The Future

[TheRatKing]

Hmm. Interesting thread indeed.

Earlier this year, I went to a ecological center in Wales, and spent a couple of days there. The place was actually really cool, and made use of many renewable energy sources. They built windmills from scratch, and had some sort of water mill in a small reservoir. They used solar panels to generate electricity, and used solar heating and efficient insulation to heat the houses.

Now, most of you are probably thinking that this could never work in a real city, and you're probably right, but I led a pretty normal life there with only a few minor alterations.
Very limited electricity, I think each house had 400 watts max.
Compost toilets - yummy.
Limited water use.

In the end, we ended up not using any fossil fuels to power our day to day lives, which was pretty cool.

 

[Patton89]

lol, we aren't going to run out of aluminum and iron thats for sure. they are some of the most abundant minerals on this earth. iron actually first started to be used in weapons and every day items instead of bronze because its so abundant that its practically impossible for anyone not to have acess to it. hell if i were even determined enough with magnetic energy and a sifter i could collect iron from my own backyard.

iron is so abundant that its pretty crazy to think that it will get so diminished that its not even practical to mine it up anymore, especially with modern technologies that makes profits off "dust mining". aluminum can become an issue eventually, mostly because the cost of collecting the raw material and refining it is so astronomical in terms of energy. however its so abundant that if there truely is a need then we will have some.

Actually at the current rate of usage, the worlds ACCESSABLE iron will be depleted in a century or two, at least experts estimate so.
The amount of iron used is enourmous, so its not far fetched that it will be depleted in the future, think about it, it is used everywhere.

Aluminium is not abundant. Bauxite supply will be depleted, and i found that it will last for "some time to come". It can be replaced with copper, but it is estimated that copper will be depleted in next 100 years. So no real ways to avoid it. IT WILL HAPPEN.
It is just a matter of time.

And buckypaper requires very complex production, and the problem is, will those methods be available in future ? CAN IT BE PRODUCED ENOUGH to take care of our need of iron ?

 

[Ravager69]

I'm kinda optimistic about the future, I don't really believe there'll be some social collapse or another great economicial crisis with effects worldwide. More likely revolution and changes, because current state of things can't last forever.

As for the oil...nah, I don't think it will run out any time soon - just because we haven't found new sources, it doesn't meant they aren't there somewhere, hidden deep undergroung in the ass of nowhere, like Syberia (BTW I heard they found some new source in that region, though can't really confirm it).

I think we are only a step from creating true AI - already scientists are making neuron-based systems (though a cockroaches brain is more complex than them, it is the right direction to go). Also, lots of new technologies are developed and just because the media aren't talking about them, it doesn't mean they aren't there. Maybe some scientist team has already discovered some alternate fuel source, but need time to research it properly?

As for our societies - they change all the time. How many times elders claimed that the society is collapsing? People get fucked up in the head when they're young, but it doesn't mean it will last their whole life.

 

[Sicblades]

We could always destroy ourselves calculating the exact mass of the Higgs-Boson particle...

If it even exists.

Even then, this research can lead to so much other stuff to help(if used properly).

The world is in a dire spot. As long as people keep buying all the stuff they want, they won't even care to see that the world is ending. We're all going to die sooner or later. The sooner the better.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

The generation of electricity is not that hard. It doesn't require fossil fuels or anything else crazy. A couple of magnets, some coils of copper wire, and a prime mover, like, oh, say a river, and you have electricity. You can burn ag waste, cow patties, the whole damned rain forest, and produce electricity.

The problems are, and have always been, peak use, storage, and distribution. Because of politics and economies of scale, the US chose to have large central power stations and a massive, grossly inefficient power grid to get it where the demand was greatest. This worked great when we didn't give a rat's rectum about inconsequential things such as the environment. We simply ran about burning whatever we had that was cheap and plentiful at a rapid pace and said the hell with copper loss and other inefficiencies.

So now this is the system we have in place. We can't store the electricity we make off-peak very effectively, and our generation and transmission systems cannot handle peak demand well. So we get rolling blackouts.

