The Guns and Ammo Thread

[WillisPDunlevey]

Yep. Got built into this:

I ended up with this one through a common innovation cycle in my country's firearms industry. It's a DDLES lower, and it represented a real improvement over existing 9mm lowers a couple years back. A lot of demand, a limited supply. The manufacturer attempted to expand to meet demand, meanwhile making wild promises that the market simply could not support. Suddenly, tens of thousands of people were screaming to give DDLES their money. So DDLES took it. Soon they were using new order money to subsidize their attempt to fulfill their older promises, all while getting deeper and deeper in a production hole. Then came the angry letters, scores of complaints, state Attorneys General, civil and criminal actions, and bankruptcy. I was one of a very lucky few to get even half of what I had ordered after the creditors lined up, so even though I wasn't wild about the Zombie lower, I took it and tried to be grateful.

Its nice to see that one of them actually made it into a customers hands and got built!

 

[GonZo_626]

They are heavily regulated in our country, although there is legislation to take them out of our NFA Registry currently pending. They certainly don't make things silent. The quietest suppressed gun I own is a 77/44, and it is very, very quiet, but it comes with a host of issues of it's own.

There have been a lot of gimmick rounds over the years, Black Talons being the 'cop killer bullets' of the 1990s, and the G2 RIP being the internet sensation of 2014. None of them offer anything better then a well designed hollow point bullet from Hornaday, Winchester, etc...

Frangible ammo is a different entity, and not necessarily a gimmick. It's designed to shatter when it hits something harder then flesh. The idea is that it will go through people, but not through walls. This allows law enforcement to use larger rifle rounds and higher-powered ammunition in places where they would have to be really conscious of over-penetration, like apartment buildings. Some ranges also require it because it is kinder on their backstops. It is definitely a niche product, but it has it's uses.

"Heavily regulated" is still better than none at all. I know as I deal with the heavy regulation already for my 1911, and AR-15. Both are restricted with magazine caps and registered. Plus due to the whole restricted part I get a criminal record check done against me every 24hrs. Fun times. About the only thing we have better in Canada is for short barrel shotguns, no tax stamp!
Well I guess we are better then California as I would not want to deal with a fixed mag or bullet button on my AR.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

Here is my X-Mas gun- Vector V53 (HK-53 clone). I submitted my form 1 a couple of days after I got it home.
It will have a Choate side folder in about 5 months (more or less).

I also have a .308 version on the way and will get the same treatment (HK51 SBR)

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

This is my Arsenal Strike one. I ordered the super speed version (cut out slide and porting, match trigger, multi spring recoil assembly and "most aggressive stippling available")

Strike one next to a 1860 army conversion I did (Used a 1851 navy grip). Black powder converted to .45LC

Sten collection- not sure if I ever posted that before.

Bad phone pic of the 1860 conversion. This has a 5.5" barrel. I also have a 3" and 7.5" barrel that can be swapped out in about 30 seconds.

My wife got one of these in .357 because a friend gave her 1500rds of misc .38 special ammo that was "surrendered/abandoned" at his gun shop and they did not want to sell it.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

Congratulations on your V53. I think they are really nice guns. MP5 form-factor with a lot more reach. I was pricing out available sear packs, which are around $28K at the moment, and realizing this is probably not the year. That said, if I ever do pick one up, I will definitely want a 53 as a host.

I hope you are right, but I think you are ambitious on the stamp time-frame. I've had a Form 1 pending since May, and two cans in the pipeline since July and August. Perhaps when they get over the uptick from everyone trying to get in before 41F in July, they will pick up the pace a little.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

Congratulations on your V53. I think they are really nice guns. MP5 form-factor with a lot more reach. I was pricing out available sear packs, which are around $28K at the moment, and realizing this is probably not the year. That said, if I ever do pick one up, I will definitely want a 53 as a host.

I hope you are right, but I think you are ambitious on the stamp time-frame. I've had a Form 1 pending since May, and two cans in the pipeline since July and August. Perhaps when they get over the uptick from everyone trying to get in before 41F in July, they will pick up the pace a little.

I probably am being a bit ambitious on time- hoping for 6 months though.

