus and seen some of the most popular mods? There mods that have added the furniture in wasteland workshop and much more.

6.Nothing? Okay, you shoot basically everything, it is basically a call of duty with its' level up system.

Two you build settlements, contraptions, traps, cages, just like in minecraft, but somehow those two have got nothing in common.

7.The only one who is embarrasing himself is you. Did, I start a dispute, yes I did. However, it was you who turned this into an argument. And let me tell you this. I have played this game, bought season pass and never felt more cheated in my life. I have played other Fallout games, and this one has got nothing to do with the franchise.

Roleplaying, gone. You can be a good dad or sarcastic dad (and its' female equivalent).

Choice and Consequence, basically gone. Almost nothing you do matter like at all.

Plenty of lore breaking and incosistency. RULE OF COOL.

Do I have to add more? Nope, I thought.

Have a nice day, I am done dealing with you, don't want to lose anymore valuable brain cells. Hopefully, you grow some good taste in gaming at one point, which I highly doubt.

HIM:hanks for wasting my time reading stupidity. All I did was tell you not to watch the video.

My brain cells...
 
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