The quickest solution to throw a real, useable band-aid on the problem and reduce some of the nastier side-effects of our system is to build more nuclear reactors. Sure, they have some nasty side-effects of their own, and a lot of politics and emotion associated with them, but they will work right now to achieve some of our real long term goals.

We can improve our efficiency losses with better transmission lines, and make better use of fewer resources. We could scrap the whole system in favor of community generation and distribution, solving the grid issues and providing a measure of redundancy and isolation to the system. The problem is that none of these measures can be implemented today because the technology doesn't exist to do them in a reliable, effective, and most importantly cost-efficient way.

We could certainly benefit in terms of power generation and transmission, and more effective use of resources. What would benefit us most, however, is an effective method to store and release a high volume of electricity over a short demand cycle. Batteries have lagged behind other technologies considerably. An effective storage solution makes all the rest of the 'alternative' energy methods much more practical. Unfortunately, we don't have anything like what we need today.

In the grand scheme of things, petroleum is nothing but a long chain hydrocarbon, and we are not going to run out of hydrogen or carbon any time soon. Nature has done us the courtesy of doing most of the match-making over a long period of time. However, we've used up the easiest of the ready-made supply. Sooner or later, economics and necessity will motivate us to either find a cost effective way of doing it ourselves, or moving on to some other medium to store energy.

 

[alec]

lol, we aren't going to run out of aluminum and iron thats for sure. they are some of the most abundant minerals on this earth.

You're missing the point. To exploit these we need fossil fuels. To transport these we need fossil fuels. To make the machines to process these, we need fossil fuels. To build the factories that make these machines, we need fossil fuels. And so on.

If we want to continue what we are doing on a large scale, we are bound to fossil fuels.
That's the whole point: continuing what we are doing right now. And that is simply impossible.

pfft. you do realize that things like nuclear power put coal and gas electric production to shame right?

Actually: no. Fossil fuels put nuclear power to shame. Always has, always will. I know that I will be repeating myself over and over again, but that's because you fail to grasp the point: you can't make plastics with nuclear power. You can't exploit minerals with nuclear power. You can't drive to work with nuclear power. You can't fly across the Pacific with nuclear power. You can't make furniture with nuclear power. And perhaps most important: you can't build nuclear facilities with nuclear power and you can't exploit unranium with nuclear power.

oooooooohhhhhhhhh things like running fusion generators using electro magnetic energy to keep everything around it from being fried by the heat, or controlled anti matter detonation and collection of that energy. but those things aren't really that exotic huh? btw those two examples are things scientists are exploring today.

Just listen to the sound of those things: "running fusion generators using electro magnetic energy" or "controlled anti matter detonation". Then watch an episode of Star Trek. Do you follow me?
And here I go again: the facilities in which these things are being studied and developed need fossil fuels to be build. The people who work there need fossil fuels to get to their jobs. The education they had would not have been possible without fossil fuels (university buildings, the fabrication of books, pencils, desks, computers, and so on).

Sure: nuclear energy can be made into electricity. But how are you going to take care of and repare everything if you don't have fossil fuels? You simply can't. There is no way to do it. There just isn't.

You do have a point about fresh water, though, but I didn't even touch on that subject.

All I wanted to make perfectly clear is that without fossil fuels, we are nothing. Everything we have, everything we accomplished so far, everything we are planning to do tomorrow depends on fossil fuels. Nuclear energy depends on fossil fuels. Alternative energy depends on fossil fuels. The minute you grasp that concept, you can clearly see the outcome of tomorrow's world and guess what? It ain't looking good.

In the end, we ended up not using any fossil fuels to power our day to day lives, which was pretty cool.

And then you drove home, in your fossil fueled powered car. Oh, and you were wearing clothes which were made in factories that were build thanks to fossil fuels, with machines build thanks to fossil fuels, a factory manned with people that got there thanks to fossil fuels.