If you are looking for a sear pack, there is/was one on GB - post sample but the seller is getting rid of their license so any SOT can buy it as if it was a pre sample. ~1K IIRC.

Franklin armoury is going to have a H&K binary trigger pack out this year for ~$450 or so the SHOT show rumor mill says.

 

[SuAside]

Here is my X-Mas gun- Vector V53 (HK-53 clone). I submitted my form 1 a couple of days after I got it home.

I've always been on the fence for them. I mean, for me they are the original SWAT carbine.
But the recoil impulse is kinda weird and the lack of automatic BHO kinda irks me.

It will have a Choate side folder in about 5 months (more or less).

Why not the collapsible stock though? Sidefolders don't do the HK53 look justice imo.

I also have a .308 version on the way and will get the same treatment (HK51 SBR)

Well, that's one way to get rid of your arm hair.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

I don't like the feel of the collapsible stocks on my cheek (same as underfolding AK stocks).
I will make an exception for the 9mm MP-40 copy once the price comes down (not paying bidding war prices on gunbroker)

The 5.56 and 7.62 versions of the MP-5 will be pretty fun to shoot. They were each much less than the 9mm version (go figure).
I got the 5.56 for $1600 and the 7.62 version for $1275.
I will probably end up picking up a Turkish 9mm at some point so i have a cheap version to shoot.

 

[TorontoReign]

That 1860 is nice @WillisPDunlevey and I agree with collapsible stocks. I don't care much for them. The ones I have used don't feel the same. I guess I like more stability.

 

[SuAside]

If you care about comfort, you don't get a HK53 or HK51 though.

 

[TorontoReign]

If you care about comfort, you don't get a HK53 or HK51 though.

Hell I want one of those just to have one.

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

I am ok with the recoil, I just dont like the feel of the HK telescoping stocks or AK underfolders.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

I am heading out to work for the next month or so, so I did a little maintenance for storage yesterday on some of my harder-used pistols that hadn't had a cleaning in a while.

I didn't have the time or inclination to do a full cleaning on any of them, so they just get a Boresnake through the barrel, a few drops of oil on the frame rails and barrel hood, and a wipe-down of the exterior with RIG, which is a light preservative grease.

I did have to clean the hell out of my 77/44, because it is very sensitive to being dirty, and chunks of carbon and lead were literally dropping out of the magazine and barrel.
This is the dirtiest gun I own, and will foul itself within 100 rounds if you aren't careful. It's also a real pain to clean. I ended up corking it and filling it with MPro7 and letting it soak overnight.

Clean MPro on the left, MPro after the 77/44 on the right. It took 40 patches to finally get all the crap out of the ported barrel.

 

[MutantScalper]

In broad sweeping strokes, my opinion of battle rifles is this:
FAL is great for general issue.
G3 is good to dress up (more modular), and makes a decent DMR.
M14 is a range queen which can be accurized but any heavy use will be bad for it.

Of course, nowadays they are all horrendously outdated compared to the SCAR and various AR15/AR10 offshoots.

You really think M14 and the "M-family" is bad for, say, forest, desert or jungle? We've all heard how M-16 was inferior to AK-47 but I always thought that M-14 was pretty rugged. I think that some US forces still use it for sniper and breaching tasks due to the bigger round.

 

[SuAside]

You really think M14 and the "M-family" is bad for, say, forest, desert or jungle?

If you bed your action on an M14 to increase its accuracy, you will likely have to re-bed if you knock it into a tree or drop it on the ground.
As for reliability? Well, the M14 does not like mud. Though I'm not sure what effect fine sand has.

We've all heard how M-16 was inferior to AK-47 but I always thought that M-14 was pretty rugged. I think that some US forces still use it for sniper and breaching tasks due to the bigger round.

The M14 is nowhere near as rugged as an AR15 or an AKM.

The AKM's reputation comes from the fact it can be abused (no proper maintenance) and it will still keep firing. Any major failure of an AKM can usually be resolved with a hammer, a block of wood and a cleaning rod.
However, the AKM has large openings in the receiver, which means mud etc can more readily get into it than for some other guns. If that happens, the gun is by no means magical and will start getting issues.