Again: alternative energy is a scam. You only see the tiniest fragment, but the broad picture is hidden from you and it's the broad picture that is alarming.

 

[the_cpl]

Also some people in this thread might enjoy the episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit! called "Nukes, Hybrids and Lesbians"

"Advocates the use of nuclear power, criticizes hybrid cars and follows lesbians on a blind date."

It can be viewed on youtube in three parts.

P1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkl5fu7koGk

P2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5ZBuJMFJg&feature=related

P3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTp14TKlLGk&feature=related

edit: The first 30 seconds of the first video is worth watching even if you do not have the time to watch the full episode. I love that show

Yep, their show is cool. (I didn't like their recycling episode, though.)

About the hybrid cars.

- speed up ---> Who cares about it? That is not important, if you don't want to race with your car.
- load space ---> Wow, how much thing. Is that really true an average American family with 2 kids travel with that many stuff? Then the people must change, not the cars! Look at the European cars, the cars there little as these hybrid cars, and the families are ok with that carsize.

That hippi guy is just ignorant in the show.

 

[M-26-7]

I wouldn't mind too much if the human race was totally annihilated, as long as we didn't take the earth with us.
Don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. I think we can countinue living with such excess greed and waste for another 10, 20 years. We need to start change right now. Also I think people need to have less children.

 

[TorontoReign]

I wouldn't mind too much if the human race was totally annihilated, as long as we didn't take the earth with us.
Don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. I think we can countinue living with such excess greed and waste for another 10, 20 years. We need to start change right now. Also I think people need to have less children.

I think idiots need to have less children.

 

[the_cpl]

Also I think people need to have less children.

That is right, but what about the old people? The young generation pay their pension. That can be a big problem, if there are less young workers then retireds. No more welfare, no more pension, then.

But if the population keep growing, then the food problem is coming. There is no perfect answer.

 

[TheRatKing]

Couldn't you have an electric car, powered by nuclear energy? If the US switches to nuclear power, I am sure a lot of oil powered things will probably be replaced by electric alternatives.

 

[alec]

Couldn't you have an electric car, powered by nuclear energy? If the US switches to nuclear power, I am sure a lot of oil powered things will probably be replaced by electric alternatives.

Why yes, you could!

Meet the Ford Nucleon, the nuclear powered car. Researched in the fifties.



Why didn't they make them? Maybe because the drivers would have gotten cancer within the year? Maybe because they foresaw things like Al Qaeda and mean people who would do completely different stuff with their mini nuclear engines?

It's not an option. It's an illusion. It will never happen. Trust me.

 

[M-26-7]

Couldn't you have an electric car, powered by nuclear energy? If the US switches to nuclear power, I am sure a lot of oil powered things will probably be replaced by electric alternatives.

Why yes, you could!

Meet the Ford Nucleon, the nuclear powered car. Researched in the fifties.



Why didn't they make them? Maybe because the drivers would have gotten cancer within the year? Maybe because they foresaw things like Al Qaeda and mean people who would do completely different stuff with their mini nuclear engines?

It's not an option. It's an illusion. It will never happen. Trust me.

Actually he's just saying that there would be more electric cars. Chill bra

 

[ceacar99]

um, first lets drive a point home. aluminum is THE MOST abundant metal in the earth's crust. saying that will run out any time soon is well.... foolish. iron maybe, MAYBE in a few centuries if we continue to grow. though that itself is doubtful....

now on with the quotes...

Actually: no. Fossil fuels put nuclear power to shame. Always has, always will. I know that I will be repeating myself over and over again, but that's because you fail to grasp the point: you can't make plastics with nuclear power. You can't exploit minerals with nuclear power. You can't drive to work with nuclear power. You can't fly across the Pacific with nuclear power. You can't make furniture with nuclear power. And perhaps most important: you can't build nuclear facilities with nuclear power and you can't exploit unranium with nuclear power.

um, i did say plastics were going down the drain with fossil fuels. but you ignore the fact that you CAN exploit minerals with atomic power, YOU CAN drive to work on nuclear power, you CAN make furniture with nuclear power. what kind of crack are you smoking? electricity is the most versatile energy we have available and it can be used to do just about ANYTHING we want, the fundamental issues are storage of large quantities for long periods of time.

your an idiot. modern manufacturing is powered by electricity, modern services are powered by electricity, and pretty much everything except transportation is powered by electricity.

for example you do realize that most shaft mining equipment is air powered right? the machinery that pumps the air on the surface could be run either by fuels or electricity, but nope you dont pay attention to that. now as i said the ONLY area that electricity has not been proven as practical is transportation devices like cars or even a tractor. its because it takes so long to charge up the energy to run those devices. HOWEVER.....

we talk about hydrogen fuel for vehicles these days but with the current energy costs and so on for electricity its utterly inpractical. it cost WAY too much to produce hydrogen in terms of energy. either you get it as a byproduct in the oil business or you split water. eventually oil runs out right? so what you have to do is split damn water, and that requires a shit load of energy. however if your determined to go down that road and use hydrogen as fuel instead of biodiesel from algea then ATOMIC POWER can provide. really then its the only thing that can produce on the scale to actually make enough hydrogen for all the combustion systems that run our world.

All I wanted to make perfectly clear is that without fossil fuels, we are nothing. Everything we have, everything we accomplished so far, everything we are planning to do tomorrow depends on fossil fuels. Nuclear energy depends on fossil fuels. Alternative energy depends on fossil fuels. The minute you grasp that concept, you can clearly see the outcome of tomorrow's world and guess what? It ain't looking good.

nuclear energy doesnt need fossil fuels......

let me explain something. the ONLY reason why we really need petrolium is because without it the chemical industry would practically not exist. the reason why resources like biodiesel and so on are so sought after is that the hope in it is to replace the chemical industry's need for petrol. THAT is the real block. however, we are making great progress at finding alternate routes to get the sources for chemicals we need WITHOUT oil. its just time that is required.....

your whole arguement isnt about the chemical industry however. its about "oh we need fossil fuels to run everything". you even said our clothes were built in a factory using fossil fuels but thats horribly wrong. the factory runs on electricity, and you dont know if i went to work in a electric car/scooter or a hydrogen powered one that i fuel by running up my electric bill. if you had based your arguements about the chemical industry then you'd have ground to stand on but really all you are saying is that "we need fossil combustion to survive" when thats pretty downright moronic....

 

[Drakehash]

Dont worry guys, i invent a machine that can extract energy from sand.

I thing is not the oil the problem, the problem will be the overpopulation.

 

[maximaz]

We already have a crap load of alternative sources of energy. The problem is that they aren't cost effective enough. There will probably be a complete transition before our current reserves run out. It might not be smooth but there will be one.
I do have a feeling something bad is coming in the future. I don't know why.

 

[Snackpack]

I think every generation thinks it's the end times.

I'm an optimistic fatalist. We may destroy the earth's ability to support human life, but never all life. If that's the case sentient beings may once again evolve from microbes. Hell, maybe it's already happened a few times.

Personally, I fucking love the apocalypse and can't wait to make armor out of leather scraps and old tires.

 

[Scowl]

Personally, I fucking love the apocalypse and can't wait to make armor out of leather scraps and old tires.

As much as I love the Mad Max films, I don't think that being Mad Max would be a lot of fun.

 

[alec]

I'm sure that all the world's problems will soon be solved with nuclear energy. Oh, and with aluminium, which is the most abundant metal on the planet.

 

[Skynet 2.0]

It does seem like most of the problems we are facing are a direct result of overpopulation. Fossil fuels will run out because we're using them up at an incredible rate. We haven't made enough progress with alternative energy sources because its too difficult to get so many people to change their ways. Things are starting to look more and more like Fallout. It's not too difficult to imagine that, after it takes too much energy to extract fossil fuels to be effective, some nations would try to attack the countries who still have resources in a desperate attempt to save their dying economies.