The AR15's advantage is that the receiver is closed down and that it has a very simple action. This means that fairly little debris gets into the gun as long as you carry it with the dust cover closed & the charging handle stowed. You do need to maintain it properly and lube it is directed.
However, the AR15 itself is rather weak to abuse. It's not too hard to warp a stock extension or handguard, resulting in making the gun useless.

So in broad generalizing terms, you can put an AR15 through a bath of mud, and it'll be far more likely to continue to fire reliably than an AKM. But if you drive over both with a jeep, your AR15 is far more likely to be ruined than an AK. Most likely, the AK still fires fine and if it's a bit warped you can knock it back into shape (obviously not a good thing for accuracy or long term durability, but it'll likely work).

The M14 does not do well at any of this.
None of this should keep you from owning an M14 if you like that type of weapon. You'll be using it at the range, not in a bath of mud with cars driving over it.

 

[MutantScalper]

If you bed your action on an M14 to increase its accuracy, you will likely have to re-bed if you knock it into a tree or drop it on the ground.

What if it's a 'military' or rugged civilian use sporterized M14 that has a rugged stock etc. Will it still be fragile and prone to jamming?

I know in the Vietnam war they used M14 and that type of rifles as battle rifles and also in sniper roles.

 

[TheGM]

As for reliability? Well, the M14 does not like mud.

Nothing likes mud getting inside.

So in broad generalizing terms, you can put an AR15 through a bath of mud, and it'll be far more likely to continue to fire reliably than an AKM. But if you drive over both with a jeep, your AR15 is far more likely to be ruined than an AK.

I know I've seen this happen and the AR-15 worked fine. As always it depends on the quality of the gun if it going to survive something like that.

 

[Hassknecht]

Totally independent test showing how the M4 blows up and the HK416 does not after being submerged in water:

Also included, DAS BOOT

 

[SuAside]

What if it's a 'military' or rugged civilian use sporterized M14 that has a rugged stock etc. Will it still be fragile and prone to jamming?

I am not familiar enough with modern stocks for the M14 to say anything about that. I suppose a JAE-100 or EBR might be less prone to bedding issues than the original wood and polymer stocks.
A good stock will not keep your rifle from jamming when exposed to extreme conditions though.

I know in the Vietnam war they used M14 and that type of rifles as battle rifles and also in sniper roles.

M14 designated marksman rifles are still in use today.
But I'd suspect every designated marksman would prefer being handed a SCAR mk17 (or SSR) or HK417.
But that shouldn't keep you from owning an M14 as a civilian.

Nothing likes mud getting inside.

True, but some guns are especially prone to issues due to their design.

I know I've seen this happen and the AR-15 worked fine. As always it depends on the quality of the gun if it going to survive something like that.

As said explicitly, I was speaking in general terms. Sample size of one is not what I was going for.

Totally independent test showing how the M4 blows up and the HK416 does not after being submerged in water:

That's a bad reason to prefer the HK416 over the M4 though. Everyone who handles an M4 knows not to shoot with water in the barrel. You cant the rifle downwards to let it drain as you come up. This allows sufficient water to drain to start shooting.
(obviously not a good weapon for a combat diver)

 

[WillisPDunlevey]

I thought I would share these- a guy I know who works at a gunshop likes fallout and had some old non collectable guns come in and made these from them. He is thinking making/modding these for sale.
sfcmark@sbcglobal.net

Here is his write up:
Raider Arms #0001 Double Barrel 12 Gauge Fully functional Shotgun. All minimum length requirements have been met. (18-½” Barrel Length, 35” Overall Length). Features: - Hand forged Bayonet from a Railroad Spike (removable) - Rubber Tire Recoil Pad - Brass Cases used for Hammer Extensions - Laser AND Flashlight mounted on top of barrels - Kill Tally Marks added for character

Raider Arms 0002 Single Shot Break Action 12 Gauge Shotgun. All minimum length requirements have been met. (18-½” Barrel, 34” Overall length) Features: -Rubber Tire Recoil Pad -Steel chain for sling ,(Removable and can be used as a weapon itself). -Extra Round storage cut into Butt Stock. - Hose Clamp with Nails Near Muzzle (For hand-to-hand combat!) -Copper Wire added for “Grip” around Pistol Grip area -Grooves cut into Forend Stock for Grip -”MOM” in a Heart added for Character